Epistane and HAVOC results thread:

[bioman]

I had not noticed this, thank you for the information.

This really is a unique compound then for those who have a sensitivity towards gyno development.

And even more significant, at least for me, is that it keeps mood and libido elevated. It's likely that since it is milder than other orals in terms of lipids/choleostasis that it won't crash serotonin levels like M1T and SD do.

Thus far, it's been quite pleasant.

 

[papapumpsd]

Mace how does this sound? I want to pulse superdrol 4x/week for weeks 1-6 then finishing off with epi weeks 6-9 (week 6 w/SD) or wait till week 7 w/o SD and use epi weeks 7-10? Or does this seem like a bit much...or over kill?

What exactly is the goal(s) behind "pulsing"? I've read briefly that you can omit PCT and that it makes the cycle(s) less toxic to ye ole liver. Is this accurate? Am I missing any reasons to "pulse"? I'm pretty interested in it actually. If I can circumvent PCT and therefore get to partying faster and making a complete fool of myself, then lemme at it.

hmmm....can Superdrol EVER be made less toxic, even with pulsing?!!!

 

[colindep]

I hear that!

 

[motiv8er]

Let's hear some moeeeeee!!!

 

[bioman]

I decided to run the Epi for one additional week at 40 mgs, making this the end of week 3 for Epi and week 6 for the cycle's total.

Noticing some nice body recomp..waistline is the same 32" but abs are showing through a bit more.

Mood and libido still elevated. Fatigue is tolerable though present. Back pumps are kept in check by 5-10 grams of taurine per day..and man, do I notice if i forget to take it.

Still holding at 193 but have definitely gained size as several people have commented on this lately. Pumps in the gym are still pretty sick...I caught my reflection in the mirror at the gym and got scared because I thought some big bald mofo was staring me down. Fortunately, it was just me or I would have had to kick my ass. Got all that? Good. :think:

Will end this weekend for sure and start PCT.

 

[hardknock]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
20mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 30mg PP, 20 mg PP AND 20mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 30mg Havoc, 40mg Havoc(8 weeks)
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
BULK
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
dirty bulk, just the things going on in my life (traveling and such) i would have liked to eat cleaner. But Protein was VERY high (250-300/day)
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
Went from 167 to 193 in about 2.5 months (Christmas to Arnold Weekend).
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.
Looking to do a 12 week pulsing cycle with Havoc/Epi, MassFX, HyperDrol X-2 and Retain

Wondering how you managed this...Im thinking that if Havoc is suppressive, and you had just came out of a PP cycle then how did you manage not being shut down even further during pct

 

[macedaddy]

Wondering how you managed this...Im thinking that if Havoc is suppressive, and you had just came out of a PP cycle then how did you manage not being shut down even further during post cycle therapy

Havoc WAS NOT my PCT.........

the enitre cycle was PP then into Havoc then PCT!

 

[poopypants]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.
2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.
3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.
4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.
5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.

1) Epistane from IBE, 20/30/40/40

2)def bulking, although clean

3)Very high protien, VERY CLEAN, 40/40/20 macro split and managed to eat it all thanks to increased appitite

4) gained and still have retained 1 week into post cycle therapy 13.5lbs LBM, like I said CLEEEEEAAAANNN BULK

Also put on

@ least 35lbs to all chest and back lifts
@ least 25lbs to machined legs
@ least 60lbs to squat (non existent before)
And most improved was 105lbs added onto machined fly

5) wonderfully great supp with least amount of sides ive ever exp….. NOT TO MENTION A 75% REDUCTION IN MY GYNO!!!!!


gyno progression

muscle progression

 

[motiv8er]

Great photos, thanks Poop!!

 

[poopypants]

Great photos, thanks Poop!!

'course :thumbsup: thanks for the comp (i forgot to mention in that back shot the "old" shot is a pump shot and the "new" shot is cold.... shows even more diff when you know that )

 

[glockma]

ok, ive been doing hours upon hours of research. Lots of convincing opinions out there. how do I know whats true? i love reading this stuff but what i really want to know is this: is havoc/epistane a steroid,pro-steroid, pro-hormone or niether? how do i REALLY know the truth without taking it to a chemist myself?

 

[ralph4u2c]

ok, ive been doing hours upon hours of research. Lots of convincing opinions out there. how do I know whats true? i love reading this stuff but what i really want to know is this: is havoc/epistane a steroid,pro-steroid, pro-hormone or niether? how do i REALLY know the truth without taking it to a chemist myself?

i dont think it converts to anything else once injested so that would technically classify it as an AAS, maybe IBE or RPN can say for sure.

 

[glockma]

I'm very curious. Thanks for the input

 

[mmowry]

Well its a 17b etradiol antagonist (anti estrogen) with strong anabolic properties but the answer with your given options: its steroidal.

 

[glockma]

Thank you for answering. reps

 

[mmowry]

No problem.

 

[CryingEmo]

I seriously think this thread puts all the naysayers comments to rest. How can you argue with results?

 

[motiv8er]

I seriously think this thread puts all the naysayers comments to rest. How can you argue with results?

Crying Emo,

As the starter of this thread, to hear you validate it as such, you make me complete!

 

[FitModel]

Yes there is supression with EPI but there is a protocol set up on our forum that uses low dose pulseing during post cycle therapy to keep a slight anabolic environment and utilize the Anti E effect of Epi but it cant be run at higher doses as it would be counter productive.

can u elaborate?

 

[mmowry]

wk1 Epi 30mg nolva 10mg/day
wk2 Epi 20mg nolva 20mg/day
wk3 Epi 10mg nolva 30mg/day
wk4 nolva 40mg
wk5 nolva 30mg
wk6 nolva 20mg

This will slowly allow for hormonal balance as the body doesnt have a chance to have a huge inrush of test since there is neg feedback given in a reducing pulse fashion.The article that goes much more in depth is at ibeforums.com

 

[FitModel]

okay cool thanks...

 

[motiv8er]

okay cool thanks...

bump...

 

[JZ7757]

interesting stuff....subscribed.

 

[motiv8er]

I had great results in cutting with epi/ havoc at 40 and 50 mgs. It did a great job of preserving mass on a lower cal diet and increasing strength and well being to boot. I went through two bottles and really had a great experince. It was very side effect free for me, minus some prostate tenderness. But that is normal for me with oral andro anything.

Unexperienced should realize great results 20-30 mgs, and bigger guys at 40-50mgs IMO. I think due to the lack of sides, this is a great first one to run for the serious user who understand the risks, sides, and benefits.

 

[FitModel]

what do you guys think would be the best layout for emphais on gyno reduction and lean gains...4 OR 5 weeks...and what dosage? (I have used some AAS and phs in the past) I was thinking 4 weeks of 30mgs, or maybe first week 20, then next three 30, then last 40 (5 week total, or are results peaking at 4th week?)


thanks

 

[poopypants]

honestly that will show SOME gyno reduction... you want to see significant results though you need to dose every 6-8 hours thats 50-60mg ED for at least 4 weeks.... it will take more then one bottle.

other wise i did similar to your plans and still saw saome good reduction but dosed as close to every 8 hours as possible and dosed 40mg most my cycle.

 

[FitModel]

honestly that will show SOME gyno reduction... you want to see significant results though you need to dose every 6-8 hours thats 50-60mg ED for at least 4 weeks.... it will take more then one bottle.

other wise i did similar to your plans and still saw saome good reduction but dosed as close to every 8 hours as possible and dosed 40mg most my cycle.

interesting...LakeMountD (who is an IBE Super Employee) told me this...

"B) If you are just looking to get rid of the gyno I would start off on 20mg. More isn't necessarily better since it is still an androgen, you don't want to go too high if you are trying to reduce gyno. I actually had wonderful gains on 20mg split up in morning and evening doses. "

 

[RoadBlocK]

interesting...LakeMountD (who is an IBE Super Employee) told me this...

"B) If you are just looking to get rid of the gyno I would start off on 20mg. More isn't necessarily better since it is still an androgen, you don't want to go too high if you are trying to reduce gyno. I actually had wonderful gains on 20mg split up in morning and evening doses. "

Well, I dont work for any companys involved, and I will tell you that Lake has given you great advice, and so has poopy. Everyone responds differently, at 40mg a day I noticed visible reduction in gyno symptoms, but I also noticed some shutdown/supression, so you will have to find your own sweetspot dosage, try 2 a day spread out like lake said, and see if that works for you. I was not taking it for gyno reduction, that was just an added plus. Good luck to you.

 

[zipzz92]

OMFG :bb2:

 

[FitModel]

Well, I dont work for any companys involved, and I will tell you that Lake has given you great advice, and so has poopy. Everyone responds differently, at 40mg a day I noticed visible reduction in gyno symptoms, but I also noticed some shutdown/supression, so you will have to find your own sweetspot dosage, try 2 a day spread out like lake said, and see if that works for you. I was not taking it for gyno reduction, that was just an added plus. Good luck to you.

okay cool, anyone else...

 

[poopypants]

interesting...LakeMountD (who is an IBE Super Employee) told me this...

"B) If you are just looking to get rid of the gyno I would start off on 20mg. More isn't necessarily better since it is still an androgen, you don't want to go too high if you are trying to reduce gyno. I actually had wonderful gains on 20mg split up in morning and evening doses. "

ok well im also an IBE rep and ran Epi myself as well, YES starting at 20mg and working into it is VERY smart (wich i did) BUT Dr D the chemist behind it TOLD ME every 6-8 hours is best for gyno reduction. look it up type gyno and Epi on a search and its in the topicc name "epistane for gyno reduction" or "epistane dosing" something like that... plenty of info on it from the man who brought it to us..... not taking from what LMD told you just adding to it with more info and personal expereince.

 

[rpen22]

ok well im also an IBE rep and ran Epi myself as well, YES starting at 20mg and working into it is VERY smart (wich i did) BUT Dr D the chemist behind it TOLD ME every 6-8 hours is best for gyno reduction. look it up type gyno and Epi on a search and its in the topicc name "epistane for gyno reduction" or "epistane dosing" something like that... plenty of info on it from the man who brought it to us..... not taking from what LMD told you just adding to it with more info and personal expereince.

Here's a Dr.D post regarding the best dosing protocol for gyno reduction.

The more you can spread it out, the better. Every 6-8hrs is perfect in most cases, but 12 at the most, so yes, take up to 4 doses a day. Morning, afternoon, pre & post-w/o, bed.

 

[poopypants]

thats IT thanks rpen your def a pro quoter.... reps...

edit : damn ive whored myself to you too recently.... ill get you when i can.

 

[FitModel]

now that the dosage is settled, what is the ideal length of a cycle...4 weeks, 5 weeks? personally I'm leaning towards 4 or 5 max, because I don't want complete shutdown

 

[mmowry]

FitModel I ran for 7wks.I gained the bulk of my mass in 4 and started to repartition nicely 5-7.

 

[poopypants]

its up to you, its not all that suppressive BUT running it at higher doses for an extended period WILL shut you down, just DO IT and then get some toremifene, that stuff will have you back in production in NO TIME its REALLY quite good.... well not tasting

but i ran it 4 weeks and was REALLY making gains my 4th weeks and wished i could have stayed on longer, so maybe 5 or more would be really nice.

 

[dirtydean12]

wow, reading through this thread might have sold me on epistane...exactly what i'm looking for:woohoo:

 

[scotty2]

It was very side effect free for me, minus some prostate tenderness.

Anyone else have this issue? I seem to have a little myself......****ting my pants

 

[poopypants]

the problem is ****ting your pants or prostate tenderness? i didnt have this effect me in that way whatsoever.

 

[scotty2]

the problem is ****ting your pants or prostate tenderness? i didnt have this effect me in that way whatsoever.

lol, the pants ****ting is figurative, while the prostate thing is literal, I'm ****ting my pants because I am unsure of what the tenderness is

 

[poopypants]

ya i figured as much...i only **** myself for sport so sorry cant help ya with your prstate prob... are there any prostate support sups out there and motiv8er did you continue to have tenderness after discontinuing or did it subside>???

 

[Movin_weight]

somewhat late but here goes!

Ran havoc
20/20/40/40/60 + zol 150/150/200/200/250
Diet: clean bulk roughly 3500 cals
Gained 12 lean pounds BF remained within 1%
Strength: 40lbs on bench, 50lbs on deads, 40lbs on squats
Noticed gyno reduction first couple weeks but then at higher doses it returned to normal (its non-visible and very minor)
Libido started very high and leveled off towards end of cycle
most of the weight and strength came in first 4 weeks, the last week i noticed mostly hardening and increased def.
side effects: some back pumps at higher doses, minor headaches

overall impression:
great cycle, lean gains, low sides... was also taking anabolic pump on cycle and would compare pumps at 40mg and 60mg to that of 20-30mg of SD

 

[Flip]

1) Which one you ran and at what dose and other hormones if any.

RPN's Havoc 20/30/50/50 /\ AST 4AD 1200mg.

2) What your usage of it was. IE Bulking or cutting.

Bulking

3) What diet your diet was like and how it went.

Potein @ 220 / 190 depending on workout day or off day. Kept clean calorie intake as high as I could stomach.

4) What gains in size or strength of weight loss you experienced.

Toatal gain of 7lbs loss 3 during PCT. Nolva, Milk Thistle, Cranberry.

5) Any other overall notes you would like to share.

Overall I think body comp and strength changes were awsome. Although I would have liked to have added more body weight I new this would not be the case going in. Stength increase have all been keep after PCT which is nice. One note. when dosing at 50mg a day, be prepared for some joint pain. For me it was mainly shoulders and knuckles. Overall I would say I liked HAVOC and will run it again but I feel ceartin this time I will keep the dosing under 40 mgs and may even extend cycle to 6 wks.:thumbsup:

 

[motiv8er]

Thanks for the replies guys...

Heres my take on my prostate stuff dude.

I recommend a number of things. 1) look at what new stims you are trying. clen chewed up my prosate. 2) get on something like cycle support from ai and stay on it. 3) I am not sure how much it helps, but the medical journals support cranberry juice. i like the juice, perhaps a cran supp is a better idea if you are sugar sensitive. I would stay away from anything that you are worried about for a few months and see if the sides subside.

Hope it helps!:donut: Or you may need one of these to sit on!!

 

[scotty2]

tough to tell, no probs with anything other than being a little tender, no probs urinating or anything of that nature

 

[Magickk]

Sold... Glad I found this thread, I'm going to shoot for a 6-8 weeker, running Cycle Support throughout, w/ a Toremifene / X-Lean PCT...

 

[UNCfan1]

I am glad I got some Epi. Thanks Mike:thumbsup: After reading some of these I can't wait to try it out. Its seems like the perfect PH, well as perfect as u can get lol.

BTW Mike if u see this u have a pm.

 

[gotripped]

ran both havoc and epi. gains were just the same and extreme pump was just the same as well as sense of well being off the charts. I was on a bulk and eating around 4500 calories a day atleast 300g protein ed & lots of carbs. gained 10 lbs.

 

[steve777]

have any users experienced any hair loss using Epistane?

 

[charger71]

have any users experienced any hair loss using Epistane?

yes i noticed some shedding, either run a pulse cycle or dont go longer than 4 weeks for a normal cycle. pretty much the longer you run it the more hair youll lose.