Least liver-harsh PH?

[SpicedCider]

I know that AMS/FRL products are pretty mild, but which PH is generally considered to be the safest in terms of liver harshness? Is there any particular one that is known to be safer than most others?

 

[Cordeen]

You can include ANDROFACTORY to your list.

 

[SpicedCider]

Of course!

But aside from the DHEA isomers (which are great products themselves), which oral PH's tend to be less liver-harsh and generally safer?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Promagnon

 

[SpicedCider]

Thanks -- so that would be something like Mechabol by Antaeus Labs? Still open to other suggestions as well...

 

[monohydrate78]

Helladrol or any of the halodrol clones. Epistane is supposed to be fairly mild too!

 

[ELROCK]

Obviously something thnon-menthylated PHs is the area you should be looking. Hopefully, someone else here can chime in here to give you an exact non-menthylated PH that is proven to be safe and effective.

 

[gkulek]

Stano, u can add it to any cycle

 

[amiller745]

Stano, 11-oxo, epi, halo, and DHEA product

 

[OnionKnight]

stano, 11oxo, lmg, tvar

 

[gkulek]

So what do I guys think is the best non methylated ???

I go with stano again since it helps with pretty much any cycle cut/bulk and anything in between

 

[kenpoengineer]

So what do I guys think is the best non methylated ???

I'd check out Finaflex's 1Andro. Had a good run on that one with low side issues.

 

[hvactech]

So what do I guys think is the best non methylated ???

I go with stano again since it helps with pretty much any cycle cut/bulk and anything in between

stano solo will disappoint you for the money spent.

 

[gkulek]

stano solo will disappoint you for the money spent.

I totally agree

 

[SpicedCider]

Thanks for the suggestions. This is going to come across as a dumb question to most of you guys, but is stano the same thing as 5-DHEA? Or am I thinking of a different steroid whose name is similar to "stano?"

Also, between LMG and Trenavar, which one do you guys like best? Even though they're not methylated, how rough are the side effects in general for these two?

 

[amiller745]

Thanks for the suggestions. This is going to come across as a dumb question to most of you guys, but is stano the same thing as 5-DHEA? Or am I thinking of a different steroid whose name is similar to "stano?"

Also, between LMG and Trenavar, which one do you guys like best? Even though they're not methylated, how rough are the side effects in general for these two?

Yes stano and 5-DHEA are the same. And it depends on your goals. Tvar is great for recomping or cutting, and LMG is a bulker.

 

[SpicedCider]

Yes stano and 5-DHEA are the same. And it depends on your goals. Tvar is great for recomping or cutting, and LMG is a bulker.

With my stats, I would probably be better off taking a bulking agent like LMG (my weight is actually down to 149 now due to a thyroid condition I developed in early February). Do you have any personal experience with LMG? What did you notice in regards to side effects? The main thing I'm worried about with a "wet" compound like LMG is gyno... do you think taking an AI like 7-keto-DHEA would be enough to block those kinds of side effects?

Also, I already have a 90-count bottle of 5-Alpha-Test (PH to stano), so I should be covered in the lethargy/libido-loss department.

 

[Veritatis]

Trenazone... dienazone

 

[gymrat99]

I just finished Cel Furuza-a and Bulk-up and put in 15 lbs.. Its also not just what you taking but also your diet, (macros) and your lifting. Both these products are non methyl but still shut me down a little. MAke sure you have a good pct also. don't do the over the counter crap. Get some clomid or torem with DAA.

 

[harbonah]

DHEA metabolite Stano or 11oxo,11kt, Furuza-A then probably dplex or protomax clones then follow with the list of methyls. The one exception might be anything that converted to "1Test or what 1andro then test as it has shown liver strain with out being a methyl" in the past < this is anecdotal evidence only from me I have not researched the chemicals.

 

[ELROCK]

LMG seems like a solid non- menthylated prohormone to run solo since you are looking to bulk. Just make sure to run a quality AI along side it as well as a PCT.

 

[SpicedCider]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Since I severely need to start bulking up, I'm thinking about getting a couple bottles of LMG and taking it with the 1-Andro (1-DHEA) and 5-Alpha (Stano PH) I have laying around.

For any of you guys who have run cycles of LMG -- what did you notice in terms of side effects? Also, what did you use for PCT? In my research, I've found that an OTC PCT is considered "enough," but I just wanted to be sure.

Trenazone... dienazone

What is a fairly realistic amount of muscle that could be expected to be gained during a "typical" cycle? Also, how bad is shut down and side effects in general? Does this cause "night terrors" like I've heard the original trenbolone causes? LOL

 

[monohydrate78]

I've run Trenazone and it wasn't bad. No sides but its a topical and not the most convenient thing. Non methylated doesn't mean non toxic. Tren and LMG can still be toxic. I personally like halodrol. Can be used to bulk or recomp and its very mild. It is a methyl but with a decent liver support and a cycle support, you're good to go. Easy recovery and low to no sides. That's my personal favorite!

 

[harbonah]

I've run Trenazone and it wasn't bad. No sides but its a topical and not the most convenient thing. Non methylated doesn't mean non toxic. Tren and LMG can still be toxic. I personally like halodrol. Can be used to bulk or recomp and its very mild. It is a methyl but with a decent liver support and a cycle support, you're good to go. Easy recovery and low to no sides. That's my personal favorite!

When you say tren are you talking about trenazone? Because I would expect a similar toxcity for that. I thought I read something about dienolone and liver damage...shot is running together ill have to look for it later..

 

[monohydrate78]

Tren is a generalized term for those type of compounds. My understanding is that due to the topical delivery, Trenazone should not have an impact on liver. I'm no expert in this but that's what I found in various places. Trenavar could also be toxic even with it not being methylated. I have heard and been told that LMG does have some level of toxicity to it.

 

[SpicedCider]

Interesting to hear that LMG and trenazone may exert toxicity. At this point, I think I have narrowed it down to one (both?) of those compounds, stacked with AMS 1-Andro and 5-Alpha-Test. Between LMG and trenazone, which one have you guys had/seen better results with?

 

[jbryand101b]

D/t the structure of trenbolone and dienolone, both are more resistant to breakdown than testosterone.

Max lmg is 13b ethylated (aka 18 methyl)
This is to help strengthen the compounds oral bioavailability.

 

[SpicedCider]

D/t the structure of trenbolone and dienolone, both are more resistant to breakdown than testosterone.

Max lmg is 13b ethylated (aka 18 methyl)
This is to help strengthen the compounds oral bioavailability.

So a compound being 13b-ethylated is just as toxic as one that is 18-methylated?

 

[jbryand101b]

So a compound being 13b-ethylated is just as toxic as one that is 18-methylated?

They are the same, just different ways of writing them

 

[SpicedCider]

They are the same, just different ways of writing them

So are there any not-as-harsh methylated PH's out there, or is everything fairly harsh? Even though LMG is technically methylated, would you say is the least harsh PH? I'm already taking a methylated antithyroid drug (methimazole), and as soon as I'm done taking it (hopefully mid-July), I can't wait to start a cycle. But obviously, going from one methyl to another isn't really a good idea, which is why I was hoping something like LMG would be relatively safe. Is there *anything* at all out there, or am I stuck with 1-DHEA and 5-DHEA?

 

[jbryand101b]

Yes, it is less harsh.
Hdrol is another nice one.

 

[SpicedCider]

Yes, it is less harsh.
Hdrol is another nice one.

Thanks again. Okay, this is the last time I will harass you -- between Protodrol and LMG, do you know if one is less toxic than the other?

 

[amiller745]

Hdrol is good for anything. It'll really help whatever you're trying to do, whether it be cut or bulk.

 

[SpicedCider]

Hdrol is good for anything. It'll really help whatever you're trying to do, whether it be cut or bulk.

Appreciate the suggestion, but I have heard (not sure if this is true) that Protodrol and LMG are more effective for gaining mass while also being milder. Again, this is just something I've heard -- basically, I want to take whichever PH will help me gain the most mass, especially since I've essentially lost all the muscle I ever gained.

I was also looking at M1,4ADD, but I've heard that one tends to be more harsh.

 

[jbryand101b]

Thanks again. Okay, this is the last time I will harass you -- between Protodrol and LMG, do you know if one is less toxic than the other?

Lmg is less toxic, but has more risk of sides.

 

[monohydrate78]

From the posts that I have seen on Trenazone by Antaeus Labs reps, it should not be liver toxic due to its delivery. The way I see it is, at some point it has to go through the liver and may have some toxicity to it but it may not. This is just my thought on it. I'm not a chemist!

Trenavar is oral and it could have some toxicity also but again, I'm not a chemist and I'm not sure how the body breaks this down.

They can all have negative side effects and those will also depend on you and your dosage. How toxic are these? A lot of it could depend on the dosage too!

I've run Trenazone and other then no libido, everything else came back normal. My cholesterol levels were a little off but nothing that would indicate a problem. Hdl went down a few points but was still around 50. Total went up 10 points but stayed below 200. I kept proper supports and everything was fine.

 

[harbonah]

From the posts that I have seen on Trenazone by Antaeus Labs reps, it should not be liver toxic due to its delivery. The way I see it is, at some point it has to go through the liver and may have some toxicity to it but it may not. This is just my thought on it. I'm not a chemist! Trenavar is oral and it could have some toxicity also but again, I'm not a chemist and I'm not sure how the body breaks this down. They can all have negative side effects and those will also depend on you and your dosage. How toxic are these? A lot of it could depend on the dosage too! I've run Trenazone and other then no libido, everything else came back normal. My cholesterol levels were a little off but nothing that would indicate a problem. Hdl went down a few points but was still around 50. Total went up 10 points but stayed below 200. I kept proper supports and everything was fine.

The whole if you avoiding first pass its not toxic is a myth you liver still has to filter it from blood so it is still toxic.

 

[monohydrate78]

Right! That's what I was saying in the beginning! These substances, methylated or not, can be just as harsh on the body. Use proper supports and you'll be fine.

 

[SpicedCider]

Lmg is less toxic, but has more risk of sides.

Do you mean a higher risk of estrogen-related sides like bloat, gyno, etc.? And I forgot to ask this earlier, but.... between LMG and Trenavar, which is less toxic in your opinion?

 

[jbryand101b]

Do you mean a higher risk of estrogen-related sides like bloat, gyno, etc.? And I forgot to ask this earlier, but.... between LMG and Trenavar, which is less toxic in your opinion?

Idk, trenavar maybe.

 

[mw1]

Do you mean a higher risk of estrogen-related sides like bloat, gyno, etc.?

Yes.. I would use a low dose of Topical Form or Erase w/ LMG

 

[amiller745]

Appreciate the suggestion, but I have heard (not sure if this is true) that Protodrol and LMG are more effective for gaining mass while also being milder. Again, this is just something I've heard -- basically, I want to take whichever PH will help me gain the most mass, especially since I've essentially lost all the muscle I ever gained.

I was also looking at M1,4ADD, but I've heard that one tends to be more harsh.

I've never tried protodrol or lmg, but halo will definitely put mass on you without putting a lot of strain on your liver. Back when I ran my first hdrol cycle, I put on 11 pounds in 6 weeks.