Advice: Long epistane cycle or injectibles

Brutus007

New member
Awards
0
hey all. I have 3200 mg of epi left which is enough to run a cycle of 7 days at 30 and 50 days at 60 mg. Ive had good results with epi, around fifteen pounds when i stacked it with tren and also massive strength gains when used with msten (weight gain was less than ten because i got the flu half way through cycle)

Ive been looking into injectables instead of orals because of numerous sources stating how preferred they were.

Recently, i lost a lot of weight and size because my job had me occupied where i couldn't meet my macros and lifting schedule. Now that I've balanced out my schedule and resumed my caloric surplus, i want to gain size rapidly. none of that "go train natty for a while bullish*t, we are in a anabolics forum lol.

My question is, i would be looking to put on maybe 10-20 pounds with that dosage and cycle length correct? my other option is:

Test E 500 mg a week for 8 weeks, with one additional week at the beginning with 1000 mg to front load. i would also kick start the first three weeks by using one bottle of my epi to dose at 4/30 17/60.

I have a reliable source and pct, and knowledge about cycle support, my question is, from all the research I've done, it appears that a cycle of test also averages around 10-20 lb of muscle gain. Because of the additional hazard of getting the injectables and not having don't it before, would the straight epistane be a better option? again looking for rapid and noticeable gains.

cheers
 
AlexPowell

AlexPowell

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
8 weeks of testosterone?
Prepare to be disappointed.
Muscle is not built in 8 weeks. You lost size though and you'll gain that back fast even naturally.
50 days is that like 6 weeks? Seems OK I guess, not going to hurt.

Honestly I think you should halve your doses, double your time on and disregard the front load. 2ml a week for 8 weeks is 16ml then 4ml to kick it off is 20ml total
That's 20 weeks at 250mg.
With perfect diet and training with 5-6 weeks of epistane to kick **** off that will give a good transformation.

If you double your doses and stay on for half as long then you'll gain a ****load of water, the scale will go up and you'll look marginally different
 
vujade

vujade

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
^^this... what Alex said.

You need to do a bare minimum of 12-16 weeks of Test. First time using it 250mg per week will be phenomenal..!
No need to go higher then that to see gains.
Use the Epi as an oral kick start and run it for 5-6 weeks tops.
 

Mdanno808

New member
Awards
0
12 weeks, test e 500mg per week (250/ injection) is kind of the standard first cycle. You'll see great gains. 250/week isn't enough.
 
AlexPowell

AlexPowell

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
12 weeks is kinda stupid as well
Testosterone comes in 10ml vials and you take 2ml a week

Kinda a waste really
I don't like keeping gear for long periods when it's already been drawn from also
 

Mdanno808

New member
Awards
0
Go for 16 weeks if you want, but don't take 250/ week. That's stupid. Run 500/week & do it right. 250 is not enough. If you're going to pin, get the best results you can


300mg vs 600mg of testosterone
The following is part of a thread by heavyiron over at MD, the full abstact can be found here..Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone's effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone Enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and IGF-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for IGF-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and IGF-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline

IGF-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. Testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.


If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate.
 

Mdanno808

New member
Awards
0
And yes for big gains go aas. No amount of epi will compare with test. Have an ai, and your pct lined up. I'd also recommend hcg. I'd have Ralox & possibly letro in case estro issues.
 
AlexPowell

AlexPowell

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
If you want the "best results" may as well just run 1g test 1g tren
Doesn't make it the best long term
 
jbryand101b

jbryand101b

Banned
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Go with both.
500mg test e 12 weeks
+
40mg Epi weeks 1-6

/ thread
 

dusty44

Banned
Awards
0
If you've got a reliable source for legit gear then there isn't really a question. I'd get more test and run 14 weeks at 400 per week. Like everyone else said, use the epi for six weeks either at the beginning or at the end of the cycle. I like using the orals at the end when the long esters have really kicked In so that your able to get the full synergistic effects from the two compounds.
 

Mdanno808

New member
Awards
0
Personally I'd save the epi. I don't think you need it. If you decide to run it, either side of the cycle would work.
 

Similar threads


Top