Clomid to Boost endogenous test?

[greekgeorge]

So for now until I stop gaining strength I'm staying on clomid. As my test base with hcg and low dose orals like var for my cut. Taking clomid on cycle reduces suppression similarly to hcg. It's not widely done but if you look around you will find that some people do it. So my t base is dermacrine clomid hcg in up the dermacrine and take 100iu daily while I go on a oral for 7 weeks than up the clomid to 50 for 4 weeks and back down to 25mg. It's like a blast and cruise sorta method. Also for cutting clomid is good. It doesn't aid you in anyway but avoiding low t diet for 20 weeks for contest cutting makes hormones drop and clomid will help plenty enough to prevent that

 

[greekgeorge]

Sorry for my horrendous writing getting used to new phone auto correct

 

[beesknees]

Interesting, never heard of manipulating hormones in that way. Sounds like have been doing it for a while. I assume you generally feel pretty good and put on muscle easily? Will orals prevent the hormones in dermacrine from being produced so your boosting dosage or are you boosting the levels to help with downstream test production

 

[beesknees]

My clomid is lost in transit and my guy wont answer emails

 

[greekgeorge]

Interesting, never heard of manipulating hormones in that way. Sounds like have been doing it for a while. I assume you generally feel pretty good and put on muscle easily? Will orals prevent the hormones in dermacrine from being produced so your boosting dosage or are you boosting the levels to help with downstream test production

Little confused on the question there. Yes and no I lost a lot of muscle when I just dealt with low t for 2 years. It's been 8 months. My t was so low that all my joints hurt because my synovial fluid left them. 5 weeks in it was like magic to my joints and thus I was able to squat heavy again curl without elbow cracks. My test goes down somewhat when I throw a oral in but never falls below normal t levels. As long as some suppression is blocked from the low dose hcg and clomid I believe dermacrine keeps working. I certainly don't have lethargy on epistane or Anavar.

 

[greekgeorge]

Currently I'm on the normal high end of normal in terms of testosterone. I literally went from no benching because my knock would sting to benching 300 for 5. Which isn't great but since I'm getting older I hold back a little. Unless I'm on a oral. 135 hurt my knees so bad on squat I would want to scream. Hit 500 the other day with ease

 

[greekgeorge]

Interesting, never heard of manipulating hormones in that way. Sounds like have been doing it for a while. I assume you generally feel pretty good and put on muscle easily? Will orals prevent the hormones in dermacrine from being produced so your boosting dosage or are you boosting the levels to help with downstream test production

And to answer the question yes I feel terrific. My test is higher at 30 than it was when I was off cycle on my mid 20s. I don't think most people will give it enough time. Never would I ever only do a 4 weeks serm ever again. My last real cycle was 100mg injectable trest. Superdrol and test at 200 mg for 16 weeks. Super was 4 weeks at 20 mg. I got bloods on 8 weeks of clomid at only 12.5mg daily with d3 and a ai. Levels were in the 750s so I stopped and
Called it a successful pct. 2 years later I had test At 190. So in general in my opinion if you blast and cruise or want to but won't for whatever reason. Pct should consist of clomid until your next cycle so you never experience low t. In that case
12.5mg daily is plenty. And when you come off raise it for four weeks to 25 mg maybe 50 mg for a week or
Two but than drop it to 12.5 and stay on it until the next cycle

 

[beesknees]

My clomid is lost in transit and seller has stopped talking to me. I got taken

 

[greekgeorge]

Sorry to hear man. Luckily it's the easiest to obtain. Do your research....

 

[beesknees]

I think he just put the wrong address and now doesnt wanna deal with Canada post. The parcels looping between two cities...
I got a appointment with a integrative medicine doctor that specializes in hormones on Monday so i am gonna just try and get a script

 

[beesknees]

Thanks for all the info. Ill keep you guys posted

 

[dvw]

Why would you take HCG and Clomid?

 

[beesknees]

Why would you take HCG and Clomid?

No one said anything about HCG

 

[greekgeorge]

I use clomid as trt. When I bulk for say 10 weeks the last six to eight I blast a oral. When I do that I use 100iu hcg a day and 12.5mg
Clomid. And 4 to 5 pumps dermacrine .My test levels are very high end of normal now so when I throw in anavar or epistane while on one of the above orals my test doesn't drop below normal values. Even when I injected test I never wanted to go over 200 mg a week. I tried up to 750. I will add other compounds at higher doses. Tren,deca etc. higher doses of test just bloat me and hurt my prostate.

 

[mcc23]

Anabolics: anything dht derivative

Natty: lj100

Boron, no?

 

[mcc23]

Will Clomid as a standalone elevate Test levels enough to promote increases in LBM? Or do we need to be at supraphysiological doses of test?

edit: And are there any ways to avoid the emotional sides that are rather common with dosing Clomid? An AI perhaps?

 

[beesknees]

Wondering the same thing mcc23 just got my clomid in the mail, honestly kinda scared of popping one

 

[dvw]

I have experienced gains on Clomid only. It can double test levels from your current level. I enjoyed 60 day Clomid solo cycle.

 

[mcc23]

I have experienced gains on Clomid only. It can double test levels from your current level. I enjoyed 60 day Clomid solo cycle.

Dose?

 

[dvw]

25 mgs and 12.5 second time

 

[dvw]

Search forum several guys on here have had success running Clomid solo

 

[mcc23]

25 mgs and 12.5 second time

Every day? Did you notice any of the dreaded emotional sides?

 

[beesknees]

I got Nolva and clomid yesterday, decided to take 10 mg Nolva last night. Had some serious morning wood this morning. Apperently Serms especially older ones have cancer and clood clotting isssues as possible side effects. Also they are known to lower igf 1

 

[beesknees]

I was thinking about getting mk677 to combat the lowered igf 1. But the other issues are still there. It seems like using serms as a restart short term would have minimal negative effects. I am a little concerned about long term use. However I am fully aware that I have only seen a few studies and have a very rudimentary understanding of the various actions in the body these compounds have

 

[dvw]

Only nolvedex has shown to lower igf1 and serm's are prescribed for breast cancer they don't cause cancer bud.

 

[beesknees]

Just because something is prescribed to treat cancer doesn't mean it can't cause another type of cancer. Also ill repeat I am no expert but it a quick google search shows several studies indicating clomid also lowers igf 1

 

[CatSnake]

Only nolvedex has shown to lower igf1 and serm's are prescribed for breast cancer they don't cause cancer bud.

pretty much all SERMs and AI's lower IGF1.

"Another consequence of SERM estrogen agonist action in the liver is suppression of IGF-1 production. IGF-1 is a systemic hormone responsible for whole body anabolism and it is produced in the liver under the positive influence of growth hormone, as well as other hormones such as insulin, thyroid hormone, and androgens. Estrogens on the other hand suppress IGF-1 production in the liver. In a recent study* it was directly demonstrated that administration of either tamoxifen or raloxifene to males increased LH and testosterone levels (as expected). However they also significantly reduced circulating IGF-1 production. Given the fact that it is well demonstrated that exogenous administration of testosterone increases IGF-1 levels in the blood you begin to see that this may be a big part of the SERM testosterone mystery. Systemic IGF-1 levels may not do much for contractile muscle tissue growth but they can lead to overall body composition changes and increases in bodyweight. The difference between the suppressed IGF-1 state (compared to control) of the SERM user to the heightened IGF-1 state (compared to control) of the exogenous testosterone user may indeed be quite profound."

http://patrickarnoldblog.com/serms-as-an-alternative-to-testosterone-replacement-therapy/

 

[CatSnake]

Will Clomid as a standalone elevate Test levels enough to promote increases in LBM? Or do we need to be at supraphysiological doses of test?

edit: And are there any ways to avoid the emotional sides that are rather common with dosing Clomid? An AI perhaps?

most people that get emotional sides from clomid are taking too much.... I don't recall ever hearing of a guy having issues with 25 mg/day or less. and btw, 25 mg/day is the dose that used in nearly every clinical study, as well....


as far as gains are concerned, I think the closer your testosterone levels gets to the higher range means the gains are more pronounced...

 

[CatSnake]

Taking clomid on cycle reduces suppression similarly to hcg. It's not widely done but if you look around you will find that some people do it.

no, it doesn't.

clomid doesn't act like LH does, which is what HCG does. it simply blocks the estrogen receptor in certain tissues....

I've seen several people try this, and their bloodwork showed that it did not work at all.

 

[mcc23]

no, it doesn't.

clomid doesn't act like LH does, which is what HCG does. it simply blocks the estrogen receptor in certain tissues....

I've seen several people try this, and their bloodwork showed that it did not work at all.

My understanding is that Clomid attaches to the E receptors in the hypothalamus. It senses a reduction in real E, so to compensate it stimulates the pituitary to pump out LH, so the Leydig cells in the testes pump out more T, with hopes that it will aromatize into E as a means to restore the deficiency.

 

[CatSnake]

My understanding is that Clomid attaches to the E receptors in the hypothalamus. It senses a reduction in real E, so to compensate it stimulates the pituitary to pump out LH, so the Leydig cells in the testes pump out more T, with hopes that it will aromatize into E as a means to restore the deficiency.

no, that doesn't work.

you still have the negative feedback mechanism of the increased testosterone, which is at supraphysiological levels. your body will recognize that testosterone levels are already high since it has bound to the androgen receptors. worst case scenario, your body will actually increase production of aromatase enzyme so it can convert some of the excess testosterone into estrogen.

if taking a SERM worked like that, then taking an AI to crash E2 levels would work as well. it doesn't.

if you don't believe me, then go ahead and try it....

 

[mcc23]

no, that doesn't work.

you still have the negative feedback mechanism of the increased testosterone, which is at supraphysiological levels. your body will recognize that testosterone levels are already high since it has bound to the androgen receptors. worst case scenario, your body will actually increase production of aromatase enzyme so it can convert some of the excess testosterone into estrogen.

if taking a SERM worked like that, then taking an AI to crash E2 levels would work as well. it doesn't.

if you don't believe me, then go ahead and try it....

I didn't think any dose of Clomid is enough to get someone to supraphysiological levels of T. And by Supraphysiological i mean whats possible to maximally be produced by the body. Not just what's above "normal" for someone

 

[CatSnake]

I didn't think any dose of Clomid is enough to get someone to supraphysiological levels of T. And by Supraphysiological i mean whats possible to maximally be produced by the body. Not just what's above "normal" for someone

sighh....


do you understand that my quote was referring to using clomid on a cycle, right?

 

[mcc23]

sighh....


do you understand that my quote was referring to using clomid on a cycle, right?

My apologies, I misread

 

[mcc23]

sighh....


do you understand that my quote was referring to using clomid on a cycle, right?

So you're asserting that the use of Clomid on cycle will not mitigate or eliminate the normal reduction in endogenous T or LH? That makes sense.

 

[CatSnake]

So you're asserting that the use of Clomid on cycle will not mitigate or eliminate the normal reduction in endogenous T or LH? That makes sense.

yup.

I've seen bloodwork of people that have tried, and it was completely unsuccessful.

for off cycle or post cycle it's great, but not while on cycle.

 

[yates84]

Boron, no?

Never looked into it tbh.

 

[yates84]

So you're asserting that the use of Clomid on cycle will not mitigate or eliminate the normal reduction in endogenous T or LH? That makes sense.

Correct. The hpta will remain suppressed as long as there are exogenous hormones in your body activating the androgen receptors.

 

[mcc23]

Correct. The hpta will remain suppressed as long as there are exogenous hormones in your body activating the androgen receptors.

And so by extension, those people who choose to start their PCT very soon (less than the 1-2 week timeframe) after last injection/dose are essentially throwing away money.

I'm essentially reiterating the point you've made already

 

[yates84]

And so by extension, those people who choose to start their PCT very soon (less than the 1-2 week timeframe) after last injection/dose are essentially throwing away money.

I'm essentially reiterating the point you've made already

Depends on compounds used. Orals pct should start the next day. Something with an ester like test enan you will want ro wait 2 weeks for the hormones to clear before starting pct.

 

[beesknees]

Yall kinda hijacked the
thread, I am not a AAS user. I am taking Nolva to boost Test but im concerned with the lowered igf1 though. I was thinking about pairing it up with MK 677, anyone done this?

 

[yates84]

Yall kinda hijacked the
thread, I am not a AAS user. I am taking Nolva to boost Test but im concerned with the lowered igf1 though. I was thinking about pairing it up with MK 677, anyone done this?

Clomid is what you want. Emotional side effects are way over rated imo

 

[beesknees]

I also have Clomid. But WHY is it better/recommended?

 

[beesknees]

Just took 10 mg Nolva for the first time last night. I can defiantly feel it working already. Is the clomid suggestion because it has less of an effect on igf1??

 

[yates84]

I also have Clomid. But WHY is it better/recommended?

Nolva mainly targets estrogen receptors in breast tissue, it has the highest affinity for these specific receptors. Clomid mainly targets ALL estrogen receptors and imo, gets the job done better because of this. Look at doctor prescribed serm trt, it's always clomid and never nolva.

 

[beesknees]

From what I have read based on studies Clomid desensitizes the pituary to GNRH and Nolva does the opposite. Also Clomid seems to raise shbg more than Nolva

 

[yates84]

From what I have read based on studies Clomid desensitizes the pituary to GNRH and Nolva does the opposite. Also Clomid seems to raise shbg more than Nolva

Google nolva trt and see what it gets you while you're at it. Now, google clomid trt

 

[beesknees]

Ok, but just because something is more popular than the other it doesn't mean that it's better or make the studies on GNRH and SHBG invalid...

 

[yates84]

Ok, but just because something is more popular than the other it doesn't mean that it's better or make the studies on GNRH and SHBG invalid...

To what EXTENT do they modulate these? Maybe that should be one of your concerns?

 

[greekgeorge]

Doctors will not prescribe nolvaTo someone with hypogonadism. Now you all are gonna make me dig up bloods. I have to sign up for some patient web portal thing to get them online. I hate technology. I literally just drive back and ask for paper results. Makes them mad but I don't care. I use clomid on cycle but I only ever cycle 7 week compounds. Like anavar or tool. 8 seems to long for the liver six is to short so I do 47 to 50 days typically. I also use hcg at 100 iu daily so it's hard to say if it works. But it literally costs me 12 bucks to run it for 3 months at a time before I need a refil