anabolic diet confusion

[CryingEmo]

WHen you get really strict on AD you can try some tactics like,

Between meals have a BCCA shake, but space meals out farther apart. Have ALL carbs come from green vegeies like spinach.


So eat 4 - 5 hundred cal meals a day. Drink a bcaa shake between each meal with 10-15 bcaa's. Drop your carb instake closer to 20 a day, some of the bcaa's with gluconegenesize.

 

[Neil5585]

Me personally what I find to work is to drop to just one cheat meal a week and up the cardio (7 days/week). This is assuming calories are decently low. Calories likely should be in the low 2000 range. cardio should be low intensity so you're burning fat instead of carbs. If you can't drop fat with this then something is seriously wrong.

 

[scotty2]

Fat seems to be coming off, just a WHOLE lot slower than usual or expected. Only down 6 lbs., somewhere between 3-3.5" on waist, while maintaining all strength. It's working, just don't feel like dieting for a year. I'll try the 2 day refeed followed by 2000 cals/day next week if the new caloric level is not productive.

 

[mmorpheuss]

....

 

[mmorpheuss]

Me personally what I find to work is to drop to just one cheat meal a week and up the cardio (7 days/week). This is assuming calories are decently low. Calories likely should be in the low 2000 range. cardio should be low intensity so you're burning fat instead of carbs. If you can't drop fat with this then something is seriously wrong.

dont forget that you are dealing with a 280+ pound individual. As far as cardio that drops fat and not carbs......????

While I agree with the statement in application I'm not so sure the reasoning is sound.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Fat seems to be coming off, just a WHOLE lot slower than usual or expected. Only down 6 lbs., somewhere between 3-3.5" on waist, while maintaining all strength. It's working, just don't feel like dieting for a year. I'll try the 2 day refeed followed by 2000 cals/day next week if the new caloric level is not productive.

Please Revisit 36-44 in your manual.


A lot of advice given thus far has been from individuals unfamiliar with Di Pasquales diet specifically; therefore, they are unaccustomed to the things you are experiencing firsthand.

Firstly, this is unlike many other CKDs. You will not experience the customary drastic loss of glycogen or water that you will on some of the other diets, so dont expect it.

The reason I have implored you to reread 36-44 is to hopefully get you back on track in accordance to the book. I have sensed some trepidation that shouldn't exist, as your week to week plan is pretty much laid out for you by Dr. Di Pasquale as far as calories and reductions go.

Establish your maintenance calories, drop 1000 the first week, and then drop 500 each additional until you are experiencing the 1.5-2 pounds of BODYFAT loss per week that is your goal.

This is where it gets tricky. The scale doesn't discriminate. Alot of this is going to have to be something you develop over time.

I would recommend cutting down on the weigh in sessions- weigh yourself at the same time midweek, every week- and be sure to avoid weighing during or immediately after the weekend.

Above all, don't cut down to one carb meal. Thats a totally different diet, and we're not talking about that one.
You may however, might want to examine what you are eating on the weekends. One, if you are truly getting your caloric requirements (as per the manual), and two, are you avoiding the junk.

The best bet for you may be to take things back to phase one. Establish your maintenance phase, and then begin cutting in accordance to the book. Stick to the plan, don't get depressed by good things like losing inches even though the scale remains the same, and keep dropping the cals by 500 per week until the results you are looking for become evident.

 

[mmorpheuss]

I must reiterate this.

Some of these good people have gotten you off the track that the MANUAL intended you to be on.

While they are well meaning individuals, they have provided advice that totally flies in the face of what you are trying to accomplish via the Anabolic Diet.

After rereading the posts a few things that have stood out to me are the caloric reductions are spotty and undisciplined, weekends haven't been as productive as they should be calorically, and for some reason you included a guesstimation of bodyfat % into your math for the purposes of determining your daily calorie intake.

Best thing (once again ) would likely be for you to start over and this time stick to the plan.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Most of the weight loss comes from glycogen and water weight loss. To lose fat, you first become fat adapted, and then you start cutting the fat from your diet, while protein and carbs stay relatively the same. That way your body burns fat for energy instead of glycogen.

1) Completely untrue. 2) Wrong diet.
That isn't good advice at all in the context of this threads topic.

 

[Neil5585]

mmorpheuss, yeah, what I was talking about is different from the original Anabolic Diet. However what I was considering is that DiPasquale worked with Poliquin to come up with a diet, and it ends up when you're heavier, there's no PWO carbs, and just ONE cheat meal per week. That's awfully similar to Polumbo's diet, too. Also the calories I was taking into consideration DiPasquale's Radical Diet which dips much lower in calories (fat).

But if we're going to stick to the original Anabolic Diet hardcore, then nevermind. I just figured that DiPasquale has made changes depending on different variables since then.

 

[scotty2]

Don't have the book in front of me, I'm assuming you refer to The Metabolic Diet and not The Anabolic Solution, asI do not have the latter. I started just as the book outlines. First 10 weeks were textbook. Nowhere did I read a suggestion for bodyweight X 10. So, there is the trepidation of which you speak. Currently, my intake has gone under the X 10 mark, which I am slightly uncomfortable with. Going to start incorporating a 2nd cardio session(did 2 30 min. elliptical sessions today).

 

[mmorpheuss]

Your thread title led me to believe we were talking about this:

The Anabolic Diet

 

[scotty2]

Tells me there was an error, file cannot be found.

 

[Neil5585]

Your thread title led me to believe we were talking about this:

I don't think it's proper to post copywrited material like that.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Tells me there was an error, file cannot be found.

try it now

 

[mmorpheuss]

mmorpheuss, yeah, what I was talking about is different from the original Anabolic Diet. However what I was considering is that DiPasquale worked with Poliquin to come up with a diet, and it ends up when you're heavier, there's no PWO carbs, and just ONE cheat meal per week. That's awfully similar to Polumbo's diet, too. Also the calories I was taking into consideration DiPasquale's Radical Diet which dips much lower in calories (fat).

But if we're going to stick to the original Anabolic Diet hardcore, then nevermind. I just figured that DiPasquale has made changes depending on different variables since then.

By heavier you mean bodyfat% and not just weight, right?

Both the metabolic diet and the radical diet were not intended for bodybuilders or powerlifters. Definitely not for guys that reach for the 145's when they need to do arnold presses.

The anabolic diet and recently anabolic solution are geared towards us.

 

[scotty2]

Definitely not for guys that reach for the 145's when they need to do arnold presses.

The anabolic diet and recently anabolic solution are geared towards us.

125s I was under the impression that there was little to distinguish The Metabolic Diet from what is written in The Anabolic Solution. If so, I guess I have to purchase that now as well.

 

[Neil5585]

Someone that's very fat and looking to drop the fat is going to do better with one cheat meal a week. That's what I thought this thread was about...trying to lose a good amount of fat. Not trying to press 145's.

Poliquin and DiPasquale came up with this. Dave Polumbo also uses this with competitive bodybuilders to diet down into contest shape (i.e. lose a lot of fat and retain muscle). If the two carb days worked better in this situation, they would use it, but they don't.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Someone that's very fat and looking to drop the fat is going to do better with one cheat meal a week. That's what I thought this thread was about...trying to lose a good amount of fat. Not trying to press 145's.

Poliquin and DiPasquale came up with this. Dave Polumbo also uses this with competitive bodybuilders to diet down into contest shape (i.e. lose a lot of fat and retain muscle). If the two carb days worked better in this situation, they would use it, but they don't.

From Di Pasquale himself- The Metabolic diet was never meant for athletes and bodybuilders. Before the anabolic solution they were still using the anabolic diet.

My allusion to his strength was meant to illustrate that we are dealing with an athlete here, not a stay at home mom or a college kid trying to work off the hohos he had in high school.

As for the topic of this thread, it struck me that the topic of this thread was help with a specific diet. The anabolic diet, in particular, due to it's being the title?

 

[Neil5585]

My allusion to his strength was meant to illustrate that we are dealing with an athlete here, not a stay at home mom or a college kid trying to work off the hohos he had in high school.

Because Poliquin doesn't work with athletes.....

 

[mmorpheuss]

Because Poliquin doesn't work with athletes.....

No...

because the diets I keep alluding to weren't meant to be athlete specific.

Now thats better.

And lose the Poliquin stuff. This isn't a thread about exercise physiology or strength training.
If anything the revisions made to the original Anabolic Diet should be credited to Rob Fagin. Not that you would know that.

 

[mmorpheuss]

Someone that's very fat and looking to drop the fat is going to do better with one cheat meal a week.

Not necessarily. The "cheat meals", as you call them, aren't just there to "cheat" with. Plenty of people will get diminished results with such a short carb load only once per week, and bodyfat percentage isn't the controlling factor in this determination.

Poliquin and DiPasquale came up with this.

Wrong.

Dave Polumbo also uses this with competitive bodybuilders to diet down into contest shape

He also uses IGF-1 and various other goodies. Quite the contrast to what Di Pasquale is even all about. Isn't it?

 

[mmorpheuss]

If so, I guess I have to purchase that now as well.

I don't believe so.
There are alot of whole pages from the anabolic diet (original) that are simply regurgitated into the Solution redo. What you have in conjunction with the Anabolic Diet should suffice, as well as make some things easier to understand in light of viewing certain theories in their original form.

 

[Neil5585]

I'll tend to listen to people like Poliquin and Palumbo on this issue instead of some no-name on the internet. They have tons of experience...Poliquin with athletes as well as bodybuilders, and Palumbo with bodybuilders (and ones not loaded up on drugs, too).

No duh the cheat meal is used for more than the sake of cheating. But I guess you're smarter than Poliquin and have more experience as well as better results than him with getting athletes and bodybuilders in shape.

 

[mmorpheuss]

are we talking about training or Di Pasquales diet?

Make up your mind, and lets get back on track (remember the thread title?)Poliquin didn't develop this diet. He didn't help with the original either. So if you are talking about the anabolic diet dropping his name or palumbo's is useless.

Even if it is used by 200 lb'ers to give 300 pound guys half-step advice.

 

[Neil5585]

When was I ever talking about training? This thread has become a useless pissing match.

Poliquin uses one cheat meal to get fat people lean. He uses it because it produces RESULTS, and RESULTS better than doing 2 cheat days. Maybe you're in denial about that. He goes off of RESULTS based on his EXPERIENCE working with athletes, bodybuilders, and even more regular types.

I don't care if he wasn't the originator of the diet. Guess what! Vince Gironda was using this even before DiPasquale, so you dropping DiPasquale's name is useless (like that makes sense...it's a sarcastic analogy).

Even with the original Anabolic Diet it wasn't even set in stone to do 2 days. He said to experiment based on results. Some guys might do 2 days, some guys less than 1 day. And you know what, based on the RESULTS Poliquin has determined fat guys should limit it to 1 cheat MEAL every 5-7 days for RESULTS when it comes to losing FAT.

 

[mmorpheuss]

I don't care if he wasn't the originator of the diet. .

You should, since it was you who erroneously claimed he developed the anabolic diet with Mauro Di Pasquale.

You've been back peddling and subject changing ever since, and it's quite pathetic.

This thread was titled using the ANABOLIC DIET. Which happens to be the title of Dr Di Pasquales book.

It isn't titled CKD help. If it were, your reference to Vince would have been relevant, so stop trying to cover for your incorrect claim that the anabolic/metabolic diet/solution was a collaboration between Di Pasquale and Poliquin, which was the only reason you kept waving his name like a banner in all of your posts.

You were wrong. It happens. Get over it.

As was I, I might add. I thought this thread was about the book listed in the title. Anyone needing help with that book hit me up.

 

[scotty2]

Ummm, I could still use a little help. OK, so, technically, I'm on the "Metabolic Diet" apparently. I did everything textbook for awhile. Only thing, I started at X 15 instead of X 18.(5000+ cals was obscene). Even at 4500 cals, I still gained 5 lbs out of the gate. As I read in the book, the induction phase is bw X 18 for 2 weeks, followed by either cutting or bulking. I dropped 500 cals/week until I came to BW X 12. I don't remeber reading anything abuot dropping 500 cals/week until you find the sweet spot. I was under the impression the cals would be adjusted as the weight changed. I thought I read it carefully, I think I'm going to pick it up again, beacuse now I'm unsure. Anyway, I think something has kicked in, pants are looser. Strength was a touch off today, but, not as much rest between sets as I usually take. So, that's where I am now. If you see anything askew, feel free.

 

[Neil5585]

You should, since it was you who erroneously claimed he developed the anabolic diet with Mauro Di Pasquale.

You've been back peddling and subject changing ever since, and it's quite pathetic.

This thread was titled using the ANABOLIC DIET. Which happens to be the title of Dr Di Pasquales book.

It isn't titled CKD help. If it were, your reference to Vince would have been relevant, so stop trying to cover for your incorrect claim that the anabolic/metabolic diet/solution was a collaboration between Di Pasquale and Poliquin, which was the only reason you kept waving his name like a banner in all of your posts.

You were wrong. It happens. Get over it.

As was I, I might add. I thought this thread was about the book listed in the title. Anyone needing help with that book hit me up.

First off I (and I'm sure everyone else) appreciate your posts that don't contain any content aside from idiotic insults and straw man debate tactics. That's impressive to high school kids.

Oh and it's nice that you put up copyrited material for people to download. What a class act.

"However what I was considering is that DiPasquale worked with Poliquin to come up with a diet, and it ends up when you're heavier, there's no PWO carbs, and just ONE cheat meal per week."

I never said Poliquin helped DiPasquale with the Anabolic Diet (straw man tactic...idiot). I said Poliquin worked with DiPasquale to come up with the version POLIQUIN uses that produces results, which you like to brush off and just insult me instead.

Oh! And scotty isn't even on the original Anabolic Diet! Wow, all that harping on THE ANABOLIC DIET for no fvcking reason. I'm trying to help the guy but instead you keep harping on sticking to the ANABOLIC DIET when the guy requesting help isn't even following that exact diet! Sheesh, what an idiot. I'm done with this thread.




And sorry, scotty. Sounds good if you're making progress again. Keep going with it until it stops, then maybe something can be changed. Keep things simple.

 

[mmorpheuss]

I never said Poliquin helped DiPasquale with the Anabolic Diet (straw man tactic...idiot). I said Poliquin worked with DiPasquale to come up with the version POLIQUIN uses that produces results, which you like to brush off and just insult me instead.

Actually you said this:

Poliquin and DiPasquale came up with this.

What is "this"?

It sure isn't the title of this thread.

It isn't the actual book being discussed either.

So it's the one in your head? Was I supposed to know that? Are you honestly blaming me for your inability to be succinct?

Don't falsely accuse me of insulting you just because you feel insulted. I attack the post, not the poster. You just happen to be on a roll right now.

By the way. I linked to a website, Mister "class act".

You get bent out of shape like this every time someone links to youtube?

 

[mmorpheuss]

I'm trying to help the guy

By dropping him to 2000 cals and a 30 min carb load per week? Lessening the carb load time is specifically for those who tend to start laying down bodyfat faster during the carb up phase. I haven't read anything that has led me to believe that is what is occurring here. You just happened to jump the gun, thats all.

Bottom line is the original anabolic/metabolic diet and the anabolic solution... it's basically the same diet. I tried to help with a specific diet whereas you tried to help by telling the guy to change diets. That was smart.

Do you even own the book you are talking about? Do you own the one Scotty is talking about? Or its bodybuilder oriented cousin? (which I do)

Or are you freestyling to the tune of a book you have limited experience with?

Exactly.

Typing Poliquin's name doesn't make up for your lack of extensive personal experience with the topic.

Pretending to have it...now thats a REAL class act right there.

Scotty -I'll hit you up. My apologies for hijacking the thread.

 

[dawaro]

Ummm, I could still use a little help. OK, so, technically, I'm on the "Metabolic Diet" apparently. I did everything textbook for awhile. Only thing, I started at X 15 instead of X 18.(5000+ cals was obscene).

This may be to blame for the slow response. Metabolism is a funny thing. By limiting the calories at the start your body is in a sense dieting. Until it adjust to that intake it is going to fight to hold on to what it already has by slowing down the metabolism. If you are starting to see results stick to the book, it is working.
You want to see slow steady results and then make adjustments when they stop. One problem a lot of people have with dieting is they make adjustments too fast and have their metabolism all out of whack. Plus drastic changes too fast are going to cause you to lose an increased amount of muscle, therefor slowing your metabolism down and requiring more reductions in calories and starting the viscious cycle that just keeps going.
Good luck with the diet!

 

[dawaro]

Poliquin uses one cheat meal to get fat people lean. He uses it because it produces RESULTS, and RESULTS better than doing 2 cheat days. Maybe you're in denial about that. He goes off of RESULTS based on his EXPERIENCE working with athletes, bodybuilders, and even more regular types.

I may be wrong, and I dont want to get into a pissing match, but is it an actual cheat day or a carb up?
Also keep in mind that Poliquin is working with people on an individual basis. I addition to working their diet they also have user specific routines. That is something you will never get out of a book.

 

[scotty2]

Quick update......Strength has pretty much stayed static. Pretty close to zero loss in strength I would say. weight has come down to about 270-272 somewhere in there. Waist has come down 5". Slow as sh1t, but results are there. Guess I'll just stay on as long as necessary. Calories are all the way down to 2200/day. Carb-ups are only one day(12-14 hours)

 

[scotty2]

Another update for anyone interested. Well, 8 months is a long time. I'm down to 250. 8" off the waist. Caloric intake down to 1900/day. Changed my workout over to a more hypertrophy focused routine, so, can't say for certain about the strength loss, but, I would say it's minimal. Started recreate/DCP stack on Monday. If anyone is interested in the results, I'd be more than happy to post. Anyway, this diet DOES work, just not used to being on a diet this long. This week is week 36, lost 41lbs. So, I guess I'm right on track. If no further interest, I'll post my end results with a pic perhaps.

 

[JDF]

WoW - sick results and congrats!!!!

 

[Botch]

Yes, very nice results!

 

[Botch]

Hey Scotty, hope you don't mind that I quoted you over in this thread where we have been discussing the anabolic diet recently. I think people will be interested in reading about your results.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/99929-ck-anabolic-diet-9.html#post1559651

 

[scotty2]

no prob, even posted an addendum

 

[scotty2]

OK, through 38 weeks. Down to 246. About 9" in waist. Here is my daily supplementation:

Recreate X3
DCP X7
Primordial CLA EE X8
NP fish oil X10
(adding NP green tea when I receieve it) X3

comments and/or suggestions

 

[mmorpheuss]

Good job so far. You should be congratulated for your vigilance.

I know it seems odd to be on a diet for as long as you have, however, the best results are achieved when eating like this turns into a lifestyle rather than a short-term diet.

Once you get down to something you are comfortable with, I hope you continue to update us with your results bulking with this diet.

IMO, that is when this program begins to border on the miraculous.

 

[scotty2]

As of 10/25(41 weeks) down to 240.5 and just about 10" on waist. Strength has taken a hit. Trying to rationalize that mentally as just a leverage thing from having lost 50lbs. I'm a little discouraged by the supplementation, all those supps and the fat loss is not really much faster than without it. Really just looking forward to getting done with this so I can shift focus to putting some back on.

 

[steelhorse]

I don't have the metabolism for a low carb diet to work. I burn of so much I need a high carb diet.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I don't have the metabolism for a low carb diet to work. I burn of so much I need a high carb diet.

Burn of so much what?

 

[scotty2]

I'm about to start week 52 of this journey. For the record, there has been no cheating(some crappy carb-ups indeed). Went on vacation twice over the duration of the diet(planned non dieting not cheating). My last vacation in early November for 12 days of no dieting saw me gain 22lbs.(roughly 17lbs. of water). Anyway, took me nearly 8 weeks to get back to where I was prior to vacation. This diet is puzzling like that sometimes. I've come all the way down to 1600 ca;s/day average. Still, no real effect on strength. However, scale and/or tape not really responding, or responding very slowly. Started HIIT couple weeks ago, seems to be making a difference. I'm open for comments/suggestions. Just trying to see this thing through. BTW, down to 236 now, 11" on waist.

 

[scotty2]

Forgot all about this thread, figured I would update, for anyone still interested. Still on the diet, still at 1600 /day. My % of fat consumed has come down to about 29%. Down to 213 as of last Friday morning. Tape has me at about 14.5" down in the waist. Strength has still maintained believe it or not. Think I'm in the homestretch here, vascularity has increased. Starting eviscerate with flawless to draw out the bottom 2 abs.

 

[youngandfree]

Forgot all about this thread, figured I would update, for anyone still interested. Still on the diet, still at 1600 /day. My % of fat consumed has come down to about 29%. Down to 213 as of last Friday morning. Tape has me at about 14.5" down in the waist. Strength has still maintained believe it or not. Think I'm in the homestretch here, vascularity has increased. Starting eviscerate with flawless to draw out the bottom 2 abs.

Good job! How many total pounds have you lost? I'm glad you stuck with it since most people wouldn't have that much discipline. Also what is your target weight goal? At some point, you are going to have to help your body maintain that. I don't know if you will be able to maintain on 1600 cals a day forever. When you start to add them back after reaching your goal, make sure you do it slowly. 200 or 300 a day for couple weeks, then 200 more for a couple weeks. If you go back to "normal" eating you will rebound too hard, like on your vacation. Your body will adapt to staying the lower weight and you should be able to stay lighter permanantly.

 

[scotty2]

Lost over 80lbs. No real weight goal, just trying to rid myself of this last bit of fat. I agree with you, my plan for bulking is to add ony a couple hundred cals/week until the goal is reached. First thing is to reinstate the 2 day carb up before anything else.

 

[UKStrength]

That's incredible mate Good job. Make sure you let everyone know how your flawless run goes in the contest prep section, there's a load of us wanting feedback on that product for stretchmark treatment. Thanks boss.

 

[coreanitaloca]

Forgot all about this thread, figured I would update, for anyone still interested. Still on the diet, still at 1600 /day. My % of fat consumed has come down to about 29%. Down to 213 as of last Friday morning. Tape has me at about 14.5" down in the waist. Strength has still maintained believe it or not. Think I'm in the homestretch here, vascularity has increased. Starting eviscerate with flawless to draw out the bottom 2 abs.

You said you're down to 1600/day - are you doing any calorie shifting throughout the week or just keeping it at 1600 a day period? Maybe the calorie shifting throughout the week could help along with a mix of the HIIT and increased NEAT?

 

[scotty2]

Calories are cycled and average out to 1600/day. My carb day can go as high as 4000 cals. So, if you factor in that day.........you could say I average close to 2000 cals/day. I've dropped under 210(about 209.5), so, I have cut my cardio back just a bit, as I am beginning to look leaner. This eviscerate may actually be working. I also just started taking LIPO 6 BLACK on monday. We'll see.