Do you guys think a 160 lb Dumbbell Curl is impressive?

[jimbuick]

I see it as how you keep the push towards the lift, it depends mainly on CNS adaptation and carryovers from other lifts (IE Floor Press) and also with the direct assistance work.

For me doing floor press and/or heavy CGBP is what helps the top portion of the lift, IMO it is a mix of getting used to "keep pushing" through the lift (so more motor coordination and CNS involvement) and also strength from the assisting muscles that are directly engaged in the lift.

CGBP and Floor Press place more stress on the triceps than other pressing motions. (At least this is my understanding)

Which I thought was the point of adding them into a program to strengthen the triceps for the lockout of the bench press.

 

[jimbuick]

That's why I said the BB'ing bench, which is not about 1RM. Now, the PL'ing bench is very much about the strength of the triceps, but not the BB'ing version.

I missed that.

 

[Celorza]

I'm still not sure if you even lift weights or just enjoy acting like a clown.

Here is a link to an article by Jim Wendler:

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/powerlifting-articles/5-ways-to-increase-your-bench-press/

Laugh away, Celorza. I'll take Wendlers word over your skepticism myself.

Anyhow, I'll do some justice to Wendler and why he might've said this...

Jim Wendler trains with the mentality of "Training like a Bodybuilder" NOT in a bad sad way, but meaning he encourages people to Keep Balance, and not to only focus on triceps and chest for the bench (example) but to focus on overall becoming stronger...

He himself pointed out in the number one point there to gain weight right? Well I presume his intent for wanting people to have bigger biceps is the fact that it keeps "balance" in the upper arm NOT AS STABILIZING balance you bloody nincompoop , but as "balance" in growth and development of the arm...alas more weight will mean better leverages.

I do NOT agree with it, but I guess I know where he is coming from with that point...(Read the 5/3/1 book if you wanna know what I mean by his quote of "Train like a bodybuilder")

 

[Celorza]

CGBP and Floor Press place more stress on the triceps than other pressing motions. (At least this is my understanding)

Which I thought was the point of adding them into a program to strengthen the triceps for the lockout of the bench press.

I was agreeing with you lol hence why I mentioned those 2 and also the way that CNS and motor activation and fiber recruitment co-relate Jimbo.

 

[Wrivest]

Feisty thread! I'm rather upset I actually watched that video...I want that 10 seconds on my life back

 

[TexasGuy]

I will justify your self admitted stance as a "neophyte" justifying Wendler with a laugh.

And yeah, focusing on becoming stronger overall... incorporating bicep training to do so (wouldn't need to if it didn't have an effect on overall strength)... the whole entire discussion in this thread... I don't know bro. I think this thread is done. You have a powerlifting demi-god advocating direct bicep training and bodybuilders don't need to be sold.

Anyhow, I'll do some justice to Wendler and why he might've said this...

Jim Wendler trains with the mentality of "Training like a Bodybuilder" NOT in a bad sad way, but meaning he encourages people to Keep Balance, and not to only focus on triceps and chest for the bench (example) but to focus on overall becoming stronger...

He himself pointed out in the number one point there to gain weight right? Well I presume his intent for wanting people to have bigger biceps is the fact that it keeps "balance" in the upper arm NOT AS STABILIZING balance you bloody nincompoop , but as "balance" in growth and development of the arm...alas more weight will mean better leverages.

I do NOT agree with it, but I guess I know where he is coming from with that point...(Read the 5/3/1 book if you wanna know what I mean by his quote of "Train like a bodybuilder")

 

[Celorza]

I will justify your self admitted stance as a "neophyte" justifying Wendler with a laugh.

And yeah, focusing on becoming stronger overall... incorporating bicep training to do so (wouldn't need to if it didn't have an effect on overall strength)... the whole entire discussion in this thread... I don't know bro. I think this thread is done. You have a powerlifting demi-god advocating direct bicep training and bodybuilders don't need to be sold.

You just don't know when to shut up haha. On second thought, you also don't know when to pick up a book in Logic (at least Aristotelean logic haha) to be able to form a proper complete argument.

Keep at it Fridge Head !

 

[OnionKnight]

can you guys just fukin agree that the video was pointless? this dude is probly laughing at the argument he started

 

[TexasGuy]

You just don't know when to shut up haha. On second thought, you also don't know when to pick up a book in Logic (at least Aristotelean logic haha) to be able to form a proper complete argument.

Keep at it Fridge Head !

Alright then Chestcrack.

One thing I learned in this thread is that Celorza knows more than Wendler! :arms:

In defense of training the biceps though, we have an obvious answer. From rows to bench press.

 

[TexasGuy]

Sorry chump, you stepped in MY ground...PL bench really is built by the following:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_periodization_bible_part_ii;jsessionid=2E8B35D0820A6DD90EE43E68C0F9F3D3-mcd01.hydra

I don't see NO biceps there, and I will take Dave Tate's word over Jim Wendler's any day of the month.

Thanks.

Dave Tate sanctioned Jim Wendler by publishing the article on his website. Of course biceps aren't the primary muscle group for the bench press, that isn't the argument. At all.

You are a complete fool if you don't believe bicep training isn't beneficial to strength gains in a variety of lifts. Let's not get distracted. You are simply wrong. I don't expect you to admit it, but the thread really is over.

 

[napalm]

Peanut butter

Sent from my iPhone using Am.com

 

[Rodja]

So, Wendler's one article about bicep training automatically proves the efficacy? What's funny is that there have been countless articles about strength training and how to increase one's total and that is the only one I've ever seen that directly extolls biceps (not to say the others demonize it). There's also a large element of marketing about this as Wendler is now a one-man business. Rewriting PL info that has been repeated for decades will not make you stand out; making an outside the box statement will.

At the time, Wendler worked for EFS and most likely had free reign to post whatever he would like. Tate also is not the editor for EFS and hasn't been so for some time now.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I like to do curls.

 

[MidwestBeast]

And trapp mann does bumbell curls; surely he can't be wrong.

 

[T-AD]

 

[EatMoar]

Pretty impressive like curling on the squat rack...

 

[MidwestBeast]

Pretty impressive like curling on the squat rack...

My gym only has 3 barbells in the entire place...I hate it so much. lol

 

[OnionKnight]

My gym only has 3 barbells in the entire place...I hate it so much. lol

planet fitness?

oh wait, they dont have any barbells. just smith machines lawl

 

[MidwestBeast]

planet fitness?

oh wait, they dont have any barbells. just smith machines lawl

No chance. It's an Anytime Fitness and it has everything I need and is dirt cheap, so it just works. I'm not a fan of a number of the things, but I've been there for 3 years so I just tolerate it until I move.

And we just got a PF in town and I ripped up the mail I got from them. I wanted to go there just to deadlift and get kicked out. lol

 

[p5sky]

Curls have no value in life IMO...you do not compete in any federation for a bicep curl...and sorry but I see no need to build a huge bicep curl number. I do think some people do need and crave the growth in the bicep...that is to each his own...no idea why they need it or want it so much (seeing how it is almost useless in any major lift...) but for posing competitions and aesthetic self-love...well I guess you don't even need that much weight (or cheat in form) to achieve it.

Thanks for your opinion . . . now stop arguing as if only YOUR point of view is valid. Not everyone is a powerlifter, so not everyone cares about your opinion.

I am not a powerlifter so I g for aesthetics, I want a balanced upper arm. I see guys at the gym who ONLY work their bicep and ignore the tricep, it looks ridiculous aesthetically.

So to ME you POV is invalid, the curl IS important TO ME . . . . so now you can STFU

 

[p5sky]

Peanut butter

Sent from my iPhone using Am.com

I've been using Sunflower Butter as well

 

[Young Gotti]

Thanks for your opinion . . . now stop arguing as if only YOUR point of view is valid. Not everyone is a powerlifter, so not everyone cares about your opinion.

I am not a powerlifter so I g for aesthetics, I want a balanced upper arm. I see guys at the gym who ONLY work their bicep and ignore the tricep, it looks ridiculous aesthetically.

So to ME you POV is invalid, the curl IS important TO ME . . . . so now you can STFU

agreed....some of us could care less about 1rm maxes and are over 20 years old so what muscles are used in what sport means nothing

tell this guy biceps aren't needed...i'm sure his sandow's will say otherwise

 

[Celorza]

I see Notifications that Paul has quoted me, have seen them for a while yet I can't see the messages...

Mr. Triathlon teacher does know I have him on ignore right?

 

[mattrag]

Thanks for your opinion . . . now stop arguing as if only YOUR point of view is valid. Not everyone is a powerlifter, so not everyone cares about your opinion.

I am not a powerlifter so I g for aesthetics, I want a balanced upper arm. I see guys at the gym who ONLY work their bicep and ignore the tricep, it looks ridiculous aesthetically.

So to ME you POV is invalid, the curl IS important TO ME . . . . so now you can STFU

I would have to agree. Seeing the curl ain't gonna hurt no one, id say if you wanna do it curl all you like. Who doesn't like bigger upper arms? Well, I guess if ya jealous....

 

[OnionKnight]

man arny was one sexy mutherfuker back in his rime

 

[p5sky]

I see Notifications that Paul has quoted me, have seen them for a while yet I can't see the messages...

Mr. Triathlon teacher does know I have him on ignore right?

Why is this guy so arrogant? Does he have an inferiority complex?

 

[mattrag]

Why is this guy so arrogant? Does he have an inferiority complex?

He's jealous.

 

[howwedo107]

I need cliffs here lol so will 21s bring up my bench up 50lbs like I read on bb.com?

 

[Sean1332]

I need cliffs here lol so will 21s bring up my bench up 50lbs like I read on bb.com?

depends, wide or narrow grip!

 

[p5sky]

I need cliffs here lol so will 21s bring up my bench up 50lbs like I read on bb.com?

Cliffs: Celorza is a douche who believes only his opinion is valid, if you have a different viewpoint then he will belittle you.

 

[Danb2285]

Why is this guy so arrogant? Does he have an inferiority complex?

I'm assuming your Paul? Lol all I know is I PERSONALLY think there is a direct correlation with rows and pulls and biceps. The stronger my bi's are the better my seated rows, pull downs and pull ups are.

 

[Danb2285]

Why is it arrogant to defend ones ground in debate. At least he does not kowtow like many...

I don't think the fact he defends his ground is arrogant but the way he comes across making it sound like his opinion is right yours is wrong and your an idiot if you don't agree with him shows arrogance.

 

[boogerboy]

Why is it arrogant to defend ones ground in debate. At least he does not kowtow like many...

YOU ARE WRONG

 

[Piston Honda]

I think I finally got what the "160 lb dumbbell" refers to in this thread. Very sneaky insult.

 

[Danb2285]

I think I finally got what the "160 lb dumbbell" refers to in this thread. Very sneaky insult.

Enlighten please lol

 

[jimbuick]

I don't think the fact he defends his ground is arrogant but the way he comes across making it sound like his opinion is right yours is wrong and your an idiot if you don't agree with him shows arrogance.

Strong this.

It isn't the opinion or the knowledge (perceived or legitimate). Its the presentation of those things that most people have an issue with.

Take Jason for example, ZiR.Red, he is easily the most dedicated person on this board but he doesn't come off as a know it all when he talks to people. (Not to say that celly always does that but it does happen)

 

[OnionKnight]

i cant believe this fukin thread is still going. do mods neg each other?

 

[boogerboy]

Wow, check out Cel's useless bicep. Why does he flex this useless muscle? Better question: Why does he even train this worthless muscle? Maybe that muscle is bigger than his brain.

 

[boogerboy]

When it is one man taking on the whole thread I would say it show more guts than arrogance

it doesn't take guts to sit behind the internets and type . . . I can tell you anything I want and it won't make a difference because you don't know me or where to find me. Don't try to look for me, my avi is not really me.

 

[jimbuick]

When it is one man taking on the whole thread I would say it show more guts than arrogance

Bro if you read it was him and me.

Then him and Texas (they have prior issues)

Along with Rodja and Jason providing the answers to any questions along the way.

That is in no way 1 vs the world (or the thread in this instance)

 

[TexasGuy]

So, Wendler's one article about bicep training automatically proves the efficacy? What's funny is that there have been countless articles about strength training and how to increase one's total and that is the only one I've ever seen that directly extolls biceps (not to say the others demonize it). There's also a large element of marketing about this as Wendler is now a one-man business. Rewriting PL info that has been repeated for decades will not make you stand out; making an outside the box statement will.

At the time, Wendler worked for EFS and most likely had free reign to post whatever he would like. Tate also is not the editor for EFS and hasn't been so for some time now.

There have been multiple discussion points regarding biceps training from athletic prowress to injury prevention and performance enhancement.

When the conversation tilted to subjective opinions over the efficacy of biceps training enhancing various lifts, a world renowned powerlifting coaches opinion was posted. Don't get sideways.

The argument is whether biceps training correlates to performance and it does. You can argue how much so if you'd like but that would be a different conversation. And actually, the argument is whether or not curling 160 pounds is impressive. And a legit 160 lb dumbell curl would be. That's some heavy ass weight considering the lift.

 

[Danb2285]

When it is one man taking on the whole thread I would say it shows more guts than arrogance

He actually has 2 of the most knowledgeable people on AM on his side and no one is saying they're acting arrogant?.....because they don't come off that way

 

[p5sky]

Why is it arrogant to defend ones ground in debate. At least he does not kowtow like many...

Did you read what I said earlier? Cel comes across as if his way is the only correct way, yet that is NOT true. He is a powerlifter so his needs will be different for someone such as a bodybuilder or a performance athlete.

Sure, it may be true that bicep strength is not of significant importance in his sport, but for those of us pursuing other endeavors the bicep may be important. Therefore his POV is inaccurate to others, yet he will insult them for their opinion. THAT is arrogance.

 

[Young Gotti]

He actually has 2 of the most knowledgeable people on AM on his side and no one is saying they're acting arrogant?.....because they don't come off that way

umm....

 

[jimbuick]

Do we all have to have cookie cutter personalities, if so the world would be a boring place...

It's not a cookie cutter personality its just a matter of respect.

He doesn't treat others with respect (sometimes) which is why some people don't get along with him here.

 

[boogerboy]

Do we all have to have cookie cutter personalities, if so the world would be a boring place...

ok, since you put it that way then I can say THIS:

Celorza, thanks for being you. Without you AM would be boring. The world is a more interesting place with douchebags, that is true.

 

[Montego1]

Yeah a 160lb curl would be impressive. Crossfit powerlifter guy will say no because that's not how they train BRO. And crossfit guy is all knowing.

 

[MidwestBeast]

I'm so confused. I'm going back and forth between laughing and then having my brain hurt from reading this.

And in an attempt to contribute to this thread (I don't know that it's even worthwhile, but whatever): I don't see any reason in attempting to make each muscle group as strong as it can be. As with most anything, it ultimately depends on your goals and strength vs. aesthetics will differ, but also have some overlap (again, like a lot of things). I like to have both, but at the end of the day, I'd train more for aesthetics than for strength. That's just my personal preference. But biceps don't need a ton of direct work anyway as long as you're doing the compound lifts you should be. I like to add in a light day of doing isolation work on bis and tris, but that's just the way I like to do it.

 

[MidwestBeast]

Oh Bravo...Now we resort to name calling? I think my 5 year old nephew may want in

Just FYI, I don't think he can join, given his age and the content of this forum.

However, I wouldn't peg a 5 year-old for browsing forums, either. Then again, kids are using technology at younger and younger ages...creepy stuff.

 

[Ballesteri]

Nice sig. man ^ like that