Creating the definitive fina/trenbolone PCT

[phaeton66]

Some thoughts on PCT regimens for trenbolone:

I can't believe I ever screwed around with superdrol; Tren is truly gear of the gods. In a light 4 week cycle last year, I experienced what amounts to a total body recomposition; diet, exercise and lovely, lovely trenbolone finally made my old body relatively lean. I stayed at 190lbs or so, lost 3" off my waist, kept my chest size while losing pubertal gyno, gained an inch on my arms, and what is more: one full year later, despite not hitting the gear since then, eating a relatively sloppy diet (compared to years past, when I couldn't lose any fat), and doing precious little cardio since then, I have actually kept every inch of my gains. Trenbolone is a harsh mistress; it was only a 4 week transdermal, but it made me feel alternately godlike and moody-insane. But it was worth it. To an old guy like me, it really changed my life as much as lifting weights did in the first place.

Here's my past miracle cycle:

• 100mg 4AD/day (for sides; it worked while on)
• 120mg fina/day in DMSO (ramped up to 120mg from 60mg over time as I got used to it)
• 250mcg cabergoline e3d

See if you can spot where I was an idiot in my PCT. Here's my past PCT plan:

• Toremifene: 60mg/day front loaded @ 120mg for first 2 days
• 250mcg cabergoline e3d (prolactin control)
• DHEA 100mg for first week (cort control)
• GABA 5g every evening
• 4 caps activate ed once the nuts start to come back
• Maca daily once the nuts are back
• Cialis for morale

What ended up happening: I felt totally suppressed for the first 3 weeks; I actually cranked the dose of torem up to 120mg again for a week. Then it started to kick in. I didn't feel recovered enough to use the activate for a full month; usually (superdrol experience only) torem gets my balls back in 4-6 days. I stayed on the torem and cabergoline for a full 7 weeks.

In retrospect I figure I was under dosing the cabergoline, and shouldn't have touched the GABA at all. Sure, extra growth hormone is great for a PCT ... but accompanied by extra prolactin in this situation, it's worse than useless. Who knows what it does when mixed with caber. Finally, I think the most important fact is that toremifene is a bad PCT drug for trenbolone, probably for the same reasons nolvadex is a bad PCT drug for trenbolone (prolactin, basically). Something I could have done smarter is up the 4AD while on cycle (this small dose seemed to be enough to avoid fina **** while I was on it), and run it a week or two longer than the tren. I'm guessing that waiting for the tren to clear completely before I take a SERM is going to do my body more good than waiting for it to clear while on a SERM. Either that, or I'm going to saponify the tren into a base and do the base for the last week or two. If I'm gonna do that though, I better get out my test tubes, as I started my fina 2 days ago.

Present 4 week cycle:

• 4AD 350mg/day (I need to get rid of it, besides which, it feels nice)
• fina 120mg/day
• cabergoline 250mcg/EOday

Proposed basic PCT:

• 100/100/75/50mg clomid
• 500mcg cabergoline e3d

Possible adjuncts:

• Starting the PCT after one week of 4AD only, to clear the tren from my system completely.
• Toremifene 60mg/day -on the same philosophy people take Nolva with Clomid.
• 100mg DHEA -cort control, plus I'm old
• IGF-1lr3 30mcg/eod -I've wanted to hit this stuff for a long time now. Seems like a great substance to aid tough recoveries, and I'd like to give it a shot for nagging injuries and anti-aging properties. I suspect tren's effects on IGF is one of the reasons I like the pretty poison so much.
• 100mcg/day each of GHRP-6 + CJC-1295/mod GRF(1-29) -seems like this would also aid in recovery in the HPTA in the same way as IGF-1lr3, and have even more positive anti-aging properties but I worry about the prolactin and cortisol releasing properties of GHRP-6. Yeah, I know, it isn't supposed to happen if you stack it with CJC-1295, but nobody really knows if this is true with GRF(1-29) -though it seems like it should be OK.
• Maca + cialis -because it can't hurt my morale having a ****

yeah, I should probably just use HCG and shut up about the rest of the crap, but in the world I live in, it's easier to find insane peptides like IGF-1lr3 than HCG. Plus I want IGF in my body, rather than preggos lady urine.

Any thoughts from those who are more experienced? Yeah, I could inject the fina and run test instead of 4AD. But this is the PCT forum, so call me an idiot for having a dumb PCT, not for doing a dumb cycle. I love my dumb cycle! I want to love my PCT also. Am I just overreacting to the harshness of tren shutdown? Is it possible to have a tren PCT which is as easy as a superdrol PCT, or do I just need to suck it up and spend more time in PCT.

 

[phaeton66]

Since I've started my PCT, I'll post an update.

First off, the cycle was kind of tough. Zero tren sides this time around, which I attribute to a use of a higher level of 4-AD; I averaged around 500mg of 4-AD with 120-140mg fina a day, transdermal, using dermabolix spiked with DMSO. Upside; awesome -no fina ****. Downside, I burned the skin off my damn body! Next time, IM for sure. I also had some bloat problems from the 4-AD after the first two weeks or so which I ended up controlling pretty easily with 1mg EOD letrozole. I also used caber at 250mcg e3d. Somewhere along the line, I developed a sensitivity to one of the adjuncts; it was either the caber or the sweet stuff the letrozole and caber are suspended in. It caused tremendous sinus swelling. Either that or I've had a cold for the last 4-5 weeks. Still, the cycle was a big success; I exceeded my goals for a recomp. I have some pretty cool looking abs, and my strength went up as my waist shrunk.

I ran the fina + 4AD for 34 days.
I ran the 4AD standalone at a slightly higher dose for 10 further days. I think it's important to let the fina clear completely before starting PCT. 3 days after your last dose isn't enough.
I started running 30mcg igf-1lr3 bilat on workout days (15mcg each side), and 10mcg into injuries on rest days for PCT from day 30 of my cycle. This means I'll have been on igf-1lr3 for workout and PCT recovery for 14 days of my cycle, and for however long afterwords. Probably another 14 days.

I'm in day 3 of a clomid PCT, my nuts are full sized. Frankly, they were pretty OK once I started taking the IGF-1. IGF-1 is awesome. My testosterone seems normal to maybe slightly high. I stopped taking letrozole and cabergoline.

My PCT regimin should end up looking like this:
week 1/2) 50mg clomid, 50mcg clenbuterol. IGF-1 30mcg on workout days, 10mcg off days, DHEA 100/50mg transdermal, benadryl at night
week 3/4) 25mg clomid, 100mcg clenbuterol, GHRP-6 100mcg + benadryl at night

I have some toremifene on hand for any estro-related flare ups. Letro as well, but I prefer the nolva-like aspects of toremifine.

Compared to my first fina PCT, this is already a huge success. I think the 10 days of just 4AD was a big help, like Arthur Rea talks about in his hybrid cycles (androgens first, then anabolics in his complex cycles). But honestly, I think the igf-1lr3 grows your nuts like crazy. Hopefully it isn't growing anything I don't want it it grow. :/

 

[futurepilot]

You got pretty great results off this cycle, for what you were taking

If your doing 120mg trenA transderm, and lets say you get the upper end estimate of conversion (25%), that means your getting around 30mgs ED.

And as far as "letting the fina clear" your system, it has a half life of about 1 day, so PCT can be started right away.

 

[phaeton66]

You got pretty great results off this cycle, for what you were taking

If your doing 120mg trenA transderm, and lets say you get the upper end estimate of conversion (25%), that means your getting around 30mgs ED.

And as far as "letting the fina clear" your system, it has a half life of about 1 day, so PCT can be started right away.

I've always read that trenbolone acetate has a 2-3 day half life. If half of it is gone in 3 days, there's still 1/4 of it in your blood at 6 days, and 1/8 at 9 days. That was part of the idea. The other part was to replicate the ideas of Arthur Rea and Nelson Montana: short cycles with strong androgens at the beginning, tapering off into something more anabolic than androgenic, to assist in recovery. I think most people will agree tren is way more suppressive than 4AD. I don't know how much this taper thing helped (I think IGF-1's testicle-building superpowers overwhelm any effect from tapering), but I'm real happy with the results from this cycle. Last time I did fina, I started PCT more or less right away, and recovery was extremely difficult.

I know everyone says the absorption for T/A is limited to something like 20%, but either I'm sensitive, or I have extremely porous skin. I tried up to 200mg/day, and ... it was way too much. Psychologically and physically; it felt like too much. I'll pin it next time with some test, so I'll have a better idea of how much I was getting transdermally. Figured there wasn't much point in pinning this time if I was already running 4AD transdermal. It might very well have been 30mg effective a day. Everyone talks about something like that as a beginner dose, and I am a beginner.

Nothing to report today: I continue to feel great.

 

[phaeton66]

To update:
For the first two weeks of my PCT, I kept up a regimin of

100mcg clenbuterol
50mg benadryl in evening (clen recovery)
50mg clomid
IGF-1lr3
rest days 10mcg
workout days 30mcg (15mcg into each side)

For week 1, I threw in some morning transdermal DHEA when I felt ragged. I think this helped a lot; more than the clenbuterol.

For week 2, I also threw in 60mg/day of toremifene, which I think helped a bit. Was definitely feeling normal, if a bit hypoglycemic by the end of week 2. The IGF-1lr3 really brings your nuts back fast.

Started 100mcg GHRP-6 week 3, once or twice a day. Quit the clenbuterol. I'm pretty much back to normal PCT wise, but I'll continue on the clomid until the end of the month.

General substance observations: IGF-1lr3 makes you really darn tired. I felt like I could have slept all day. The hypoglycemia also didn't work the way I thought it would. I figured I had to worry about it immediately after pinning the IGF. It was actually a danger all day. Especially if I went to the gym on an empty stomach. Fortunately, I brought sugar to nosh on, but it was a little spooky.

GHRP-6 fills me with a remarkable feeling of well being all day. Perhaps it's just psychological, or it's just relief from having my nuts back to normal, but I feel damn good. If I manage to pin it twice (basically, I hit it before I go to sleep, then again with a preloaded pin if I get up at night to take a piss), I really feel remarkably good.

General PCT observations: I only had two rough days, after a heavy drinking bout (yes, I know, I'm an idiot; WTF, it was fun and it got me laid). Usually, clomid has me a psychological wreck the entire month. This PCT is much better than my all torem PCT of last year.

So, thus far, the protocol for tren PCT has been:
Week -2 start IGF-1lr3 on workout days
Week -1 stop tren, continue no-ester test product (4AD in my case), 50mcg clen day
Week 1 50mg clomid + 100mcg clenbuterol + 100mg transdermal DHEA + IGF-1lr3 bilat on workout days and 10mcg on off days
Week 2 50mg clomid + 100mcg clenbuterol + 60mg toremifene + IGF-1lr3 bilat on workout days and 10mcg on off days
Week 3 50mg clomid + GHRP-6 (100mcg, once or twice a day)
Week 4 50mg clomid + GHRP-6 (100mcg, once or twice a day)

I'll probably stay on the GHRP-6 until it's done. Don't know if it has any effect on my PCT, but it sure feels nice.

 

[phaeton66]

Jesus Christ, GHRP-6 is god. I think it's better than tren, both in terms of results and "this can't be as bad as tren is for me." I feel like superman. I may become addicted to my daily shots. And I may add sermorelin to it.

 

[phaeton66]

For what it is worth, I'm doing this again this year. This time with phlogel and a larger dose of fina (crystal rather than crushed pellets), at least at the front load, and as a sort of modest bulker. I think DMSO might penetrate the skin better than phlogel, but DMSO also rots my skin and is messy, so the phlogel is a welcome change already. Will post results as they come in for people who are interested.

 

[hardknock]

So what, if any, blood panels did you get pulled during/after the run?

 

[phaeton66]

So what, if any, blood panels did you get pulled during/after the run?

Didn't get any done. I'm sure the fina trashed my lipids for a few weeks, and I'm absolutely certain my test was back to normal by week 2-3. I might get my testosterone measured this year after PCT if I get curious, but since I didn't get it tested before I started, it won't exactly be scientific.

One month a year of low dose fina seems to help me meet my goals. Since it's only a month or so on, I'm not too worried about it.

I am upping the fina dose to 200mg, dosing in phlogel and using GHRP-6/GRF and divanil the whole cycle this time around, but the principle should work the same. I'll probably also use formestane instead of letro if I get bloat, but the fact that I now use phlogel should help a lot (basically, I don't have to put the 4ad on my man boobs, which probably produce more estrogen than putting it on my shoulders or arms).