Best supps for reducing anxiety/improving mood

[Jriddik]

I'd say that the profiles of Aggro and DaVinci both look more promising than Genius

It's possible that just the noopept in genius helps, but aggro is pretty stim heavy with the caffeine. Perhaps it's placebo, but I like the genius.

 

[Dfin0490]

I haven't had a chance to read other posts but L theimine works great 200 to 300 milligrams a day for me

 

[carmaf]

muscleupcrohn what are your thoughts on the FocusXT profile? Just got some recently and it looks like a good introduction to Nootropics.

 

[tristen22001]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/pes/274603-ashwagandha-ksm-66-a.html

I highly recommend ashwagandha, and if you have the money, theanine.

Can l-theanine be taken with food or should it be taken on an empty stomach? I wasn't sure if food would blunt its effects.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

muscleupcrohn what are your thoughts on the FocusXT profile? Just got some recently and it looks like a good introduction to Nootropics.

Sorry in advance for the messy post. I'm not going back and check it until later, so hopefully it makes sense:

The prop blend bothers me a little bit, but since SNS is a good company that knows how to formulate a product, and the feedback is good, we can figure out approximately how much of each ingredient there is.

First we have choline bitartrate. I'm going to say that the dose should be between 2g and 4.8g based on the research.

Here's a study with 2g choline bitartrate given to healthy adults (I just found this study today, sorry for just quoting random bits of text):

We found that choline bitartrate administration improves visomotor performance and decreases pupil size of healthy humans. This is the first scientific evidence for a rapid change in the nervous system and behavior after choline ingestion, pointing at choline’s wide-ranging effects on cognition...

The most obvious explanation for the null-results of previous studies on humans is that choline specifically affects fine motor control rather than ballistic movements and repetitive muscle movements as in cycling or running...

The outcomes of this study may be of direct help to, for example, athletes who can benefit from improvements in motor coordination despite slower reaction times. The current sample consisted of healthy young students with well-developed cognitive performance...

In summary, choline supplementation biased the speed-accuracy trade-off towards more accurate responses, improving the spatial coordination of hand and arm movements...

A particularly interesting observation from the present study was that individuals that were more effective (i.e., produced fewer misses) benefitted more from choline supplementation than less effective individuals. While this outcome pattern seems counterintuitive as one would expect more room for improvement in the less efficient individuals, we have observed similar patterns in other cognitive-enhancement interventions (e.g.,53). One possible explanation for such patterns might be that, at least in the cases being tested so far, the pre-interventional performance did not only reflect the current skill level but also the individual degree of short-term plasticity of the skill.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4536529/

Prior to reading this study, I had only seen studies showing some sort of cognitive enhancement in healthy and non-elderly individuals with CDP-choline (2 studies that I'm aware of), but now it seems that choline bitartrate may be a much more affordable, but still effective, choline source for cognitive enhancement, contrary to the typical belief parroted on many nootropic sites.

Here's a study with 2.4g taken twice daily:

Twenty-two female athletes (15 taekwondo and 7 judo athletes) were selected from different weight categories and divided into two groups, according to weight. The players in the experimental group took choline tablets for one week before a competition. The results revealed significant differences between pre- and post-competition measurements of leptin, free plasma choline, urine choline and urine malondialdehyde levels; body mass was also reduced in the post-competition measurements. In conclusion, choline supplementation could rapidly reduce body mass without any side effects on biochemical levels or static strength.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4096089/

Next up is l-tyrosine, which research tends to dose at 100-150mg/kg, or 6.8-10.2g for a 150lb person. However, this dose is often split into multiple servings of about 2g, so we'll figure that there's probably around 2g in Focus XT. Research shows that it's an effective ingredient.

Up next is ALCAR. An effective daily dose is 2g, although this is often split into two 1g doses. We'll figure that there's 1-2g here.

I haven't done much research on DMAE, so I'm not sure really how much there should be or if it's effective, but I've seen doses range from 100mg to over a gram. I haven't seen any studies on healthy humans though. I remember Cooper saying "DMAE doses likely won't exceed ~250mg" in regards to Focus XT, so let's go with that.

Vinpocetine and huperzine both have some promising research in healthy adults, and the doses needed are quite low (only a few mg really for vinpocetine and less than one mg for huperzine), so its likely that they're dosed properly.

So, based on these numbers, it's very likely that Focus XT is properly dosed, as we can fit all of the ingredients at effective doses in the total blend in the order they appear on the label. Choline bitartrate, tyrosine, ALCAR, vinpocetine, and huperzine are all effective ingredients with research supporting their use in healthy humans. DMAE I'm less sure of, but it's safe and, at the worst, isn't going to hurt the effectiveness of the product.

In conclusion, I'd say it is a good introduction to nootropics, and is much better than the vast majority of nootropic supplements on the market, which tend to be extremely underdosed. It is a very good base to be used as the foundation for a more advanced nootropic stack, and there are other ingredients that can be added to it, such as racetams and/or herbal nootropics/adaptogens, to make a more advanced and versatile stack, but it's still going to be effective alone.

 

[Justlooking5]

A few things I've found helpful:

- Taurine for anxiolytic properties (anti-anxiety). ZMA also.

- Betaine (TMG) increases Sam E, which improves mood

- Switch from coffee to guarana, less stressed/high cortisol/anxious feeling, more clean energy upbeat mood

 

[muscleupcrohn]

A few things I've found helpful:

- Taurine for anxiolytic properties (anti-anxiety). ZMA also.

- Betaine (TMG) increases Sam E, which improves mood

- Switch from coffee to guarana, less stressed/high cortisol/anxious feeling, more clean energy upbeat mood

Have you tried caffeine+theanine or, even better, the two + ornithine and/or taurine?

 

[Justlooking5]

I haven't outside of green tea. What does ornithine do in this case?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I haven't outside of green tea. What does ornithine do in this case?

The subjects were all healthy office workers who ingested the placebo, 100 mg caffeine, or 100 mg caffeine plus 200 mg ornithine in the morning and completed questionnaires about their mood. Office workers who consumed the combination of caffeine and ornithine had higher mood ratings 8 h after consumption than office workers who consumed caffeine alone. The results of the present study suggest that there is a unique synergistic effect between caffeine and ornithine on the mood of healthy office workers and that ornithine may potentiate the effects of caffeine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25580405

 

[carmaf]

Thanks for the write up muscleupcrohn. I'm lookng forward to trying out FocusXT, just wanted some simple noots in a premade mix before I start adding individual ingredients and delving deeper. Your post makes it seem like I made a good choice. Appreciate it.

 

[BamBam0319]

I'm gonna go for aggro haha

 

[carmaf]

After reading this thread I'm gonna give Aggro and DaVinci a shot maybe as well, when I'm ready to play the Racetam game. Don't know how strong that stuff is.

 

[ucheoma]

Post in nootropics plse. Its. a fascinating topic and would love to see more posts in that section to build up knowledge on this

 

[carmaf]

Post in nootropics plse. Its. a fascinating topic and would love to see more posts in that section to build up knowledge on this

On Racetams???

 

[ucheoma]

On Racetams???

On supps for reducing anxiety and reducing mood as per the topic

 

[jarrellt67]

In no particular order (nootropics and adapgotens that have at research showing benefits in healthy humans in regards to mood and/or anxiety):
* denotes something that I've found works well (not that the others don't, I just haven't really had a lot of experience with some and/or haven't tried them without other new variables)

Theanine*
Ornithine
Rhodiola
Aswhagandha*
Bacopa
Kanna
Holy Basil
American Ginseng
Kava*

Can you please describe the effects you felt with kava?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Can you please describe the effects you felt with kava?

I've found it makes me more relaxed, less anxious, and more social (being outgoing and talking to people).

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

I've found it makes me more relaxed, less anxious, and more social (being outgoing and talking to people).

Ecklonia kava correct?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Ecklonia kava correct?

No. Kava (Piper methysticum), or Kava Kava. Standardized for kavalactones. A low/moderate dose, I just want to reduce stress/anxiety, not get intoxicated and/or damage my liver. It's not something I would use daily for more than a few weeks at a time, if that.

 

[jarrellt67]

I've found it makes me more relaxed, less anxious, and more social (being outgoing and talking to people).

Thank you. I'll probably pick some up tonight and give it a try (Gaia Herbs brand). Any particular dosage you found works best (and whether taking it with a meal effects the results any)? I read one study where it's thought to be also a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. If true, it seems like that would increase anxiety. I guess either the effects on norepinephrine are minimal or the effects on gaba are large enough to offset that.

 

[YoungBodyBuil]

No. Kava (Piper methysticum), or Kava Kava. Standardized for kavalactones. A low/moderate dose, I just want to reduce stress/anxiety, not get intoxicated and/or damage my liver. It's not something I would use daily for more than a few weeks at a time, if that.

Thanks for clarification.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thank you. I'll probably pick some up tonight and give it a try (Gaia Herbs brand). Any particular dosage you found works best (and whether taking it with a meal effects the results any)? I read one study where it's thought to be also a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. If true, it seems like that would increase anxiety. I guess either the effects on norepinephrine are minimal or the effects on gaba are large enough to offset that.

I haven't played with the dose too much, but I like 90mg kavalactones (30% extract) acutely. This dose has been shown to improve mood (and actually even reduce reaction time) in people who had never taken kava). It also trended to reduce seriousness, which is nice for socializing.

A handful of studies have noted reduced anxiety with similar doses (~100mg kavalactones), while one study used up to 250mg kavalactones (split into 100, 100, and 50mg servings).

I'd use 90-100mg kavalactones once daily to start (preferably before you want to be social), and possibly increase the dose to 90-100mg 2x daily.

Most studies were only 2-4 weeks in duration, but I think one noted more benefits at 8 weeks or something. I probably wouldn't use it daily for more than 4 weeks. Perhaps if you only used it some days though.

As for liver issues, this is a good read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20720265/

Kava is one extract where I would not hesitate to pay a premium (within reason) for a quality extract. Not only to ensure that you're getting the kavalactones (so it's effective), but so you're getting an extract that is as pure and safe as possible. Gaia is quality as far as I know, but I don't know the details of their kava.

If you REALLY want to play it as safe as possible (and have the best chance of it working well) go with either LI 150 (30%) or WS 1490 (70%) as these standardized extracts have been used in studies.

 

[jarrellt67]

I haven't played with the dose too much, but I like 90mg kavalactones (30% extract) acutely. This dose has been shown to improve mood (and actually even reduce reaction time) in people who had never taken kava). It also trended to reduce seriousness, which is nice for socializing.

A handful of studies have noted reduced anxiety with similar doses (~100mg kavalactones), while one study used up to 250mg kavalactones (split into 100, 100, and 50mg servings).

I'd use 90-100mg kavalactones once daily to start (preferably before you want to be social), and possibly increase the dose to 90-100mg 2x daily.

Most studies were only 2-4 weeks in duration, but I think one noted more benefits at 8 weeks or something. I probably wouldn't use it daily for more than 4 weeks. Perhaps if you only used it some days though.

As for liver issues, this is a good read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20720265/

Kava is one extract where I would not hesitate to pay a premium (within reason) for a quality extract. Not only to ensure that you're getting the kavalactones (so it's effective), but so you're getting an extract that is as pure and safe as possible. Gaia is quality as far as I know, but I don't know the details of their kava.

If you REALLY want to play it as safe as possible (and have the best chance of it working well) go with either LI 150 (30%) or WS 1490 (70%) as these standardized extracts have been used in studies.

Awesome response! Thank you for taking the time to provide it. Gaia's kind of my go-to brand to initially try new herbs...partly because they provide quality products but also because they're available locally and easy to obtain. I did see in a kava forum where someone posted a COA from Gaia that indicates they use the Noble variaty/strain of Kava...which I believe is supposed to be the best. However, I'll check into the two extracts you mention and see if I can find any brands that use them. Thanks again.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Awesome response! Thank you for taking the time to provide it. Gaia's kind of my go-to brand to initially try new herbs...partly because they provide quality products but also because they're available locally and easy to obtain. I did see in a kava forum where someone posted a COA from Gaia that indicates they use the Noble variaty/strain of Kava...which I believe is supposed to be the best. However, I'll check into the two extracts you mention and see if I can find any brands that use them. Thanks again.

No problem man. I just looked for both the 150 and 1490, and couldn't find either. Some people mentioned that a pharmaceutical company owns 1490, but I'm not really sure. I couldn't find any extracts using either, but studies have noted benefits with other kava, and it has a LONG history of use, so those aren't your only options. Gaia is a good choice for kava it look like, I'd just stick to a brand that you can trust (I have some NOW kava).

 

[EricIrons]

L-Theanine works but I actually have a supplement coming out under MM that will eliminate anxiety in 30 minutes. It's going to really help people. Stay tuned!

 

[jarrellt67]

L-Theanine works but I actually have a supplement coming out under MM that will eliminate anxiety in 30 minutes. It's going to really help people. Stay tuned!

MM is going to start selling phenibut?

edit: it would be great if someone came out with something that actually eliminated anxiety without some sort of tolerance, addiction or negative side effect. I've tried many supplements in this thread (and others) that help a lot with reducing anxiety but there's always a catch.

 

[EricIrons]

No, its not Phen...lol I like it for sleeping but never did anything for anxiety.

I cant give out the formula, but suffice to say it's very advanced theory using simple nutrients! There is a catch here too but we are going to eliminate that... We may license it out too!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

L-Theanine works but I actually have a supplement coming out under MM that will eliminate anxiety in 30 minutes. It's going to really help people. Stay tuned!

No, its not Phen...lol I like it for sleeping but never did anything for anxiety.

I cant give out the formula, but suffice to say it's very advanced theory using simple nutrients! There is a catch here too but we are going to eliminate that... We may license it out too!

Hmm... would you be able to elaborate a bit more. Non-sedating? Subject to tolerance and/or dependence, etc? There are certainly ingredients (and combinations of ingredients) that can help tremendously with anxiety, but eliminating anxiety entirely for everyone sounds like it may be a bit of a stretch IMO. Definitely interested though.

 

[ericool007]

No, its not Phen...lol I like it for sleeping but never did anything for anxiety.

I cant give out the formula, but suffice to say it's very advanced theory using simple nutrients! There is a catch here too but we are going to eliminate that... We may license it out too!

Phenibut is legit tho just dont use more than once a week
2 grams of phen feel comparable to 2mgs of Ativan

 

[DoubleM101]

L-Theanine works but I actually have a supplement coming out under MM that will eliminate anxiety in 30 minutes. It's going to really help people. Stay tuned!

I´m very curious and interested.

Can you elaborate a little more please?

 

[Daycrawler]

Phenibut for occasional use. I hated kava kava. It was hard to focus, as it put me in a weird state.

L dopa is great also. Picmilion if you can find it

 

[jcratty75]

No, its not Phen...lol I like it for sleeping but never did anything for anxiety.

I cant give out the formula, but suffice to say it's very advanced theory using simple nutrients! There is a catch here too but we are going to eliminate that... We may license it out too!

What's the timeframe for this?

 

[jarrellt67]

Phenibut for occasional use. I hated kava kava. It was hard to focus, as it put me in a weird state.

L dopa is great also. Picmilion if you can find it

Agree about kava. Only took two days of use to convince me to avoid it. It was very stimulating for the first hour or two (and gave me a headache each time). After that it was a pretty calming but with a spaced out, weird feeling. Didn't like it at all.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Agree about kava. Only took two days of use to convince me to avoid it. It was very stimulating for the first hour or two (and gave me a headache each time). After that it was a pretty calming but with a spaced out, weird feeling. Didn't like it at all.

How much, what type (powder, extract, etc), and when did you take it?

 

[jarrellt67]

How much, what type (powder, extract, etc), and when did you take it?

One capsule (Gaia Kava Kava) on an empty stomach in the late afternoon and early morning the last couple days. The late afternoon one did help my sleep the last couple nights since the brief stimulation wore off before I went to bed and I was left with the calm, almost groggy feeling. The product label says it's 75 mg of kavalactones per capsule. However, I looked up my batch on Gaia's meet your herbs website and apparently it has a 88 mg.

This morning I decided (for some unknown reason) to cut open the capsule and take it sublinqually. There was a bit more stimulation (and faster onset) than swallowing the capsule but the worse part was the numbing of my mouth (which I read was typical of the stronger extracts).

Looks like this will be another supplement going straight to the trash...

 

[jarrellt67]

Anyone try niacinamide for reducing anxiety? I read quite a few reports/studies/anecdotes online today that it works pretty well and at higher doses is thought to work on the same receptors as benzos (not as strong but also includes a more clear-headed effect too). I ordered some (along with phenibut to help with a social event this weekend) today to try.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

One capsule (Gaia Kava Kava) on an empty stomach in the late afternoon and early morning the last couple days. The late afternoon one did help my sleep the last couple nights since the brief stimulation wore off before I went to bed and I was left with the calm, almost groggy feeling. The product label says it's 75 mg of kavalactones per capsule. However, I looked up my batch on Gaia's meet your herbs website and apparently it has a 88 mg.

This morning I decided (for some unknown reason) to cut open the capsule and take it sublinqually. There was a bit more stimulation (and faster onset) than swallowing the capsule but the worse part was the numbing of my mouth (which I read was typical of the stronger extracts).

Looks like this will be another supplement going straight to the trash...

I've been using it at night lately, a couple hours before going to bed (75mg kavalactones from NOW 30% Kava extract) and find it helps me relax and not stress so much. Works differently for everyone I suppose.

 

[jarrellt67]

I've been using it at night lately, a couple hours before going to bed (75mg kavalactones from NOW 30% Kava extract) and find it helps me relax and not stress so much. Works differently for everyone I suppose.

That or the Now kava is one of the more calming strains. Read after I had already bought (and tried a couple doses) the Gaia kava that the Noble strain (or whatever it's called) they use is more stimulating.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That or the Now kava is one of the more calming strains. Read after I had already bought (and tried a couple doses) the Gaia kava that the Noble strain (or whatever it's called) they use is more stimulating.

That's possible. That's part of the reason why it'd be nice to be able to use the exact extract used in many of the studies, but it doesn't seem like it's available.

I just did a quick search, and one user said that they end up coming back to NOW kava after trying a variety of different types of kava.

Interestingly, they also mentioned that they open the caps and dissolve them in massage oil. They claim that this really relaxes sore muscles. Granted, it's a n=1 anecdote from Reddit, haha, but it's something I suppose.

It seems like a lot of people high-dose kava (higher than the amount used in studies) for more "recreational" purposes. I wouldn't recommend this, as it can lead to intoxication and potential liver issues.

 

[KimChee75]

Phenibut occasionally, I also take a .25mg Xanax before bedtime and wake up feeling good in the morning..I saw an earlier post for Clonidine I take one .2mg tab before bed it's a rx, and it rapidly decreases your BP, HR, etc..I've had good success with Kava Kava also, but it's harder to find these days due to those studies coming out..

 

[jarrellt67]

That's possible. That's part of the reason why it'd be nice to be able to use the exact extract used in many of the studies, but it doesn't seem like it's available.

I just did a quick search, and one user said that they end up coming back to NOW kava after trying a variety of different types of kava.

Interestingly, they also mentioned that they open the caps and dissolve them in massage oil. They claim that this really relaxes sore muscles. Granted, it's a n=1 anecdote from Reddit, haha, but it's something I suppose.

It seems like a lot of people high-dose kava (higher than the amount used in studies) for more "recreational" purposes. I wouldn't recommend this, as it can lead to intoxication and potential liver issues.

I might give the Now kava a try sometime then since it could have different effects.

Not sure I'm up to opening the Gaia kava capsules and mixing in massage oil.

Recreational use of kava is something I want to stay away from. I mainly wanted it to help with social anxiety at work. So, that probably wouldn't be a good idea. I'll try niacinamide first when it arrives tomorrow but if it doesn't help then I'll give the phenibut I also ordered a shot (at about 500 mg/day...similar to what is recommended in the russian studies/literature).

 

[HIT4ME]

Just another option worth trying....agmatine has been shown to reduce anxiety, stress, depression, etc.

 

[kisaj]

I'm disappointed in myself for not mentioning that, it is usually on my staple list for situations like this.

 

[HIT4ME]

I'm disappointed in myself for not mentioning that, it is usually on my staple list for situations like this.

lol, I was half surprised it didn't seem to be mentioned earlier....but only half. A lot of people don't realize the health benefits that go with it, only recognize it for pumps...which is funny because I think the pump thing is the least well researched aspect of the chemical. I'm actually having a fight with a doctor about it right now - the doctor wants to keep prescribing more and more medicine and opiates to my grandmother and won't even give this a shot, even after my grandmother wound up in the hospital unresponsive after sleeping forever.

But, normally you steal all the thunder, so I just figured you were leaving it on the table so that I could feel smarter.

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, yeah, that was my plan. Thanks for making it work out. haha

 

[jarrellt67]

I tried 250 mg of Primaforce Phenibut yesterday and this morning and that stuff is really strong! Even at such a low dose my anxiety was completely eliminated. Didn't really give a change in mood at such a low dose but that's good because I have a feeling that's what people start chasing with the ever escalating doses.

Picked up a different brand of kava to try (Natrol...it was really cheap and has good reviews). Curious to see if I get a different response from it versus the Gaia kava.

 

[yelis300]

I'd skip all of these except the kava kava. Kava will work but not with the cheap pills you buy from a vitamin store or anywhere else. The BEST kava you will find is the ground kava root and made into tea as it is traditionally prepared. I've been down the kava road before and trust me, you won't find anything better than Bula Kava House. Get on their website, read about their diff products, then place an order and give it a try. Trust me, it's the bomb! Not the best tasting, kinda gross really, but very effective for relaxing. I actually used this kava to kick a bad Kratom habit I had a while back. Kava is not addictive at all so no worries about that. Also, I think the "bad for your liver" thing about kava isn't true. Can't remember where I read it but the study they did that said kava caused liver damage was inconclusive because the participants were also drinking alcohol WITH the kava and so it got a bad rap for that and then it just kind of spread out on the internet that it's bad for you, so keep that in mind. I drank a **** ton of it for months and then had my liver enzymes checked after that and I was just fine so take that for what it's worth.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I'd skip all of these except the kava kava. Kava will work but not with the cheap pills you buy from a vitamin store or anywhere else. The BEST kava you will find is the ground kava root and made into tea as it is traditionally prepared. I've been down the kava road before and trust me, you won't find anything better than Bula Kava House. Get on their website, read about their diff products, then place an order and give it a try. Trust me, it's the bomb! Not the best tasting, kinda gross really, but very effective for relaxing. I actually used this kava to kick a bad Kratom habit I had a while back. Kava is not addictive at all so no worries about that. Also, I think the "bad for your liver" thing about kava isn't true. Can't remember where I read it but the study they did that said kava caused liver damage was inconclusive because the participants were also drinking alcohol WITH the kava and so it got a bad rap for that and then it just kind of spread out on the internet that it's bad for you, so keep that in mind. I drank a **** ton of it for months and then had my liver enzymes checked after that and I was just fine so take that for what it's worth.

Thanks for the info. It does seem that the liver issues aren't conclusive. I think I linked a study about it somewhere ITT, but I don't remember what it concluded, haha.

 

[yelis300]

If you don't want to make the tea and want a simpler means of getting what you need, kavalactones, go to kava.com and get the kava paste and give it a try. They have the strongest % kavalactones you can legally get in the U.S. In the paste but convenience comes with a price too.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

If you don't want to make the tea and want a simpler means of getting what you need, kavalactones, go to kava.com and get the kava paste and give it a try. They have the strongest % kavalactones you can legally get in the U.S. In the paste but convenience comes with a price too.

If it's purely kavalactones you're concerned about, what is wrong with the 30% extracts that are more common? Some of them are from very reputable companies, some even have batch specifications I think.