beamen28
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hey i know that progesterone can led to gyno and other estrogen side effects, however ive heard people say before that nolva doen't work when it comes to blocking it. i was woundering what does?
B12 is supposed to as well but this is new to me and I don't have anything to say about this except b12 would be a hell of a lot safer then Bromo.
nope that one doesn't work (though winny and fina go great togather). winny does bind to the progesterone sites but only weakly, far too weakly to give the progesterone any real problemsi was thinking about running a cycle with fina in it, and know that progesterone is a common problem with fina. so it would probably be best just to keep nolva on hand. i read somewhere that vitix works to control progesterone, but that stuff is pretty week. i have also heard that winstrol may block the progesterone reseptor and i was thinking about sacking that with fina anyway. what do u guys think?
how much vitex did you take a dayi've had problems w/ prog before from fina, but vitex got rid of it.
Now i stack winny w/ fina usually and take vitex, seems to work rather well for me as i have not had a problem since.
yeah man im just trying to be cautious, thanks for your advicehave you had a problem with prog gyno before? or just trying to be cautious?
just watch your dosage on the fina, dont do anything too high espcially your first time around you should get good results off something like 75mg EOD, i cant be sure because i dont know what the rest of your cycle looks like. Also just be careful what it's stacked with and i wouldn't worry too much.
if problems arise, cut back the dosage or stop the fina altogether and hit up the vitex, you'll be fine.
now if you have had previous problems or are prone to it, then disregard everything i've said above and look into getting some bromo or ru-486.
Right on both counts Bro. I'm not sure that I would put any fath into it though.i think it is B6, but I have not really researched it much. Just take a B-complex to cover it
Estrogen is the real gyno culprit.
Afread not. A lot of people still think winny is a good anti-progesterone. Even after its been debunked a hundred times.DO the myths ever end?!?!?!
Ofcourse....i forgot about the prolactin receptor..but aren't there just 3 major receptors..as far as aas are concerned?
We have the androgen receptor's...the estrogen receptors..and the progesterone receptors...
Seldom have i heard of the prolactin receptor. Using an anti-progestin would be expensive if u take a branded product...but not if u buy bulk from a chinese source. I checked the price from one of the suppliers..and though they don't supply below 1 kg often....they listed the price of 10grams as $120. Which in my opinion is quite acceptable.
Also with aas there is more activation of progesterone receptor than prolactin. So blocking the prog. receptor would be wiser. If u can get a mix of 6 grams proviron.....5 grams of ru486...and 8 grams tamoxifen citrate..all for around $100.....it's a pretty good pct for ur money.
This is excellent, and I had no idea.Tamoxifen inhibits prolactin signal transduction in ER - NOG-8 mammary epithelial cells.
Das R, Vonderhaar BK.
Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD 20892-1402, [email protected]
Tamoxifen (TAM), an antiestrogen, also acts as an antilactogen in mammary cells. In the present study we analyze the effect of TAM on the signal transduction pathway for prolactin (Prl). TAM bound specifically to NOG-8, an estrogen receptor-negative mammary cell line. Within 5 min of Prl treatment, raf-1, MEK and MAP kinase were induced 2-3-fold over the control level. TAM completely inhibited this Prl-induced activation of kinases as well as Prl binding and cell growth. These results indicate the potential role of TAM as an antilactogen in Prl responsive systems.
(3)Fertil Steril 1995 Oct;64(4):818-24 Related Articles, Links
However, I don't think writing on your C cup bra "my tits are only caused by overgrowth of alveolar breast tissue" it'll make the gawkers look away just because it's not estrogen induced ductal growth.
has anyone any experience with "dostinex" or its generic form "Cabaser". I've heard that its the ****I think u would be o.k wivh nolvadex..proviron and some b6 if u like.
Why B6? Last time I checked the only effect was on lactating women which if far from any hormonal profile a man will experience. Your best best is to run a low dose AI plus a SERM.ok, i plan on a test/tren cycle in a few months. i have plenty of nolva and i even got the bromo after a recommendation. i was told to take a small, like quarter pill, amount of the bromo to keep the prolactin/prog problems down. i get sore nips on test alone so i have to run nolva anyway throughtout a cycle.
would it just be advisable to just run the nolva, b6 maybe, and hold off on the bromo, due to the sides you all state, and have it as a backup?
Prolactin does not cause gyno, it only contributes to an existing condition in which estrogen is present.has anyone any experience with "dostinex" or its generic form "Cabaser". I've heard that its the ****
for lowering prolactin levels and sorting that out. I understand both deca and especially tren can cause prolactin
induced gyne. I want to run deca and tren together so I'm trying to
gather some information in that area. At 40 - enough of the men I know have titties - I don't want to
join them!
But Deca (progestins in general) upregulate the ER (because of the drop in T(1) so the amount needed is very small and prolactin and/or progesterone will only make situation worse. Also IGF-1 might be more of a culprit as Tren and Deca show a much more profound effect on increasing hepatic IGF-1 than most other androgens (Tren being the highest). SO when you look at all the theoretical possibilities, prolactin and/or progesterone do not have much of a direct effect in th whole situation and your best best is still Nolva. Estrogen, GH and IGF-1 are more the culprti than anything. We also aren't even taking into account that hyperprolactinemia is often associated with secondary hypogonadism, so in essence those people that think its Deca (or any progestins action) on the PR are probalby mistaken.But again, you're neglecting the cases where gyno occurs in which people are using only deca. This situation will leave an abnormally low systemic estrogen level but eill dramatically elevate prolactin levels.....gyno ensues (of course not always). Prolactin is a big player in the picture. All studies aside, people that formerly saw gyno while using deca and test, who then used B6 at 200 mg/day on a subsequent cycle with the same compounds, had no issues with gyno symptoms.
it's common play to add B6 to all progestin-containing cycles now, and it's made a significant difference in the occurrences of gyno
But Deca (progestins in general) upregulate the ER (because of the drop in T(1) so the amount needed is very small and prolactin and/or progesterone will only make situation worse. Also IGF-1 might be more of a culprit as Tren and Deca show a much more profound effect on increasing hepatic IGF-1 than most other androgens (Tren being the highest). SO when you look at all the theoretical possibilities, prolactin and/or progesterone do not have much of a direct effect in th whole situation and your best best is still Nolva. Estrogen, GH and IGF-1 are more the culprti than anything. We also aren't even taking into account that hyperprolactinemia is often associated with secondary hypogonadism, so in essence those people that think its Deca (or any progestins action) on the PR are probalby mistaken.
As far as B6, I've seen many use it have zero effects and that is concurent with most published data. As for it being common place, I see it being more a myth than anything.
Testosterone inhibits estrogen-induced mammary epithelial proliferation and suppresses estrogen receptor expression
JIAN ZHOU, SIU NG, O. ADESANYA-FAMUIYA, KRISTIN ANDERSON and CAROLYN A. BONDY1
Developmental Endocrinology Branch, NICHD, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland 20892, USA
True, increased prolactin would never be good but generally androgens reduce prolactin anyway so it shouldn't be much of a case in most cycles (although there are always exceptions). I agree with your mindset in that preventing problems is always best but I thnk that most of the evidence points to levels not being that much higer than normal and the situation is worsened because of the upregulation of the ER and drop in total T. But I think at this point we're speculating anyway.....a cheap preventitive is alwyas wise in any case.
Entrez PubMedRESULTS: For study biopsy-confirmed ER+ and/or PgR+ cases that received letrozole, 60% responded and 48% underwent successful breast-conserving surgery. The response to tamoxifen was inferior (41%, P =.004), and fewer patients underwent breast conservation (36%, P =.036). Differences in response rates between letrozole and tamoxifen were most marked for tumors that were positive for ErbB-1 and/or ErbB-2 and ER (88% v 21%, P =.0004). CONCLUSION: ER+, ErbB-1+, and/or ErbB-2+ primary breast cancer responded well to letrozole, but responses to tamoxifen were infrequent.
Entrez PubMedMETHODS: Twenty rats were divided into two groups: a control group (C) of ten rats that received vehicle only (0.9% NaCl solution) once daily p.o. and a treatment group (T) of ten animals administered letrozole at a concentration of 1 mg/kg p.o. dissolved in 0.9% NaCl solution once daily during 21 days. RESULTS: An increase in the LH, FSH and testosterone serum concentrations was observed in letrozole-treated rats. Estradiol and progesterone showed a considerable reduction.