DMZ if absolutely user dependent! Some respond, some don't. But without knowing the users experience, dedication, and follow through, it's absolutely unfair to label any manufacturers products "bunk" off a random poster on here. There Msten, and alpha 1 is legit, but I'd consider myself experienced. Meaning I can make gains without these PED's, but with them can achieve a whole lot more! But DMZ is nothing more than a hardening agent/cutting agent IMO. If un-experienced users are expecting test/Deca like gains off anything in a 4 week cycle, and keep it, you need to do your homework. I swear by their alpha-1 for gaining solid, keepable gains, and with proper diet and training, their msten is even better!