Dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden...

[B5150]

How conveinient...so why is it that people attribute surviving disasters/accidents to god?

Why do religious people seem to be afraid of death if the "afterlife" is so great?
Why keep Terri Shiavo alive so long if it's better in heaven?

You keep confusing religious people with people who live by faith. Big difference!

God has no desire for our religiousness but rather our faithfulness. There is confusion, very obviously, about what religious people believe is serving God and what faithful people know is serving God. Get the facts straight, it's in the manual: http://www.biblelookup.com/cgi-bin/pbible.pl?maxhits=10&mode=context&corpus=nt&from=&to=&step=5&searchstring=hypocrites&version=asv&searchtype=find&boolop=exact&subs=+Next++>

14. Mar 7:6
And he said unto them, Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, But their heart is far from me.

15. Luk 12:56
Ye hypocrites, ye know how to interpret the face of the earth and the heaven; but how is it that ye know not how to interpret this time?

 

[Squeaks4ver]

people are misinformed and that is why they credit things to god when god really has nothing to do with it.

i don't know of many people that are religious that think the after life is bad unless they think the after life is sectioned off for good, bad, not so good, and not so bad people. It depends on the religion. Catholics have guilt so they don't want to, born again welcome but only after a life of worth, muslims want to blow themselves up and worship death more than life and long for death..the reality is that we are light beings inside flesh. it doesn't matter at the end of the day who we are or what we do, we will always be us even after the body falls.

but the human animal has a strong will to live and it does everything it can to maintain like any other animal would. the Shivo case is a political matter which has nothing to do with our divinity

 

[B5150]

I agree with some of that but

it doesn't matter at the end of the day who we are or what we do,

If we are born again, we are new creations. We are priests, and warriors and servants and witnesses. We are not who we once were but are ministers of the word.

It does matter what we do.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."

Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'

And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets."

Edit: Of course this assumes that you believe that the Bible is the word of God

 

[EESCHMan]

Are the Greeks in hell since they didn't believe in A god?

 

[EESCHMan]

Makes me think if something a comedian said about the pope.

After John Paul's assination attempt, they had him riding around in the pope-mobile, bullet-proof glass and all. The comedian said, "if the pope's affraid to die, what's that mean for the rest of us"!! Kinda funny, but makes you think too!

Someone else said something (regarding the assassination attempt) to the effect of...

"<so & so> said that the hand of god deflected the bullet...

Why didn't god just make the bullet TOTALLY MISS?!!!"

 

[CRUNCH]

Someone else said something (regarding the assassination attempt) to the effect of...

"<so & so> said that the hand of god deflected the bullet...

Why didn't god just make the bullet TOTALLY MISS?!!!"

And along similar lines...when god decides to call the pope to heaven, will it matter that he has a bullet-proof car? Is all that protection/security for the pope necessary??

 

[DmitryWI]

And along similar lines...when god decides to call the pope to heaven, will it matter that he has a bullet-proof car? Is all that protection/security for the pope necessary??

If I'm not afraid to die, should I stop wearing seatbelt?

 

[CRUNCH]

Well...yes, probably. God's going to take you when he wants, won't he? Shouldn't matter to take any precautions.

 

[DmitryWI]

Well...yes, probably. God's going to take you when he wants, won't he? Shouldn't matter to take any precautions.

But demons will try to kill you sooner than God's plan and they will try to do so when you are careless.

 

[EESCHMan]

But demons will try to kill you sooner than God's plan and they will try to do so when you are careless.

are you serious?!

 

[dsade]

But demons will try to kill you sooner than God's plan and they will try to do so when you are careless.

Nothing can happen contrary to god's will, remember?

 

[DmitryWI]

are you serious?!

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist."

Post #70 by Brian...

 

[EESCHMan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B5150
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist."


Apparently it's not working so well...being that 70 + % of the U.S. believes...maybe he's just fooling the Middle Eastern Folk...

 

[DmitryWI]

You don't believe...

 

[DmitryWI]

Nothing can happen contrary to god's will, remember?

I already explained to you about free will people have, God doesn't control you and your future depends on your action. God can help you to have better life if you ask for His guidance, but it is your choice to make, not God's.
You sound like no matter what you do, the outcome will be the same...

 

[EESCHMan]

You don't believe...

is that a question or a statement?

whichever, no I don't...

I've been in two major car accidents (5x rollover, head-on collision) and wasn't wearing a seatbelt in either (oops! yes, I've learned!) and besides my back, I'm fine.
In the rollover, the driver (who was religious) broke his neck, had his scalp sliced off and was in the hospital for 3 months...I emerged from that with literally a "scratch."
Go figure!

 

[CRUNCH]

Why is it, when a "good" person dies young, people will say it was God's will, or it was his/her time, or God had other plans for him/her. It would seem that if God has a plan for somebody, taking survival precautions wouldn't matter, god is going to take you when he wants and not before.

Do people die that god didn't plan for? Do they get to heaven and god says, "hey, what are you doing here?".

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, don't take it that way. Just asking questions.

 

[DmitryWI]

is that a question or a statement?

whichever, no I don't...

I've been in two major car accidents (5x rollover, head-on collision) and wasn't wearing a seatbelt in either (oops! yes, I've learned!) and besides my back, I'm fine.
In the rollover, the driver (who was religious) broke his neck, had his scalp sliced off and was in the hospital for 3 months...I emerged from that with literally a "scratch."
Go figure!

Everyone has different path, just because someone believes in God doesn't mean gonna get out of that situation better than non-believer. May be it was God's way to show you that He cares about you as much as anyone else, but you didn't recognize it. I don't know.
I was in one bad accident too, no seatbelt, no airbags but I didn't get hurt, cops couldn't believe that I just walked out on my own, they still sent me to the hospital and couldn't believe when doctors told them there's nothing wrong with me. I didn't believe in God back then either...

 

[MrTotality]

I already told you, God is the ultimate liberal!

funniest line of the day. I dont agree, but it actually made me laugh

 

[DmitryWI]

Why is it, when a "good" person dies young, people will say it was God's will, or it was his/her time, or God had other plans for him/her. It would seem that if God has a plan for somebody, taking survival precautions wouldn't matter, god is going to take you when he wants and not before.

Do people die that god didn't plan for? Do they get to heaven and god says, "hey, what are you doing here?".

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, don't take it that way. Just asking questions.

I know, you, out of many people alway been respectfull to me.
Thanks for that...

Why is it, when a "good" person dies young, people will say it was God's will, or it was his/her time, or God had other plans for him/her.

Because in most cases it is not true. It wasn't God's will, but this is what Bible teaches and they don't know any better, but believe that's the case.

Do people die that god didn't plan for?

Absolutely.

 

[MrTotality]

Do people die that god didn't plan for?

Absolutely.

whoa whoa whoa.......

this means there is a way to circumvent gods plan? hence he is not flawless and not an all perfect god? oh my, I am at a loss

 

[mmowry]

Why is it, when a "good" person dies young, people will say it was God's will, or it was his/her time, or God had other plans for him/her. It would seem that if God has a plan for somebody, taking survival precautions wouldn't matter, god is going to take you when he wants and not before.

Do people die that god didn't plan for? Do they get to heaven and god says, "hey, what are you doing here?".

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, don't take it that way. Just asking questions.

Well God has a will for our lives but its still our choice.He gave us common sense.When you are aware of His will and walk in it you are under His full umbrella of protection when you dont you take matters into your own hands.Thus inadvertantly saying Ill make my own decisions thus my will is my god at that moment.

"Beloved I wish above all things that you prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospers." He wants us to live life to the fulfillment of His plan but we can give the devil the right (due to disobedience) to influence us and our lives.

And why do unspeakable things happen to seemingly good people?Because God gave man authority over the Earth and if we dont walk in it there will be reprocussions.And sin leads to the breakdown of the system.the more corrupt it gets the worse it is.Just like a computer.

 

[dsade]

I already explained to you about free will people have, God doesn't control you and your future depends on your action. God can help you to have better life if you ask for His guidance, but it is your choice to make, not God's.
You sound like no matter what you do, the outcome will be the same...

My future depends on my actions? What about the 14 month old babies that are disgustingly raped and murdered? What exactly did these kids do to reap those consequences? Was it an exercise of their infantile "free will" that brought this upon them?

 

[EESCHMan]

My future depends on my actions? What about the 14 month old babies that are disgustingly raped and murdered? What exactly did these kids do to reap those consequences? Was it an exercise of their infantile "free will" that brought this upon them?

Don't you know we are "all born with sin?"
even those yet born...we all have a strike against us going into this life.

Luckily I don't believe in it...

 

[EESCHMan]

Everyone has different path, just because someone believes in God doesn't mean gonna get out of that situation better than non-believer. May be it was God's way to show you that He cares about you as much as anyone else, but you didn't recognize it. I don't know.
I was in one bad accident too, no seatbelt, no airbags but I didn't get hurt, cops couldn't believe that I just walked out on my own, they still sent me to the hospital and couldn't believe when doctors told them there's nothing wrong with me. I didn't believe in God back then either...

I'm curious as to what "convinced" you into believing?

 

[mmowry]

My future depends on my actions? What about the 14 month old babies that are disgustingly raped and murdered? What exactly did these kids do to reap those consequences? Was it an exercise of their infantile "free will" that brought this upon them?

Parents are given the responsibility to look out for their kids.And I was molested as a child and I cant blame it on God.If my parents would have had some discernment they would have knew there was something wrong with the individual that they left into their home.But they were living for theur own will and were spiritualy dead as it were.Sin disconnects us from God and fear of retribution for our sin or pride keeps us from having fellowship or even recognising Him.

So seeing how man was given the job of following God and and authority to govern the Earth by Gods statutes.So in essence its EVERYONES fault these things occur.

 

[mmowry]

Don't you know we are "all born with sin?"
even those yet born...we all have a strike against us going into this life.

Luckily I don't believe in it...

You can believe or not believe whatever you want but that doesnt mean it isnt true.

 

[DmitryWI]

My future depends on my actions? What about the 14 month old babies that are disgustingly raped and murdered? What exactly did these kids do to reap those consequences? Was it an exercise of their infantile "free will" that brought this upon them?

Someone took free will from that baby. Baby didn't do anything wrong, but someone else did....

 

[dsade]

Parents are given the responsibility to look out for their kids.And I was molested as a child and I cant blame it on God.If my parents would have had some discernment they would have knew there was something wrong with the individual that they left into their home.But they were living for theur own will and were spiritualy dead as it were.Sin disconnects us from God and fear of retribution for our sin or pride keeps us from having fellowship or even recognising Him.

So seeing how man was given the job of following God and and authority to govern the Earth by Gods statutes.So in essence its EVERYONES fault these things occur.

Is God incapable of preventing the torture of innocents? And what if someone kicks in your door guns blazing, to kidnap, torture, and murder your child in the course of a robbery?

Do you not see any situation where parents would be unable to prevent some sick, evil bastard from "exercising his free will" upon a defenseless child? And yet, this all-powerful god stands by and lets it happen when it would take merely a thought to prevent it.

 

[dsade]

Someone took free will from that baby. Baby didn't do anything wrong, but someone else did....

And yet the innocent baby is the one that suffers, while god stands idly by?

That kind of god is either impotent, apathetic, or pure evil. Your pick.

 

[DmitryWI]

Well God has a will for our lives but its still our choice.He gave us common sense.When you are aware of His will and walk in it you are under His full umbrella of protection when you dont you take matters into your own hands.Thus inadvertantly saying Ill make my own decisions thus my will is my god at that moment.

"Beloved I wish above all things that you prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospers." He wants us to live life to the fulfillment of His plan but we can give the devil the right (due to disobedience) to influence us and our lives.

And why do unspeakable things happen to seemingly good people?Because God gave man authority over the Earth and if we dont walk in it there will be reprocussions.And sin leads to the breakdown of the system.the more corrupt it gets the worse it is.Just like a computer.

Parents are given the responsibility to look out for their kids.And I was molested as a child and I cant blame it on God.If my parents would have had some discernment they would have knew there was something wrong with the individual that they left into their home.But they were living for theur own will and were spiritualy dead as it were.Sin disconnects us from God and fear of retribution for our sin or pride keeps us from having fellowship or even recognising Him.

So seeing how man was given the job of following God and and authority to govern the Earth by Gods statutes.So in essence its EVERYONES fault these things occur.

Well said, MMOWRY :cheers:

 

[somewhatgifted]

This is an interesting place to share religious/spiritual ideas, whereas we would otherwise not likely encounter another. I can share ideas, learn and chat with people from different classes areas and countries, truly invaluable. I think we sometimes forget that we cannot change anothers perspective easily and tend to be frustrated when these unrealistic attempts occur. Some however remain calm and consistent and can, with a clear mind further their enlightenment. I have a hard time following these conversations and by comparison my views seem juvenile, but why is this so complicated? all most religions have provided for me lately is confusion and doubt. I struggle to believe anything governs man and its activities, and i think the simplicity of our existence is filthied up by people trying to make something out of nothing.

 

[DmitryWI]

And yet the innocent baby is the one that suffers, while god stands idly by?

That kind of god is either impotent, apathetic, or pure evil. Your pick.

Basically you are trying to make an excuse for some sick ****, who did it because God allowed him to do? Dose it make you feel better?
Because people chose to have free will, God isn't gonna do anything, unless you ask...

 

[mmowry]

"the carnal mind is at emnity with God" so theres no point in letting this go on.Jesus said "if you enter a town and they accept you and my gospel I will let My peace reside there but if they reject you and My gospel shake the dust from your feet and my peace will not reside"

I wonder how many people who are fighting against God (even though they KNOW they are fighting against a ficticious character) sleep well at night?Do they Have hope and joy when they are all alone and dont have to stay busy all the time to keep from dealing with this inner struggle?

 

[dsade]

Basically you are trying to make an excuse for some sick ****, who did it because God allowed him to do? Dose it make you feel better?
Because people chose to have free will, God isn't gonna do anything, unless you ask...

How exactly does a small child ask god to help, if not with its agonized screams? Yet god does nothing, as these horrors happens every day.

Where is your god when these children suffer by no fault of their own, when all he has to do is think about it and the evil scum would be instantly in hell, and the child safe?

 

[DmitryWI]

How exactly does a small child ask god to help, if not with its agonized screams? Yet god does nothing, as these horrors happens every day.

Where is your god when these children suffer by no fault of their own, when all he has to do is think about it and the evil scum would be instantly in hell, and the child safe?

That child has parents. And God wants you to ask Him for guidence and protection every day, not only when some sh1t goes down. It's pretty sad actually, how all those people act all tough untill something bad happens and then they cry for God's help and willing to believe in Him or some kind of miracle.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Gonna throw some ideas out there to see if anyone can help me with my confusion.
Does "god" watch over us?
If god does watch over us would he intervene for 1 out of nearly 7 billion percivably needy people.
Whats right is based upon perspective so alluding to "your" book doesnt change that.
So many gods and paths in the world who's right? or is the simple message lost by bickering over who has it more right.
Why would a god punish people?
Why do we attach so much value to our habits if they do not harm?
You were born when your dads sperm joined your moms egg and formed a zygote, what does god have to do with that?
How can anyone ask for help or a solution when the answers lie around them?
How do people who all "know" they are doing the right thing continue to see pain and suffering during "religious wars" not realise they are the problem.
How do "god loving" citizens justify the nearly 700,000 dead iraqi citizens, when iraq never attacked the us?

 

[dsade]

That child has parents. And God wants you to ask Him for guidence and protection every day, not only when some sh1t goes down. It's pretty sad actually, how all those people act all tough untill something bad happens and then they cry for God's help and willing to believe in Him or some kind of miracle.

We are judged and punished by our OWN sins, correct? Is it justice that the child was born with crappy parents, and so the child suffers the consequences? Is that JUSTICE to you?

 

[somewhatgifted]

How exactly does a small child ask god to help, if not with its agonized screams? Yet god does nothing, as these horrors happens every day.

Where is your god when these children suffer by no fault of their own, when all he has to do is think about it and the evil scum would be instantly in hell, and the child safe?

This doesnt prove or disprove a goldy existence, if you went out and killed someone they die.... If someone else kills a kid they die... why should they be magically saved, thats rediculous to expect. whats the difference between that kid and any other innocent victim. Our actions shape the world so why should there be exceptions?

 

[dsade]

This doesnt prove or disprove a goldy existence, if you went out and killed someone they die.... If someone else kills a kid they die... why should they be magically saved, thats rediculous to expect. whats the difference between that kid and any other innocent victim. Our actions shape the world so why should there be exceptions?

I'm not the one claiming that some all powerful, all knowing being that supposedly has the power and morality to stand for good or evil exists.

If a being exists that is moral, and that being is both all knowing and all powerful, then it means nothing could exist that was NOT in accordance with its will....which means all the horrors that happen to innocent people MUST be in accordance with such a being's will...which then removes the quality of being moral.

 

[CRUNCH]

Well God has a will for our lives but its still our choice.He gave us common sense.When you are aware of His will and walk in it you are under His full umbrella of protection when you dont you take matters into your own hands.Thus inadvertantly saying Ill make my own decisions thus my will is my god at that moment.

Ok...so if you don't wear a seatbelt, you're not under his umbrella of protection?

Or...if you truelly believe in him, then you are under his umbrella of protection. Is a seatbelt then still necessary?

 

[DmitryWI]

I don't think I can answer all your questions, but I can answer few...


Does "god" watch over us?

Yes, always, but many don't realize God has something to do with it.

If god does watch over us would he intervene for 1 out of nearly 7 billion percivably needy people.

answer above.

Whats right is based upon perspective so alluding to "your" book doesnt change that.
So many gods and paths in the world who's right? or is the simple message lost by bickering over who has it more right.

There's only one God. I don't care how they call Him and who they worship, it's still the same God, they just don't know it or try to create their own "gods"

Why would a god punish people?

He never does. People doing pretty good job on their own...


Why do we attach so much value to our habits if they do not harm?

???

You were born when your dads sperm joined your moms egg and formed a zygote, what does god have to do with that?

You have a soul that is a part of God's energy. Without soul you are nothing.

How can anyone ask for help or a solution when the answers lie around them?

???

How do people who all "know" they are doing the right thing continue to see pain and suffering during "religious wars" not realise they are the problem.

The answer is in your question. Key word: "know"
How do "god loving" citizens justify the nearly 700,000 dead iraqi citizens, when iraq never attacked the us?

God didn't kill anyone, people did...

 

[Naseem]

How exactly does a small child ask god to help, if not with its agonized screams? Yet god does nothing, as these horrors happens every day.

Where is your god when these children suffer by no fault of their own, when all he has to do is think about it and the evil scum would be instantly in hell, and the child safe?

hey dsade i got u r point ! and we all born without sins ! yes there is bebies and innocent ppl who suffer thats all about test but god let that happen since we all have the free will and through those ppl actions god keep the evidence to judje them and god let that happen it doesnt mean that god loves that that teh way ppl got the test and life in this earth didnt mean to be perfect else it wouldnt be no test and god would create us all pure! but thats all about test that evryday we passin!
and in other way we have teh destiny that u cant influance it like the death ! , as example how many ppl hade like sever deases or even got shot to the head and didnt die sume call that chance but it is destiny!

 

[CRUNCH]

Where this discussion has gone is the number one point I have with believing in "god" as most are describing him. All loving, etc...

I can't believe in a god that would allow all the suffering of innocent people and animals to continue. Humans have been torturing each other for thousands of years, when is enough, enough? At some point long ago, this god would have shown it's self and put a stop to everything. Right now, in my mind, this god is not all loving and/or simply just doesn't care what we do to each other.

There is not a single arguement I've seen here or anywhere else that would change my mind about that. The cruelity that we inflict on each other every day should have been stopped a very long time ago. That would be a loving god that I could worship, not the one we have now.

 

[EESCHMan]

"The existence of evil, in particular, gratuitous suffering, is logically inconsistent with an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent God."

"God or no God, torturing the innocents is vile. More generally, even if we can make nothing of the concept of God, we can readily come to appreciate...that, if anything is evil, inflicting or tolerating unnecessary and pointless suffering is evil, especially when something can be done about it. An onmibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient God can do something about it."

 

[mmowry]

Ok...so if you don't wear a seatbelt, you're not under his umbrella of protection?

Or...if you truelly believe in him, then you are under his umbrella of protection. Is a seatbelt then still necessary?

If I dont wear my seatbelt its my pride that keeps me from obeying the law.(this is a lesson I just recently came to terms with actually) and His word says "He resists the proud but in due season will exhault the humble.

I dont like wearing my seatbelt but it is the law and were to follow the law (unless its in direct violation of Gods laws) Thats also why I quit using illegal anabolics.Not that I have a problem with them at all.Actually I think its ridiculous that steroid laws are what they are but its not worth jeopardising my family if I get a schedule 3 fellony.

 

[CRUNCH]

"The existence of evil, in particular, gratuitous suffering, is logically inconsistent with an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent God."

"God or no God, torturing the innocents is vile. More generally, even if we can make nothing of the concept of God, we can readily come to appreciate...that, if anything is evil, inflicting or tolerating unnecessary and pointless suffering is evil, especially when something can be done about it. An onmibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient God can do something about it."

AGREED!!

 

[mmowry]

"The existence of evil, in particular, gratuitous suffering, is logically inconsistent with an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent God."

"God or no God, torturing the innocents is vile. More generally, even if we can make nothing of the concept of God, we can readily come to appreciate...that, if anything is evil, inflicting or tolerating unnecessary and pointless suffering is evil, especially when something can be done about it. An onmibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient God can do something about it."

Theres a BIG difference between evil acts and evil beings.

 

[EESCHMan]

Where this discussion has gone is the number one point I have with believing in "god" as most are describing him. All loving, etc...

I can't believe in a god that would allow all the suffering of innocent people and animals to continue. Humans have been torturing each other for thousands of years, when is enough, enough? At some point long ago, this god would have shown it's self and put a stop to everything. Right now, in my mind, this god is not all loving and/or simply just doesn't care what we do to each other.

There is not a single arguement I've seen here or anywhere else that would change my mind about that. The cruelity that we inflict on each other every day should have been stopped a very long time ago. That would be a loving god that I could worship, not the one we have now.

yes, and a point I made elsewhere:

say God doesn't exist (he doesn't) would the world really be any different than it is now?

 

[CRUNCH]

Theres a BIG difference between evil acts and evil beings.

Difference or no difference, it's being ALLOWED to happen.