1-Andro Rde

[kc777]

Can someone show me supplement facts for 1-Andro Rde? It's not listed on the website. Thanks!

 

[kc777]

Scratch that, found it

 

[kc777]

What is best to stack with 1-Andro?

Is 1-Andro 5a reduced? I know it cannot convert to estrogen, but is this just because it converts to 1-Test? I ask because I want to run this being a safe alternative to harsh methyls, but I have pubertal gyno that is sensitive to aromatizing compounds or anything with a high ER binding affinity.

I was thinking of stacking with AndroHard but I don't want to double up on DHT. I like the idea of 1-Andro because of it's bulking abilities without the estrogenic behavior seen in most bulking agents.

Thanks and I appreciate all feedback!

 

[quigs]

What is best to stack with 1-Andro?

Is 1-Andro 5a reduced? I know it cannot convert to estrogen, but is this just because it converts to 1-Test? I ask because I want to run this being a safe alternative to harsh methyls, but I have pubertal gyno that is sensitive to aromatizing compounds or anything with a high ER binding affinity.

I was thinking of stacking with AndroHard but I don't want to double up on DHT. I like the idea of 1-Andro because of it's bulking abilities without the estrogenic behavior seen in most bulking agents.

Thanks and I appreciate all feedback!

Try it solo. If you're prone to gyno you probably want to keep it as simple as possible. If you're using multiple compounds and your gyno is exacerbated you won't know which is causing the problem. You've made a good choice with 1-andro, and you don't need to stack to see great results with the stuff. Stick with it.

 

[kc777]

Try it solo. If you're prone to gyno you probably want to keep it as simple as possible. If you're using multiple compounds and your gyno is exacerbated you won't know which is causing the problem. You've made a good choice with 1-andro, and you don't need to stack to see great results with the stuff. Stick with it.

This sounds good but what about answering my questions about this compound

 

[CopyCat]

This sounds good but what about answering my questions about this compound

Is the 2nd paragraph what you are looking for?

http://www.advancedmusclescience.com/research-and-articles/1-androsterone-dshea-information/

Author: Proprietary Wellness LLC

We contend that 1-dehydroepiandrosterone (1-DHEA) is legal to sell under US law as a dietary supplement and that is it totally naturally occurring and in the food supply as an article used for food, where that article has not been chemically altered. It is a metabolite of naturally occurring products in addition to being in the food supply as an article used for food itself. It is a naturally occurring dietary ingredient and a metabolite of existing known dietary ingredients. It is present in the food supply as food in bovine tissue, via the natural conversion process of 1-Androstenediol which was found endogenously in pork tissue (1) and also as a metabolite of human metabolism(10).

5alpha-androst-1-ene-3beta,17beta-diol has been shown in the literature to naturally occur in Pig adipose tissue and was widely accepted to be a dietary substance (1). Additionally, 1-DHEA is a natural metabolite of 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione via the 5aReductase enzyme. 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione has been proven in countless papers to appear naturally in bovine tissue and has been on the US market since 2001 as a dietary supplement. Several papers have confirmed the endogenous production of boldenone and boldione in mammals with numerous theories of how the animal creates this hormone (16,17) 17a-Boldenone was found in untreated animals further confirming the presence of endogenous 1,4 androstadienes (17). This is consistent with the findings of Velle, that ruminants excrete most of their steroidal agents into the feces and in the 17a configuration(18). This all supports the conclusion that cattle and pigs can produce androstadiene steroids from a variety of sources (19). Via 5aReductase, and 3b-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, both plentiful in the bodies of pigs and cattle, 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione can be converted to 1-DHEA in the body of both the bovine and pig. The human body has also been shown to produce 1-ene hormones from exogenous sources such as DHEA supplementation(15). As shown, exogenous hormone administration can yield 1-ENE metabolites (14) which further supports the position that 1-ene hormones are byproducts of mammalian metabolism of which 1-DHEA is included.

According to DSHEA, a metabolite of a dietary ingredient is therefore allowed under DHSEA regulations and tissue concentrations and extracts are and have been used for thousands of years to promote health and vitality along with extractions of food born supplements. 1-ene hormones have been shown to occur in humans, pigs and other species and 1-DHEA is a natural metabolite of those hormones(1,9,10,11,12,13,14,21). Specifically 1-DHEA is a metabolite of 5alpha-androst-1-ene-3beta,17beta-diol by virtue of the action of 17-beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase which has been shown to be present in pigs (2,3) and also a metabolite of 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione via 5aReductase and 3a/b hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase. This product is not intended to treat or cure any disease, but it can be used to augment hormone levels in men wishing to increase their levels. Both beef and pig flesh are articles that are sold as food and are in the food supply. Recently their hormone levels have been shown to influence excretion ratios of natural hormones in humans(15) showing potential activity as a nutritional supplement.

Structure



Routes of Metabolic Formation




This section explains the conversion process that occurs in mammals via Hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenases to verify that indeed 1-Androstenediol can convert into 1-DehydroEpiAndrosterone (better known as 1-DHEA). Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases are known to be bi-directional and this paper shows just one example (which exactly parallels the 1-ene system). This process is known to happen in isomers and utilizing the same enzymatic systems in humans and pigs to bi-directionally convert adrenal steroids to active androgens via this pathway:



This bi-directional nature of 17bHSD type 4 can be verified in the attached paper from which this excerpt was taken(20).

"The activity of 17b-HSD is in fact responsible for the interconversion of 17-ketosteroids (e.g., dehydroepiandrosterone, androstenedione, and estrone) with the corresponding 17b-hydroxysteroids (e.g., androst-5-ene-313,17b-diol, testosterone, and 17b-estradiol). The reduction step catalyzed by the various 17b-HSDs is thus essential for the formation of the active estrogens, 17b-estradiol (E2) and androst-ene-3b,17b-diol (5-diol), as well as for the biosynthesis of the active androgen testosterone, and the oxidative reaction catalyzed by other 17b-HSDs inactivates the potent sex steroids into compounds having no or low biological activity. 17b-HSD is thus the key enzyme involved in the development, growth, and function of all reproductive tissues in both males and females."

"and type 4, 17b-HSD mainly degrades 17b-estradiol into estrone and androst-5-ene-3b, 17b-diol into dehydroepiandrosterone."

"The human type 4 17b-HSD is a 736-amino acid protein of MW 80 kDa that shares 84% identity with the corresponding porcine enzyme and transforms E2 into El and 5-diol into DHEA."

The presence of a precursor to 1-DHEA in porcine tissues as well as the necessary metabolic enzyme systems protects 1-DHEA as a nutritional supplement. '

Safety of the ingredient

Using 5-DHEA as a model, we expect the exogenous use of 1-DHEA to be extremely safe, since 1-DHEA would have many improvements in safety over standard 5-DHEA which can be found at thousands of nutrition stores across the country. 5-DHEA has a long history of use in healthy and dieased humans and has been shown to be safe in doses up to 200 mg per day for 24 weeks (22) and 2250 mg for 16 weeks (23) with minimal side effects. The side effects that are encountered are due, in large part to the formation of estrogen and potent 5-alpha reduced metabolites (24,22). DHEA has been shown in the literature to convert via the aromatase enzyme to estrogens (25) which would not happen with the 1-DHEA isomer, vastly increasing it's safety profile.

References
McGregor SJ, Erickson AJ. Identification of 5alpha-androst-1-ene-3beta,17beta-diol in the fat of Sus scrofa L.: a "nutritional supplement" not found previously in the food supply. J Nat Prod. 2003 Sep;66(9):1147-8.
Ohno S, Nakajima Y, Nakajin S. Triphenyltin and Tributyltin inhibit pig testicular 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase activity and suppress testicular testosterone biosynthesis. Steroids. 2005 Aug;70(9):645-51.
Chen G, Bourneuf E, Marklund S, Zamaratskaia G, Madej A, Lundström K. Gene expression of 3beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase in relation to androstenone, testosterone, and estrone sulphate in gonadally intact male and castrated pigs. J Anim Sci. 2007 Oct;85(10):2457-63.
Chang DM, Lan JL, Lin HY, Luo SF. Dehydroepiandrosterone treatment of women with mild-to-moderate systemic lupus erythematosus: a multicenter randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Arthritis Rheum. Nov;46(11):2924-7, 2002
Dyner TS, Lang W, Geaga J, Golub A, Stites D, Winger E, Galmarini M, Masterson J, Jacobson MA. An open-label dose-escalation trial of oral dehydroepiandrosterone tolerance and pharmacokinetics in patients with HIV disease. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. May;6(5):459-65, 1993
Gilad S, Chayen R, Tordjman K, Kisch E, Stern N. Assessment of 5 alpha-reductase activity in hirsute women: comparison of serum androstanediol glucuronide with urinary androsterone and aetiocholanolone excretion. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). Apr;40(4):459-64, 1994
Acacio BD, Stanczyk FZ, Mullin P, Saadat P, Jafarian N, Sokol RZ. Pharmacokinetics of dehydroepiandrosterone and its metabolites after long-term daily oral administration to healthy young men. Fertil Steril. Mar;81(3):595-604, 2004
Longcope C, Bourget C, Flood C. The production and aromatization of dehydroepiandrosterone in post-menopausal women. Maturitas. Dec;4(4):325-32, 1982
Counsel et al., "Anabolic Agents. Derivatives of 5alpha-Androst-1-ene", J. Org. Chem., 27 (1962), 248-251
Galletti and Gardi, "Metabolism of 1-Dehydroandrostanes in Man", J Steroid Biochem, 3 (1972), 933-936
Langecker, "Beziehungen Zwischen Substitution im Ring A und Abbau im Stoffwechsel bei Verwandten des Testosterons", Acta Endocrin, 41 (1962), 494-506
Lieberman et al., J. Biol. Chem, 182 (1950), 299
Galletti and Gardi, "Metabolism of 1-Dehydroandrostanes in Man", J Steroid Biochem, 3 (1972), 933-936
Kohler M, Parr MK, Opfermann G Metabolism of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione and 4-hydroxytestosterone: Mass spectrometric identification of urinary metabolites. Institute of Biochemistry, German Sport University of Cologne, Carl-Diem-Weg 6, 50933 Cologne, Germany. [email protected]
Le Bizec B, Gaudin I, Monteau F, Andre F, Impens S, De Wasch K, De Brabander H Consequence of boar edible tissue consumption on urinary profiles of nandrolone metabolites. I. Mass spectrometric detection and quantification of 19-norandrosterone and 19-noretiocholanolone in human urine. Rapid Commun Mass Spectrom. 2000;14(12):1058-65.
De Brabander, H. F., S. Poelmans, R. Schilt, R. W. Stephanyl, B. Le Bizec, R. Draisci, S. S. Sterk, L. A. van Glink, D. Courtheyn, N. van Hook, A. Macri, K. De Wasch (2004) Presence and metabolism of the anabolic steroid boldenone in various animal species: A review. Food Additives and Contaminants 21(6):515-525.
Le Bizec, B, F. Courant, I. Gaudin, E. Bichon, B. Destrez, R. Schildt, R. Draisci, F. Monteau, F. Andre (2006) Criteria to distingush between natural situations and illegal use of boldenone, boldenone esters and boldione in cattle 1. Metabolite profiles of boldenone, boldenone esters and boldione in cattle urine. Steroids 71:1078-1087.
1.Velle W. Endogenous anabolic agents in farm animals. Environ Qual Saf Suppl. 1976;(5):159-70.
Poelmans S, De Wasch K, Noppe H, Van Hoof N, Van Cruchten S, Le Bizec B, Deceuninck Y, Sterk S, Van Rossum HJ, Hoffman MK, De Brabander HF. Food Addit Contam. 2005 Sep;22(9):808-15. Links Endogenous occurrence of some anabolic steroids in swine matrices.
Fernand Labrie, Van Luu-The, Sheng-Xiang Lin, Claude Labrie, Jacques Simard, Roch Breton, and Alain BrlangerMRC Group in Molecular Endocrinology, CHUL Research Center and Laval University, Ste-Foy, QuObec, Canada The key role of 17b -hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases in sex steroid biology
Lieberman Seymore, Fukushima David, Sloan Kettering Institute For Cancer Research, August 29, 1949 Studies In Steroid Metabolism: Identification and Characterization of Ketosteroids Isolated From Urine of Healthy and Diseased Persons
Chang DM, Lan JL, Lin HY, Luo SF. Dehydroepiandrosterone treatment of women with mild-to-moderate systemic lupus erythematosus: a multicenter randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Arthritis Rheum. Nov;46(11):2924-7, 2002
Dyner TS, Lang W, Geaga J, Golub A, Stites D, Winger E, Galmarini M, Masterson J, Jacobson MA. An open-label dose-escalation trial of oral dehydroepiandrosterone tolerance and pharmacokinetics in patients with HIV disease. J Acquir Immune Defic Syndr. May;6(5):459-65, 1993
Gilad S, Chayen R, Tordjman K, Kisch E, Stern N. Assessment of 5 alpha-reductase activity in hirsute women: comparison of serum androstanediol glucuronide with urinary androsterone and aetiocholanolone excretion. Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). Apr;40(4):459-64, 1994
Longcope C, Bourget C, Flood C. The production and aromatization of dehydroepiandrosterone in post-menopausal women. Maturitas. Dec;4(4):325-

 

[kc777]

5alpha-androst-1-ene-3beta,17beta-diol has been shown in the literature to naturally occur in Pig adipose tissue and was widely accepted to be a dietary substance (1). Additionally, 1-DHEA is a natural metabolite of 1,4 Androstadiene-3,17-dione via the 5aReductase enzyme.Dec;4(4):325-

Yes, I think anyway. Help me understand this: 1-Andro is not 5a reduced, but is metabolized by 5a reduced hormones?

Sorry, not trying to be annoying, just want to have a solid grasp on this as this product really has my attention. Thanks for the reply! Great info!

 

[quigs]

This sounds good but what about answering my questions about this compound

Did not realize it was a question, thought you were making a statement when I first read. It is 5-AR and does not convert to estrogen.

 

[quigs]

Yes, I think anyway. Help me understand this: 1-Andro is not 5a reduced, but is metabolized by 5a reduced hormones?

Sorry, not trying to be annoying, just want to have a solid grasp on this as this product really has my attention. Thanks for the reply! Great info!

I don't understand your bolded question...5 alpha reductase is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of steroid hormones. Nothing is metabolized by 5 alpha reduced hormones, but 5 alpha reduced hormones are metabolized.

 

[kc777]

I don't understand your bolded question...5 alpha reductase is an enzyme involved in the metabolism of steroid hormones. Nothing is metabolized by 5 alpha reduced hormones, but 5 alpha reduced hormones are metabolized.

Well I guess my question is whether or not 1-Andro is a 5 alpha reduced hormone.

I'm sorry, I'm still learning all this stuff.

Like EPI is a DHT derivative, but is not 5 alpha reduced. So I'm just trying to understand 1-Andro... I know it converts to 1-Test and cannot aromatize, but is it anti estrogenic like true DHT?

Sorry again, just trying to learn this stuff. Thanks for helping!

 

[CopyCat]

1-andro isn't actually anti estrogen it just doesn't convert directly to estrogen.

 

[quigs]

w

Well I guess my question is whether or not 1-Andro is a 5 alpha reduced hormone.

I'm sorry, I'm still learning all this stuff.

Like EPI is a DHT derivative, but is not 5 alpha reduced. So I'm just trying to understand 1-Andro... I know it converts to 1-Test and cannot aromatize, but is it anti estrogenic like true DHT?

Sorry again, just trying to learn this stuff. Thanks for helping!

1-andro isn't actually anti estrogen it just doesn't convert directly to estrogen.

Exactly. Most of the DHT related compounds are not anti-estrogen in nature. They get this effect more due to the fact that they shut down natural testosterone production due to HTPA supression. With low testosterone, there is less potential to create estrogen (as testosterone is a "prohormone" to estrogen)...and the 5-a-reduced compounds do not convert to estrogen.

Hope this makes some sense.

 

[kc777]

Yes actually that helps a lot. I also found a really good article explaining the 5 alpha reductase enzyme and I was way off! Lol. I have a decent grasp now. Thanks guys!

One last thing, how is lethargy with 1-Andro?

 

[CopyCat]

Yes actually that helps a lot. I also found a really good article explaining the 5 alpha reductase enzyme and I was way off! Lol. I have a decent grasp now. Thanks guys!

One last thing, how is lethargy with 1-Andro?

Depends on the individual. Personnaly I have never experienced lethargy on any of our stuff in any combination of. Some do though. I don't think people report it to be terribly bad and often the addition of 4-ad clears it right up.