Havoc cycle impressions journal

[flw]

I'm on day 8 of Havoc, day one was 10 mg and days 2 to present have been 20 mg. so far I'm not feeling anything definitive, I might have had a little lethargy and it might be helping my workouts a little but I'm also extra determined and the placebo effect can be strong.
This is my first cycle and I just expected more. I do remember that I read that Havoc week 2 starts to be fun and the 30 and 40 mg is really cool but I expected to feel something definitive by this time and I am starting week 2.
I was also expecting joint pain which is not really noticeable yet either.

What do you all think?

PS. I am going to keep posting my impressions to this thread, its not going to be a log but I will post my impressions.

 

[delsolrob]

why would you expect joint pain already?

 

[Glynn50]

I noticed the biggest difference when i bumped up to 40mg, after 2days at 40mg i got that "on" feeling, especially when taking 20mg an hour before the gym. I felt slightly more lethargic but nothing i couldnt cope with, and nothing on the lethargy caused by superdrol at 30mg ed.
I wouldnt go more than 40mg unless your a pretty big guy.

 

[maynehood171]

...it'll happen...just continue on as is...

 

[flw]

no reason really, I just expected that to be one of the first things I'd notice, I've had quite a few broken bones and am prone to joint pain.

why would you expect joint pain already?

 

[delsolrob]

from my understanding, joint pain usually occurs when estrogen is suppressed (most often during PCT).

whenever your increasing your muscle strength at a rapid rate you do have to worry about connective tissue though (tendons, etc)...muscle gains strength faster than the connective tissue does. this is one of the reasons that some people take cissus while ON.

 

[flw]

Will do, thanks.

...it'll happen...just continue on as is...

 

[flw]

I actually just ordered some cissus.

from my understanding, joint pain usually occurs when estrogen is suppressed (most often during PCT).

whenever your increasing your muscle strength at a rapid rate you do have to worry about connective tissue though (tendons, etc)...muscle gains strength faster than the connective tissue does. this is one of the reasons that some people take cissus while ON.

 

[flw]

pumps are getting better, skin seemed thinner and more transparent.

 

[Trauma1]

You're only on day 8, give the compound time to kick in. Make sure your diet is also in check to maximize your gains.

 

[flw]

things are already getting better every day. Diet is good too.
Thanks.

You're only on day 8, give the compound time to kick in. Make sure your diet is also in check to maximize your gains.

 

[flw]

I had a horible workout last night, did legs and just couldn't get any weight up. Energy was nonexistant. I got 10 hours of sleep last night, feeling good now and looking foward to back later today, gonna try and go big on deads!

 

[flw]

I've had a great arms day and a great back day in the last couple of days, Ive just started 30 mg now and still no sides, no back pumps, no acne.

 

[flw]

I'm about half way into my 3rd week, started 30mg at the beginning of the week. Strength has been good, pumps have been good and I've put on about 4 lbs. I'm still not feeling the on feeling though. I've had just as good pumps while bulking naturally and workouts are really good but I've had comporable workouts naturally aswell. I kind of like that my workouts are not too out of this world because coming off of my cycle should be easier I hope! my diet has been pretty good, I've not been measuring and weighing everything but I'm pretty good at estimating stuff and I keep track on fitday. I've been eating at or slightly above mantaince with about 200 to 250mg protein, and mostly whole wheat carbs allthough my trail mix has some chocolate in it and I have granola sometimes which has some sugar. Eating quite a bit of fruit too and fiber. I'm training one body part per day 5 days a week win the exception of stomach and calves which I do about 2 to 3 times per week. I think I've decided to definately go up to 40mg as I'm just not feeling this stuff as much as I think I should be, I'm looking a little bigger but have not lost body fat so the 4lbs of gain is it! Does havoc usually take this long for weight gains to kick in strong? I was origionally going to do 20, 20, 30, 30 as this is my first cycle.
Anyone think I'm not getting the effect I should be or that anything I'm doing is off enough to effect things? thanks in advance for your input,

 

[Glynn50]

Try going for a 6 week cycle with the remainder at 40mg. If you're not already, try taking 20mg 45-60mins before the gym.

 

[flw]

Cool, thanks, so you think I should bump it to 40 right now or wait till wk 4 and then do 40mg wks 4, 5 and 6?

Try going for a 6 week cycle with the remainder at 40mg. If you're not already, try taking 20mg 45-60mins before the gym.

 

[Glynn50]

Depends how much you have of the stuff, thats what i would personally do. Splitting the dosage changes into weeks is just a guideline.

 

[flw]

should I add any support sups if I'm going out to 6 weeks? I'm currently taking cycle support 2x day, omegas, aminos, glutamine, multi, c, zma, toco-8, nozoral (sp) shampoo and cissus.
Maybe add some more liver support?

 

[flw]

I'm 16 pills short on havoc to go 6 weeks, I think ihave enough of everything to go 5 weeks though.

 

[flw]

back pumps kicked in a little today, been on 40mg/day for three days I think. Worked back today, went nice and heavy on deads. My recovery times are super short, I'm considering changing to training two body parts a day to get each one in twice a week, just not sure if i can make time to spend the extra time every evening at the gym plus I really like training one part to utter exhaustion, if I could go AM and PM I would!

 

[flw]

Having trouble staying hydrated, drinking about 1.5 gallons plus ed. Urine is some what dark In the mornings, I feel like I should be waking up in the middle of the night for a protein shake and a half gallon of water! i usually feel fully hydrated by 1 or 2 pm and urine lightens up for the rest of the day but I'm pissing constantly, getting sudden urges to piss or I'm going to explode. I Feel good but I can tell my body is working hard to combat the havoc and all the training.
If any of you veterans have an input or advice, I would really appreciate it.

 

[spshond]

Iam on my 3rd week, iam pretty happey with the fact that I do not see or feel any of the side affects that people talk about even as Iam taking 2 Methyls - Havoc and H-drol. 3rd week running 40mg the rest of the way through and 100mg of Hdrol the rest of the way through. Joint Pain is starting to kick in I feel, I ran out of my multi - Ornage triad which has joint support and I feel it more so now. Iam taking super cissus rx as well.

 

[flw]

Two substances huh, I'd be interested in seeing your blood labs after, you planning on getting them done?
Are you keeping track of your progress? Good luck!

Iam on my 3rd week, iam pretty happey with the fact that I do not see or feel any of the side affects that people talk about even as Iam taking 2 Methyls - Havoc and H-drol. 3rd week running 40mg the rest of the way through and 100mg of Hdrol the rest of the way through. Joint Pain is starting to kick in I feel, I ran out of my multi - Ornage triad which has joint support and I feel it more so now. Iam taking super cissus rx as well.

 

[spshond]

You have to remember that these are very mild Designers. My gains have been very impressive. Iam leaning out like i should be. The diet of course has 90% to do with it and working out each body part 2x per week 6 days a week helps as well. I really do not understand the individuals that say they gained 10 lbs on designers, they must be eating plenty and gaining alot of unwanted fat on my part. My gains have only been 3 lbs and Iam happy with that but my arms and legs look fuller and abs are starting to show. The pumps are amazing, I give you that. 2 more weeks and Iam ready to start my post cycle therapy. I will really be leaning out in PCT, I will be adding Clen to my PCT. Question I have is the SERM, how will you know if SERM is needed. For now, I do not see anything that would tell me that I need it thus far. Would you take it though, even though you have no noticeble sides?

 

[flw]

from my understanding a serm is a must, I don't think sides have anything to do with being shut down or needing a serm. I think you should just dose the serm low but def use it. Hopefully someone else will chime in here though.

You have to remember that these are very mild Designers. My gains have been very impressive. Iam leaning out like i should be. The diet of course has 90% to do with it and working out each body part 2x per week 6 days a week helps as well. I really do not understand the individuals that say they gained 10 lbs on designers, they must be eating plenty and gaining alot of unwanted fat on my part. My gains have only been 3 lbs and Iam happy with that but my arms and legs look fuller and abs are starting to show. The pumps are amazing, I give you that. 2 more weeks and Iam ready to start my post cycle therapy. I will really be leaning out in PCT, I will be adding Clen to my PCT. Question I have is the SERM, how will you know if SERM is needed. For now, I do not see anything that would tell me that I need it thus far. Would you take it though, even though you have no noticeble sides?

 

[spshond]

Noted, Anyone want to add there thoughts on weater you would add the SERM at a low dosage when no noticeable sides are seen. What dosage would you be recommending?

 

[flw]

bump for his question.

Noted, Anyone want to add there thoughts on weater you would add the SERM at a low dosage when no noticeable sides are seen. What dosage would you be recommending?

 

[poppydogg]

gonna start havoc next week sometime
do u think doing a 30/30/40/40 is ok ? or should i start at 20?
i dont want to start with small dosages as im around the 230 range right now...any ideas? thanks

 

[nosnmiveins]

gonna start havoc next week sometime
do u think doing a 30/30/40/40 is ok ? or should i start at 20?
i dont want to start with small dosages as im around the 230 range right now...any ideas? thanks

30/30/40/40 is fine for ur size, im assuming u have more than one bottle? if so, u may even want to go over 40mgs