Least Harsh Legal Steroid

T-Bone

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I have not run a cycle since I got out of the hospital in October of 05. I have been fully recovered for a while now. I was told by the doctors to never take any kind of supplement anymore for the rest of my life. I don't really trust the doctors advice though. Maybe its not such a good idea, but I am still wondering what is the mildest legal steroid out today?. I wish transdermals would make a come back, or even non 17aa-alkylated!!...
 
yeahright

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Ummmmm, were your hospitalized because of something related to supplement use?
 
Chemist2234

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Please elaborate on the hospitalization situation....im intrested...
 
jmh80

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As far as your question - I'd say TST was the mildest for me.

Epistane/Havoc might be 2nd in that category - from what I can tell. I've not taken it though.
 
quigs

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Here is a link to a thread in which I describe some of what happened to me on a Superdrol Cycle. Its not extremely detailed, but the major points are represented, scroll down a couple posts to see mine,

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/44963-superdrol-sides-4.html?highlight=superdrol+sides
I just read that thread and I can't believe you're even considering another designer steroid after your experience. Seriously, its not worth it. The advancements in non-hormonal supplements have been huge as of late and they can give you very good results.

Some suggestions that I've had great success with:

USP Anabolic Pump
USP Powerfull
Syntrax Swole V3

Good luck.
 
ripped22

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damn bro! what did they diagnose you with? a similar thing happened to a older friend of mine after using SD. his good cholesterol was i think 3 and the doctors freaked.

if i was you i would just use test. learn to pin and forget all the oral crap. if you like short cycles then use prop or suspension. stay away from orals period, that was your wakeup call.
 

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T-Bone

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My understanding of what happened was you were drinking during your superdrol cycle. That's what would cause your liver problems.

No I don't drink at all. Haven't in years. It was the Superdrol that caused the problems...All the other supplements didn't help either....Fish Oil, Liv-52, Twin Lab Blood Pressure Control, Policosonol, and Red Yeast Rice/W CoQ10(Includes Milk Thistle),TwinSorb CoQ10...The doctors did determine that it was solely caused by the Steroid.
 
riskarb

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The only OTC supps vetted to aid in clearance and repair are natural ALA and Silybin. Co-Q10 and Liv-52 are bandaids for gunshot wounds.

1g/day of each is where you start to see efficacy.
 
T-Bone

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I just read that thread and I can't believe you're even considering another designer steroid after your experience. Seriously, its not worth it. The advancements in non-hormonal supplements have been huge as of late and they can give you very good results.

Some suggestions that I've had great success with:

USP Anabolic Pump
USP Powerfull
Syntrax Swole V3

Good luck.

Yes I can't really believe I am thinking about either. Especially after hearing things from the doctors like, "Wow, you are lucky to be alive!". And from the liver doctor, "You've hit the wall"....Maybe its reading all the posts on this site is making me think about doing another cycle, just a little one with low doses of a relatively mild steroid...I guess also I am just wondering what everyone elese would do in my situation...Also wondering if since my liver is back to normal would I be at worse risk than if this had not happened to me before?...

I guess its really not a good idea. When you are sitting in a hospital bed wasting away, body itching from head to toe constantly...All bright yellow, and the smell from you smells like a convelescent home...Literally I wasted away. I was about 215 pounds and 12 percent bodyfat when I went in, by the time I left I was about 170 and could hardly walk....They put me in the "crazy ward" because I was yelling, "I don't want to live like this anymore!"...Just imagine itching from head to toe constantly and the doctors just said "we can't give you anything for it, because it will just make your liver worse"....Also the nurses not telling me to scratch!!...What the hell?...."Don't scratch it could give you an infection!"...As soon as they left I started scatching and they had to change the sheets because of all the blood....I did think to myself in there "Is it all worth it?"..."I'm never taking another supplement again if I live"....



Now I have been out for almost two years and I do think back on it, and think different now...I mean they told me in the hospital that if it came to it and my liver didn't get better that they could cut off the bad portion of the liver and it will actually rejuvinate and grow again healthy....I was told that by the head doctor on the liver transplant team...It did get better though after a few months out of the hospital...Then another doctor told me that from now on I would be at a higher risk for something like this to actually happen again, and about the only thing I should ever take again is a multi-vitamin......You see so its not like these doctors are completely straight with me....I had plenty of blood tests after getting out of the hospital over the months and was told my liver was healthy now...So in that case than why was I told I am still at risk of this happening again???...Could it be that the doctors just believe in any type of supplementation besides a multi vitamin?....Or even though my liver is healthy now I am still at a higher risk for some reason???...



I could go to my doctor and ask them these questions but they are really close minded about supplementation....Like I said, I was told not to take anything besides a multi....I do take some basic supps now because I don't believe them to be harmful,

NHA STACK
Basic Cuts 6 a day
EHCL 125mg a day
Lipid FX 1 serving a day(4 caps)
Adam Mens Multi
Vigor
Liv-52 (only because I had 2 bottles left that are due to expire in March)
Coral Calcium Plus
4 Fish Oil a day (Super EPA)
Super Pro-biotic Complex

Now if the doctors new I took all that they would go ape****!...I just don't see anything wrong with it...I completely understand their concern with oral steroids and not using them yes, but they are biased on any type regular "food supplement" almost like they put them in the same catagory...


Well people it seems I am just rambling on and on now. I hope this thread continues to grow and would like to hear varios opinions...
 
T-Bone

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The only OTC supps vetted to aid in clearance and repair are natural ALA and Silybin. Co-Q10 and Liv-52 are bandaids for gunshot wounds.

1g/day of each is where you start to see efficacy.

William LLewellyn references it in "Anabolics 2004", so thats where I got the idea to add it. I was also taking Milke Thistle though. I was told by the liver doctor though that no over the counter supplement will ever protect your liver, if there was something that would it would be and FDA approved drug.

Hepatoprotective effect of Liv-52 and Kumaryasava on carbon tetrachloride induced hepatic damage in rats

Infotrieve Online


TOXILIT - Mathur, S. : Role of Liv-52 in protection against beryllium intoxication


Liv 52 : Protective effect of Liv.52 on alcohol-induced fetotoxicity


I really don't believe that this stuff helped me at all though. Maybe I didn't take enough, but I really doubt anything would have helped at all besides me never taking SD at all!....I really don't believe any of the so called "liver protection and detoxification" products work at all. Well maybe somewhat, but they truely don't protect you from the toxic effects of oral steroids, nothing does.
 
mmowry

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Well I cant tell you what to do but I do know that doctors have an incredible bias when it comes to supplementation.
These are the same doctors that will prescribe an FDA approved med that does 10X more harm than good but will tell people that they cant condone them going to a homeopathic doctor as there is no proof that these methods work.Well how about the 1000s of years that we didnt have liscenced MDs and people self medicated from natural sources and got well.

Sorry about the rant but I dont give a ton of merit to the majority of the medical field when it comes to this area.Good luck whatever your decision is.

BTW I must concur with the Epistane recomendation as Im on it right now and its the mildest( side effect wise ) anabolic Ive ever run.
 
WannaBeHulk

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thermolife's liver longer seems to be legit for protecting your liver. it is marketed to take during steroid cycles and there is published research backing up their claims. it isnt cheap but this is something you cant put a price tag on if it works. might be worth a shot to include if you decide to do another oral cycle.
 

angelo212

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No I don't drink at all. Haven't in years. It was the Superdrol that caused the problems...All the other supplements didn't help either....Fish Oil, Liv-52, Twin Lab Blood Pressure Control, Policosonol, and Red Yeast Rice/W CoQ10(Includes Milk Thistle),TwinSorb CoQ10...The doctors did determine that it was solely caused by the Steroid.
I'm sorry if that wasn't you. Someones girlfriend wrote in about her boyfriens in the hopital with liver failure because of superdrol. But she did admit he drank alchohol on a few occasions while on the superdrol. I thought this was you. I'm sorry.
 
natiels

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1,4 ad is still legal. If you search for it you can find it. It is non-methyl and works well transdermally. Converts to boldenone. It is one of the prohormones that managed to survive the 04 ban because it can be found naturally occurring in cow poo :). I used it recently and liked it because of low sides and easy recovery. If I were you I would never ever use anything methylated (steroid that is) again. It would never be worth it for a few lbs of muscle to risk what you went through.

I think X-Mass is also non-methylated. It is a clone of the old Max LMG product from alri. I think there may be some prostanazol clones floating around too and that is non-methyl. You can do the USPlabs thing if you want to go for all natural supps or check out Mass-FX by AX.

There are still some options available for those that wish to avoid methyls. Good luck with whatever you try next. I hope you do decide to stay clear of 17aa's tho. It is also nice to see you back. There is a newer guy with the name t-bone2 and everytime I would see a post by him I would wonder where you went.
 

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I just read that thread and I can't believe you're even considering another designer steroid after your experience. Seriously, its not worth it. The advancements in non-hormonal supplements have been huge as of late and they can give you very good results.

Some suggestions that I've had great success with:

USP Anabolic Pump
USP Powerfull
Syntrax Swole V3

Good luck.
listen to this man. if a 17aa that almost everyone tolerates pretty well nearly killed you, you should not even CONSIDER using another one.

i'm actually a little disgusted by your approach - you come on and trash superdrol, saying it is the sole culprit (when a logical person would naturally conclude that a weakened liver or other preexisting condition was a strong contributor...how else would your reaction have been so extreme?)...then go and ask advice for your next steroid cycle. wow.

when i first saw your posts a few months back, i was shocked and sorry, but pleased, only because it would maybe shed light on the toxic nature of 17aa's, and reinforce that they arent to be taken lightly. now this?

sorry for the flame - you probably arent a bad guy - i'm just surprised is all.
 

same_old

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1,4 ad is still legal. If you search for it you can find it. It is non-methyl and works well transdermally. Converts to boldenone. It is one of the prohormones that managed to survive the 04 ban because it can be found naturally occurring in cow poo :)
boldione (1,4ad) was simply overlooked in the 04 ban. it has nothing to do with it being found naturally occurring.

it is good stuff, though, and fine for oral administration if you dose high enough...but remember, it is still metabolized by the liver.
 
T-Bone

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1,4 ad is still legal. If you search for it you can find it. It is non-methyl and works well transdermally. Converts to boldenone. It is one of the prohormones that managed to survive the 04 ban because it can be found naturally occurring in cow poo :). I used it recently and liked it because of low sides and easy recovery. If I were you I would never ever use anything methylated (steroid that is) again. It would never be worth it for a few lbs of muscle to risk what you went through.

I think X-Mass is also non-methylated. It is a clone of the old Max LMG product from alri. I think there may be some prostanazol clones floating around too and that is non-methyl. You can do the USPlabs thing if you want to go for all natural supps or check out Mass-FX by AX.

There are still some options available for those that wish to avoid methyls. Good luck with whatever you try next. I hope you do decide to stay clear of 17aa's tho. It is also nice to see you back. There is a newer guy with the name t-bone2 and everytime I would see a post by him I would wonder where you went.

Thanks a lot. Yes I remember you also from a few years back. I always wanted to try 1,4 ad. The thing with that was that it never seemed worth the money for the return results people posted about. I thought though that it was the orally bioavailable though...I was just looking it up for a few hours. I could only find one product. It would cost around $850 to do a cycle at 1200 miligrams which seems to be the norm from the 2-3 hours I just spent searching around. Way to expensive for me....Maybe if I win the lottery!
 
dadream

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Think back on all the pain and suffering you went through man!! If you care at all about your own health in the least bit you should definitly stay away from methylated orals and the likes. But really if i were you i wouldn't take any steriods at all because it seems quite obvious that your liver has been compromised and you could not tolerate them in the first place. Do youself a favor and stay natural, and in your case the risks definitly outweigh the benefits regarding steriod usage. But if you do decide to use them i think its a no brainer that you'd definitly need get your blood work done weekly when on cycle. I donno take it for what its worth. Stay safe man.
 
T-Bone

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Think back on all the pain and suffering you went through man!! If you care at all about your own health in the least bit you should definitly stay away from methylated orals and the likes. But really if i were you i wouldn't take any steriods at all because it seems quite obvious that your liver has been compromised and you could not tolerate them in the first place. Do youself a favor and stay natural, and in your case the risks definitly outweigh the benefits regarding steriod usage. But if you do decide to use them i think its a no brainer that you'd definitly need get your blood work done weekly when on cycle. I donno take it for what its worth. Stay safe man.

Thanks, I just want to know what other people would do in my situation.
 
Alpine

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Yes I can't really believe I am thinking about either. Especially after hearing things from the doctors like, "Wow, you are lucky to be alive!". And from the liver doctor, "You've hit the wall"....Maybe its reading all the posts on this site is making me think about doing another cycle, just a little one with low doses of a relatively mild steroid...I guess also I am just wondering what everyone elese would do in my situation...Also wondering if since my liver is back to normal would I be at worse risk than if this had not happened to me before?...

I guess its really not a good idea. When you are sitting in a hospital bed wasting away, body itching from head to toe constantly...All bright yellow, and the smell from you smells like a convelescent home...Literally I wasted away. I was about 215 pounds and 12 percent bodyfat when I went in, by the time I left I was about 170 and could hardly walk....They put me in the "crazy ward" because I was yelling, "I don't want to live like this anymore!"...Just imagine itching from head to toe constantly and the doctors just said "we can't give you anything for it, because it will just make your liver worse"....Also the nurses not telling me to scratch!!...What the hell?...."Don't scratch it could give you an infection!"...As soon as they left I started scatching and they had to change the sheets because of all the blood....I did think to myself in there "Is it all worth it?"..."I'm never taking another supplement again if I live"....



Now I have been out for almost two years and I do think back on it, and think different now...I mean they told me in the hospital that if it came to it and my liver didn't get better that they could cut off the bad portion of the liver and it will actually rejuvinate and grow again healthy....
What in the hell?

A) What is your health background? Do you have HepC or conditions?

B) What was your Superdrol dosage and duration. How many oral cycles had you run that year. Time on/off etc. What other supplements were you taking.

C) Any antibiotics? Accutane?

D) How was your diet? Abnormally Fatty?

I know this can happen but it just seems like it would only occur if someone really abused SD for a long time. I'm very curious about your situation.
 
yeahright

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Thanks, I just want to know what other people would do in my situation.
I would avoid steroids, alcohol and tylenol for the rest of my life if I was in your situation.
 
xtraflossy

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No I don't drink at all. Haven't in years. It was the Superdrol that caused the problems...All the other supplements didn't help either....Fish Oil, Liv-52, Twin Lab Blood Pressure Control, Policosonol, and Red Yeast Rice/W CoQ10(Includes Milk Thistle),TwinSorb CoQ10...The doctors did determine that it was solely caused by the Steroid.
Right. You tell the doctor the ENTIRE list of things you are taking, all of them somewhat common, and then there's this ONE thing that the doc doesn't know about....
And, despite you having completed 2 methyl cycles BEFORE that, the doc fails to find anything wrong and blames it on the drol.:icon_lol:

You would have had problems on your other cycles if your liver "normally" reacted like that.
Honestly, It probably was not the SD then, it may have been a virus, or something else.
Also, I am curious as to the length of time you took BETWEEN these two previous cycles......

With all the weight you have lost, you should be able to recover some of it faily easily naturally, if you are under your usual weight.
You can add more by other natty supps if you like, as there are a number out there that will slap on weight if your foundation (doet and progressive trainaing) are on point.
 
T-Bone

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Right. You tell the doctor the ENTIRE list of things you are taking, all of them somewhat common, and then there's this ONE thing that the doc doesn't know about....
And, despite you having completed 2 methyl cycles BEFORE that, the doc fails to find anything wrong and blames it on the drol.:icon_lol:

You would have had problems on your other cycles if your liver "normally" reacted like that.
Honestly, It probably was not the superdrol then, it may have been a virus, or something else.
Also, I am curious as to the length of time you took BETWEEN these two previous cycles......

With all the weight you have lost, you should be able to recover some of it faily easily naturally, if you are under your usual weight.
You can add more by other natty supps if you like, as there are a number out there that will slap on weight if your foundation (doet and progressive trainaing) are on point.
My two cycles before that were about 1 year apart. At the least I will wait twice the time of the cycle including pct before attempting another cycle. I usually don't do more than 2 cycles per year. I don't really know about the doctor not knowing about SD. I did go to a hospital were they specialized in things of this nature. The Superdrol was the harshest thing I ever took though besides M1T, and that caused me to piss blood after 5 days. I really have a hard time remember the exact details because it was so long ago and I was so out of it.....Heres an example...When I first when into the local hospital they did give me all sorts of drugs, plus no sleep!...This is what my wife tells me because I have no recolection of this....I was sitting in the hospital bed with my wife visiting next to me...She said I was gesturing like I was holding a phone and I actually thought I was calling my apartment and talking to my wife. I was "talking to the operator" saying, "My wife won't pick up the phone and I think something is wrong"...This whole time my wife was talking back to me pretending to be the operator on the phone!!. She actually told me I did this, and I swear I remember nothing of the sort!!!!!...There were even times where she said she took me out to eat at a Rubey Tuesdays and I don't remember going there!. She said I went in the bathroom and it took me a while and was going to have the waiter go check on me. I guess I came out eventually though. I also don't remember this at all!....Certain things I can remember certain things I just have no idea!.
 

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Wow, I was just planning a superdrol cycle, your story is making me reconsider to say the least.

What was your dosage during the cycle and how long did you run it for?
 

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First of all, you must have some huge balls to even want to attempt another PH cycle after all that. If for some reason you ever do another, do yourself a favor and make sure it isnt methylated and you LOAD up on cycle support.
Xmass (Revolt/Max LMG), Prostanozol (Orastan-E/Megazol), Mega-TRN, and Methoxy TST are the only nonmethyls that come to mind.
 
T-Bone

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Wow, I was just planning a superdrol cycle, your story is making me reconsider to say the least.

What was your dosage during the cycle and how long did you run it for?

I started at 20mg and went up to 30 for a few days mid cycle but didn't see any difference so went back down to 20. I cut the cycle short at the end of the 5th week...
 
T-Bone

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I would avoid steroids, alcohol and tylenol for the rest of my life if I was in your situation.


You see the thing is I have a lot of M4OHN, some MDHT, and M5aa. 1 bottle of Emax LMG, 1 of Max Lmg....So this stuff is gonna go to waste if I never use it...But the doctors would scream at me if I show up at the hospital again with yellow eyes. Needless to say they would remember me. I kinda stuck out. My wife went to the doctor recently and she talked about me and the doc didn't know who I was until she said "the yellow man". Ummmm, "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?!?!?"....Even that I am considering this you could call me either stupid or crazy!....:fool2:


The left are right side of my brain....:duel:
 
Alpine

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There is something just not right about all of this. Normal people dont piss blood after 5 days of M1T. Superdrol doesnt cause problems like this either unless abused in high doses for a long time. Nothing you have mentioned sounds like blatant abuse. If there is an underlying condition or previous abuse (you left out) it could be different. This is why i asked questions such as medication and so forth. Something like accutane could explain some of it. Antibiotics? HepC?

Either way, this is abnormal and there is more to the story. Either you arent being 100% honest or you are leaving out facts. Perhaps you have an undiagnosed condition. If everything you said is dead on accurate this is VERY abnormal. The only thing I can think of is that you have been pounding potent methyls (m1t, m5aa, superdrol) for a long time and you dont want to admit to really overdoing it. It's annoying when you contribute to a post in an effort to help and then slowly realize that none of it quite adds up. It's a waste of everyones time.

Im not trying to be a ****. If everything is 100% dead on accurate then there is defiantly an issue specific to you. Your liver is not handling anything very well at all. Then again, you have been checked out and they dont find any specific condition or abnormality. Again, makes no sense. There are a few cases of superdrol induced cholestasis attribted to SD alone. I still find it hard to believe. There is most likely something going on. Previous abuse not admitted to physician, undiagnosed liver condition, alcohol abuse, genetic condition predisposing patient to abnormal liver function and drug induced cholestasis (most likely). And if not, it IS abnormal for someone's liver to have this much trouble with normal methylated hormone use.

------
Expert Opin Drug Saf. 2003 May;2(3):287-304.

Drug-induced cholestasis.

Velayudham LS, Farrell GC.

Storr Liver Unit, Westmead Millennium Institute, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia.

Drugs may cause several overlapping syndromes of cholestasis, the pathophysiological syndrome resulting from impaired bile flow. These reactions comprise approximately 17% of all hepatic adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and they may be severe. Causes of 'pure' (bland) cholestasis include oestrogens and anabolic steroids; rarer associations are with antimicrobials and NSAIDs. 'Cholestatic hepatitis' is a common drug reaction in which liver injury and inflammation cause significant elevation of serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) as well as cholestasis. Chlorpromazine and ketoconazole are classic examples, but it is now exemplified by amoxycillin-clavulanate and other oxy-penicillins. Chronic cholestasis results from small bile duct injury leading to the vanishing bile duct syndrome (VBDS), a disorder mimicking primary biliary cirrhosis, or from injury to larger bile ducts causing secondary sclerosing cholangitis. Whilst there is increasing evidence of a genetic predisposition to cholestatic drug reactions, there are currently no pretreatment tests to predict drug safety. Prevention of severe reactions therefore relies on early detection of liver injury and prompt drug withdrawal. Symptomatic management includes relief of pruritus and correction of fat-soluble vitamin deficiency. In small cohort studies, ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) arrested progressive cholestasis in two-thirds of cases, but evidence for use of corticosteroids is anecdotal. This review considers diagnosis, pathogenesis, prevention and management of drug-induced cholestasis, with particular reference to frequently- and newly-described causes.
------

Below is an attached case study (wildly popular) of a person who apprently had major issues from normal superdrol use. Again, the only way the doctor(s) knew his history of use (or abuse) is by what the patient told them. Assuming no other current/previous abuse and no other medication, condition, alcohol abuse, etc., this is very abnormal. If he truly did only consume the normal amount for this amount of time stated (2 weeks) its most likely a genetic predisposition to Drug-induced cholestasis. In this case, a number of drugs or medications could trigger this situation. Normal individuals should not be experiencing the things in this case study or in your post.

You could be prone to drug-induced cholestasis. In this case, i WOULD NOT test my luck with methylated hormones of any kind. You should be careful with anything that is metabolized heavily in the liver or puts stress on it. Other drugs besides these could trigger this for you.
 

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Alpine

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Wur Da Greens At!?
 
T-Bone

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There is something just not right about all of this. Normal people dont piss blood after 5 days of M1T. Superdrol doesnt cause problems like this either unless abused in high doses for a long time. Nothing you have mentioned sounds like blatant abuse. If there is an underlying condition or previous abuse (you left out) it could be different. This is why i asked questions such as medication and so forth. Something like accutane could explain some of it. Antibiotics? HepC?

Either way, this is abnormal and there is more to the story. Either you arent being 100% honest or you are leaving out facts. Perhaps you have an undiagnosed condition. If everything you said is dead on accurate this is VERY abnormal. The only thing I can think of is that you have been pounding potent methyls (m1t, m5aa, superdrol) for a long time and you dont want to admit to really overdoing it. It's annoying when you contribute to a post in an effort to help and then slowly realize that none of it quite adds up. It's a waste of everyones time.

Im not trying to be a ****. If everything is 100% dead on accurate then there is defiantly an issue specific to you. Your liver is not handling anything very well at all. Then again, you have been checked out and they dont find any specific condition or abnormality. Again, makes no sense. There are a few cases of superdrol induced cholestasis attribted to superdrol alone. I still find it hard to believe. There is most likely something going on. Previous abuse not admitted to physician, undiagnosed liver condition, alcohol abuse, genetic condition predisposing patient to abnormal liver function and drug induced cholestasis (most likely). And if not, it IS abnormal for someone's liver to have this much trouble with normal methylated hormone use.

------
Expert Opin Drug Saf. 2003 May;2(3):287-304.

Drug-induced cholestasis.

Velayudham LS, Farrell GC.

Storr Liver Unit, Westmead Millennium Institute, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia.

Drugs may cause several overlapping syndromes of cholestasis, the pathophysiological syndrome resulting from impaired bile flow. These reactions comprise approximately 17% of all hepatic adverse drug reactions (ADRs) and they may be severe. Causes of 'pure' (bland) cholestasis include oestrogens and anabolic steroids; rarer associations are with antimicrobials and NSAIDs. 'Cholestatic hepatitis' is a common drug reaction in which liver injury and inflammation cause significant elevation of serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) as well as cholestasis. Chlorpromazine and ketoconazole are classic examples, but it is now exemplified by amoxycillin-clavulanate and other oxy-penicillins. Chronic cholestasis results from small bile duct injury leading to the vanishing bile duct syndrome (VBDS), a disorder mimicking primary biliary cirrhosis, or from injury to larger bile ducts causing secondary sclerosing cholangitis. Whilst there is increasing evidence of a genetic predisposition to cholestatic drug reactions, there are currently no pretreatment tests to predict drug safety. Prevention of severe reactions therefore relies on early detection of liver injury and prompt drug withdrawal. Symptomatic management includes relief of pruritus and correction of fat-soluble vitamin deficiency. In small cohort studies, ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) arrested progressive cholestasis in two-thirds of cases, but evidence for use of corticosteroids is anecdotal. This review considers diagnosis, pathogenesis, prevention and management of drug-induced cholestasis, with particular reference to frequently- and newly-described causes.
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Below is an attached case study (wildly popular) of a person who apprently had major issues from normal superdrol use. Again, the only way the doctor(s) knew his history of use (or abuse) is by what the patient told them. Assuming no other current/previous abuse and no other medication, condition, alcohol abuse, etc., this is very abnormal. If he truly did only consume the normal amount for this amount of time stated (2 weeks) its most likely a genetic predisposition to Drug-induced cholestasis. In this case, a number of drugs or medications could trigger this situation. Normal individuals should not be experiencing the things in this case study or in your post.

You could be prone to drug-induced cholestasis. In this case, i WOULD NOT test my luck with methylated hormones of any kind. You should be careful with anything that is metabolized heavily in the liver or puts stress on it. Other drugs besides these could trigger this for you.


I was also using 4AD Trans at 1200 mg a day. That is one fact I left out. Sorry about that. Most of the doctors I talked to knew what 4AD was right off. They did concentrate on the Superdrol though because its methylated. No I didn't abuse any methyls. I was in fact scared to start the cycle at first, that is why I took so many ancillarys(sp?)....I took low doses of Nolva on cycle....I was also told that the nolva definitely contributed to the problem. I had planned this cycle out well and had the help of a Mod from this site with planning of it and everyday I would write him and tell him what was going on. My understanding is just that everyone responds differently and I just do not do well on harsh methylated steroids. I did an mdien cycle a long time before the SD cycle and I responded extremely well. I felt great and had amazing strength gains...This is strange because a lot of people just didn't respond at all to mdien......


On that attachment you put on your last post thats how it started with me. I lost my appetite at first. I mean at the begining of the cycle I was eating around 3500 calories a day. By the end I could barely eat 200, and the smell of food made me feel like puke!...Especially protein foods for some reason. I got progressively more and more tired. Than I started itching, I thought maybe it was from dry skin or something. A week went by and no relief so I shaved from head to toe!. That didn't work, in fact the stuble made it worse!. At the end of the 5th week is when I made the first doctor appointment. I was told I had "Steroid induced Anorexia". I asked about the itching, and was told "I don't know maybe its some kind of delayed reation", "Stop taking EVERYTHING"...So I stoped, about 2 weeks later is when my eyes turned yellow at the supermarket....It wasn't even my regular doctor who I saw at the first appointment because she wasn't available. No since I had been off the cycle and everything, no supps at all, you would think things would get better but obviously they got worse(my eyes turned yellow). Then when I first got to the ER of course they took my blood and found out my billiruben levels were sky high. You would still think it would be getting better at least a little bit?. No though, they kept checking and my levels just kept climbing. Something elese I remember now is also that my Kidney was also not functioning correctly.....

Ok and another thing, when I ask questions to the doctors at the hospitals, they are extremely rude and cocky. Half the time they are just not available to answer my questions!. The guy that was the head of the transplant team at Lahey though did seem to know what he was talking about. I didn't question him. He said that my billiruben levels were the highests he has seen, off the charts. Supposedly they were supose to peak, and then level off and then go down. It was just taking forever, and they kept rising...When they finally did go down it was by one or two....It took at least four months out of the hospital before I finally had positive blood work. Yes there may be some finite details that I may have left out but this was almost two years ago. Again, I have a hard time remembering certain things. Especially after they finally did give me some drugs, clonazepam, citrolapam, Bruproprien(because I saw a shrink when I was in the hospital). The shrink thought I had OCD, and this is after a consultation in which I had already had had no sleep for almost two months talking to her from my hospital bed!....Gee, you take too many supplements, here are some DRUGS!!!!...Don't you love the way the medical community thinks?....I currently take no medications, and think I will decline any medications in the future!
 
Alpine

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I would say its likely that you could be prone to drug-induced cholestasis. I would avoid this stuff in the future...
 

same_old

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There is something just not right about all of this. Normal people dont piss blood after 5 days of M1T. Superdrol doesnt cause problems like this either unless abused in high doses for a long time. Nothing you have mentioned sounds like blatant abuse. If there is an underlying condition or previous abuse (you left out) it could be different. This is why i asked questions such as medication and so forth. Something like accutane could explain some of it. Antibiotics? HepC?

Either way, this is abnormal and there is more to the story. Either you arent being 100% honest or you are leaving out facts. Perhaps you have an undiagnosed condition. If everything you said is dead on accurate this is VERY abnormal. The only thing I can think of is that you have been pounding potent methyls (m1t, m5aa, superdrol) for a long time and you dont want to admit to really overdoing it. It's annoying when you contribute to a post in an effort to help and then slowly realize that none of it quite adds up. It's a waste of everyones time.

Im not trying to be a ****. If everything is 100% dead on accurate then there is defiantly an issue specific to you. Your liver is not handling anything very well at all. Then again, you have been checked out and they dont find any specific condition or abnormality. Again, makes no sense. There are a few cases of superdrol induced cholestasis attribted to superdrol alone. I still find it hard to believe. There is most likely something going on. Previous abuse not admitted to physician, undiagnosed liver condition, alcohol abuse, genetic condition predisposing patient to abnormal liver function and drug induced cholestasis (most likely). And if not, it IS abnormal for someone's liver to have this much trouble with normal methylated hormone use.
i've been saying this from the word GO, but it's apparently not hitting home for T-Bone. whatever his condition is that caused this serious problem (and we may never know), the absolute LAST thing he should do is tempt fate again. and for what??? there are far too many great non-hormonal supps out there.

T-Bone: you seem like a nice enough guy. i know steroids are fun, but you're going to need to find another hobby besides juice. sell your stash and buy your girl something pretty, or get a dog or something!
 
yeahright

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I started at 20mg and went up to 30 for a few days mid cycle but didn't see any difference so went back down to 20. I cut the cycle short at the end of the 5th week...

Ummmm, well I still think you have some predisposition (or perhaps got a coincident virus) making you react so badly to this substance but even assuming none of that is true, your superdrol cycle wasn't a good one.

Unless someone has already established that they have a safety threshold with superdrol (pre and post cycle bloodwork), the standard advice is for a 3 week cycle of 10, 20, 20 or maybe 10, 20, 30.

You did 5 weeks of 20 (some days at 30) and "cut your cycle short" meaning you intended to keep going this way. That's going to be hard on most people regardless. You essentially double dosed (twice the mg for twice the time) that most people use this substance.
 
T-Bone

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i've been saying this from the word GO, but it's apparently not hitting home for T-Bone. whatever his condition is that caused this serious problem (and we may never know), the absolute LAST thing he should do is tempt fate again. and for what??? there are far too many great non-hormonal supps out there.

T-Bone: you seem like a nice enough guy. i know steroids are fun, but you're going to need to find another hobby besides juice. sell your stash and buy your girl something pretty, or get a dog or something!


Yes I am not dead set on using what I have. I just wish I could trade them all for something I could use without worry...Its just that I spent a lot of money on what I mentioned I have, so I hate to see it go to waste, but on the other hand anyone who is normal would not even think about using any kind steroid ever again after what happened to me...I'm just worried about the wasted money....Then I think that M4ohn is supposedly the least harsh Methyl....I don't think I will use it though because of all the reactions I got on here. I like hearing a lot of differing opinions on what people would do in my situation. Most are saying I should never use them again, even if they are non-methylated.
 
T-Bone

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Ummmm, well I still think you have some predisposition (or perhaps got a coincident virus) making you react so badly to this substance but even assuming none of that is true, your superdrol cycle wasn't a good one.

Unless someone has already established that they have a safety threshold with superdrol (pre and post cycle bloodwork), the standard advice is for a 3 week cycle of 10, 20, 20 or maybe 10, 20, 30.

You did 5 weeks of 20 (some days at 30) and "cut your cycle short" meaning you intended to keep going this way. That's going to be hard on most people regardless. You essentially double dosed (twice the mg for twice the time) that most people use this substance.


Back then it seemed most people were running between 20-40mg for 4-6 weeks. I did look around to see what everyone elese was dosing it at before I started, and like I said I did have help with the planning. I still think though that even if I only ran it at 10mg I would have had the same problem. Back when I ran M1T for 5 days I only used 5mg once a day, and that made me piss blood on the 5th day!.
 
riskarb

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Back when I ran M1T for 5 days I only used 5mg once a day, and that made me piss blood on the 5th day!.
Wow.

I did 20mg/day/5weeks of the first LG M1T batch and my only complaint was lethargy. My lipids were phucked, but ALT/ASTs were only slightly elevated. However, I was taking a gram of silybin and r-ALA at the time. I was doing a panel EOD. Sides are proportionally-linear w.r.t. dosage. 10mg is not 30mg.

Run a month of toremifene to get your boys operating at their peak and lift heavy. Do some nettle root or other saponin product like powerfull. Nettle root is reported to improved lipids as well.

I do heavy "CNS" lifts late in the day for hGH release and take 2G of alpha-GPC at bedtime for same. It's always helped me to break a plateau.

The insidious thing about gear is the delusion that it's somehow contributing to a healthy lifestyle, which is complete BS.

Stay the phuck away from orals.
 
yeahright

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Back then it seemed most people were running between 20-40mg for 4-6 weeks. I did look around to see what everyone elese was dosing it at before I started, and like I said I did have help with the planning. I still think though that even if I only ran it at 10mg I would have had the same problem. Back when I ran M1T for 5 days I only used 5mg once a day, and that made me piss blood on the 5th day!.
Your body doesn't like these substances. Stay away from them is my advice.
 
Formula94

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When you stated that you hadn't had a drink in years, is that a personal choice or are you a recovering alcoholic? If you previously abused alcohol that could have done major damage to your liver and predisposed you to liver conditions. Either way, stay away from anything hepatoxic.
 

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Forget the orals and just go with some good ol test!!
 

same_old

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Back when I ran M1T for 5 days I only used 5mg once a day, and that made me piss blood on the 5th day!.
lol...you are nuts bro! i should flame you til you're a small pile of ashes, but i cant, you are so damnably sweet about your bloody piss and yellow eyes. *sigh*

dont be a retard, bro. sell your stash, redirect your energy to your diet and make even more gains.
 
sdmf45

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Yes I am not dead set on using what I have. I just wish I could trade them all for something I could use without worry...Its just that I spent a lot of money on what I mentioned I have, so I hate to see it go to waste, but on the other hand anyone who is normal would not even think about using any kind steroid ever again after what happened to me...I'm just worried about the wasted money....Then I think that M4ohn is supposedly the least harsh Methyl....I don't think I will use it though because of all the reactions I got on here. I like hearing a lot of differing opinions on what people would do in my situation. Most are saying I should never use them again, even if they are non-methylated.

Wasted $$$$$ Thats what you are worried about. F*** the money unless you like being in the hospital. If that s*** happened to me I would never use another product like that again.

I can't believe your even considering this. Health is far more important than muscle which you seemed to have lost anyways being in the hospital. What does your wife think about all this? Think about her i'm sure she doesn't want to see you in there again for the same s***. I'm not tryin to flame you but come on think about what you are considering.
 
T-Bone

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When you stated that you hadn't had a drink in years, is that a personal choice or are you a recovering alcoholic? If you previously abused alcohol that could have done major damage to your liver and predisposed you to liver conditions. Either way, stay away from anything hepatoxic.


No, I never was an alcoholic. I did drink a lot in high school. I pretty much stoped drinking at age 21. So yeah its more of a personal choice.
 

glsa17

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Holy S**t! I just read you original post from the link. F'in crazy.
 
T-Bone

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Ok yes you guys are right. I would be a retard to do another cycle. I am working on getting my diet back in order right now. I just have to make a few adjustments. I have plenty of resources and know what I have to do, just have to stop being so lazy. I had everything perfect before I went in the hospital. Its just that it is very difficult because when you have problems with your liver you lose a lot of muscle, so much so when I got back to the gym finally it was like I had never worked out in my life. So I am gaining muscle and strength, its just taking a while.


I am happy to have survived, so when you all think, "T-bone, shut the hell up and follow a good diet, work hard and you will get results, it wouldn't be crazy to do another cycle just plain stupid, get over yourself already!", You are correct!.


So thanks guys, I think this thread has been beaten to death, and I'm going to just trash the rest of my stuff. I will just deal with the money lost. Yes it was a stupid idea, should have trashed it a long time ago!
 

glsa17

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Good for you T-Bone! You made the right decision.
 
BigVrunga

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I would avoid steroids, alcohol and tylenol for the rest of my life if I was in your situation.
If that happened to me, I would definitely follow that advice. If you do decide to cycle again, be sure to get a blood test before, during, and after PCT.
 

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