1ad, 4ad cycle

[davidtamas47]

Hi everyone!

Im about to give 1andro and 4andro(1-dhae,4dhae) a try. I saw on the "mindandmuscle" that they have great stacks of it, for example 3bottle of 1ad, 3 of 4ad, and 3 of arom-x cost only 150$, it's a bit suspicious also. Are they a trustable company, do you guys have any experience with them ?
On the "strongsupplements.com" i would have this quantity for 300. So it is really a big difference.

My goal is to run 6 weeks on the recommended dosage, what is 2 caps of each = 200mg of 1ad, 400mg of 4ad, and then 6 weeks arom-x. And after repeat this cycle again.

Do i need any AI, and cycle support?

Thanks for the help!

 

[pcarzola]

Hi everyone!

Im about to give 1andro and 4andro(1-dhae,4dhae) a try. I saw on the "mindandmuscle" that they have great stacks of it, for example 3bottle of 1ad, 3 of 4ad, and 3 of arom-x cost only 150$, it's a bit suspicious also. Are they a trustable company, do you guys have any experience with them ?
On the "strongsupplements.com" i would have this quantity for 300. So it is really a big difference.

My goal is to run 6 weeks on the recommended dosage, what is 2 caps of each = 200mg of 1ad, 400mg of 4ad, and then 6 weeks arom-x. And after repeat this cycle again.

Do i need any AI, and cycle support?

Thanks for the help!

I saw absolutely no gains from the exact ams cycle. I ran the 1 andro at 3 x recommended dosage and the 4 ad at 2 x. No suppression either. I ran the cycle for 6 weeks. Im having better results from a natty folli, viron and inhibit e along with most wanted.

 

[davidtamas47]

****, sorry to hear that bro! Now u made me wonder, if i should go for something else instead.

Is there anyone else who had similar experience with the ams products ?

 

[pcarzola]

****, sorry to hear that bro! Now u made me wonder, if i should go for something else instead.

Is there anyone else who had similar experience with the ams products ?

In theory, 1 andro should do something and it will work at the right dose. But honestly, you would have to run it at such a high dose that it becomes cost prohibitive. If you have the dough go for it. If you are going to run the 1 andro, go with ironmag labs or finaflex. Ironmag has the 1 andro and 4 ad. Higher dosages per pill. The ams stuff is ridiculously underdosed. And the stuff about effervescent delivery blah blah blah.

 

[l1fterp1nk]

I saw absolutely no gains from the exact ams cycle. I ran the 1 andro at 3 x recommended dosage and the 4 ad at 2 x. No suppression either. I ran the cycle for 6 weeks. Im having better results from a natty folli, viron and inhibit e along with most wanted.

Is "most wanted" any good? I have heard a bit about it. Their claims seem to be far fetched.

 

[pcarzola]

Is "most wanted" any good? I have heard a bit about it. Their claims seem to be far fetched.

Im running a sponsored log right now for ifn. Check it out in the logs section. Its only my 3rd day on it so far. All i can say at this point is they believe in the product 100%. I say this because i was very clear that i was going to be 100 percent honest with everyone before i ran the log. And they were 100 percent cool with that. What im looking for primarily is how it effects my recovery which is one of its most profound reported effects.

 

[LeanEngineer]

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/test-base-supplement-information

Check out this page man.

 

[Volvo140G]

Alpha Mass by FRL is a superior 1Andro product. I've ran the OG version at 12/day it was great. Never ran their new version however ....

 

[davidtamas47]

Pcarzola about one thing u are wrong my friend. The ironmaglabs 1-andro contains only 50mg/capsule while the ams version has 100mg/cap.
Well these are the official supplement facts, at the end it's possible that the ams has no any in it and they are selling f*cking placebo.

 

[pcarzola]

Pcarzola about one thing u are wrong my friend. The ironmaglabs 1-andro contains only 50mg/capsule while the ams version has 100mg/cap.
Well these are the official supplement facts, at the end it's possible that the ams has no any in it and they are selling f*cking placebo.

Well, no im not wrong bro. What you are looking at is 100 mg blend including cyclodextrin. There is not 100 mg of 1 andro in those tabs. I think there may be 20 per tab

 

[davidtamas47]

ohh, now as i checked it again, i have to admit that u are right
yeah probably these mothaf*ckers haven't put much in it, if u felt nothing at all during that 6 weeks

 

[pcarzola]

Alpha Mass by FRL is a superior 1Andro product. I've ran the OG version at 12/day it was great. Never ran their new version however ....

Try this^^^^^^. Volvo is on point for advice on 1 andro.

 

[davidtamas47]

This looks cool, but again we cannot see the exact dosage of the "andro".

I guess im just gonna leave this dhae stuff, stay with the ostarine, creatine combo and during off-cycle try some of these new natty anabolics. The anafuse by vital labs looks great with epicatechin, laxogenin and hica in it. Have u guys tried it ?

 

[Olestra]

Well, no im not wrong bro. What you are looking at is 100 mg blend including cyclodextrin. There is not 100 mg of 1 andro in those tabs. I think there may be 20 per tab

This is what they say about their product:

Why is RDe Superior to Common Oral Capsules
RD delivered 69% bioavailability of the active compounds while oral capsule bioavailability is a mere 1.5%. This means that a 100 mg capsule of 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one would only deliver 1.5 biologically active milligrams. Conversely, a 20 mg RD tablet delivers 14 biologically active milligrams. The differential is colossal.

If that weren’t enough, the new effervescent (e) matrix that completes the RDe ™ delivery formula ensures an additional 30% bioavailability of the active hormone for a near perfect 99% use of the active compound – the most efficient oral prohormone ever introduced to the market

Anyone know if these claims are possible? Sounds fishy to me...

 

[Volvo140G]

I've found, in the past, og alpha mass on eBay for $20/bottle. Grab four. It IS a nice muscle builder, just needs to be ran high. OG Alpha mass has some fancy special ester attached, its called "super 1-dhea" fwiw, as well as a nice hormone shield which it claims aides in absorption. Anyways, it was kick ass - just double dose it.

Their new alpha mass is around 320mg of regular 1-dhea per dose, mirrored some study that was done on 1-andro which I don't wanna look up right now, but is.worth a read.

So..... check out FRL

 

[Olestra]

Alpha Mass by FRL is a superior 1Andro product. I've ran the OG version at 12/day it was great. Never ran their new version however ....

What about a good dosage for 4-andro products when used as a base. Is the recommended dose good or should it be higher?

 

[hewhoisripped]

This is what they say about their product:



Anyone know if these claims are possible? Sounds fishy to me...

I don't know anything about their product in particular, but we (Antaeus) also make cyclodextrine complexed products (CoQ10, the now retired Ultra Stano, etc.) and while I'm sure their numbers are just estimates, I will say that it is possible for the cyclodextrine complex to increase oral bioavailability.

 

[yates84]

What about a good dosage for 4-andro products when used as a base. Is the recommended dose good or should it be higher?

Go reccomended dose or have an ai on hand, 4 andro aromatizes

 

[jbryand101b]

Well, no im not wrong bro. What you are looking at is 100 mg blend including cyclodextrin. There is not 100 mg of 1 andro in those tabs. I think there may be 20 per tab

This is correct

 

[Volvo140G]

What about a good dosage for 4-andro products when used as a base. Is the recommended dose good or should it be higher?

Never tried em, but I'd assume higher...

Maybe you can gauge what u think is "enough" by how you feel and go from there.

 

[Olestra]

Never tried em, but I'd assume higher...

Maybe you can gauge what u think is "enough" by how you feel and go from there.

Good idea, thanks.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of physical results did you see from your FRL 1-andro run?

 

[Volvo140G]

Gained nine lbs, leaned out a good deal, very apparant.strength gains as well.

Very minor lethargy (ran 1-ad solo), some hair thinning, back pumps once or twice.

I ran AM like this:

6/9/9/12/12/12

Stopped cause of accelerated hair shedding at 6 weeks. Ramped dose up cause I've heard it takes a few weeks to start making gains but if I'd run it again I'd go 9/12/12/12/??? Maybe even ramp up to 15 or 18. I felt great on cycle and was making gains.

 

[Olestra]

Gained nine lbs, leaned out a good deal, very apparant.strength gains as well.

Very minor lethargy (ran 1-ad solo), some hair thinning, back pumps once or twice.

I ran AM like this:

6/9/9/12/12/12

Stopped cause of accelerated hair shedding at 6 weeks. Ramped dose up cause I've heard it takes a few weeks to start making gains but if I'd run it again I'd go 9/12/12/12/??? Maybe even ramp up to 15 or 18. I felt great on cycle and was making gains.

Cool, thanks for the info. I just bought 4 bottles. Plan on taking it sometime this year as my first PH run since I've heard it's a good first cycle. Thinking of picking up some 4-ad to run with it as a test base.

 

[Volvo140G]

Good chit breaux

Did u find the og alpha mass?

It'll be a good run, please keep us posted better yet do a log here on AM! Also, feel free to PM me with any questions
Run that for 8 (or 12!) weeks with proper supports and a pct (get a serm). Cheer dude!

 

[Olestra]

Already got some clomid! Done all my research! I've always had trouble getting my weight past 185 lbs so I'm hoping it will help with that. It seems like I just stop at 185 and any weight I gain beyond that is fat.

Strength just isn't quite where I want it to be before I start yet. I'm thinking of going on once I get my college degree in may, if I reach my strength goals by then.

Edit: yea I think it was the OG version. The one with the molecule chain attached to the 1-DHEA.

 

[Volvo140G]

Sweet man, enjoy

12 was money. I planned on climbing too as I felt great w/ no sides but shed hair way too hard, kinda freaked me out

 

[Olestra]

Were you prone to hairloss to begin with? Did it come back after your cycle?

 

[Royd The Noyd]

This is what they say about their product:



Anyone know if these claims are possible? Sounds fishy to me...

http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.com/2012/07/how-do-sublingual-pro-hormones-work.html?m=1

http://www.advancedmusclesciencelab.com/2012/01/effervescent-elitism-advanced-muscle.html

 

[Royd The Noyd]

http://www.advancedmusclescience.com/research-and-articles/orally-disintegrating-prohormone-delivery/

 

[Olestra]

http://www.advancedmusclescience.com/research-and-articles/orally-disintegrating-prohormone-delivery/

Interesting excerpt I got from that:

"A 25 mg orally disintegrating dose outperformed a 100 mg oral dose by a 261% greater testosterone increase! Again that is at 25 mgs, one quarter the dosage! It should be noted however, that orally disintegrating absorption does have its limits. This same study was also done with a 50 mg orally disintegrating dose and was shown to me no more effective than a 25 mg dose. This may be due to a somewhat limited capacity for absorption through the orally disintegrating tissues. There is a limited surface area under the tongue, which probably means there is a finite amount of material that can be absorbed orally disintegratingly."

So it seems like it's good to a point and then the effectiveness tapers off.


Thanks for sharing.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Interesting excerpt I got from that:

"A 25 mg orally disintegrating dose outperformed a 100 mg oral dose by a 261% greater testosterone increase! Again that is at 25 mgs, one quarter the dosage! It should be noted however, that orally disintegrating absorption does have its limits. This same study was also done with a 50 mg orally disintegrating dose and was shown to me no more effective than a 25 mg dose. This may be due to a somewhat limited capacity for absorption through the orally disintegrating tissues. There is a limited surface area under the tongue, which probably means there is a finite amount of material that can be absorbed orally disintegratingly."

So it seems like it's good to a point and then the effectiveness tapers off.


Thanks for sharing.

The delivery method is inhibited by the surface area. It doesn't change the effectiveness. That's why we tell people to dose them frequently as well.

 

[pcarzola]

The delivery method is inhibited by the surface area. It doesn't change the effectiveness. That's why we tell people to dose them frequently as

Hat do you think of ams products? I dose the 1 andro at 6 tabs per day for 5 weeks and saw 0 gains. I dont even think i was suppressed. Dissapointing

 

[Royd The Noyd]

The delivery method is inhibited by the surface area. It doesn't change the effectiveness. That's why we tell people to dose them frequently as

Hat do you think of ams products? I dose the 1 andro at 6 tabs per day for 5 weeks and saw 0 gains. I dont even think i was suppressed. Dissapointing

When you take no supplements at all do you get zero gains in the gym after a month?

 

[pcarzola]

Of course gains come. Im talking about dem der extra gains from taking a prohormone. Guess your trying to be funny. I was just asking for your opinion on the products. Disregard.

 

[Olestra]

Don't really get what that guy's point was. And he's a FRL rep too? I'm confused.

 

[Volvo140G]

I don't get it either

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I work for both companies. Which point of mine do t you get? I'll try to explain.

 

[Olestra]

The delivery method is inhibited by the surface area. It doesn't change the effectiveness. That's why we tell people to dose them frequently as well.

I don't get a few things about this post.

1) what is meant by "delivery method is inhibited by the surface area" and why said inhibition doesn't change the effectiveness.
2) why dosing frequently would remedy this problem.
3) who is the "we" he refers to? His sig says he's a FRL rep but he's talking about an AMS product. (edit: ok I guess he works for both companies.)

I also really don't get what his response to pcarzola was about. Was he calling him a liar?

 

[pcarzola]

I don't get a few things about this post.

1) what is meant by "delivery method is inhibited by the surface area" and why said inhibition doesn't change the effectiveness.
2) why dosing frequently would remedy this problem.
3) who is the "we" he refers to? His sig says he's a FRL rep but he's talking about an AMS product. (edit: ok I guess he works for both companies.)

I also really don't get what his response to pcarzola was about. Was he calling him a liar?

I have absolutely no idea what he said or why he said it. Lol.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

I don't get a few things about this post.

1) what is meant by "delivery method is inhibited by the surface area" and why said inhibition doesn't change the effectiveness.
2) why dosing frequently would remedy this problem.
3) who is the "we" he refers to? His sig says he's a FRL rep but he's talking about an AMS product.

I also really don't get what his response to pcarzola was about. Was he calling him a liar?

1. Your mouth is only so big. The tabs are meant to dissolve in your mouth (not swallowed).

2. Dissolving tablets drastically increase blood plasma levels of whatever hormone they are delivering. But the half life is short so more frequent administration is best.

3. I don't know what my sig says I'm on mobile and can't see that. But I work for both companies. Have forever.

I wasn't calling him a liar.

 

[pcarzola]

1. Your mouth is only so big. The tabs are meant to dissolve in your mouth (not swallowed).

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113738"/>

2. Dissolving tablets drastically increase blood plasma levels of whatever hormone they are delivering. But the half life is short so more frequent administration is best.

3. I don't know what my sig says I'm on mobile and can't see that. But I work for both companies. Have forever.

I wasn't calling him a liar.

point taken but.... as a rep then, Whats the dosage you recommend the ams 1 andro at for true anabolic effect? Surely, not the bottle recommendation of 2 tabs a day right?

 

[pcarzola]

And i still have no clue what you meant by your first comment.lol

 

[Royd The Noyd]

point taken but.... as a rep then, Whats the dosage you recommend the ams 1 andro at for true anabolic effect? Surely, not the bottle recommendation of 2 tabs a day right?

The dose that one might consider anabolic can vary greatly from user to user depending upon their experience and expectations. Guys brand new to prohormones have generally been happy with two per day.

 

[pcarzola]

The dose that one might consider anabolic can vary greatly from user to user depending upon their experience and expectations. Guys brand new to prohormones have generally been happy with two per day.

Wow. I never took aas or a prohormone before and got zip at 6 tabs a day paired with 4 4-ad tabs. 6 weeks.

 

[Royd The Noyd]

Wow. I never took aas or a prohormone before and got zip at 6 tabs a day paired with 4 4-ad tabs. 6 weeks.

Yeah that's too bad. You could always try a designer steroid, or a stronger AAS. Some people are poor responders to anabolics.

 

[Olestra]

1. Your mouth is only so big. The tabs are meant to dissolve in your mouth (not swallowed).

View attachment 113738

2. Dissolving tablets drastically increase blood plasma levels of whatever hormone they are delivering. But the half life is short so more frequent administration is best.

3. I don't know what my sig says I'm on mobile and can't see that. But I work for both companies. Have forever.

I wasn't calling him a liar.

1) Ok I understand what you meant now.
2) One of the studies you linked mentioned how the cell membranes possibly lose their permeability to the sublingual delivery system after one dose. How long until they are permeable again and does that impact the frequency of dosing?
3) Gotcha.

Not really my area of concern, but just as a point, I still don't understand you comment to pcarzola.

 

[pcarzola]

Yeah that's too bad. You could always try a designer steroid, or a stronger AAS. Some people are poor responders to anabolics.

I sure hope thats not the case but thanks for the reply bro.

 

[jbryand101b]

1. Your mouth is only so big. The tabs are meant to dissolve in your mouth (not swallowed).

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=113738"/>

2. Dissolving tablets drastically increase blood plasma levels of whatever hormone they are delivering. But the half life is short so more frequent administration is best.

3. I don't know what my sig says I'm on mobile and can't see that. But I work for both companies. Have forever.

I wasn't calling him a liar.

Your probably wasting your time bro.

Bottom line, I don't rep or have any affiliation with either company.

Frl and ams pro hormones work.

Are they the same level as injectable or methylated compounds? no.

Do propper research to know what to expect, train hard, eat right, and no one is disappointed.

 

[Olestra]

Anyone here see a problem with running a very low dose (20 ED mg or less) transdermal trest as a test base for 1-DHEA?

 

[Volvo140G]

Hell no man, would be a great compliment!