Are you #&%*ing serious?!? ANABOLIC EDGE (Spons.), ACTIVATE XTREME, IGF-2 & PRIME!!!

[shaddow]

That looks tasty AND clean AND a moderate portion! I love that combination, but that third element is a rarity for me.

Since I'm bulking, I don't believe in moderate portions. My current motto is: EAT EVERYTHING!!! :food::food::food: :hammer:

 

[Steveoph]

That looks delicious! What do you season your veggies with?

Just some McCormick's No Salt Table Seasoning. I wouldn't recommend buying it lol, just trying to use it up and clear cupboard space. I bought some vegetable spice from costco in bulk that is quite good though, often use that too. Frozen veggies are me being too lazy to saute up some.

 

[SilentBob187]

Since I'm bulking, I don't believe in moderate portions. My current motto is: EAT EVERYTHING!!! :food::food::food: :hammer:

The See food diet, good times!

 

[Irish Cannon]

Gotta draw the line somewhere. shaddow needs his space. I've missed many a workout sessions because of needy women and my inability to say 'No,' to the 'nanny. :hammer:

No joke.

It's more my diet that suffers when I'm in a relationship. That's probably worse.

 

[shaddow]

No joke.

It's more my diet that suffers when I'm in a relationship. That's probably worse.

Oh, totally. Diet's the first thing to go out the window, then goes the training... I just don't have enough time right now to juggle everything. I'm not adverse to being in a relationship, and I'm not player or anything. I really like this girl. But I really need to avoid distractions during the week. My job is stressing me the **** out. :gore:

 

[shaddow]

Day 6: Friday, September 26

Weight: 183.0 (+2.2)

I got a flu shot today at work today, and my left shoulder has been kinda sore all day. On shoulder day! Grrrr... Still have heavy DOMS from my back/triceps workout Wednesday. I don't know what's up with that. I kinda figured DOMS would pretty much be non-existent on this stack, but my DOMS every day this week has been worse than last week. Maybe since I just started back up 2 weeks ago after being on bed rest? Maybe I'm lifting a lot more than I normally would? But I don't feel like I am. It's kinda weird. Oh well.

Workout # 3 on stack - Shoulders & traps!!!

Worked late, got to the gym late. Been doing this a lot lately. :frustrate: 45 minutes to work out. **** it. This workout was all about EXTREME INTENSITY!!! My recovery was ok, but I was still breathing heavy most of the time. Might've overdone it with the stims. At times I didn't feel like I was even resting between sets! LET'S GO!!! :aargh::aargh::aargh:

Barbell overhead presses
45 x 20
115 x 12
135 x 8
135 x 6 DROPSET TO:
115 x 8

Dumbbell shoulder presses
50 x 12
60 x 10
70 x FAIL. And nobody around to spot me. Dammit. I just need help getting them up initially. I know I could muscle out a few reps. ****!
60 x 8 DROP TO:
40 x 10

Dumbbell front raises SUPERSET with dumbbell lateral raises
30 x 12 / 20 x 12
35 x 8 / 25 x 10
40 x 6 / 30 x 8

Seated rear lateral raises
190 x 10
205 x 6

Onto traps.

Dumbbell shrugs
100 x 12
100 x 10

Smith reverse shrugs
225 x 8 - Started losing my grip. Damn! :aargh:
225 x 12
225 x 12
275 x 8
275 x 8 DROPSET TO:
225 x 8 DROPSET TO:
135 x 20

This was one of the most intense sessions I've had in a while, and I am SPENT. Great workout! :head::head::head:

I never get shoulder DOMS. Let's see how I feel tomorrow.

TIME TO EAT!!!! :food::food::food:

10:26pm

10:30pm

10:39pm

:dance:

 

[VolcomX311]

Way to push those shrugs, and your diet looks awesome.

 

[shaddow]

Way to push those shrugs, and your diet looks awesome.

Thanks, bro! :head:

Would ideally have liked more veggies but I ran out last night and forgot to pick some up. Good thing I'm still hungry. I'm gonna head to the store and grab some stuff so I can chow down on veggies and some lean ground beef. :food::food::food:

 

[shaddow]

****, I left something out. Dumbbell shrugs @ 100lbs.

*Editing my post.*

 

[Rosie Chee]

Since I'm bulking, I don't believe in moderate portions. My current motto is: EAT EVERYTHING!!! :food::food::food: :hammer:

Rosie is like that 99% of the time

No joke.

It's more my diet that suffers when I'm in a relationship. That's probably worse.

You guys need to learn HOW to pick your women. Man, hot and good in bed are NOT great relationship keepers (Rosie shakes her head). Ok, now I'm done (biting my tongue sure is HARD, damn).

 

[thundergod]

shaddow-man, You're an eating machine bro. I can't believe how you and russianstar can eat so many freakin' carbs and be shredded like you guys are. He's at 5.4% bodyfat! And he eats like a horse. So do you. I'm just hating. :rasp: At 44 I've got to watch my calories to compensate for the slower metabolism. It sukks ballz too. :frustrate I love to eat. I just pile on the meat when I stuff my face! Gotta have that protein! :food:

 

[SilentBob187]

Nice shoulder day man.

Destroyed that food too, nice!

 

[LiveWire224]

Nice workout bro...killed the shoulders!!! Way to go!
Nice meal too!!

So what Pre W/O stims did you decide to go with??

 

[Irish Cannon]

You guys need to learn HOW to pick your women. Man, hot and good in bed are NOT great relationship keepers (Rosie shakes her head). Ok, now I'm done (biting my tongue sure is HARD, damn).

C'mon, Rosie. You really think I'm that superficial?

I think the last time I picked a woman based on looks was when I was 15. As for sexual performance, I've never cared. As long as they try their best!

The reason my diet suffers so bad is honestly because I am so selfless in relationships. If the girl wants to do something, and it involved me having to skip a meal, then that's what I'd do. I don't think I have ever dated a woman that understood my bodybuilding. THAT has been the problem with me picking the right women.

 

[Rosie Chee]

C'mon, Rosie. You really think I'm that superficial?

I think the last time I picked a woman based on looks was when I was 15. As for sexual performance, I've never cared. As long as they try their best!

The reason my diet suffers so bad is honestly because I am so selfless in relationships. If the girl wants to do something, and it involved me having to skip a meal, then that's what I'd do. I don't think I have ever dated a woman that understood my bodybuilding. THAT has been the problem with me picking the right women.

MOST males ARE that superficial (and yes, I've been told time and again how HARSH I am)!

You can be selfless withOUT sacrificing what's important to you. Finding a female who UNDERSTANDS this lifestyle and training, etc. can NOT seriously be THAT hard...

 

[shaddow]

Day 7: Saturday, September 27

Weight: 183.0 (+2.2)

Hey guys. Just a quick update cuz I've gotta run out the door. Today is an off day. Tomorrow is an off day as well. I am up 2.2lbs this first week, so that is a good sign, but come on, with my diet I should expect to gain. However, I feel bigger. I just measured my chest cuz I really do feel a bit larger, and I am up to 41", up 1" from a week ago. Left bicep - 14.5". Right bicep - 15". That's up .5" respectively. EVEN WITH WEIGHT GOING DOWN ON MANY LIFTS THIS WEEK. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

Passed out at ~1 last night, and woke up at 9 this morning. Ate breakfast, and came back to my room to relax for a bit. Passed out and woke up at 5:30! WTF! I never do that. I think the intensity of my workouts lately might have something to do with it? This is crazy. Lift hard, eat big, and sleep like a mother****er, right? I guess. Up 1" in my chest and a half inch in my arms in a week is damn good, IMO. I don't care if I get even WEAKER this next week if I grow another inch and half inch, respectively.

Oh yeah... Shoulder DOMS... WTF?!?! I am SORE. That NEVER happens. I don't think of it as a bad thing though. I guess I'm really beating up my muscles. More later. Sorry if I'm ignoring posts, I have to run, I'm late for a date! Catch you guys later!

 

[LiveWire224]

Day 7: Saturday, September 27

Weight: 183.0 (+2.2)

Hey guys. Just a quick update cuz I've gotta run out the door. Today is an off day. Tomorrow is an off day as well. I am up 2.2lbs this first week, so that is a good sign, but come on, with my diet I should expect to gain. However, I feel bigger. I just measured my chest cuz I really do feel a bit larger, and I am up to 41", up 1" from a week ago. Left bicep - 14.5". Right bicep - 15". That's up .5" respectively. EVEN WITH WEIGHT GOING DOWN ON MANY LIFTS THIS WEEK. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

Passed out at ~1 last night, and woke up at 9 this morning. Ate breakfast, and came back to my room to relax for a bit. Passed out and woke up at 5:30! WTF! I never do that. I think the intensity of my workouts lately might have something to do with it? This is crazy. Lift hard, eat big, and sleep like a mother****er, right? I guess. Up 1" in my chest and a half inch in my arms in a week is damn good, IMO. I don't care if I get even WEAKER this next week if I grow another inch and half inch, respectively.

Oh yeah... Shoulder DOMS... WTF?!?! I am SORE. That NEVER happens. I don't think of it as a bad thing though. I guess I'm really beating up my muscles. More later. Sorry if I'm ignoring posts, I have to run, I'm late for a date! Catch you guys later!

NICE!!
Get Er Done!!!!:hammer:

 

[metroba]

Lookn good man! Lookn good.

 

[TimberLakers]

MOST males ARE that superficial (and yes, I've been told time and again how HARSH I am)!

You can be selfless withOUT sacrificing what's important to you. Finding a female who UNDERSTANDS this lifestyle and training, etc. can NOT seriously be THAT hard...

I'm that superficial! :woohoo:

 

[rolandajoint]

MOST males ARE that superficial (and yes, I've been told time and again how HARSH I am)!

You can be selfless withOUT sacrificing what's important to you. Finding a female who UNDERSTANDS this lifestyle and training, etc. can NOT seriously be THAT hard...

i found THAT girl. not only does she understand, she is getting into it too. she saw some girl at the olympia expo she recognized and was as excited to see and meet them as i was to see some of the doods i look up to.

and irish, i hear ya. not so much skipping meals, but having unscheduled and definitely unnecessary cheat meals. oh well tho. unless youre in contest prep, no one should get too down on themselves about diet.

shaddow, damn dood im jealous of the shoulder routine. cant wait to get back to full blown chaos and blasting my delts to oblivion as you have demonstrated :head:

 

[dragonfly]

shaddow, damn dood im jealous of the shoulder routine. cant wait to get back to full blown chaos and blasting my delts to oblivion as you have demonstrated :head:

I'm jealous of your avi Shaddow , think I'll give this shoulder demolition routine of yours a go :thumbsup:

 

[shaddow]

Day 9: Monday, September 29

Weight: 182.8 (+2)

Sorry for not updating yesterday. I ended up heading downtown with the lady and some of my friends after dinner Saturday night, then ended up back to her place. I hardly slept Saturday night, it was HORRIBLE. And NO, before anyone says, 'Yeah! Way to go shaddow!' It's NOT for the reason you're thinking. I just kept tossing and turning and couldn't fall asleep. I probably slept an hour and a half tops Saturday night, so I was pretty miserable Sunday. And as Irish and I were saying earlier, the first thing that goes out the window is DIET. ****. I missed my late night meal Saturday, I stayed up too late, I didn't eat until almost noon on Sunday, and I didn't get home until late that day so I missed half my meals Sunday too. I was smart enough to bring my pill cases along so I did take my supps, but my diet suffered tremendously. :frustrate:

Arrrrrrgggghhhhhh...

Today is chest and biceps. I woke up feeling good, but I got to work this morning, and my coworker who sits right next to me has some flowers she got for her birthday, and I am deathly allergic to them, so I am congested, my eyes are itchy and watery, I can't stop sneezing... UGH! I just wanna go home. I'm in a seriously bad mood this morning, and my phone won't stop ringing. STOP CALLING ME! I don't wanna talk to you!!! I am going to ****ing take my anger out on the weights tonight. I don't care if I break my neck on my way home, I am going to make those weights my *****. :aargh::aargh::aargh:

 

[thundergod]

Today is chest and biceps. I woke up feeling good, but I got to work this morning, and my coworker who sits right next to me has some flowers she got for her birthday, and I am deathly allergic to them, so I am congested, my eyes are itchy and watery, I can't stop sneezing... UGH! I just wanna go home. I'm in a seriously bad mood this morning, and my phone won't stop ringing. STOP CALLING ME! I don't wanna talk to you!!! I am going to ****ing take my anger out on the weights tonight. I don't care if I break my neck on my way home, I am going to make those weights my *****. :aargh::aargh::aargh:

Oh, I love this sh*t!! Sorry to hear about the allergic reaction, but it seems to have provided some much needed rage for tonight's battle! Rage is THE best steroid I have ever taken!! A couple of Benadryl for allergy: Less than $2. Some Visine/Allergy for the watery eyes: $3. That rage that will move mountains: PRICELESS!!! :head:

 

[shaddow]

Nice workout bro...killed the shoulders!!! Way to go!
Nice meal too!!

So what Pre W/O stims did you decide to go with??

Went with RPM again. 4 caps. Might've been too much cuz I had 200mg caffeine before leaving work about 2-3 hours before taking my RPM, so some of it might've still been in my system.

 

[shaddow]

C'mon, Rosie. You really think I'm that superficial?

I think the last time I picked a woman based on looks was when I was 15. As for sexual performance, I've never cared. As long as they try their best!

The reason my diet suffers so bad is honestly because I am so selfless in relationships. If the girl wants to do something, and it involved me having to skip a meal, then that's what I'd do. I don't think I have ever dated a woman that understood my bodybuilding. THAT has been the problem with me picking the right women.

I get where you're coming from, cuz I am the same way. I have problems putting myself before women, but I think that for the sake of what I am trying to accomplish here with my training I am going to have to make some changes. I am very disappointed with the results of my diet this weekend, and I think I might have to let the girl know what's up. I just can't let my time get tied up like this. It's going to be difficult for me because I know she's really into me, but I'm just gonna be honest and let her know what's up. I can't control how she chooses to interpret what I say, but I have to do this for me right now. Dating is at the bottom of my list of priorities.

 

[shaddow]

shaddow, damn dood im jealous of the shoulder routine. cant wait to get back to full blown chaos and blasting my delts to oblivion as you have demonstrated :head:

Soon enough, bro! How's the rehab going?

 

[shaddow]

I'm jealous of your avi Shaddow , think I'll give this shoulder demolition routine of yours a go :thumbsup:

Jealous? Your shoulders and upper back are ripped to shreds! Keep up the good work!

 

[shaddow]

Oh, I love this sh*t!! Sorry to hear about the allergic reaction, but it seems to have provided some much needed rage for tonight's battle! Rage is THE best steroid I have ever taken!! A couple of Benadryl for allergy: Less than $2. Some Visine/Allergy for the watery eyes: $3. That rage that will move mountains: PRICELESS!!! :head:

Thanks, brotha! I'm gonna channel that anger tonight and take it all out on the iron!!! And you know this! :aargh::aargh::aargh:

 

[shaddow]

You know, it's funny... As angry as I may be on the inside, as soon as I think about the Skins beating up on the Cowboys yesterday, all of a sudden I find myself smiling again.

 

[LiveWire224]

Damn Skins!!!lol
I wanna b*tch slap Homo-Romo!!lol
I hear ya on the itchy sneezing and all that garbage!!
Im sick again myself, sneezed and blew my nose for 3 F*CKING days straight!!
Keeping my diet on point though.

And chicks, yeah none for me until im 225 and ripped or Jessica Simpson calls me, which ever comes first(so it looks like i'll marry the weights.lol)

Kill those weigths tonite Bro, treat'em like they owe you money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TimberLakers]

You know, it's funny... As angry as I may be on the inside, as soon as I think about the Skins beating up on the Cowboys yesterday, all of a sudden I find myself smiling again.

YeaH!! Go SKINS! :head:

 

[shaddow]

Damn Skins!!!lol
I wanna b*tch slap Homo-Romo!!lol
I hear ya on the itchy sneezing and all that garbage!!
Im sick again myself, sneezed and blew my nose for 3 F*CKING days straight!!
Keeping my diet on point though.

And chicks, yeah none for me until im 225 and ripped or Jessica Simpson calls me, which ever comes first(so it looks like i'll marry the weights.lol)

Kill those weigths tonite Bro, treat'em like they owe you money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Romo didn't do too bad aside from that pick by Horton. You should *****slap Marion Barber, or actually, Jason Garrett for only running the ball 11 times (2 by TO & 1 by Romo). Springs played really well against TO and basically shut him down except for that opening drive of the 2nd half. Boy, when these two teams play it is always a battle. Biggest rivalry in sports, and this game did not disappoint. I got a little nervous in the end after Romo drove downfield for the score and Dallas *almost* got that onside kick back. Hell of a game!

 

[shaddow]

YeaH!! Go SKINS! :head:

Skins fan? And you mentioned Fuddruckers on L St... Are you from the area?

 

[TimberLakers]

Skins fan? And you mentioned Fuddruckers on L St... Are you from the area?

Lived / worked in Georgetown as an intern while I was still in college...

Love DC...

Been a Skins fan since I was about 7 or 8. :head:

 

[VolcomX311]

Timeberlaker is international with his. He's got area codes in the cell phone.

 

[shaddow]

Lived / worked in Georgetown as an intern while I was still in college...

Love DC...

Been a Skins fan since I was about 7 or 8. :head:

Right on, bro! It's a fun city. Lots to do.

GO SKINS!!! :head::head::head:

 

[VolcomX311]

How are your injuries these days?

 

[shaddow]

How are your injuries these days?

My hamstring is feeling pretty good right now. It's still not quite where I want it to be, but it feels good enough that I'm gonna push it harder this week. I actually can't believe it's still not completely healed yet. This whole ordeal has just been crazy. I wanna do squats, goddammit, but I know that when I finally go in and give it a shot I'll be struggling to put up 135. It's gonna be a slow progression, that's for sure.

It's kinda frustrating to know that it all happened one drunken night when I thought it would be a good idea to grapple with a friend who's got 30 pounds and 16 years of grappling experience on me. What was I thinking? Wait, I don't think I was thinking...

Everything happens for a reason though, right? I had actually wanted to get back into jiu-jitsu and muay thai and train to compete in mma, but I guess it made me realize that I really don't wanna deal with the injury aspect of the sport. Not that I'm a pussy or anything, but it's more important to me to bodybuild and keep up my physique than kick someone's ass and risk breaking/tearing/pull/rupturing something and not be able to lift. :hammer:

 

[Steveoph]

My hamstring is feeling pretty good right now. It's still not quite where I want it to be, but it feels good enough that I'm gonna push it harder this week. I actually can't believe it's still not completely healed yet. This whole ordeal has just been crazy. I wanna do squats, goddammit, but I know that when I finally go in and give it a shot I'll be struggling to put up 135. It's gonna be a slow progression, that's for sure.

It's kinda frustrating to know that it all happened one drunken night when I thought it would be a good idea to grapple with a friend who's got 30 pounds and 16 years of grappling experience on me. What was I thinking? Wait, I don't think I was thinking...

Everything happens for a reason though, right? I had actually wanted to get back into jiu-jitsu and muay thai and train to compete in mma, but I guess it made me realize that I really don't wanna deal with the injury aspect of the sport. Not that I'm a pussy or anything, but it's more important to me to bodybuild and keep up my physique than kick someone's ass and risk breaking/tearing/pull/rupturing something and not be able to lift. :hammer:

On the plus side you've got muscle memory working for you. The strength and size should come back very quickly man. Just don't jump back into it too early, because you know that will just make the whole process even longer.

 

[shaddow]

On the plus side you've got muscle memory working for you. The strength and size should come back very quickly man. Just don't jump back into it too early, because you know that will just make the whole process even longer.

True, and it's not like I was even pushing that much weight to begin with. I didn't even start squatting until this past year cuz my doctors had always told me not to due to a back injury several years back. It's just a bit frustrating not being able to go full strength. But I'm definitely being smart with it and taking it all a day at a time.

 

[VolcomX311]

16 years of experience, damn. As long as your moving forward, its all good, and keeping a good attitude about it is vital. I'm not weird and out there, like a yoga guru or anything, but google this, "psychoneuroimmunology." It's not mumbo jumbo, but a solidified field of science. Read about this and it may expedite your recovery.

 

[shaddow]

I'm not weird and out there, like a yoga guru or anything, but google this, "psychoneuroimmunology." It's not mumbo jumbo, but a solidified field of science. Read about this and it may expedite your recovery.

The glass is 3/4 full.

 

[shaddow]

Ok, check this **** out:

Middle finger on my right hand. Yep, I'm right-handed. It's always something... That horizontal blood line is where the nail is split open and it's barely attached on each side. I'd say it's split about 85% of the way across. I give it another week, maybe two tops, before it comes off.

It's ****ing weird as hell, man!!! But what can you do?!? JUST ONE MORE REASON TO BE PISSED OFF!!!! :aargh::aargh::aargh: TODAY IS CHEST & BICEPS!!! NOTHING IS STOPPING ME TONIGHT!!!! :aargh::aargh::aargh::aargh:

 

[thundergod]

Ok. It's always something...
It's ****ing weird as hell, man!!! But what can you do?!? JUST ONE MORE REASON TO BE PISSED OFF!!!! :aargh::aargh::aargh: TODAY IS CHEST & BICEPS!!! NOTHING IS STOPPING ME TONIGHT!!!! :aargh::aargh::aargh::aargh:

Yeah, it is always something. And it always will be. It's the order of things. Yin-yang, you know. Everytime I'm filled with the Odin-Force and am on top of things, Loki always comes around to poke and prod at me. :stick: But that always strengthens my resolve and makes me harder and tempered, more durable. I am forged in the flames as much as my mallet mjolnir was. :hammer: Keep fighting against all these odds that are stacked against you my brother. :duel: Odin be with you always!! :box:

 

[TimberLakers]

What the hell did you do to your finger man?

 

[Steveoph]

What the hell did you do to your finger man?

Reminds me of when I dropped the 50" TV on my hand... yea

 

[rolandajoint]

Soon enough, bro! How's the rehab going?

its going okay. my joint is feeling great, but i feel my tendonitis has only decreased. tried some chest pressing movements today and i felt it a lot. tho with cable flyes i felt close to no pain.

probably going to need to hit up a sports doctor for the official diagnosis and plan of rehab for this damn tendonitis. on top of being a little depressed from unemployment, i cant hit heavy shoulders and chest!

oh well. patience patience patience. glad yours is going well. its inspiration for anyone with an injury.

 

[shaddow]

Day 9: Monday, September 29 - Update #2

Weight: 182.8 (+2)

Workout # 4 on stack - chest & biceps!!

Between my finger, my allergies, congestion, a stomach ache, and just a shitty ass day overall, I was lethargic as hell and didn't even wanna be at the gym, but I channeled that anger and pushed to the best of my abilities regardless. I am gonna eat and go to sleep. Hopefully I feel better tomorrow.

Dumbbells! You know the drill.

Incline bench press
30 x 20
70 x 12
80 x 10
90 x FAIL. ****! I hate this ****. I can't get the 90's up. I *KNOW* I can rep them if I can just get them started, but for some reason I haven't been able to force that first rep up. THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING. :aargh: Grrrr...
85 x 9

I'm up 1 rep on those 85's from last week, but I won't be happy until I'm repping those 90's at least 8x.

Flat bench press
75 x 12
85 x 10
95 x 8

Up 5lbs. on my last set PLUS an extra rep vs last week's 90lb final flat press set, so that's a bit of an improvement. I wanna get 100's up 8x though, dammit.

Incline dumbbell flies
50 x 12
60 x 10
70 x 6

These 70's were heavy as ****! Damn!

Pec deck
190 x 12
205 x 10
220 x 7

Dumbbell curls
20 x 20
40 x 12
45 x 8

That last set was a little uncomfortable so I decided to move onto cable curls.

100 x 12
120 x 10
140 x 8

That's it. I pushed and pushed, but that's all I had the energy for today. It wasn't a bad workout, the intensity was there, but it's just been a shitty ass day for me. I'm still having difficulty breathing through my nose, and I'm congested as hell. I really hope I don't get sick. It's that time of year though...

Anyways, it's food time. I'm not hungry at all. WTF? Bad sign. Gotta eat though. I'm gonna push through this. I refuse to get sick. Just opened my bottle of Noxidant. Hope this stuff helps... Time to break out the tea, throw back some food, and take a nice hot shower.

 

[shaddow]

What the hell did you do to your finger man?

Smashed it between a couple 45# plates. Initially there was just an indentation in my nail, but it eventually cracked, and now it looks pretty ****ed up. I caught it on my shirt at the gym today and a chunk came off, so it looks even funkier. Good times.

 

[metroba]

Damn man that really sucks about the finger! You got the sh1t wrapped up?