All aboard the Betaine train.

[kissdadookie]

Chemistry :smashfreakB:

Bwah ha ha ha ha.

 

[CJ_Xfit89]

To all my broskis,

Merry Christmas from Australia!!!

Chris

 

[rjp3900]

Posted by admin on Feb 6, 2014 in Featured, Studies | 0 comments
[h=1]Dietary nitrate reduces resting metabolic rate: a randomized, crossover study in humans[/h]Filip J Larsen,Tomas A Schiffer,Björn Ekblom,Mathias P Mattsson,Antonio Checa,Craig E Wheelock,Thomas Nyström,Jon O Lundberg, and Eddie Weitzberg
+ Author Affiliations
1From the Departments of Physiology and Pharmacology (FJL, TAS, MPM, JOL, and EW), Medical Biochemistry and Biophysics, Division of Physiological Chemistry II (AC and CEW), and Clinical Science and Education, Södersjukhuset (TN), Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, and the Åstrand Laboratory of Work Physiology, The Swedish School of Sport and Health Sciences, Stockholm, Sweden (BE).
+ Author Notes
↵2 Supported by Torsten Söderbergs Foundation, the Swedish Research Council, EU (Flaviola), and the Swedish Heart and Lung Foundation, and the Swedish National Center for Research in Sports.
↵3 Address correspondence to FJ Larsen, Nanna Svartz väg 2, 17177 Stockholm, Sweden. E-mail: filip.larsen@ki.

Abstract
Background: Nitrate, which is an inorganic anion abundant in vegetables, increases the efficiency of isolated human mitochondria. Such an effect might be reflected in changes in the resting metabolic rate (RMR) and formation of reactive oxygen species. The bioactivation of nitrate involves its active accumulation in saliva followed by a sequential reduction to nitrite, nitric oxide, and other reactive nitrogen species.
Objective: We studied effects of inorganic nitrate, in amounts that represented a diet rich in vegetables, on the RMR in healthy volunteers.
Design: In a randomized, double-blind, crossover study, we measured the RMR by using indirect calorimetry in 13 healthy volunteers after a 3-d dietary intervention with sodium nitrate (NaNO3) or a placebo (NaCl). The nitrate dose (0.1 mmol ⋅ kg−1 ⋅ d−1) corresponded to the amount in 200–300 g spinach, beetroot, lettuce, or other vegetable that was rich in nitrate. Effects of direct nitrite exposure on cell respiration were studied in cultured human primary myotubes.
Results: The RMR was 4.2% lower after nitrate compared with placebo administration, and the change correlated strongly to the degree of nitrate accumulation in saliva (r2 = 0.71). The thyroid hormone status, insulin sensitivity, glucose uptake, plasma concentration of isoprostanes, and total antioxidant capacity were unaffected by nitrate. The administration of nitrite to human primary myotubes acutely inhibited respiration.
Conclusions: Dietary inorganic nitrate reduces the RMR. This effect may have implications for the regulation of metabolic function in health and disease.

 

[haiz69]

To be completely honest, I wouldn't worry about the above study if you like your nitrates. I'm sure Coop and others could comment more than I, but a massive benefit of nitrates (as shown in the research) is a Reduced O2 cost of exercise. With this increased efficiency you would get a drop in RMR most likely if you are dosing nitrates all the time. It shouldn't be a big deal in the High-Intensity Exercise and Lifting population in the context within which nitrates are used.

That's my 2 cents at least.

 

[T-Bone]

Just purchased some of this stuff. I made sure it was "Trimethylglycine". Enough for 3 grams a day for 1.5 months.

 

[ZiR RED]

Our review has been published.

Amino Acids. 2014 Apr 24. [Epub ahead of print]
Effects of betaine on performance and body composition: a review of recent findings and potential mechanisms.
Cholewa JM1, Guimarães-Ferreira L, Zanchi NE.
Author information
Abstract
Betaine is a methyl derivative of glycine first isolated from sugar beets. Betaine consumed from food sources and through dietary supplements presents similar bioavailability and is metabolized to di-methylglycine and sarcosine in the liver. The ergogenic and clinical effects of betaine have been investigated with doses ranging from 500 to 9,000 mg/day. Some studies using animal models and human subjects suggest that betaine supplementation could promote adiposity reductions and/or lean mass gains. Moreover, previous investigations report positive effects of betaine on sports performance in both endurance- and resistance-type exercise, despite some conflicting results. The mechanisms underlying these effects are poorly understood, but could involve the stimulation of lipolysis and inhibition of lipogenesis via gene expression and subsequent activity of lipolytic-/lipogenic-related proteins, stimulation of autocrine/endocrine IGF-1 release and insulin receptor signaling pathways, stimulation of growth hormone secretion, increased creatine synthesis, increases in protein synthesis via intracellular hyper-hydration, as well as exerting psychological effects such as attenuating sensations of fatigue. However, the exact mechanisms behind betaine action and the long-term effects of supplementation on humans remain to be elucidated. This review aims to describe evidence for the use of betaine as an ergogenic and esthetic aid, and discuss the potential mechanisms underlying these effects.
PMID: 24760587 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24760587

 

[Synapsin]

Our review has been published.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24760587

Very nice work. It's cool to have you on here.

 

[kisaj]

To be completely honest, I wouldn't worry about the above study if you like your nitrates. I'm sure Coop and others could comment more than I, but a massive benefit of nitrates (as shown in the research) is a Reduced O2 cost of exercise. With this increased efficiency you would get a drop in RMR most likely if you are dosing nitrates all the time. It shouldn't be a big deal in the High-Intensity Exercise and Lifting population in the context within which nitrates are used.

That's my 2 cents at least.

Potassium Nitrate is amazing in this regard.

 

[Beau]

Potassium Nitrate is amazing in this regard.

Yes, and it is very inexpensive when purchased as a powder.

 

[mcc23]

Yes, and it is very inexpensive when purchased as a powder.

Is amazon or Ebay a good place to look for KNO3 powder?

 

[Beau]

Is amazon or Ebay a good place to look for KNO3 powder?

I think there are rules about posting specific sites (otherwise I would), but if you search under "USP Food Grade Potassium Nitrate" I believe you will find several scientific chemical companies that fit the bill. That is where I purchased mine.

 

[Jakey]

So, Betaine should be dosed at 1.25g - Twice a day for six weeks? Can you go for longer?

 

[ZiR RED]

So, Betaine should be dosed at 1.25g - Twice a day for six weeks? Can you go for longer?

2.5g per day. You don't have to split it.

Duration could be longer than 6 weeks. It has been shown safe at 5-6g/day for upwards of 12-18 weeks in people with hyperhomocystinemia.

 

[Jakey]

2.5g per day. You don't have to split it.

Duration could be longer than 6 weeks. It has been shown safe at 5-6g/day for upwards of 12-18 weeks in people with hyperhomocystinemia.

Thank you. 2.5g at once certainly makes it more convenient.

 

[Driven2lift]

2.5g per day. You don't have to split it.

Duration could be longer than 6 weeks. It has been shown safe at 5-6g/day for upwards of 12-18 weeks in people with hyperhomocystinemia.

How common is hyperhomocystemia? Prior to reading up on TMG I had never heard of it

 

[ZiR RED]

How common is hyperhomocystemia? Prior to reading up on TMG I had never heard of it

I actually do not know the epidemiology off the top of my head. I know it can be genetic or diet/life style induced.

 

[kisaj]

Any studies or reasons that TMG may flare up rosacea? I just started taking it and all of a sudden I am getting old symptoms back and I haven't had anything in many years. Coincidence?

 

[ZiR RED]

Perhaps. I haven't heard anything about it in my research, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be an interaction

 

[kisaj]

Is it considered an inflammatory? I know I have heard people with rosacea should not use ARA because of this.

 

[ZiR RED]

No, it actually has anti-inflammatory effects.

 

[Pec.Major]

Can you use Betaine(TMG) all year around or does it need to be cycled?

 

[T-Bone]

Optimal time to dose this stuff?...I've just been taking with food, following label directions. I know actually following label directions is out of the ordinary on this board....

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Can you use Betaine(TMG) all year around or does it need to be cycled?

I don't think there is any reason it need be cycled..that said, I like to cycle everything I do

Optimal time to dose this stuff?...I've just been taking with food, following label directions. I know actually following label directions is out of the ordinary on this board....

wait - there are directions on the label? :think:
dosing time does not matter, you may want to take with food as it upsets some individuals stomachs, but like creatine dosing there is no definitive advantage to any specific timeframe dosing
me, I take it with my preWO mix, ~30min before training

 

[Quadzilla99]

Coop was saying it causes some slight hormonal shifts that might make it advantageous to take preworkout. Didn't sound like he thought it made a big difference though

 

[T-Bone]

The stuff definitely stirs up my IBS symptoms. So I'd guess I'm better off taking it with food.

 

[mcc23]

The stuff definitely stirs up my IBS symptoms. So I'd guess I'm better off taking it with food.

My stomach used to get upset when taking TMG with PWO, but it seems as though that's dissipated now. Good luck

 

[Synapsin]

The stuff definitely stirs up my IBS symptoms. So I'd guess I'm better off taking it with food.

Split the dose to avoid that.

 

[T-Bone]

Split the dose to avoid that.

I do three caps of 500 mg, and another 3 caps several hours later. Both times I've taken it with food. Would it matter if I took it pre workout on an empty stomach?. I mean would it make any difference at all?

 

[aaronuconn]

I do three caps of 500 mg, and another 3 caps several hours later. Both times I've taken it with food. Would it matter if I took it pre workout on an empty stomach?. I mean would it make any difference at all?

Coop was saying it causes some slight hormonal shifts that might make it advantageous to take preworkout. Didn't sound like he thought it made a big difference though

^^^

 

[aaronuconn]

My stomach used to get upset when taking TMG with PWO, but it seems as though that's dissipated now. Good luck

Mine only would get upset above 3g or so.

 

[Synapsin]

Jealous, waiting for mine to get here.

 

[chedapalooza]

2.5g per day. You don't have to split it.

Duration could be longer than 6 weeks. It has been shown safe at 5-6g/day for upwards of 12-18 weeks in people with hyperhomocystinemia.

Disregard my fb message to you! Found it finally haha

 

[DarthGainer]

Any benefits in using 6g a day?

 

[Jiigzz]

Any benefits in using 6g a day?

Perhaps if you have hyperhomocystemia.

 

[Quadzilla99]

There haven't really been extensive dose comparison studies that measure stuff like saturation and excretion like with creatine/beta alanine etc but Zir Red recommends 2.5 grams a day and since he conducted the studies seems like he knows more than anyone. No harm in taking 3-4 grams a day if you want since its super safe. I take like 3.5 since I weigh about 275-280 now and am like twice the size of some lifters. I mean doesn't make sense to me that since my muscles are way bigger I wouldn't need than more than a 150 lber or whatever but for all we know 2.5 could more than enough for even someone like me

 

[T-Bone]

There haven't really been extensive dose comparison studies that measure stuff like saturation and excretion like with creatine/beta alanine etc but Zir Red recommends 2.5 grams a day and since he conducted the studies seems like he knows more than anyone. No harm in taking 3-4 grams a day if you want since its super safe. I take like 3.5 since I weigh about 275-280 now and am like twice the size of some lifters. I mean doesn't make sense to me that since my muscles are way bigger I wouldn't need than more than a 150 lber or whatever but for all we know 2.5 could more than enough for even someone like me

I've seen some supplement dosages based on weight but the majority of them I don't think the dosage changes whether your 150 or 350.

 

[Synapsin]

Any benefits in using 6g a day?

From a cost:benefit ratio, I doubt 6 g a day would be worthwhile.

 

[chedapalooza]

From a cost:benefit ratio, I doubt 6 g a day would be worthwhile.

Right, the benefits at 2.5g daily are very promising and well documented. definitely no reason to exceed that

 

[DarthGainer]

Just saw Komodo Elite Essential Betaine= 100 servings of 3g.

 

[raz_kaz248]

Any benefit/major difference between betaine anhydrous and betaine nitrate?

 

[Driven2lift]

Any benefit/major difference between betaine anhydrous and betaine nitrate?

Negligible amount of Betaine in the nitrate mixes.

I would still add 3g TMG on top if you are looking for the Betaine benefits.

 

[chedapalooza]

Negligible amount of Betaine in the nitrate mixes.

I would still add 3g TMG on top if you are looking for the Betaine benefits.

Nitrate mixes meaning Finaflex max pump?

 

[kbayne]

Nitrate mixes meaning Finaflex max pump?

That or MuscleTechs new Betaine product.

 

[raz_kaz248]

Yes, i was thinking of picking up a bottle of Finaflex's MaxPump...guess not

 

[Driven2lift]

Yes, i was thinking of picking up a bottle of Finaflex's MaxPump...guess not

Nitrates are great regardless but if you are looking for Betaine benefits grab some bulk TMG

 

[Jiigzz]

Yes, i was thinking of picking up a bottle of Finaflex's MaxPump...guess not

I think max pump has a hefty serving of betaine given the size of the blend and the small amount of nitrates needed

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Negligible amount of Betaine in the nitrate mixes.

I would still add 3g TMG on top if you are looking for the Betaine benefits.

that is a patently false statement
you should clarify specific products if you have one in mind, because it has no truth in relation to our MAX PUMP
it is also a disservice to these other guys, who buy into this false information, such as these guys..

Nitrate mixes meaning Finaflex max pump?

That or MuscleTechs new Betaine product.

Yes, i was thinking of picking up a bottle of Finaflex's MaxPump...guess not

then, you further compound your misinformation, with this:

Nitrates are great regardless but if you are looking for Betaine benefits grab some bulk TMG

I am surprised, because you usually provide nice and spot-on information
please clarify your statement here

I think max pump has a hefty serving of betaine given the size of the blend and the small amount of nitrates needed

thank you, this is the correct assessment
we appreciate your relevant and factual response

 

[raz_kaz248]

so how much betaine in MaxPump then?

 

[Driven2lift]

so how much betaine in MaxPump then?

This.

Its not that I am putting down the product it us just that I can't tell someone they are getting the proper TMG benefits from a product with a prop blend.

I have no idea how much Betaine is in it which is why I said that I personally would add bulk Betaine to be safe.

Not at all putting down the product, as I said as a nitrate product it is great I just can't say with any degree if certainty if there us enough TMG in the product to provide those benefits.

I love nitrates, this product being no exception. My apologies if I came across in a negative way.

Would you say then that the product has a decent amount of Betaine?

 

[kbayne]

I know it's MT, but in their product it tells you exactly how much Betaine Nitrate and Betaine Anhydrous you're getting.