An AndroEnhance bridge/taper into pct trial. Solo (almost)

[mattikus]

I have been on an extended run of anabolics for several months. Often at just a low "replacement" level dosage. Of course now my natural hormone production is almost nonexistent. About a month ago I decided to work on an hpta reboot. After dropping all external androgens of course I expected to feel the post cycle blues.

This is where AndroEnhance comes in. The plan is to use AE as sort of a 'bridge' into pct. With a very low dose of androgens and hopefully very minimal suppression, I will be trying to get the ol' hpta gears turning. The 11 keto plus super 4-dhea will be utilized at a dose that will keep my brain happy with some androgens still floating around the bloodstream, and keep motivation up while retaining as much muscle mass as possible of course.

Why not just do a typical pct you ask? After plenty of experience with anabolics, cycling and my own recovery, I know for a fact that recovery will be a long process for me this time. I was admittedly a bit reckless. So there are a few possible outcomes with this experiment. Ideally, the AE dose will be enough to keep me motivated, retain muscle, and keep fat gain under control while allowing a (partial) recovery of natural production. Or I might be just prolonging the process of recovery completely by using another androgen. The only real benefit to this is it will be a bit of a taper into pct, instead of just dropping everything from a high dose straight into pct.

I will be taking clomiphene (citrate) at 50 mg every other day for the duration. Also will be utilizing BPS' Formasurge at a moderate dose throughout.

About two weeks ago all esters and external androgens should have been completely cleared. I started the Clomid and Formasurge immediately. I didn't have the AE yet.

For one week I of course had very little motivation, sex drive, or energy. To be expected of course. About a week ago, the AE arrived and have been using it at 3 pumps every morning. I definitely notice an increase in drive and motivation. Not like being 'on' but much better than before using it. Productivity in the gym seem to be better as well. Sex drive is still so so, but I definitely feel great and can perform without any problems. Before the AE sex drive was pretty much nonexistent. I have only been using it a week so I do not have alot to report.

I realize that this is not what the product was marketed for and many people may scoff at this plan. Based on my previous experience with 11 oxo/keto, 4 dhea, recovery, and Primordial Performance I decided to give this a shot. If I can begin a solid recovery while keeping muscle drive and my maleness, awesome. If not, we can all learn something. So go ahead, give me your thoughts, critiques, forum hi-fives or call me names and tell me you hate me. Either way, I will be periodically updating this for anyone interested.

 

[ryansm]

Well I'm certainly intrigued by your method, although I have never accepted the partial recovery theory while on any hormones. I'll follow along bud and see where this takes you. I'm guessing you didn't use hCG on your cycle? Have you thought about possibly adding in Sustain Alpha and DAA to the mix? How long will you be running this bridge/AE?

 

[mattikus]

Hcg was used periodically and did a short blast at the end. Was planning on saving sustain and the trs for after this little experiment as the final pct. I want to stay on the AE for six weeks and go from there. May get bloods a few times along the way.

 

[HereToStudy]

Interesting. Lets see how it turns out!

 

[ryansm]

Hcg was used periodically and did a short blast at the end. Was planning on saving sustain and the trs for after this little experiment as the final pct. I want to stay on the AE for six weeks and go from there. May get bloods a few times along the way.

Bloods would be great if you can, I mentioned SA and DAA to help with recovery while using the AE but certainly use them in PCT

 

[mattikus]

Just a quick update:

I am liking the androenhance. I definitely feel it is helping me stay lean despite high caloric intake, and muscles seem to be full. I feel great, almost like I am still on full blown cycle. This would be awesome (but probably much more suppressive) at 6 pumps a day. Keeping calories quite high so I expected a bit of fat gain but haven't much if at all. Energy levels are great, motivation high, muscles remain full and strong. I haven't lost any weight (maybe a pound or so) but attribute that to diet mostly. Been taking in a lot of Pepto-Pro as well. As far as recovery, can't say much yet without bloods. I may get them soon but don't know if there is much point while in the middle of attempting recovery. If I do then I will probably skip dosing the AE and Form that day just to get a general idea on things.

 

[HereToStudy]

Nice update.

 

[ryansm]

Just a quick update:

I am liking the androenhance. I definitely feel it is helping me stay lean despite high caloric intake, and muscles seem to be full. I feel great, almost like I am still on full blown cycle. This would be awesome (but probably much more suppressive) at 6 pumps a day. Keeping calories quite high so I expected a bit of fat gain but haven't much if at all. Energy levels are great, motivation high, muscles remain full and strong. I haven't lost any weight (maybe a pound or so) but attribute that to diet mostly. Been taking in a lot of Pepto-Pro as well. As far as recovery, can't say much yet without bloods. I may get them soon but don't know if there is much point while in the middle of attempting recovery. If I do then I will probably skip dosing the AE and Form that day just to get a general idea on things.

I would wait on bloods maybe until the fourth week and then again at the end of PCT and 4 weeks post PCT if you can if money is an issue the most important bloods would be the 4 weeks post PCT to make sure you did recover fully.

 

[MattPorter]

Well considering the tester I had use AndroLean which showed an INCREASE in T levels immediately post cycle is pretty reassuring regarding the super-11 hormone....

As for AndroEnhance --- I believe out original tester Miles just used the older AE with solo 4DHEA --- but lacked any noticeable shutdown.

Super -11 may be an interesting little tool for holding gains post cycle or for brave young lads like yourself using it as a bridge.

-Matt

 

[Austinmck17]

Well considering the tester I had use AndroLean which showed an INCREASE in T levels immediately post cycle is pretty reassuring regarding the super-11 hormone....

As for AndroEnhance --- I believe out original tester Miles just used the older AE with solo 4DHEA --- but lacked any noticeable shutdown.

Super -11 may be an interesting little tool for holding gains post cycle or for brave young lads like yourself using it as a bridge.

-Matt

Awesome! Can you elaborate on your thoughts know super-11 does this

 

[winslow]

Just a quick update:

I am liking the androenhance. I definitely feel it is helping me stay lean despite high caloric intake, and muscles seem to be full. I feel great, almost like I am still on full blown cycle. This would be awesome (but probably much more suppressive) at 6 pumps a day. Keeping calories quite high so I expected a bit of fat gain but haven't much if at all. Energy levels are great, motivation high, muscles remain full and strong. I haven't lost any weight (maybe a pound or so) but attribute that to diet mostly. Been taking in a lot of Pepto-Pro as well. As far as recovery, can't say much yet without bloods. I may get them soon but don't know if there is much point while in the middle of attempting recovery. If I do then I will probably skip dosing the AE and Form that day just to get a general idea on things.

this is a cool experiment; thanks for being the guinea pig. i see all my PP brethren following along, too.

subbed from here on...

-W-

 

[HereToStudy]

this is a cool experiment; thanks for being the guinea pig. i see all my PP brethren following along, too.

subbed from here on...

-W-

I always love when guys develop new protocols for the rest of us

 

[MattPorter]

Awesome! Can you elaborate on your thoughts know super-11 does this

It will do some cool things....Namely lower cortisol conversion by inhibiting the enzyme responsible for this to happen...It will show some anabolic activity aiding in some tissue accretion and retention if dieting.11oxo I believe has some mild anti estrogen effects too....-Matt

 

[Austinmck17]

It will do some cool things....Namely lower cortisol conversion by inhibiting the enzyme responsible for this to happen...It will show some anabolic activity aiding in some tissue accretion and retention if dieting.11oxo I believe has some mild anti estrogen effects too....-Matt

that is awesome, especially the cortisol control I notice from it I am noticing a leaner midsection even though I am bulking

My question was how do you think super-11 creates an environment for higher T levels post cycle? thanks for your thoughts Matt.

 

[HereToStudy]

I have seen him discuss it previously. Can't say for certain, but hormones work in balance, and he stated that the suppression provided by AL (product in question at the time, i believe) might lead to the body increasing testosterone.

 

[MattPorter]

I have seen him discuss it previously. Can't say for certain, but hormones work in balance, and he stated that the suppression provided by AL (product in question at the time, i believe) might lead to the body increasing testosterone.

John is right -- 7oxo and 11oxo can lower estrogen, cortisol and dht -- thus could potentiate a serum T increase'

-Matt

 

[mattikus]

All the reasons Matt and HTS stated are the main reasons this product is a part of my plan. Not really a new idea using it as a bridge, if I remember correctly PA had some positive ideas with11 oxo as a "bridge". The 11 keto and the small dose of super 4 just make sense to me. Everything still going fantastic. I will be switching up my workout routine here soon, and will get into more detail when I am not so busy.

 

[MattPorter]

All the reasons Matt and HTS stated are the main reasons this product is a part of my plan. Not really a new idea using it as a bridge, if I remember correctly PA had some positive ideas with11 oxo as a "bridge". The 11 keto and the small dose of super 4 just make sense to me. Everything still going fantastic. I will be switching up my workout routine here soon, and will get into more detail when I am not so busy.

This is really interesting and I think others will stay in tune with how this works out for you!

This could be a awesome way to go about coming off cycles...

-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

This is really interesting and I think others will stay in tune with how this works out for you!

This could be a awesome way to go about coming off cycles...

-Matt

Yep, it has me thinking

 

[ryansm]

Yep, it has me thinking

I've thought about doing this in the past with 11-oxo, depending on these results I may finally try it

 

[HereToStudy]

I've thought about doing this in the past with 11-oxo, depending on these results I may finally try it

As long as this bloodwork keeps coming back as it has, I see no reason not to.

 

[MattPorter]

I would like to run an experiment on someone ....

Have them run ANY cycle... hell maybe even an advanced cycle say test 500 + dbol for 10 weeks...

Come off -- and run Super-11 ( Androlean or AndroEnhance) once a day in morning and sustain and testosterone conversion factor at night....

Could very very cooo

-Matt

 

[mattikus]

I am so tempted to do 4 or 5 pumps of the AE everyday lol. This stuff is magical at keeping fat gain at bay. I am still lean as can be, and lost a couple pounds despite keeping calories quite high, and not always quality cals either. I took a forced hiatus from the gym for almost a week, (was working a 70 hr week due to special circumstances) and even missed a couple days of AE. I noticed on the days that I did not (dose) the AE my aggression and drive were down a little. Sex drive has slowly been improving, probably starting to become normal (i hope).

 

[MattPorter]

I am so tempted to do 4 or 5 pumps of the AE everyday lol. This stuff is magical at keeping fat gain at bay. I am still lean as can be, and lost a couple pounds despite keeping calories quite high, and not always quality cals either. I took a forced hiatus from the gym for almost a week, (was working a 70 hr week due to special circumstances) and even missed a couple days of AE. I noticed on the days that I did not (dose) the AE my aggression and drive were down a little. Sex drive has slowly been improving, probably starting to become normal (i hope).

I also notice the fat reduction around the mid-section benefits.

I am in desperate need of lowered cortisol as I sit at a desk all day and

deal with clients all around the clock!

-Matt

 

[mattikus]

Sometimes I wish I could just relax behind a desk all day, but then I remember jobs I've had in the past. Sedentary just isn't my style. I would have crazy high cort levels at a boring desk job from driving myself nuts. (Not saying your jobs are boring Matt)

Cortisol is the devil when coming off cycle. I believe that is the probably the biggest player in my muscle loss/fat gain post cycle. Keeping it in check is just making a huge difference. And I like super 11's somewhat unique abilities vs just simply annihilating all cortisol in the body with an anti-cort.

 

[ryansm]

I am so tempted to do 4 or 5 pumps of the AE everyday lol. This stuff is magical at keeping fat gain at bay. I am still lean as can be, and lost a couple pounds despite keeping calories quite high, and not always quality cals either. I took a forced hiatus from the gym for almost a week, (was working a 70 hr week due to special circumstances) and even missed a couple days of AE. I noticed on the days that I did not (dose) the AE my aggression and drive were down a little. Sex drive has slowly been improving, probably starting to become normal (i hope).

I like what I'm hearing bud, sounds like it is going great for you

 

[HereToStudy]

Sometimes I wish I could just relax behind a desk all day, but then I remember jobs I've had in the past. Sedentary just isn't my style. I would have crazy high cort levels at a boring desk job from driving myself nuts. (Not saying your jobs are boring Matt)

Cortisol is the devil when coming off cycle. I believe that is the probably the biggest player in my muscle loss/fat gain post cycle. Keeping it in check is just making a huge difference. And I like super 11's somewhat unique abilities vs just simply annihilating all cortisol in the body with an anti-cort.

I actually have considered long term use for similar reasons. Work a long stressful desk job and also take a prescription which has a high corelation to increased cortisol levels

 

[MattPorter]

Say NO! to stress and simple carbs simultaneously! -- carbs plus stress increase estrogen

-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

Say NO! to stress and simple carbs simultaneously! -- carbs plus stress increase estrogen

-Matt

I always forget about some of your older articles

 

[ryansm]

Say NO! to stress and simple carbs simultaneously! -- carbs plus stress increase estrogen

-Matt

Unfortunately during times of high stress is when most Americans crave simple carbs...

 

[HereToStudy]

Unfortunately during times of high stress is when most Americans crave simple carbs...

Ben and Jerrys solves many of life's problems...haha

 

[MattPorter]

Unfortunately during times of high stress is when most Americans crave simple carbs...

But according to CBL --- you can just eat your ben and jerrys post training, and actually have stress benefit you since it causes insulin resistance in all cells....but of course muscle will absorb the ben and jerrys through specialized glucose transporters created by resistance training.

I wanna punch Keifer in the face some times lol

-Matt

 

[ryansm]

But according to CBL --- you can just eat your ben and jerrys post training, and actually have stress benefit you since it causes insulin resistance in all cells....but of course muscle will absorb the ben and jerrys through specialized glucose transporters created by resistance training.

I wanna punch Keifer in the face some times lol

-Matt

lol, well in that case time to stock up on chubby hubby, might as well look the part


Here is what I do, if you are not trying to achieve <12% body fat eat whatever the hell you want and train like a madman 7 days a week, of course it will help to have >250lbs of lean mass oh and don't expect to have stellar cholesterol numbers either but that's what Toco-8 is for

 

[abformulations]

Talking about toco 8, i need to buy a tub ASAP

 

[mattikus]

I know I have definitely been craving more carbs since coming off anabolics. I have thought about adding all kinds of other natural things into this plan, (such as appetite suppressants, fat burners, additional test boosters, cort control yada yada) but really do want to give these products a solid analysis as to my own recovery. I can definitely say that AE is at the very least allowing for a smooth transition. As far as allowing for recovery while utilization, that remains to be seen. Anecdotally, sex drive is up and down, energy levels remain normal, and the boys seem to hang low one day, not so much the next. So all just speculation at this point.

 

[HereToStudy]

Talking about toco 8, i need to buy a tub ASAP

If you have not received a coupon, hit me with a PM.

 

[MattPorter]

I know I have definitely been craving more carbs since coming off anabolics. I have thought about adding all kinds of other natural things into this plan, (such as appetite suppressants, fat burners, additional test boosters, cort control yada yada) but really do want to give these products a solid analysis as to my own recovery. I can definitely say that AE is at the very least allowing for a smooth transition. As far as allowing for recovery while utilization, that remains to be seen. Anecdotally, sex drive is up and down, energy levels remain normal, and the boys seem to hang low one day, not so much the next. So all just speculation at this point.

Well ..this is fascinating...update us frequently please


-Matt

 

[mattikus]

I want to note that I have switched from an early morning application to an afternoon time with the transdermals, due to showering conflicts. And since doing that, I have definitely noticed a drop in energy pre-application. After applying I am good to go it seems. Workouts before the application seem to suffer slightly too in the energy dept. Just an observation.

 

[MattPorter]

I want to note that I have switched from an early morning application to an afternoon time with the transdermals, due to showering conflicts. And since doing that, I have definitely noticed a drop in energy pre-application. After applying I am good to go it seems. Workouts before the application seem to suffer slightly too in the energy dept. Just an observation.

So I take it --- you are NOT getting lethargic from the AndroEnhance? Because that is a possibility

-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

So I take it --- you are NOT getting lethargic from the AndroEnhance? Because that is a possibility

-Matt

Im assuming it is the low hormonal enviornment causing lethargy before he applies the enhance and notices its benefit.

 

[mattikus]

Im assuming it is the low hormonal enviornment causing lethargy before he applies the enhance and notices its benefit.

That would be my guess. The AE/ form combo lifts my mood as well, not that different from the way Sustain would make one feel.

 

[mattikus]

I have about 9 days left on the AE. I have only been doing 2-3 pumps a day of the formasurge so plenty of that left. Last few days have been feeling great. High energy, mood, and motivated. I upped my carbs a bit and changed my timing and have actually been looking a little more full, and others have noticed as well. I daresay I look about the same as when I was on, with an extra 2-3 % bf. The high spirits and energy I have had lately has me hoping that natty t production has resumed (fingers crossed). Sex drive is still so-so, but seems to be improving.

I am thinking I will drop the Clomid in a week, finish the AE, and stop the form a few days before getting some bloodwork, about a week post AE. Then see where I stand and go from there. If any of you have any other suggestions on bloodwork timing I am all ears.

 

[HereToStudy]

Things seem to be a success..Interested in seeing the bloodwork

 

[MattPorter]

This is awesome looking forward to blood work-Matt

 

[HereToStudy]

This is awesome looking forward to blood work-Matt

Yeah I consider the bloodwork to be the final piece is showing this was a success.

 

[mattikus]

1st off I just want to say what is going in with the raid sucks. Primordial Performance should not be in anyone's crosshairs.

Had a fantastic workout today. Chest and shoulders. I am going to start re-incorporating cardio into my routine tomorrow. I had stopped almost all cardio in hopes of preserving mass, which has certainly been accomplished.

Cooked 2 lbs chicken, 1 lb tuna, 2 cups Brown rice, 1 lb roasted potatoes, a bunch of asparagus, broccoli, carrots, and a bag of sliced almonds and mixed it all together with a can of cream of mushroom soup. My hungry man mix for the next few days.

Also want to add that if there is anything that I can do to support PP let me know.

 

[abformulations]

Raid?

 

[mattikus]

[No message]

 

[mattikus]

I just read all the updates from HTS and Matt. I am dismayed. Again I want to say that if there is anything I (we) can do to offer support let us know.

 

[mattikus]

Been off of the AE for a few days now, nothing notable to report. Energy levels are normal, sex drive still so-so, and muscle mass seems to have dropped slightly from the beginning of pct, which is no surprise really.

Am still going to get bloodwork, probably toward the end of next week, for anyone interested.