Critique my westside bench routine

[SoupNaziNazi]

Ok so I've been doing westside for around a year and I've been making solid gains but always wanted someone to critique my routine.

Saturday: Dynamic Effort
-9x3 flat bench with 50% max, change grip every three sets starting with close grip
-Plyometric push-ups 3x8-12
-Close-Grip 2x8
-Shoulder press super set w/ lateral raises 2x8
-Facepulls 3x15-35
-Back exercise 5x8-15

Tuesday: Max Effort
-Switch exercises each week in a rotation of incline bench, rack press, future method, floor press, repeat. Warm up with 2 sets of just the bar 12-20 reps then 135x10 then 185x5 then 225x3 then 275-295x1 then start getting into my working sets. I like to really warm up for fear of a pec tear.
-after main exercise I take 80% of last set and rep it out till failure.
-3 sets of isometric bench press holds for 5-8 seconds with 120-200% max weight
-5x10 overhead rope presses
-3x10-20 landmines
-3x15-35 facepulls
-5 sets back exercise 6-15 reps

Thursday: Repetition Method
-Incline DB 2x6
-Flat bench pause press 2x10-20
-close grip floor press 2-3x8-10

Side notes:
-every three weeks I switch from using chains on the dynamic day with bench to bands
-the last dynamic day of the cycle I do three heavy sets of regular bench usually all 1 reps but slowly work up to near max
-ill take a deload week every two to three dynamic cycles

So basically I'm curious as to know if this is to much, not enough, or just right. I'm concerned with CNS fatigue and would like to know if this is too much work for my CNS. So far I'm doing gear and really like it I just don't want to hit a wall down the road cause I'm doing to much or something. Any advice is welcome. God Bless

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

That's supposed to say great btw not gear lmao

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

Also for max effort days I only do 3-4 working sets after the warm up

 

[Rodja]

For raw guys, I'm not a big fan of conjugate training. Also, why 3 days per week instead of 2?

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

For raw guys, I'm not a big fan of conjugate training. Also, why 3 days per week instead of 2?

I like to take the two sets of 15-20 reps they do after the main exercise and save it for Thursday so I'm more fresh. What programs would u suggest for natty raw lifters I'd be interested in reading up on it

 

[Rodja]

Check of Wendler's new 5/3/1. He has a template that includes speed work and what he calls Joker sets to go for heavy singles.

 

[Sean1332]

Check of Wendler's new 5/3/1. He has a template that includes speed work and what he calls Joker sets to go for heavy singles.

This.

Beyond 5/3/1. He offers a lot more variety. He has a few different setups to include dynamic work, heavy singles, and peaking. Work assistance how you seem fit

Cube Method may be a good option. I was a huge fan of it at first but my heart was in 5/3/1 still. It was enjoyable though.

5/3/1 is fool proof. Just make it work for you.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

Thanks for the replies ill be sure to read up on those. But still curious as to if anyone has an "opinion" I guess ud call it on my current routine?

 

[Sean1332]

What's the rest of your routine? I don't like the idea of pushing 3x a week.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

What's the rest of your routine? I don't like the idea of pushing 3x a week.

That's the whole routine. I used to do back on Sundays but I wanted more time to rest so I through in back exercises at the end of the two main workouts sometimes Thursday too. I don't do legs for a few personal reasons. My family has a history of bad backs and I know people say that with proper form ull be fine but I honestly don't feel it's worth it to me. Also my legs are what I feel "too big" I have a hard time buying regular jeans and pants because there tight in the quads and ass but loose in the waist and I also don't like that feeling when wearing them it makes me uncomfortable. I was just curious as to if this would be an effective routine or if I'm puttin to much of a beating on my CNS?

 

[Rodja]

Get ready to be flamed.

 

[Sean1332]

You seem very misguided by not training legs. Do currently have back problems? Don't want to train legs because you have a hard time buying jeans? That sounds like a very douchey exuse.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

You seem very misguided by not training legs. Do currently have back problems? Don't want to train legs because you have a hard time buying jeans? That sounds like a very douchey exuse.

I understand what ur saying. Yes I have minor lower back issues atm that I'm trying to correct with abs and high rep good mornings. At the end of the day u gotta do it for urself not others. Will I never do legs again probably not but right now I do not.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

You seem very misguided by not training legs. Do currently have back problems? Don't want to train legs because you have a hard time buying jeans? That sounds like a very douchey exuse.

I do like that picture btw!

 

[Sean1332]

I still think you're ridiculous. Was your lower back issue looked at by a chiro or doc?

I thought you mentioned before that you're going to cut 25lbs to compete 198.

I highly doubt you're anywhere close to overloading your CNS. You're doing one ME lift a week, and it's only bench press, and everything else is only bench press. Westside contains two ME days per week. Even that wouldnt overload your CNS

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

I still think you're ridiculous. Was your lower back issue looked at by a chiro or doc?

I thought you mentioned before that you're going to cut 25lbs to compete 198.

I highly doubt you're anywhere close to overloading your CNS. You're doing one ME lift a week, and it's only bench press, and everything else is only bench press. Westside contains two ME days per week. Even that wouldnt overload your CNS

Your entitled to ur opinion as I am entitled to mine. I appreciate ur response. At the end of the day I'm working towards my goals no one else's. again thanks for ur input it is appreciated.

 

[herderdude]

Gene Rychlak believed squatting heavy prepared his body for handling heavy weights on the bench. Scot Mendelson has torn a quad benching. If you see the doctor and make sure there's nothing wrong posturally (and fix it if there is), you could use leg training to improve your bench. Nobody said you have to squat and pull at a max effort level or even at a competitive level, but cultures that spend a lot of time squatting have near zero occurrence of back pain. So it could actually benefit you in the short term and the long term.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

Gene Rychlak believed squatting heavy prepared his body for handling heavy weights on the bench. Scot Mendelson has torn a quad benching. If you see the doctor and make sure there's nothing wrong posturally (and fix it if there is), you could use leg training to improve your bench. Nobody said you have to squat and pull at a max effort level or even at a competitive level, but cultures that spend a lot of time squatting have near zero occurrence of back pain. So it could actually benefit you in the short term and the long term.

Thank your for that info. I'm not ruling it out for the future just not currently doing any.

 

[Torobestia]

Are you raw or geared? I think you're raw, but I just wanted to clarify (I know the one time you mentioned gear it was a typo). Also, what's your bodyweight and current bench max?

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

Are you raw or geared? I think you're raw, but I just wanted to clarify (I know the one time you mentioned gear it was a typo). Also, what's your bodyweight and current bench max?

I'm raw, never really had or have an interest in gear. Right now its pretty pathetic but I'm 217lbs bodyweight and my max is 385.

 

[asooneyeonig]

I'm raw, never really had or have an interest in gear. Right now its pretty pathetic but I'm 217lbs bodyweight and my max is 385.

i have a question. who do you hang around that you think that is pathetic? i remember my last 3 meets quite well. most people didnt squat that much weight let alone deadlift that much and if they did it was not much more. sure they were small meets but that bench would have placed you as one of the best benches of the day for all 3 meets.

according to RAW powerlifting standards that puts you at a class I lifter and nearly a masters level. you would be elite according to exrx.net.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

i have a question. who do you hang around that you think that is pathetic? i remember my last 3 meets quite well. most people didnt squat that much weight let alone deadlift that much and if they did it was not much more. sure they were small meets but that bench would have placed you as one of the best benches of the day for all 3 meets.

according to RAW powerlifting standards that puts you at a class I lifter and nearly a masters level. you would be elite according to exrx.net.

Idk I guess I just underestimate myself and often compare myself to anyone who is better than me. I appreciate ur kind words. I actually just stumbled across a thread by torobestia that u posted a link to a tnation thread talking about the three different blocks for westside. Good read I'm gonna start implementing those because as u can tell from my current routine I just keep doing the same thing with the exception of changing the DE day every three weeks and the main exercise of ME each week so thank you for that.

 

[Torobestia]

That is a good bench.

Here are my thoughts. First, you say you're making good gains on this Westside program, so that's great.

For many people, pressing three times a week is a challenging thing to do, especially the bench press. Your third bench day, an RE day, besides continuing to use a lot of barbell lifts does look like a bench accessory day and not unreasonable. You have to make sure it's not wearing you down too hard, impeding recovery, and keeping you from making gains.

How does your body feel right now, and what about your chest/shoulders/elbows? I might imagine the biggest thing this program would generate are imbalances. If everything feels right, then it appears that for you and your body you not have such a bad ratio of pulling to pushing movements. Honestly, I'd still add more rows, say on your RE day, and also add a rear delt exercise since you're working your front delts so much.

Personally, on Westside I didn't find myself hitting a wall too frequently in terms of CNS fatigue. More often than not, I would start to develop soreness and pain associated with overuse injuries before any of the psychological or other side effects of overtraining appeared. That's when I'd take a deload. Just listen to your body and take the deloads when you need them.

 

[Torobestia]

Also consider that the bench press is a whole body exercise, and even if you don't train to compete in leg strength you should still train your legs to drive your bench press up. As someone mentioned earlier, Gene still trains his lower body, and actually Scott has mentioned that he squats as well, just not to hit PRs or compete in it for powerlifting.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

That is a good bench.

Here are my thoughts. First, you say you're making good gains on this Westside program, so that's great.

For many people, pressing three times a week is a challenging thing to do, especially the bench press. Your third bench day, an RE day, besides continuing to use a lot of barbell lifts does look like a bench accessory day and not unreasonable. You have to make sure it's not wearing you down too hard, impeding recovery, and keeping you from making gains.

How does your body feel right now, and what about your chest/shoulders/elbows? I might imagine the biggest thing this program would generate are imbalances. If everything feels right, then it appears that for you and your body you not have such a bad ratio of pulling to pushing movements. Honestly, I'd still add more rows, say on your RE day, and also add a rear delt exercise since you're working your front delts so much.

Personally, on Westside I didn't find myself hitting a wall too frequently in terms of CNS fatigue. More often than not, I would start to develop soreness and pain associated with overuse injuries before any of the psychological or other side effects of overtraining appeared. That's when I'd take a deload. Just listen to your body and take the deloads when you need them.

I feel good right now as a whole but I do feel slightly sluggish no matter how much sleep I get but once I get in the gym I'm kinda ok so I'm guessing as of now that's not a bad thing? I've added in some rotator work at the end of my RE day, I have minor pains in the shoulders and elbows that come and go but nothing serious. I'm thinking about getting some more cissus and trying some flax seed too. The cissus has worked very nicely in the past but I've never tried flax. U make a good point with with adding more pulling to balance it out so ill definitely add some in on RE day. Another question I have for either u or asoon would be regarding StormTheBeach's westside block thread on tnation. The thread is helping alot in terms of making things more clear but I don't really get why the little 20-30 min workouts the next day after ME or DE are ment for, and how doing say 100 rep set of tricep press downs helps the triceps recover more? I guess I just don't understand how more exercise helps u recover more? I was also considering adding in high rep legs on Sunday to try to harden them up abit but hopefully not grow to much. Thank you guys for ur kind words and advice its much appreciated.

 

[Torobestia]

I feel good right now as a whole but I do feel slightly sluggish no matter how much sleep I get but once I get in the gym I'm kinda ok so I'm guessing as of now that's not a bad thing? I've added in some rotator work at the end of my RE day, I have minor pains in the shoulders and elbows that come and go but nothing serious. I'm thinking about getting some more cissus and trying some flax seed too. The cissus has worked very nicely in the past but I've never tried flax. U make a good point with with adding more pulling to balance it out so ill definitely add some in on RE day. Another question I have for either u or asoon would be regarding StormTheBeach's westside block thread on tnation. The thread is helping alot in terms of making things more clear but I don't really get why the little 20-30 min workouts the next day after ME or DE are ment for, and how doing say 100 rep set of tricep press downs helps the triceps recover more? I guess I just don't understand how more exercise helps u recover more? I was also considering adding in high rep legs on Sunday to try to harden them up abit but hopefully not grow to much. Thank you guys for ur kind words and advice its much appreciated.

I dont' exactly know what the routine you're talking about is, so this is just a guess. It sounds like he's describing feeder or recovery workouts, which involves very light weight, high rep exercises to promote increased blood flow to the areas that were just worked or to areas you intend to train the next day for the purpose of aiding in the recovery process. So it is not to address hypertrophy but to just to increase circulation.

I'd take a deload from the ME and RE days probably after every 3-6 weeks, maybe every 6 weeks to line it up with the deload on the DE days. But if you need it sooner take it.

 

[SoupNaziNazi]

I dont' exactly know what the routine you're talking about is, so this is just a guess. It sounds like he's describing feeder or recovery workouts, which involves very light weight, high rep exercises to promote increased blood flow to the areas that were just worked or to areas you intend to train the next day for the purpose of aiding in the recovery process. So it is not to address hypertrophy but to just to increase circulation.

I'd take a deload from the ME and RE days probably after every 3-6 weeks, maybe every 6 weeks to line it up with the deload on the DE days. But if you need it sooner take it.

Alright yea that sounds like it would work very nicely thank you for ur time and advice I really appreciate it.

 

[Joe_P]

I am not going to blast you for not training legs as I have trained with at least half dozen bench only guys. Some of whom lifted in the WPO. That being said, I never liked westside for raw benching or any benching for that matter. Drop the couple bucks and buy Josh Bryants bench ebook on elitefts. It is a very good read and he is about as credible a source on raw benching as there is. It has changed how I approach raw benching and gives you enough to allow you to create your own program. I just started a log here and my training is based on his book.