Chuck Lidell washed up?

[flobot]

I just want to see Fedor finally fight Couture.

And I seriously think that Couture has no chance whatsoever against him. Why?

-Fedor has heavy hands, Randy has good boxing.

-Randy has better takedowns but Fedor is calm, collected and INVINCIBLE in his Guard (which not even a lot of black belt BJJ'ers can say in MMA,) and has simple yet overly effective submissions. (Proven time and time and time again.)

-Fedor has an awesome chin, Randy does not.

-On ground and pound, they're equal but I really can't see Randy Couture overwhelming Fedor w/ strikes.

-Fedor cuts easily, and Couture, knowing this fact, might pull what I'd like to call a "Gonzaga" on him and start mashing Fedor's face w/ his head. (Seriously, Gonzaga & Couture were DEAD EVEN in their fight BEFORE Couture took him down and Drove his bald head into Gonzaga's nose. Anybody who gets their nose so crushed like that [w/ momentum, weight et. technique] will not be fighting like normal.

-Finally, Fedor is Stone Cold. I just don't think he can be beaten as of now (just like Anderson Silva can't be beaten at LHW and GSP[now] can't be beaten at WW.)

 

[Emerge]

If you think Couture really has zero chance of winning why would it be an enjoyable match? Just to watch him get beat up? Lol.

I heavily favor Fedor, but you never know... it is MMA and.. it is Randy.

 

[robdog]

To prove he is the best POUND for POUND. He can prove he is the best HW by beating up everyone in the HW, but that alone does not merit a best pound for pound.

It's the same reason boxers move up and down weight classes to gather belts. It's the same reason Silva moved up to 205 to beat Irving. Just to challenge yourself all that much more. I think Fedor has the skill set to be dominant in LHW, but we won't know for sure unless he does. Until he does, it's all theory.

You clearly dont understand what pound for pound means. Fedor has dominated the HW division more decisively than any other fighter has dominated any division in the history of the sport. And who moves DOWN in weight looking for new challenges? Normally people drop down a weight class if they are struggling in their current division. If they want a new challenge, normally they move up a class.

 

[robdog]

If Fedor cut down to 205 he would gas after the second round and ppl will get wins over him easy.
I think its best he stay at HW.

I want to know what lhw you think would beat him.

 

[somewhatgifted]

If Fedor cut down to 205 he would gas after the second round and ppl will get wins over him easy.
I think its best he stay at HW.

Fedor pushes the pace, brings the fight and doesnt stop all fight long (usually not long). I dont see how that would change if he were slimmer.

 

[somewhatgifted]

Ive always pondered what makes a man better never being beaten or being beaten and coming back better. Fans rarely embrace an undisputed champion and blame a weak division or era in the said sport. Is it better to go 14-0 or 35-1? Fedor seems to have unprecedented support and i think his explosive intense style warrant it much like tysons did in boxing.

Pound for pound thats a different story IMO its not so much about a career but what a fighter is like now or atleast more recently. I think its between fedor silva BJ and GSP all insane in their own rights. Comparing them is like comparing a wrestler BJJ and brawler in a way with differing styles. Fedor does anything he wants because if insane power and stregth, Bj does things effortlessly and seemlessly with amazing technique, GSP does both. Silva Needs to meet someone more his equal atleast some kind of test, but thus far has proven to be the P for P in my mind with absolute uncontested destruction of all comers.

 

[DaTruthMMA]

:blink: You say it definitively when there's no proof. Fedor's never had any conditioning issues and I doubt that he would cut from 230. He'd probably drop some weight in training before the cut. It's irrelevant anyway as he wouldn't drop down to 205.

True, I guess I'm just assuming since some fighters have had problems cutting down or going up. Even the best conditioning can lead you to gas, i.e. Hendo dropping back down to MW against Silva, he gassed.

BJ Penn gassing. It happens. Yeah, I doubt Fedor would drop, but if he did it would be insane to see him destroy LHW division. However, I think he would have trouble against Jackson, Machida, and Evans.

 

[DaTruthMMA]

I want to know what lhw you think would beat him.

Jackson, Machida, Evans.

 

[DaTruthMMA]

Fedor pushes the pace, brings the fight and doesnt stop all fight long (usually not long). I dont see how that would change if he were slimmer.

Exactly why I feel that he would gas because cutting would work against him in that he would have to work harder to keep up the pace he usually goes by in HW.
Fedor is a great fighter, I think he would just be best at HW.

 

[Emerge]

You clearly dont understand what pound for pound means. Fedor has dominated the HW division more decisively than any other fighter has dominated any division in the history of the sport. And who moves DOWN in weight looking for new challenges? Normally people drop down a weight class if they are struggling in their current division. If they want a new challenge, normally they move up a class.

Ok, thanks for making me understand what pound for pound means.

I understand that most fighters move up a weight class to find a new challange, but there is no weight class for fedor to move up to. If he moved down, he would face better compeition though. Easily, the LHW are more athletic than the HWs that is a no brainer. They might present new challenges for him to deal with.

 

[jas123]

True, I guess I'm just assuming since some fighters have had problems cutting down or going up. Even the best conditioning can lead you to gas, i.e. Hendo dropping back down to MW against Silva, he gassed.

BJ Penn gassing. It happens. Yeah, I doubt Fedor would drop, but if he did it would be insane to see him destroy LHW division. However, I think he would have trouble against Jackson, Machida, and Evans.

Hendo didn't gas. He got put on queer street by Silva then choked when he was only semi-coherent.

 

[Rodja]

BJ gassed because he didn't dedicate himself to getting into proper condition. Fedor has adipose that he could drop and he is only about 230, which is about the same weight as Tito, Forrest, etc. Their has never been a fighter dominate his weight-class like Fedor, which makes him the best P4P fighter despite the fact that he is a HW. GSP has lost 2x decisively, BJ has lost decisively, Andy, Forrest, etc. The only other fighter that has had near the success during his career is Noguier, but Fedor GnP'd him 2x.

 

[flobot]

I might sound like a fanboy but Fedor seems invincible at HW. I can't think of anyone that can overpower or outskill him. His technique is uber dangerous because of his strength which is so deceptive because he just looks like an average fat bum. I bet he can arm bar all of us here with one arm.

BJ gassed because he didn't dedicate himself to getting into proper condition. Fedor has adipose that he could drop and he is only about 230, which is about the same weight as Tito, Forrest, etc. Their has never been a fighter dominate his weight-class like Fedor, which makes him the best P4P fighter despite the fact that he is a HW. GSP has lost 2x decisively, BJ has lost decisively, Andy, Forrest, etc. The only other fighter that has had near the success during his career is Noguier, but Fedor GnP'd him 2x.

 

[somewhatgifted]

BJ gassed because he didn't dedicate himself to getting into proper condition. Fedor has adipose that he could drop and he is only about 230, which is about the same weight as Tito, Forrest, etc. Their has never been a fighter dominate his weight-class like Fedor, which makes him the best P4P fighter despite the fact that he is a HW. GSP has lost 2x decisively, BJ has lost decisively, Andy, Forrest, etc. The only other fighter that has had near the success during his career is Noguier, but Fedor GnP'd him 2x.

Rodja do you think the current status of these fighters is more important or the careers when considering P 4 P ? take fedor out of the equation then who do you like next? I think the fedor argument is sound hes in a class all his own but after that what who do you think is the P 4 P?

 

[Rodja]

Rodja do you think the current status of these fighters is more important or the careers when considering P 4 P ? take fedor out of the equation then who do you like next? I think the fedor argument is sound hes in a class all his own but after that what who do you think is the P 4 P?

I like GSP as #2 for P4P and I think an overall career record and growth as a fighter is paramount. GSP's wrestling has reached an elite status, which has enabled him to dictate the pace and position of the fight.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I like GSP as #2 for P4P and I think an overall career record and growth as a fighter is paramount. GSP's wrestling has reached an elite status, which has enabled him to dictate the pace and position of the fight.

Agreed; which is why I think he will decisively win GSP/Penn II (if it occurs), rather than eek out an arguable decision.

 

[Rodja]

Agreed; which is why I think he will decisively win GSP/Penn II (if it occurs), rather than eek out an arguable decision.

I haven't decided who I think will win this one. I like both of them as fighters because they are always entertaining and trying to finish the fight, but can't decide who I want to win or who I think will win.

 

[Emerge]

Personally, the way I define the best P4P, I think the best P4P fighter means a fighter that at any given weight would be the best. That a 155 pound fighter would be the best all the way up to 205, if he was REALLY P4P the best. But, I don't want to take away from all of what Fedor has done. Yes, he is amazing yes he is obviously the best, and no I don't really see anyone beating him. But, there will always be doubt in my mind that a more athletic guy could possibly beat him.

Henderson made his plea for the best P4P, and at some point in time maybe he was.

 

[robdog]

Personally, the way I define the best P4P, I think the best P4P fighter means a fighter that at any given weight would be the best. That a 155 pound fighter would be the best all the way up to 205, if he was REALLY P4P the best. But, I don't want to take away from all of what Fedor has done. Yes, he is amazing yes he is obviously the best, and no I don't really see anyone beating him. But, there will always be doubt in my mind that a more athletic guy could possibly beat him.

Henderson made his plea for the best P4P, and at some point in time maybe he was.

P4P best means the most skilled fighter relative to their size/weight class. Not which fighters could move up or down in weight and do the best in other weight divisions.

 

[Emerge]

Since there is no textbook definition, there is no definitive way of answering that question. And, like I said. my definition differs from the norm I see. That is fine. What you are describing is just the best fighter in his division. Which is just saying he is the best HW.

I hope you see, that debating opinion is futile unless backed up by compelling arguments.

 

[robdog]

Since there is no textbook definition, there is no definitive way of answering that question. And, like I said. my definition differs from the norm I see. That is fine. What you are describing is just the best fighter in his division. Which is just saying he is the best HW.

I hope you see, that debating opinion is futile unless backed up by compelling arguments.

Its not opinion, there IS a definition of what P4P means and you just dont get it. But you're right, arguing with you is futile because youve shown in almost every post of yours that you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[jas123]

P4P means shrink or enlarge every fighter to same weightclass and figure out who would win. There's been a lot of not getting it around here lately.

 

[Emerge]

P4P means shrink or enlarge every fighter to same weightclass and figure out who would win. There's been a lot of not getting it around here lately.

Fedor does not need to shrink to fight at 205 though. And, THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. He CAN fight at 205 so lets see if he can beat everyone there too.

Jesus, ****ing christ Rob get the **** off my nuts already. What are you the MMA general? So certain are you? Your credibility stems from what? Because you agree with the majority? I have a different opinion, and if you honestly think I don't know anything about what I'm talking about... then you are contradicting yourself by trying to make me see it your way. Seriously.

 

[Rodja]

Fedor does not need to shrink to fight at 205 though. And, THAT is exactly what I'm talking about. He CAN fight at 205 so lets see if he can beat everyone there too.

Jesus, ****ing christ Rob get the **** off my nuts already. What are you the MMA general? So certain are you? Your credibility stems from what? Because you agree with the majority? I have a different opinion, and if you honestly think I don't know anything about what I'm talking about... then you are contradicting yourself by trying to make me see it your way. Seriously.

What incentive is there for him to fight at 205lbs/93kg? People ***** about him not fighting top HWs, then he dismantles Sylvia (top-5). Now people challenge his status as the P4P king because he won't drop down to LHW. There has never been a time when a fighter drops a weight class when he has never lost at his current weight.

 

[Emerge]

The incentive is fighting people with more athletic abilities than at his current division. I'm not saying he hasn't fought top HW's. He has. I'm not saying he hasn't fought top opposition, because he clearly has. I'm saying that he has immense athletic ability for his size and division. We can all agree on that, right?

Now, I understand that a fighter never has dropped a weight class when he never lost at his current weight. But, so what? Just because it has never been done before, does not mean it wouldn't be something that could spark interest.

I'm saying, challenge the Status Quo and go against the grain. Explore the possibilities of different fights.

Read at what I posted before, I'm not saying he definitely isn't the P4P best fighter. I'm simply saying that there is a little room for doubt with all the other fighters mentioned GSP, BJ, ASilva.

I just want the question fancied, why not try dropping a weight class? Why can't it be considered that the LHW's (who are still pretty powerful in their own right) could make some exciting fights with Fedor?

Like I said, all I am saying is that we should consider thinking beyond the scope of what we have seen before. I'm not saying that we need to have BJ move up every single weight class up to the HW's to prove his place in P4P, but one class up might suffice. What about GSP fighting ASilva at 185, would that not be exciting?

I the reason you oppose the question is just because most of the time, fighters move up. However, what's to say a fighter can't move down?

Try to base your response on the questions at hand rather than just insulting me or my thoughts.

 

[somewhatgifted]

I thought pound for pound refered to the "bang for the buck" aspect. meaning effectiveness for the given weight, a fighter who is larger with the same stats as a smaller fighter would lose the pound for pound on the basis that it took him more mass/size to do so.
It seems impractical to imagine all fighters at the same size weight due to body frame, density and height.
It is rare to see a HW P4P bc they are obviously larger and typically there is an equally smaller fighter with similar stats who i would give the edge to since they did it with less mass. And on that principle it seems that due to the unique nature of fedor he may have changed the rule. Its unlikely you would ever see a 250+ P4P due to the likelyhood of an equally impressive smaller fighter.
Put em up chuck!

 

[Endgame007]

Chuck should not keep his hands down ever.

 

[flobot]

Arlovski I think would put up a decent stand up fight vs. Fedor. But once it gets to the ground it's over.

I really can't think of any HW that can match Fedor right now. He's just too complete. I think the best P4P fighter in the world is Manny Pacquiao hahaha but in MMA I think it's Anderson Silva.

If for example, BJ Penn moves up in weight and fights Silva, he'll be a bit slower than he is now in terms of striking. Same goes for GSP. If Silva moves down in weight and fights those two, Silva becomes faster...Can you guys imagine an even Faster Silva? Really?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Arlovski I think would put up a decent stand up fight vs. Fedor. But once it gets to the ground it's over.

I really can't think of any HW that can match Fedor right now. He's just too complete. I think the best P4P fighter in the world is Manny Pacquiao hahaha but in MMA I think it's Anderson Silva.

If for example, BJ Penn moves up in weight and fights Silva, he'll be a bit slower than he is now in terms of striking. Same goes for GSP. If Silva moves down in weight and fights those two, Silva becomes faster...Can you guys imagine an even Faster Silva? Really?

It isn't just speed that is affected, though: Strength, stamina, explosiveness and so on all factor into weight changes.

GSP also walks around at ~190 currently, so I doubt he would lose too much speed at ~180; BJ has fought as high as 205 before (Machida).,

 

[jas123]

My brothers friend partied with Chuck Liddell last weekend when he was in his town for the Husker-Mizzou game (he hosts an MMA radio show). Chuck was snorting lines at the party and there were hookers there. :head:

 

[Emerge]

Lmao.

Well, no wonder dude gets his ass beat. I heard that he liked to party, but I didn't think he liked to party like that. Hookers, lol.

 

[flobot]

Wow, didn't know Chuck's like that. Acting like a playa...that's why fighter money never last too long (I don't have to name examples, look at boxers like Mike Tyson who had a worth of 350M before+ earning 25-35M A FIGHT. Now what? He probably has 350K if so in his bank.)

 

[Rodja]

My brothers friend partied with Chuck Liddell last weekend when he was in his town for the Husker-Mizzou game (he hosts an MMA radio show). Chuck was snorting lines at the party and there were hookers there. :head:

My BJJ instructor had a similar story about him.

 

[Emerge]

Do share...

 

[Rodja]

Do share...

Pretty much the same story. He was at a hotel where Chuck was staying and Chuck was doing some major partying. Apparently, he was doing lines and starting running around yelling that he couldn't get it up.

 

[flobot]

If you guys were fighters and had say 1 million dollars, would you guys splurge it on drugs like Coke, crack, etc.?

 

[somewhatgifted]

Well if you spend like your rich, you wont be rich for long...

 

[Emerge]

I don't do drugs now, why do them when I'm rich? Has that dude ever even been married?

 

[flobot]

I don't know..as of know, even somebody like Tito Ortiz has more business sense than him.. Does he have his own iceman training camp?

 

[Rodja]

I don't know..as of know, even somebody like Tito Ortiz has more business sense than him.. Does he have his own iceman training camp?

No, he trains under John Hackleman and The Pit.

 

[robdog]

No, he trains under John Hackleman and The Pit.

Who doesnt know some basic ass **** like that? Seriously if you dont even know some basic **** then do your research before plaguing the forum.

 

[flobot]

Wow roid rage here. Sorry to hurt your feelings fanboy but I never was a fan of Chuck Lidell and I could care less where he trains or if he has his own gym. I'm just asking because we were talking about business and if he has one. So chill and gtf off my back.

Who doesnt know some basic ass **** like that? Seriously if you dont even know some basic **** then do your research before plaguing the forum.

 

[Rodja]

Wow roid rage here. Sorry to hurt your feelings fanboy but I never was a fan of Chuck Lidell and I could care less where he trains or if he has his own gym. I'm just asking because we were talking about business and if he has one. So chill and gtf off my back.

Acting like a casual MMA fan (aka a TUFer) makes you a fanboy. Chuck has trained with Hackleman for years now.

 

[flobot]

Casual MMA fan? I've been training MT since I was 11. I'm blue belt in BJJ (Carlson Gracie Jr.), I'm black belt in kyokushinkai. I've been to Afghanistan attached to the PPLI (I'm from 1 MPU-Military Police)

I don't ****ing care how long Chuck's been training there or whoever the **** Hackleman is. Just because I'm fighting a ****ing war overseas during Chuck's prime doesn't make me a fan boy.

I've busted tons of punks like you guys down to your respective levels. Just because you know your MMA history doesn't make you a true "Fighter."

So next time, before you talk, try serving your country first and come back after a year. Let's see how many MMA 'facts' you miss out on.

 

[Rodja]

Casual MMA fan? I've been training MT since I was 11. I'm blue belt in BJJ (Carlson Gracie Jr.), I'm black belt in kyokushinkai. I've been to Afghanistan attached to the PPLI (I'm from 1 MPU-Military Police)

I don't ****ing care how long Chuck's been training there or whoever the **** Hackleman is. Just because I'm fighting a ****ing war overseas during Chuck's prime doesn't make me a fan boy.

I've busted tons of punks like you guys down to your respective levels. Just because you know your MMA history doesn't make you a true "Fighter."

Except for that whole actual fighting professionally part.

A little hypocrisy here as well since you popped off at Rob for roid-rage.

 

[flobot]

My apologies. Just trying to make a point.

 

[robdog]

Casual MMA fan? I've been training MT since I was 11. I'm blue belt in BJJ (Carlson Gracie Jr.), I'm black belt in kyokushinkai. I've been to Afghanistan attached to the PPLI (I'm from 1 MPU-Military Police)

I don't ****ing care how long Chuck's been training there or whoever the **** Hackleman is. Just because I'm fighting a ****ing war overseas during Chuck's prime doesn't make me a fan boy.

I've busted tons of punks like you guys down to your respective levels. Just because you know your MMA history doesn't make you a true "Fighter."

So next time, before you talk, try serving your country first and come back after a year. Let's see how many MMA 'facts' you miss out on.

"Busted punks like you guys down to your respective levels."
Hilarious, especially coming from a little fat dude.

 

[flobot]

And you actualy think you're big? Hahahahaha 6'3" 220 lbs.? You're Nothing. You're not even a soldier. I've had to deal with green punks that are twice your size since everybody hates us MPs.

You're Nothing. **** punks like you that think size is everything don't even survive boot camp.

"Busted punks like you guys down to your respective levels."
Hilarious, especially coming from a little fat dude.

 

[robdog]

And you actualy think you're big? Hahahahaha 6'3" 220 lbs.? You're Nothing. You're not even a soldier. I've had to deal with green punks that are twice your size since everybody hates us MPs.

You're Nothing. **** punks like you that think size is everything don't even survive boot camp.

Im not even a soldier? Quit using your service as a crutch and go throw some dust in somebody's eyes you little Chong Li looking asshat.

 

[flobot]

Haha now we're gonna play the race card you trash?

What have YOU done for your country?? 'Nuff said.