1ifeblood Breaks On Through to the Other Side!

[TheSwanks]

Yeah bud. Heading home Saturday. Don't really want to lol

Lol don't blame you man

 

[1ifeblood]

Too cute! That sad face pic is too much!

Oh man... my heart melts every time she does it. If she still looks THAT cute when she's older, I'm screwed lol. How am I supposed to say no to a face like that?

 

[1ifeblood]

Checking in from koh samui for this big boy! Will have to catch up later but when I get back down under be sure ill be following!! Kill it!

I was about to send you an invite too! Thanks for joining bro... hope you and the wife had a great time! Not like there's any way you couldn't lol.

 

[iparatroop]

I like penguins.

 

[MrKleen73]

She is gorgeous and ya that sad face is too much. Don't worry, when it is intentional to manipulate you it has much less power. Has earned my daughter some disciplinary action a few times...

 

[1ifeblood]

I like penguins.

^^This^^

 

[1ifeblood]

She is gorgeous and ya that sad face is too much. Don't worry, when it is intentional to manipulate you it has much less power. Has earned my daughter some disciplinary action a few times...

Lol...Its just proof that women start to hone their abilities at a very early age.

 

[classic34]

CoQ10 200mg every morning to avoid bp issues. Works awesome every time. Seriously, don't cycle without it

I second this, or better yet ubiquinol. Costco has a great price on it.

 

[TheSwanks]

I second this, or better yet ubiquinol. Costco has a great price on it.

If you can get it at a good price absolutely. That's the active agent in CoQ10

 

[1ifeblood]

I second this, or better yet ubiquinol. Costco has a great price on it.

I've already got enough to get me through my run of dbol but I'll definitely look into ubiquinol to have just in case. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[snagencyV2.0]

adorable girl bro, congrats

 

[Lukef2000]

First off bro all caught up. Looks like you've got yourself a lot of knowledge already in this thread.
Secondly damn bro that is one super cute daughter! That sad face is adorable!
Thirdly in the hopefully unlikely case you do develop gyno I would run the letro gyno reversal a bit differently. If you can find the sweet spot dosage wise to keep it at bay while on cycle I would attack it post pct. taper your dose up like
Day1 .5mg
Day 2 1mg
Day 3 1.5mg etc etc up to 2.5mg ten continue at that dose until the lump subsides then taper back down and switch to a suicidal AI then discontinue. Have seen this protocol work first hand on numerous occasions. If you wanted to attack it on cycle swanks advice would probably work although I'd want to stay at 2.5mg until the lump subsides. The problem with attacking it on cycle is you seriously hinder your ability to gain muscle and train at the intensity you'd like due to dry joints. Just my .02c

 

[TheSwanks]

First off bro all caught up. Looks like you've got yourself a lot of knowledge already in this thread.
Secondly damn bro that is one super cute daughter! That sad face is adorable!
Thirdly in the hopefully unlikely case you do develop gyno I would run the letro gyno reversal a bit differently. If you can find the sweet spot dosage wise to keep it at bay while on cycle I would attack it post pct. taper your dose up like
Day1 .5mg
Day 2 1mg
Day 3 1.5mg etc etc up to 2.5mg ten continue at that dose until the lump subsides then taper back down and switch to a suicidal AI then discontinue. Have seen this protocol work first hand on numerous occasions. If you wanted to attack it on cycle swanks advice would probably work although I'd want to stay at 2.5mg until the lump subsides. The problem with attacking it on cycle is you seriously hinder your ability to gain muscle and train at the intensity you'd like due to dry joints. Just my .02c

Hes right it does kill your gains, but I personally wouldn't want to let it stick around until pct. But its a preference thing

 

[Lukef2000]

Hes right it does kill your gains, but I personally wouldn't want to let it stick around until pct. But its a preference thing

Either way if he does get gyno letro will only shrink it, the only way to actually eliminate it is via surgery. If he can fin the sweet spot to keep it from getting any worse while ON he has all the time in the world between cycles to do a reversal.
Funny I don't have push through notifications turned on yet i just got this via push through.... Strange.

 

[1ifeblood]

First off bro all caught up. Looks like you've got yourself a lot of knowledge already in this thread.
Secondly damn bro that is one super cute daughter! That sad face is adorable!
Thirdly in the hopefully unlikely case you do develop gyno I would run the letro gyno reversal a bit differently. If you can find the sweet spot dosage wise to keep it at bay while on cycle I would attack it post pct. taper your dose up like
Day1 .5mg
Day 2 1mg
Day 3 1.5mg etc etc up to 2.5mg ten continue at that dose until the lump subsides then taper back down and switch to a suicidal AI then discontinue. Have seen this protocol work first hand on numerous occasions. If you wanted to attack it on cycle swanks advice would probably work although I'd want to stay at 2.5mg until the lump subsides. The problem with attacking it on cycle is you seriously hinder your ability to gain muscle and train at the intensity you'd like due to dry joints. Just my .02c

Hes right it does kill your gains, but I personally wouldn't want to let it stick around until pct. But its a preference thing

There's certainly nothing wrong with having a couple options available. Here's to hoping I never have to use either of them!

 

[TheSwanks]

Either way if he does get gyno letro will only shrink it, the only way to actually eliminate it is via surgery. If he can fin the sweet spot to keep it from getting any worse while ON he has all the time in the world between cycles to do a reversal.
Funny I don't have push through notifications turned on yet i just got this via push through.... Strange.

Its because its me. Lol

 

[1ifeblood]

First off bro all caught up.

Glad to have you here big guy! I'm sure your brain is still lingering on the honeymoon, but your input is definitely valuable!

 

[Lukef2000]

There's certainly nothing wrong with having a couple options available. Here's to hoping I never have to use either of them!

Yes well here's hoping man!

Its because its me. Lol

Could insert something super ghey here but I won't lol

Glad to have you here big guy! I'm sure your brain is still lingering on the honeymoon, but your input is definitely valuable!

Wouldn't miss it bro. Ill always be here to offer my input.... And to make the occasionally suspiciously ghey comment

 

[iparatroop]

Either way if he does get gyno letro will only shrink it, the only way to actually eliminate it is via surgery. If he can fin the sweet spot to keep it from getting any worse while ON he has all the time in the world between cycles to do a reversal.
Funny I don't have push through notifications turned on yet i just got this via push through.... Strange.

SERM on cycle stops gyno, no?
20mg nolva ed takes away the worry.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

exemestane is purrfekt AI to run while on cycle
there is no better choice, imho

 

[1ifeblood]

exemestane is purrfekt AI to run while on cycle
there is no better choice, imho

I KNOW, I really wanted to use it!

 

[1ifeblood]

...And to make the occasionally suspiciously ghey comment

I'd have it no other way.

 

[iparatroop]

I'd blow no other gay.

Color me jealous.

 

[MrKleen73]

Color me jealous.

I think someone else already colored on you. Exem is the shiz from what I hear but for shrinking lumps letro is king, it just makes you feel like poopoo!

 

[iparatroop]

I think someone else already colored on you. Exem is the shiz from what I hear but for shrinking lumps letro is king, it just makes you feel like poopoo!

I had some lumps. My endo prescribed nolva@20mg/ED. My lumps were gone in about three weeks, and I didn't feel like poopoo.

 

[TheSwanks]

I had some lumps. My endo prescribed nolva@20mg/ED. My lumps were gone in about three weeks, and I didn't feel like poopoo.

Hrrrmmmmm...

Noted for later research. If that's truly effective I'd much rather that route than letro

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice! I know that worked pretty well for LTL too. So many different ways to skin a cat!

 

[iparatroop]

Hrrrmmmmm...

Noted for later research. If that's truly effective I'd much rather that route than letro

It's absolutely effective. And remember, I'm on TRT. My personal choice would be to go with a SERM rather than an AI. Once your estrogen levels get all screwy, it's much harder to fix by finding the appropriate dosage of whatever you're using as a knee-jerk reaction to combat your symptoms. If gyno is an issue, or you foresee it becoming one, a SERM seems more appropriate. I'd rather keep E at bay than crush it and feel like a bag of ass. That's just my .02 though.

 

[1ifeblood]

Color me jealous.

But you're not gay...soooo...

 

[iparatroop]

But you're not gay...soooo...

Unless the day ends in "Y".

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Unless the day ends in "Y".

but wait - that would be.........
owe hay nao eye sea watt ewe didd they're

 

[1ifeblood]

but wait - that would be.........
owe hay nao eye sea watt ewe didd they're

First I was like whaaaa? Then I was like ohhhhh!

 

[1ifeblood]

It's absolutely effective. And remember, I'm on TRT. My personal choice would be to go with a SERM rather than an AI. Once your estrogen levels get all screwy, it's much harder to fix by finding the appropriate dosage of whatever you're using as a knee-jerk reaction to combat your symptoms. If gyno is an issue, or you foresee it becoming one, a SERM seems more appropriate. I'd rather keep E at bay than crush it and feel like a bag of ass. That's just my .02 though.

Seems like it could be a good way to at least stop the gyno from progressing while finishing the cycle like Luke said and blast it with letro if the nolva hasn't fixed it.

 

[MANotaur]

in this!! Sorry im late bro ive been soo busy! ill be on logging later tonight! not gonna comment on your stack..looks like you got some solid advice! lookin foward to seein you get huge...er...??

 

[1ifeblood]

in this!! Sorry im late bro ive been soo busy! ill be on logging later tonight! not gonna comment on your stack..looks like you got some solid advice! lookin foward to seein you get huge...er...??

SWEET!

 

[Lukef2000]

Hrrrmmmmm...

Noted for later research. If that's truly effective I'd much rather that route than letro

Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!

 

[MANotaur]

Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!

Ralox combined with letro/ or exemestane is by far the most effective treatment for gyno from the research ive read.

Reason being is ralox is spefic to breast tissue while limiting systemic effects and action in peripheral tissues. Hay que leer....

 

[MANotaur]

And dude 1life you need to get i.to my log too....so do all you other bozos!!

Its just a log under the training section.


-:hijack over:-

 

[Montego1]

Wtf da noods!?

 

[MANotaur]

Wtf da noods!?

Monte not everybody has the luxery of being a noodista like you...

I for one dont wanna take pics of myself with handsome- davidian statue of a body of yours floatin around the innerwebz!!

 

[1ifeblood]

And dude 1life you need to get i.to my log too....so do all you other bozos!!

Its just a log under the training section.

-:hijack over:-

I'm totally there my man!

 

[1ifeblood]

Wtf da noods!?

Hey big dog, glad you could make it to my little circle jerk!

And noodz ARE coming...I promise! I just need to find the right lighting first. :-D

 

[1ifeblood]

Nolva is definitely another route as it specifically targets breast tissue growth. Another route is raloxifene, so many options its really down to personal preference. IMO Nolva is a good option on cycle to prevent it from getting worse but I'm not sure how you'd go reversing it when you've got so much test / estrogen in your system.
Btw when we getting starting nudes? Need some for my spank bank... Wait what?!

I guess I didn't realize nolva targeted breast tissue. I thought it just blocked estro from binding to receptors leaving it to build up in your system. Definitely something I'm gonna look into though.

 

[LiveToLift]

Nice! I know that worked pretty well for LTL too. So many different ways to skin a cat!

Yes for sure it did. Zapped it with 40 mg Nolva for a few days and tapered to 10-20mg daily for rest of cycle. That cycle I still managed to add 15+ lbs and maintain while running nolva for last 2 months. Didn't ruin any gains.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

yes nice topic of discussion here
tho everyone seems to have differing opinions on what to use for gyno control while on cycle (always has been/always will be), and the effects of such on said cycle, I am pretty definitive and set in my own my own personal views
a pretty good summation of my views can be found in this nice excerpt, I will leave here for educational purposes, if you wish to see supporting information of what I am saying:

Nolvadex

(Tamoxifen Citrate)

Nolvadex is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) comprised of the active drug Tamoxifen first created by Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI.) Originally developed to provide a “Morning After” effect this soon proved to be useless. However, soon after it was discovered the medication had a much more valuable purpose in treating breast cancer; however, as is common among many medications, especially those of a testosterone or estrogenic nature other uses have been found and they have found a welcomed home in the performance enhancing world. While Nolvadex is not a steroid in any shape form or fashion its use in conjunction with anabolic steroids has proven to be invaluable.

Nolvadex 101:

Nolvadex is a member of the SERM class of drugs with very similar properties to Clomiphene Citrate. An antagonist of the estrogen receptors by-which it binds itself preventing active estrogen from binding in its place. A common mistake is to classify Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen medication in the same light as other SERM’s such as Arimidex or Letrozole; this is however incorrect. Anti-Estrogen SERM’s such as aromatase inhibitors, which are the from family of SERM’s Arimidex and Letrozole belong to actually reduce the flow of estrogen in the body; Nolvadex does not possess this trait, it merely blocks the hormone from action. Estrogen is a very important hormone for a properly functioning endocrine system as it greatly aids in immune efficiency, however, it can be often times the enemy when levels become too high and very problematic in anabolic androgenic steroid users.

While aiding in blocking estrogen Nolvadex also possess other important traits. Nolva, as it is commonly referred has been shown to greatly aid in increasing both Luteinizing Hormones (LH) as well as total testosterone production. This is important because without LH there is no testosterone production and when we use anabolic steroids our natural testosterone production is more often than not non-existent. As you can see Nolvadex carries with it two distinct functions and purposes as it pertains to the anabolic steroid user, both during cycle and after cycle during what is known as the post cycle therapy (PCT) period.

The Benefits of Nolvadex:

As there are two distinct periods in-which a steroid user may use Nolvadex the purpose will determine the benefits in-which one wishes to obtain. While its mode of action by its very nature is the same regardless of the time in-which it is used the effects of use surround distinct purposes one from the other.

The most common use of Nolvadex for an anabolic steroid user is during PCT. When we use anabolic androgenic steroids our natural testosterone production comes to a halt, regardless if our cycle was comprised of exogenous testosterone or not and remedy must necessarily be applied. It is for this reason it is imperative most base their cycles around testosterone but once the cycle is complete we must do all we can to bring natural production back to its natural state if we are to maintain any of the gains made while on cycle as well as maintain proper and adequate overall health. As Nolvadex has been shown to greatly increase natural testosterone production it only makes sense to supplement with it after a steroid cycle is complete. While a PCT plan will generally last 3-4 weeks this is not enough to bring your levels back to normal; however, it will greatly speed the process up.

Another benefit to Nolvadex use as it pertains to the anabolic steroid user is while on cycle, while using anabolic androgenic steroids. Many anabolic steroids bring about strong estrogenic related side-effects, most notably Gynecomastia (male breast enlargement) or “Gyno” as it is commonly known. As many steroids convert to estrogen, thereby increasing estrogen in the body, once this occurs Gyno may be a problem. However, as Nolvadex can block estrogen from binding we can greatly improve our chances and often stave of Gyno. It is important to note, such side-effects like Gynecomastia can occur even with Nolva use in those who are more sensitive and if this is the case only an aromatase inhibitor such as Letrozole or Arimidex will be your saving grace.

The Side-Effects of Nolvadex:

Like all medications across the board Nolvadex does carry with it the potential for negative side-effects; however, the probability of such adverse effects remains very low. As discussed, some estrogen action is necessary in the body and it could be possible to limit this action when too much Nolvadex is being used; however, this is still very unlikely. There have also been some reports of negative actions regarding metabolic function but these appear to be extremely rare with little evidence to support a strong claim.

As it pertains more directly to anabolic steroid users, as some estrogenic action is imperative to health, when it comes to growth some estrogen can be beneficial. Some steroid users report less growth when Nolvadex is used during a cycle as compared to Nolvadex free cycles; however, again, the evidence is inconclusive.

Nolvadex and Clomid:

For all intense purpose Nolvadex and Clomid are identical in almost every way; if you cannot obtain Nolva, Clomid is fine in its place or vice-versa. However, on a milligram for milligram basis Nolvadex is far more powerful; to reap the benefits of 10mg of Nolva you would need to supplement with approximately 75-100mg of Clomid. However, both medications are commonly found and cheaply and highly available as well as rarely counterfeited in any way.

Nolvadex Cycles & Doses:

Most anabolic steroid users will find a 10mg dose of Nolvadex every day while on cycle to greatly aid in the prevention of estrogenic related side-effects. While some may indeed need 20mg every day, in most cases if 10mg won’t get the job done stronger aromatase inhibitors are going to be your best bet. However, regardless of the total dose, as you can see from the side-effects discussed they are generally of very little concern and the SERM can be safely used the entire duration of the cycle.

As it pertains to Nolva’s most optimal time of use, PCT the dosing will be much higher than if used during the actual cycle itself. Those who use Nolvadex for PCT will generally be best served with a dosing of 40mg every day for approximately 2 weeks followed by 2 weeks of Nolva at a 20mg per day dose. Those who wish to get the most out of their PCT will supplement with hCG before Nolvadex use begins; hCG use will begin after the steroid cycle and continue for 10 days to be followed by Nolva therapy.

When you start your Nolvadex use for PCT will depend on the anabolic steroids you used at the end of your cycle. If your cycle ends with all short ester based steroids PCT can start almost immediately; generally 2-3 days after your last steroid administration, beginning with hCG first followed by Nolva or if no hCG is used Nolvadex may start approximately 5-7 days after the cycles end. For those who end their cycles with long ester based anabolic steroids, a waiting period will necessarily follow of at least 2-3 weeks after the final injection of anabolic steroids. hCG use may begin approximately 10 days after the final injection but Nolva will necessarily wait until the appropriate time.

note that, while the phenomenon of reducing/eliminating estrogen while on cycle is not definitively stated to be certain to reduce the steroid efficacy, it is however, noted that this may indeed be an occurrence, and that generally stance on the issue is one certainly does not want to have total elimination of estrogen while on a cycle due to reduction of potential overall gains/potential detriment to overall health - I also happen to agree with this, to the extent it is worried about here

conversely, some info on exemestane:

Aromasin (exemestane) is a steroid-al AI - an irreversible aromatase inhibitor ... great for controlling estrogen "during cycle" and "PCT" ...

But, what else does it do ???
Good reading....

ABSTRACT FROM JOURNAL OF CLINICAL ENDOCRONOLOGY AND METABOLISM

Suppression of estrogen, via estrogen receptor or aromatase blockade, is being investigated in the treatment of different conditions. Exemestane (Aromasin) is a potent and selective irreversible aromatase inhibitor. To characterize its suppression of estrogen and its pharmacokinetic (PK) properties in males, healthy eugonadal subjects were recruited. In a cross-over study, 12 were randomly assigned to 25 and 50 mg exemestane daily, orally, for 10 d with a 14-d washout period. Blood was withdrawn before and 24 h after the last dose of each treatment period. A PK study was performed (n = 10) using a 25-mg dose.

RESULTS :

The 25- and 50-mg doses of daily exemestane had comparable effects in suppressing circulating estrogen concentrations, with 38 ± 24% (mean ± SD; P = 0.002 vs. baseline) and 32 ± 29% (P = 0.008) decreases in estradiol concentrations, 71 ± 12% (P < 0.0001) and 74 ± 12% (P < 0.0001) decreases in estrone concentrations, and 45 ± 27% (P = 0.004) and 51 ± 20% (P = 0.02)

BUT THERE'S MORE

There was an increase in circulating testosterone concentrations after both 25 mg (60 ± 58%; P = 0.001) and 50 mg (56 ± 48%; P = 0.003) exemestane. Androstenedione concentrations were increased as well after 25 mg (32 ± 36%; P = 0.004) and 50 mg (47 ± 59%; P = 0.052) exemestane, respectively (Fig. 1Go and Table 2Go).

SHBG concentrations were decreased by 21 ± 7% (P = 0.0003) and 19 ± 39% (P = 0.18) at 25 and 50 mg exemestane, respectively.

Free testosterone concentrations were increased by 117 ± 74% (P = 0.0001) and 154 ± 95% (P < 0.0001) at both doses, due to the decrease in SHBG and the increase in total testosterone.

THE ICING ON THE CAKE !

There were no changes in circulating serum triglycerides, cholesterol, or LDL or HDL cholesterol concentrations with either dose of exemestane.

testosterone levels are actually increased with exemestane use! total win

 

[MANotaur]

^^KABOOM!!!!! STUDY BOMB!!!^^

thats the reason ill only use exemestane!!

 

[iparatroop]

Exemestane, in that study seems as though it would be the end all answer. Unfortunately, that study lacks a couple of key pieces of information that would be useful to an individual on an AAS cycle. I will pose a couple of questions that could maybe be answered here for the better understanding of both myself, and other readers.

1. Q: Is T/E ratio not more important than a simple ideal E#

We've all heard of the guys who get panels run mid-cycle and have an elevated E level (some I've seen as high as +300 and the individual in question had no sides associable to high E). While these numbers may seem outlandish, is T/E ratio not seemingly more important than simply keeping E as low as possible? 29 seems to be a good E# for an individual with a normal T level, yet someone running 500mg/EW has a T level somewhere closer to 3K.

2. Q: What are the physiological and psychologic effects of having an E level that is too low?

This answer is pretty simple (in many cases). Low E can wreak havoc on the body and mind. Loss of libido-check, achy, dry and painful joints-check, emotional instability-check, and the list goes on.

3. Q: Will exemestane increase overall testosterone production in an individual running 500mg/EW of a long ester (such as cypionate or enanthate), and will that effect even be as pronounced as it would in an individual running nothing?

I pose this question because at that level of use, I see the T producing effect of said substance to be negligible, at best. Now if we're talking about a guy who doesn't already have ~3K ng/dl of T sloshing around in his veins, then I can see the need/desire for it and why this particular AI would be appealing. But again I defer to the T/E ratio, which I think can be argued as more important than a simple number to shoot for when on cycle.

4. Q: Is it not harder to get E numbers back UP to a tolerable level after they have already been "crushed" than it is to bring them DOWN to tolerable levels by using a suicidal inhibitor/inhibitor?

This is why I bring nolvadex/tamoxifen to the argument. If the concern is gyno, and not an overall E figure, then this seems like a no brainer. Not nolva, in particular, but the family of drugs known as SERMs. These target breast tissue pretty specifically without wiping out the overall level of E in the body. Everyone (well maybe not everyone, but most experienced users) knows that having E in your system is arguably just as important as having T, when the RATIO is correct.

I pose these questions not to be a jackass, or to dismiss the value of SAI/AI, but maybe to shed more light on the subject, and to help anyone else who may have no fcuking clue as to what any of this stuff really does.

Dave

 

[snagencyV2.0]

nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
just my .02

 

[1ifeblood]

nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
just my .02

Oh, Hey Snags..?

 

[iparatroop]

nice info david, whether I agree with all of your points personally is beside point

with that in mind: if it is your preference to use SERM, then roll with torem (best SERM for issue you speak of), or ralox
I have no use for nolva really, when there are other options for gyno on cycle, than nolva
in fact - would ONLY use nolva for very specific purposes, and still not sure I would use in these as (just mentioned) there are I feel better options
I think nolva is the most commonly overused, abused, and misunderstood SERM out there, and one of those nasty little "outdated" concepts that simply refuse to go away
just my .02

Yep, nolva not necessarily the best SERM out there. Haven't used torem for gyno specifically but it's good stuff too.
We don't have to agree on everything, but one thing I know we agree on is that this log is gonna be fun in a real ghey kind of way.