Chiropractic / Musculoskeletal / Joint pain Q & A...

[drinkyboy]

Dr. Scott, I had arthoscopic surgery on my knee about 10 years ago due to a meniscus injury. They fixed it and cleaned up the cartilage a bit and ever since then, I have had an achy knee. I have tried everything and nothing works for it. I have just learned to live with it for the most part and lost all hope of it ever feeling better. I have tried ibuprofen, glucosamine chondroitin, fish oil, numerous joint support supplements and so on. Do you have any roccomendations as to what else I could do to eleviate the constant pain? I also was diagnosed with IT Band syndrom recently and think that may have been caused by my injury or atleast played a factor. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated doc.

 

[celc5]

Who diagnosed IT band syndrome? What are you doing to address it? And where is your pain exactly?

Btw,No intent of stepping on your toes Scotty Just playing along :cheers:

 

[ScottyDoc]

Dr. Scott, I had arthoscopic surgery on my knee about 10 years ago due to a meniscus injury. They fixed it and cleaned up the cartilage a bit and ever since then, I have had an achy knee. I have tried everything and nothing works for it. I have just learned to live with it for the most part and lost all hope of it ever feeling better. I have tried ibuprofen, glucosamine chondroitin, fish oil, numerous joint support supplements and so on. Do you have any roccomendations as to what else I could do to eleviate the constant pain? I also was diagnosed with IT Band syndrom recently and think that may have been caused by my injury or atleast played a factor. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated doc.

Well, it is possible that the IT band played a role in your injury, and it is possible that it is continuing to play a role now, really hard to determine 100% to be honest. There are a few tests, but to be honest, they are not all that easy without someone who kind of knows what they are doing... I will list a few and you can look them up on the internet, will probably find a better explanation and possibly a picture of even a youtube video or something describing how to do them and what to look for, but here goes:
1) Nobles Test
2) Ober's Test
3) Iliotibial Syndrome Test
I would say if you pass all three of these tests, which are only slight variations of one another, then it would be fairly safe to say it is not currently your IT band at least. If it is your IT Band, again there are some really good stretches on youtube, but also I recommend some good deep muscle massage therapy, can't say you will enjoy it, will probably hurt like a MF, but will make a world of difference if that is indeed your problem.

The only other recommendations I would have made, but you beat me to the punch as in you have already tried them is the Chondroitin, Glucosamine, & MSM along wish fish oils (omega 3-6-9, EFA's) I don't really know what else to say. Have you gone back and spoken to your surgeon about this? I mean, he has access to your x-rays, MRI's, he is the one who went in there and saw it all personally, I would love to hear his thoughts on this to help make a better conclusion. Sorry to say, but that is about all I have for ya, other than one more question... what do you do on a regular basis exercise-wise to improve it... strength, ROM, flexibility?

 

[drinkyboy]

Thanks for addressing my problem. My doctor sent me to a physical therapist a few months back and thats when i was diagnosed with ITBS. I roll on my hard foam roller 2x a day for my hip flexors, IT band and quads and do RF/TFL stretches, lunge stretches and seated 90's. I can manage my IT band, its just the darn pain in my knee. Phys therapist said the meniscus injuries rarely return to normal after surgery. Its never really quite the same she says. I refuse to live on pain meds or anit-inflammatory meds by all means, so I guess I just have to talk to my doc again or suck it up. Thank you for your input doc.

 

[drinkyboy]

And I forgot to mention that I went to phys therapy for my IT band when I addressed my knee problem. I did phys therapy after my surgery also but went into the military after that, and anyone who is currently serveing or a vet will tell you that the docs are nothing to brag about. That is why I took some years to get REAL help from REAL doctors.

 

[ScottyDoc]

And I forgot to mention that I went to phys therapy for my IT band when I addressed my knee problem. I did phys therapy after my surgery also but went into the military after that, and anyone who is currently serveing or a vet will tell you that the docs are nothing to brag about. That is why I took some years to get REAL help from REAL doctors.

Damn... Sorry to hear that, I have heard that about a lot of the doctors in the military... weird too, you think they would be really good, but I have heard a few butcher stories as well. I wish there was more I cold tell you or do for you, but minus the pain meds and anti-inflammatories, etc. PT is the best thing you can be doing for it to keep it from getting worse. As far as getting back to 100%, very true that is rare, but to live with constant aggravating pain for the rest of your life doesn't sound right either, so there must be something. I might not have the answer for you, but I would not give up and I will continue to do a little more research on meniscus injuries and recoveries, etc. on my own as well, see what I can't dig up for you!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Who diagnosed IT band syndrome? What are you doing to address it? And where is your pain exactly?

Btw,No intent of stepping on your toes Scotty Just playing along :cheers:

Don't worry bro, I don't mind at all. I have met quite a few people on here that are easily as knowledgable as myself, so by all means, chip in!

 

[celc5]

Drinky, do the TFL stretches give you any relief?

 

[drinkyboy]

They do because my IT problem has caused me to have a tight hip flexor. My range of motion has improved and the throbbing in my thigh while seated has eased up quite a bit. It gets pretty bad if I dont do that stretch...it will tighted up all the way up to my buttox. It also helps to roll on a tennis ball on my butt cheek also to relieve the tension. Hurts like a mofo, but very effective in my experience. I use to not be able to squat for some time, but since doing some stretches and such, im back to squatting. I can def tell a difference. Liniment works wonders also, which I apply pre workout and post.

 

[ScottyDoc]

They do because my IT problem has caused me to have a tight hip flexor. My range of motion has improved and the throbbing in my thigh while seated has eased up quite a bit. It gets pretty bad if I dont do that stretch...it will tighted up all the way up to my buttox. It also helps to roll on a tennis ball on my butt cheek also to relieve the tension. Hurts like a mofo, but very effective in my experience. I use to not be able to squat for some time, but since doing some stretches and such, im back to squatting. I can def tell a difference. Liniment works wonders also, which I apply pre workout and post.

I would really look into some really good deep tissue massage on the TFL. Also, I've met a few really good massage therapists that will incorporate PNF stretching with their massage, that is really awesome!

 

[drinkyboy]

The wife and I were just talking about getting massages...we are both well past due for one. Thanks doc for the insight.

 

[chunkymon]

Doctor Scott, this is really generous of you. I’ve been perusing AM for several months now and became a member a couple months ago but have never posted. Up until your offer I was just content soaking up all the info and learning as much as I can.

Anyhow, maybe you might be able to help me with a minor issue I have with my shoulders. I first noticed it a few years ago when swimming under water. I feel and hear a crepitus-like sensation in both shoulders when I’m swimming under water. Up until recently this wasn’t noticeable other than in the pool. And It is becoming more intense and annoying as time goes by. Now I can put my hand over my shoulder while I rotate the joint and feel some minor crackling and little popping. There’s usually no pain and I can’t hear anything. It’s only a sensation at this point. However I do have a habit of hurting one of my shoulders in the gym on occasion. It heals in a few days with rest. The shoulder injuries appear to correlate to intense shoulder isolation exercises either before or after inadequate rest between other upper body core workouts.

Thanks so much for any suggestions or thoughts. Appreciated.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Doctor Scott, this is really generous of you. I’ve been perusing AM for several months now and became a member a couple months ago but have never posted. Up until your offer I was just content soaking up all the info and learning as much as I can.

Anyhow, maybe you might be able to help me with a minor issue I have with my shoulders. I first noticed it a few years ago when swimming under water. I feel and hear a crepitus-like sensation in both shoulders when I’m swimming under water. Up until recently this wasn’t noticeable other than in the pool. And It is becoming more intense and annoying as time goes by. Now I can put my hand over my shoulder while I rotate the joint and feel some minor crackling and little popping. There’s usually no pain and I can’t hear anything. It’s only a sensation at this point. However I do have a habit of hurting one of my shoulders in the gym on occasion. It heals in a few days with rest. The shoulder injuries appear to correlate to intense shoulder isolation exercises either before or after inadequate rest between other upper body core workouts.

Thanks so much for any suggestions or thoughts. Appreciated.

OK, just so you know you are not in front of me, I can't exactly get a full history, definitely can't see any x-rays or perform any necessary orthopedics tests, but I will do my best from what you are telling me.

I need some more past history about sports you may have played, anything upper body intensive to explain what sounds to me like scar tissue that has built up in your shoulders. Almost all weight lifters, football players, baseball players, and other upper body dominant athletes that have been doing what they do for any extensive length of time (approx. 5-10yrs).

If it is not causing any pain I would not be so worried that it is making a sound or that there is scar tissue in there (most common reason for crepitus sounds in a joint). I would just know that there has been some wear & tear in that area of your body and you need to warm it up properly, even before swimming, stretch it once it is warm, do strengthening exercises for your rotator cuff muscles, and if there is any soreness or you believe it has been sprained/strained then you want to ice immediately after.

Answer my above Q (more about past history) and let me know if you are still feeling the crepitus as well as hearing it even after warming up properly, not during warm-up, will probably always hear it then (only surgery can get rid of scar tissue, which is what I believe it is).

 

[ScottyDoc]

Chunkymon,

Hey bro, check out this other thread I had started a few months back it was specifically about shoulder injuries, the thread has kind of died, but there is quite a bit of information that is right up your alley if you read through it... http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/156027-shoulder-injuries.html

 

[chunkymon]

Thanks Dr. Scott. And I completely understand the limitations of this communication in regards to anything along the lines of diagnosis or treatment. What you have given is great and much appreciated.

In regards to my hx. I have been involved in athletics most of my life but this involvement was primarily lower body movements and nothing really upper body intensive. I played soccer for about 25 years continuously and did things like long distant running. I did play a lot of basketball and a year of football but that was all in my teens. And I golf and will play any sport I have a chance to do like racquetball or water polo. I just like sports but I’ve never really done anything upper body intensive, just mess around. I’m 36 now. My intuition tells me this shoulder “weirdness” is related to lifting which I began seriously about ten years ago albeit I went through significant periods without visiting the gym d/t school, fam, life stuff. But I have been hitting the gym hard for the last 8 months and this seems to correlate.

I should say that I never lift cold and always do cardio until I have a good sweat going which is anywhere between 30 and 40 minutes and I try to involve upper body movement during this warm up period. I love to row for example. Then I’ll lift for about 40 minutes and cool down in steam room. But I hadn’t thought to warm up before swimming. My swimming usually involves taking my little daughter to various hot springs pools around where I live so I’ve never really thought about warming up since I’m just soaking or playing with kid.

After warmup. I won’t visit the gym again until tomorrow but I’ve decided to take a week off of upper body movements to rest up before a new training program. I’ll just be doing cardio. But from recollection, the crepitus and sensation is still present after warm up.

I just noticed your other post with the link. I’ll check it out now. Just wanted to respond to your info and question. Thanks again for your time.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Thanks Dr. Scott. And I completely understand the limitations of this communication in regards to anything along the lines of diagnosis or treatment. What you have given is great and much appreciated.

Anytime Bro, this is why I posted this to help people the best way I can. I can't heal/fix people's problems from my laptop, but I can definitely give sound, non-biased advice that can help individuals on their way to recovery. Besides, helping others is what I love to do, it makes me happy and I'm good at it (not conceited, just saying it is easy to be good at something you love and are passionate about). My passion is knowledge on the human body and using that knowledge to help people!

 

[celc5]

helping others is what I love to do, it makes me happy and I'm good at it (not conceited, just saying it is easy to be good at something you love and are passionate about). My passion is knowledge on the human body and using that knowledge to help people!

I understand completely. You get instant gratification every day. Most jobs aren't like that.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Wakey... wakey... Hands off the Snakey!!! Where are my Questions?

 

[StackedCop]

Haha! Thanks for bumping this!

rib subluxation- any tips on getting these ****ers back into place on your own? The ribs near my shoulder blade pop out of place all the time and for the most part I can just roll on a dumbbell and they pop back in. Some times I need to go see my chiropractor... This last time I had to go see my chiro and he got good adjustment but as soon as I got home they popped out.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Haha! Thanks for bumping this!

rib subluxation- any tips on getting these ****ers back into place on your own? The ribs near my shoulder blade pop out of place all the time and for the most part I can just roll on a dumbbell and they pop back in. Some times I need to go see my chiropractor... This last time I had to go see my chiro and he got good adjustment but as soon as I got home they popped out.

That is a good question, hard to answer though! See the adjustment is like 2nd nature to me, so easy, but not something I could really explain over the computer. My personal suggestion is to continue seeing your chiro, safest bet. If you are desperate to not continue using your chiro, there are some pretty good how to videos on YouTube, type in "rib adjustment" just remember it looks easier to do than it really is when you are not use to doing them.

 

[StackedCop]

That is a good question, hard to answer though! See the adjustment is like 2nd nature to me, so easy, but not something I could really explain over the computer. My personal suggestion is to continue seeing your chiro, safest bet. If you are desperate to not continue using your chiro, there are some pretty good how to videos on YouTube, type in "rib adjustment" just remember it looks easier to do than it really is when you are not use to doing them.

My chiro showed me some moves and they ALMOST always work. Last week I swear I must have popped out every rib on my right side. Went for an adjustment since the pain was so god awful and like I said he fixed me up but the popped right back out.

I'll check out the YouTube vids though

My shoulders crack... I mean they crack loud and a lot. I'm sure this is common among weight litters but is there any exercises / stretches I can do so I'm not completely fuc*ed as I get older (23 now) or is the damage done? I take joint support and 10 grams fish oil a day. So far the fish oil is the only supp that seemed to help.

 

[ScottyDoc]

My chiro showed me some moves and they ALMOST always work. Last week I swear I must have popped out every rib on my right side. Went for an adjustment since the pain was so god awful and like I said he fixed me up but the popped right back out.

I'll check out the YouTube vids though

My shoulders crack... I mean they crack loud and a lot. I'm sure this is common among weight litters but is there any exercises / stretches I can do so I'm not completely fuc*ed as I get older (23 now) or is the damage done? I take joint support and 10 grams fish oil a day. So far the fish oil is the only supp that seemed to help.

Go see my other post on Shoulder injuries, read through this and you will see all kinds of help to different shoulder problems including many different exercises, etc.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/156027-shoulder-injuries.html

 

[StackedCop]

I don't know if you're a fan of foam rolling to loosen muscles. *But maybe you could answer this

Should foam rolling be done before or after lifting, if I only have time to do it once? *I'm doing squats today and my hips and hams are tight so I was gonna do some rolling before the gym

 

[RickRock13]

Good info in here. I'm battling back problems right now and the chiropractor is working on me. Sucks big time and I go through this about once per year

 

[ScottyDoc]

I don't know if you're a fan of foam rolling to loosen muscles. *But maybe you could answer this

Should foam rolling be done before or after lifting, if I only have time to do it once? *I'm doing squats today and my hips and hams are tight so I was gonna do some rolling before the gym

First off, excellent question, foam rolling for tight and/or cramping muscles is awesome! I personally think that foam rolling serves it purpose best as a post workout therapy to loosen tight muscles. Pre-workout therapies would be some type of physical activity to raise the body's core temperature and specifically pump more blood to the area/body part preparing to exercise!

 

[StackedCop]

First off, excellent question, foam rolling for tight and/or cramping muscles is awesome! I personally think that foam rolling serves it purpose best as a post workout therapy to loosen tight muscles. Pre-workout therapies would be some type of physical activity to raise the body's core temperature and specifically pump more blood to the area/body part preparing to exercise!

Great advice, as always!

I normally do 5-10 min warm up on stationary bike but yesterday my hams and hips were so tight I decided to a few mins of foam rolling. I was worried the tightness was going to ruin my leg workout and I wanted to insure a good workout. because we all live for leg day, right?!!! Lol anyway, had a good workout and didn't feel as tight but I got 2 reps less on most my squats... Do you think the loss of strength is directly related to the pre workout foam rolling?

My personal chiro says do NOT stretch immediately before lifting. Would you agree? And if so why?

 

[ScottyDoc]

Great advice, as always!

I normally do 5-10 min warm up on stationary bike but yesterday my hams and hips were so tight I decided to a few mins of foam rolling. I was worried the tightness was going to ruin my leg workout and I wanted to insure a good workout. because we all live for leg day, right?!!! Lol anyway, had a good workout and didn't feel as tight but I got 2 reps less on most my squats... Do you think the loss of strength is directly related to the pre workout foam rolling?

My personal chiro says do NOT stretch immediately before lifting. Would you agree? And if so why?

It is possible, but I would blame it on your unusual tightness and/or whatever may have caused you to be abnormally tight to begin with.

Ahaaa... Ahaaa!!!

 

[StackedCop]

It is possible, but I would blame it on your unusual tightness and/or whatever may have caused you to be abnormally tight to begin with.

Holy fast response batman!!

My hams are always tight I just learned about foam rolling and I'm addicted to it! It has loosened up my hams a good amount but they get tight again just as fast. Since I started my SI joint hasn't bothered me nearly as much. I just have to stay on top of this...

 

[ryansm]

First off, excellent question, foam rolling for tight and/or cramping muscles is awesome! I personally think that foam rolling serves it purpose best as a post workout therapy to loosen tight muscles. Pre-workout therapies would be some type of physical activity to raise the body's core temperature and specifically pump more blood to the area/body part preparing to exercise!

Completely agree here^^^

 

[ScottyDoc]

Completely agree here^^^

Thank you sir... You are both a gentleman and a scholar, LOL!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Holy fast response batman!!

My hams are always tight I just learned about foam rolling and I'm addicted to it! It has loosened up my hams a good amount but they get tight again just as fast. Since I started my SI joint hasn't bothered me nearly as much. I just have to stay on top of this...

Definitely a good idea to stay on top of it, but like I said previously, I would look at warming it up differently (sauna/mild cardio for a few mins) and foam roll it after/post workout. For your warm up, just do something that gets you to a point where you are prespiring and you are doing something to actively bring blood to the Hams!

 

[JohnBrinks]

Alright Scott bud? "the great brit here" long time, just popped in to see if you have any advice for my elbows, they crick and crack in every direction, occationaly I have to wingle them just to straighten. It seems to me I have tennis elbow AND golf elbow, they not painfull but just very sticky and a little crunchy, when I try to lock the elbow sometimes I cant because they jam up a little.

Ive stopped lifting weights for 2 months now, I already do:

light wrist flexion with 6kg X 30rep
extension with 3kg x 30 rep
horisontal wrist flexion 3kg X 30 rep
twisting 3kg x 50 rep OR with a broom stick x 2mins

I also stretch my wrists flexed and extended almost every day. They improved a bit the first few weeks but its been about 6 weeks now and if they dont improve more I think I might have to give up weight lifting all together bro! . Im only 27! help!

Ive applied to join the British Army aswell bro so I need all the help I can get, but dont mention it on fb please.


P.S Thanks to you and Bezoe my spine is in the best shape ever these days, nice and straight (Im almost an inch taller sometimes) and that pain on the left side in the rhomboid region hasnt troubled me since, which is a mirracle!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Alright Scott bud? "the GREAT-BRIT here" long time, just popped in to see if you have any advice for my elbows, they crick and crack in every direction, occasionally I have to wiggle them just to straighten. It seems to me I have tennis elbow AND golf elbow, they not painful but just very sticky and a little crunchy, when I try to lock the elbow sometimes I cant because they jam up a little.

I've stopped lifting weights for 2 months now, I already do:

light wrist flexion with 6kg X 30rep
extension with 3kg x 30 rep
horisontal wrist flexion 3kg X 30 rep
twisting 3kg x 50 rep OR with a broom stick x 2mins

I also stretch my wrists flexed and extended almost every day. They improved a bit the first few weeks but its been about 6 weeks now and if they dont improve more I think I might have to give up weight lifting all together bro! . Im only 27! help!

We night need to get Bezoe's help on this one, kind of sounds like joint crepitus..."Definition: Crepitus is a symptom characterized by a crackling or grating feeling or sound under the skin, around the lungs or in the joints. In soft tissues, crepitus is often due to gas, most often air, that has abnormally penetrated and infiltrated an area (for example, in the soft tissues beneath the skin)." I'm not really sure if there is much more you can do about it than you already are doing. I mean it is very common amongst heavy lifters and people in contact sports or people that have been involved in car accidents and severe traumas, etc. All I can really say is if it is not painful, I wouldn't worry so much about it, although I will agree it is kind of young for that to have started already, more common amongst my older patients, mid-thirties and up, not that I consider that old, I'm turning 37 this May 22nd (FYI) and I have it in both shoulders and both elbows, more so in my left shoulder and left elbow, but it only truly concerns me if pain is associated with it, which means inflammation! I would really like to hear Bezoe's opinion on this one, I'll send him a PM with a link.

I've applied to join the British Army as well bro so I need all the help I can get, but dont mention it on fb please.

Mums the word... As a matter of fact...:blink:I have no idea what you are talking about???:blink:

P.S Thanks to you and Bezoe my spine is in the best shape ever these days, nice and straight (Im almost an inch taller sometimes) and that pain on the left side in the rhomboid region has'nt troubled me since, which is a miracle!

Glad to be of Help Brotha, hopefully we can get you through this one too!!!

 

[bezoe]

Well first of all, I totally agree with Doc- if its not reproducing pain, its a little less worrisome. BUT.. you are a young gun and this shouldnt be happening.

Questions:
- Is it both elbows?
- Any particular time of day it happens the most?
- Have you traumatized your elbows at all? (car wreck, sports injury, fall etc.)
- Do you have trouble with any other joints?
- When did it start?

Tennis and golf elbow, known as lateral and medial epicondylitis, repectively, dont seem to be whats going on. You would have achy, maybe even sharp muscular pain with activity.

Without being able to physically examine your elbows, I cant come to a specific diagnosis.. (its not technically within my scope, but I have the knowledge to do it). I need to know the answers to these questions and also how much water do you take in every day and are you on any medications?

 

[ScottyDoc]

how much water do you take in every day and are you on any medications?

That is actually a good point, as in are you adequately hydrated and the medications is a biggy too! There are a lot of medications out there that are known to cause symptoms/side effects of joint pain, sore, swollen, or just crepitus (grinding noise in the joint, usually due to scar tissue).

On a side note, are you taking any Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, and your EFA's (Omega 3,6,& 9's)? If not you should be, extremely good for overall joint health.

 

[celc5]

Wonder what the job is? Repetitive motion, maybe repetitive gripping???

 

[ScottyDoc]

Wonder what the job is? Repetitive motion, maybe repetitive gripping???

Yo... JB... more good questions here???

 

[EasyEJL]

I'm just putting this post in as a placeholder, so I remember to come back later and ask a question when I see it in my subscription list

 

[ScottyDoc]

I'm just putting this post in as a placeholder, so I remember to come back later and ask a question when I see it in my subscription list

Ask away Bro :yup:, that is why we are here, we really seem to have a good team of guys here on this thread... all doing our best to help our fellow meat-heads stay in the gym and reach their potential health goals!

 

[EasyEJL]

well, I have a pain in my right shoulder joint that is bothersome unless I get my arms at very specific angles, and they are different for each press type. it seems like it may be rotator cuff or related as if I stick my arms straight out then bend at the elbows so my hands point straight down and then rotate my forearm upwards I get hideously horrible momentary pain at maybe 15-20 degrees up from straight down. The pain is stabbing and extend from the underarm side of the joint to midway up the bicep (straight along the bone). And when I say horrible pain, I mean it, I have high pain tolerance, used to get my fillings done at the dentist without novacain. This is almost as bad as the moment you sprain an ankle. What is a little odd though is that for press movements, the pain is more on the front delt side, and a bit higher. Before I started doing rotation specific movements (db power cleans) that pain on the front delt portion coincided with a spot that was pretty tender to the touch as well. Now that i've been doing those db cleans on both chest + shoulder days although the presses seem to hurt just as much as ever, that spot isn't very painful to touch anymore.

Now for some fill in, i'm 43, was diagnosed with knee and lower back arthritis at 25, thumb arthritis about at 40-41, and none of my joints or tendons are very good.

 

[JohnBrinks]

Going back to what Scott said about inflamation, Ive tried taking 50mg of Diclofenac sodium a few days in a row and it seems to have no effect.

- Is it both elbows?

It is, they both have the same symptoms but my right is worse. :27::wink1:

- Any particular time of day it happens the most?

Nah, but deffinately after Ive been leaning on them at a desk, as I straighten them theres an almighty crack and a little disscomfort in both, if my palms are facing eachother theyre too crunchy to grind through, I have to pronate my hands to smoothen it out.

- Have you traumatized your elbows at all? (car wreck, sports injury, fall etc.)

I broke my right elbow, 6 years ago.

But I also bashed both of them about a bit doing Thai boxing, and needless to say... throwing heavy weights arround, shamefully my form was sloppy for years before I bothered to take care (until I started having problems).

- Do you have trouble with any other joints?

well my left knee points inwards a little sometimes, Ive been told to walk and jog like so: from the heel down frist placing the weight on the outer edge and then evening it back round towards the ball of the foot as I follow through the stride (if that makes any sense to you): told to me by my Dad who learnt it in the South African Army back in his day. And I do hamstring stretches and ballance exercises with my foot turned out to 10 'O clock.

Every morning when I get out of bed theres a pain in my shoulders just under my calvicles seemingly just above my caracoid process. For a while I thougth it was my pectoralis minor, I stretched and strenghtened it, then I thought it was my anterior delts, then I thought it was my traps, then I thought it was my subclavicular muscles, nothing seems to help, but it doesnt bother me anymore after about 5mins out of bed and it doesnt bother me during excercise so I just ignore it :S.

- When did it start?

it started about 3 years ago but its only got bad enough to think stop lifting about 6 months ago.

If I dont make absolute sure my elbows and and wrists are lined up nicely during bench press and shoulder press I cant fully straighten them, thats when it gets a little sore if I try to push it to full lockout. :whiner:

 

[TheKanezzi]

Hey doc-

I have always had elbows that get upset at me easily. I get pain on the medial aspect of both my elbows, and normally when I have elbow pain, my brachialis muscle shares in this pain. The pain is sharp, continuous, and only occurs after i overdo some sort of elbow flexion, and when I am at rest (in bed) it is the worst and gets a throbbing quality to it. When the pain occurs, so does a very eerie weakness in both my grip, brachialis and elbow extension/flexion. I take 10g fish oil daily as well as 2g cissus. I rode motorcycles for 14 years and have trained for about the same time. This most recent insult involved taking an atlas stone from ground to shoulder.

Any ideas or advice?

Regards

 

[celc5]

EZ,
If I understand your description correctly, you just described a positive test for tendonitis to the proximal biceps tendon. That's the tendon that slides through a groove real close to the shoulder. This sounds like overuse to me :nono:

 

[bezoe]

I'm just putting this post in as a placeholder, so I remember to come back later and ask a question when I see it in my subscription list

Easy my man! Welcome bra!

Sounds like supraspinatus impingement. NEVER abduct and internally rotate your shoulder (dont raise your arm out to the side with your thumb down). This causes the small, fragile supraspinatus tendon to slide over the greater tubercle and under the acromium and can become frayed from doing so. The biceps long head can also be caught up this way.

You may have some inflammation of the supraspinatus tendon, OR worst case, it may be kind of "chewed" up from years of overhead activity. My recommendation, without performing several tests in person, is to do some internal and external rotations with theraband, with your elbow against your side. This strengthens the other 3 rotator cuff muscles, which assist in "inferior translation" of the humeral head during shoulder abduction and flexion- keeps the supraspinatus tendon from being smashed between the two bones.

 

[ScottyDoc]

EZ,
If I understand your description correctly, you just described a positive test for tendonitis to the proximal biceps tendon. That's the tendon that slides through a groove real close to the shoulder. This sounds like overuse to me :nono:

I agree, but that would be more of a nagging pain, what he is talking about has to have something to do with nerve pain, I mean minus actually tearing something, usually only nerve pain can cause that kind of instantaneous shock of extreme sharp pain, where is the tenderness to the touch again and does the pain shoot up or down your arm, or is the sharp pain pin-pointed?

 

[ScottyDoc]

Easy my man! Welcome bra!

Sounds like supraspinatus impingement. NEVER abduct and internally rotate your shoulder (dont raise your arm out to the side with your thumb down). This causes the small, fragile supraspinatus tendon to slide over the greater tubercle and under the acromium and can become frayed from doing so. The biceps long head can also be caught up this way.

You may have some inflammation of the supraspinatus tendon, OR worst case, it may be kind of "chewed" up from years of overhead activity. My recommendation, without performing several tests in person, is to do some internal and external rotations with theraband, with your elbow against your side. This strengthens the other 3 rotator cuff muscles, which assist in "inferior translation" of the humeral head during shoulder abduction and flexion- keeps the supraspinatus tendon from being smashed between the two bones.

I agree with this... another good thing is to do the exact same exercises described by Bezoe, but in water, it's summertime, next time you are in the pool, spend a few minutes running through a few of those movements against the resistance of the water!

 

[ScottyDoc]

Hey doc-

I have always had elbows that get upset at me easily. I get pain on the medial aspect of both my elbows, and normally when I have elbow pain, my brachialis muscle shares in this pain. The pain is sharp, continuous, and only occurs after i overdo some sort of elbow flexion, and when I am at rest (in bed) it is the worst and gets a throbbing quality to it. When the pain occurs, so does a very eerie weakness in both my grip, brachialis and elbow extension/flexion. I take 10g fish oil daily as well as 2g cissus. I rode motorcycles for 14 years and have trained for about the same time. This most recent insult involved taking an atlas stone from ground to shoulder.

Any ideas or advice?

Regards

OK, a lot of this sounds like over-use syndrome. My best advice without being there to do a few muscle tests, etc. is for you to get some serious deep tissue massage, mainly in the flexors & extensors of your forearm, Brachioradialis being one of those muscles. Also there is the whole warm it up with heat before lifting and icing it down after to control the inflammatory response.

Bezoe being the master PT guy may have some other alternatives as well, but if you were to come into my office. After some muscle testing & palpation of the affected area, as well as a few orthopedic tests, and x-rays, to make sure nothing more serious was going on, I would start treatment as such... Apply heat for 15-20mins... then deep tissue work on the flexors, extensors and rotator muscles in the forearm to break up an muscle adhesions and scar tissue that may have formed, then I would manipulate the joints in your wrist and elbow, then end it with some ice for 15-20mins. As your treatment progressed, I would add in some wrist and elbow exercises to strengthen & stretch those areas.

 

[ScottyDoc]

Going back to what Scott said about inflamation, Ive tried taking 50mg of Diclofenac sodium a few days in a row and it seems to have no effect.

- Is it both elbows?

It is, they both have the same symptoms but my right is worse. :27::wink1:

- Any particular time of day it happens the most?

Nah, but deffinately after Ive been leaning on them at a desk, as I straighten them theres an almighty crack and a little disscomfort in both, if my palms are facing eachother theyre too crunchy to grind through, I have to pronate my hands to smoothen it out.

- Have you traumatized your elbows at all? (car wreck, sports injury, fall etc.)

I broke my right elbow, 6 years ago.

But I also bashed both of them about a bit doing Thai boxing, and needless to say... throwing heavy weights arround, shamefully my form was sloppy for years before I bothered to take care (until I started having problems).

- Do you have trouble with any other joints?

well my left knee points inwards a little sometimes, Ive been told to walk and jog like so: from the heel down frist placing the weight on the outer edge and then evening it back round towards the ball of the foot as I follow through the stride (if that makes any sense to you): told to me by my Dad who learnt it in the South African Army back in his day. And I do hamstring stretches and ballance exercises with my foot turned out to 10 'O clock.

Every morning when I get out of bed theres a pain in my shoulders just under my calvicles seemingly just above my caracoid process. For a while I thougth it was my pectoralis minor, I stretched and strenghtened it, then I thought it was my anterior delts, then I thought it was my traps, then I thought it was my subclavicular muscles, nothing seems to help, but it doesnt bother me anymore after about 5mins out of bed and it doesnt bother me during excercise so I just ignore it :S.

- When did it start?

it started about 3 years ago but its only got bad enough to think stop lifting about 6 months ago.

If I dont make absolute sure my elbows and and wrists are lined up nicely during bench press and shoulder press I cant fully straighten them, thats when it gets a little sore if I try to push it to full lockout. :whiner:

Man, I'm feeling ya Bro! Still all in all it still sounds like what we call in the profession DJD (degenerative joint disease) or Osteoarthritis, which is a natural occurrence with guys like us, but usually later in life due to all the heavy lifting and injuries, etc.

It is funny, but Prolotherapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolotherapy was mentioned on another one of my injury threads and from everything I have read about it and researched it looks promising and may be an alternative for you to follow up with, especially if it starts to become painful! Just a thought, I know your background, so research it, dig around a little, here are a few more links to look at....

http://www.prolotherapy.org/

http://www.dailystrength.org/treatments/Prolotherapy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162983

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

subb'd for info!

 

[JohnBrinks]

Man, I'm feeling ya Bro! Still all in all it still sounds like what we call in the profession DJD (degenerative joint disease) or Osteoarthritis, which is a natural occurrence with guys like us, but usually later in life due to all the heavy lifting and injuries, etc.

It is funny, but Prolotherapy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolotherapy was mentioned on another one of my injury threads and from everything I have read about it and researched it looks promising and may be an alternative for you to follow up with, especially if it starts to become painful! Just a thought, I know your background, so research it, dig around a little, here are a few more links to look at....

http://www.prolotherapy.org/

http://www.dailystrength.org/treatments/Prolotherapy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16162983

Im on it Bra!! :kiss: