Chest Workouts after Shoulder Injury

[mgkoret]

Hey all,

Working on building some massive pecks and looking for some training advise.
Been lifting and training for a few years and diet is on track. Looking to really hit the bottom outside of the muscle group. My upper sections and mid line are coming out nice but I'm not hitting that underside hard enough and I'm forming a little off.

Any good exercises to hit that trouble spot?
I tore my rotator cuff last year and it makes it hard to bench. Too much weight and my shoulder gives out. I know flat bench and decline are good options to hit that section, but is there anything else that would be easier on my shoulder and build that muscle?

Thanks all!

 

[jeremiah0079]

Gironda dips

 

[broken bottle]

In for responses. I can currently only db press and pec dec safely for chest.

 

[RegisterJr]

-Pec Minor Dips (you may have to look it up)

-Hex Press from flat and slight decline. (By slight decline I mean put a 3" plate under one side of the bench.) A typical full decline bench puts a lot on the shoulders. Make sure you're constantly pushing the DBs together, and flex at the top.

In for responses. I can currently only db press and pec dec safely for chest.

For you and OP, do you bench with an arch? I used to only have to use the DB's also due to shoulder pain. Once I changed my bench to more of a powerlifting style bench, I made a lot of progress and had zero shoulder issues.

Look at the "So you think you can bench" YouTube series. It'll take some getting used to but will be worth it in the long run.

Also, stay away from the Smith machines. Them having no give might put your shoulder in a position that it's not comfortable. (Otherwise I have no issues with utilizing the smith machine)

 

[kjetil1234]

Which rotator cuff muscle tore? Partial or full tear?

 

[mgkoret]

Which rotator cuff muscle tore? Partial or full tear?

Right
Partial tear. Deep scar tissue

 

[kjetil1234]

No, which muscle? The rotator cuff consists of four muscles with different functions.

as long as it's a partial I think you have a good chance of healing up IF you follow a proper rehab program.

 

[mgkoret]

No, which muscle? The rotator cuff consists of four muscles with different functions. as long as it's a partial I think you have a good chance of healing up IF you follow a proper rehab program.

Bottom of the subscapularis near the capsular ligament to the pectoral muscle. Also dislocated the shoulder and hyperextended the supraspinatus tendon

 

[kjetil1234]

Ok mate. So the subscap is the internal rotator right, and when it's dysfunctional the lats, teres
Major and pecs will compensate. Problem is that these muscles do NOT have the same function, and will pull the humeral head (arm bone) out of alignment in the socket. This may lead to arthritis, further tears and other ****.

So, what I would do if you were my client is test your RC. Get all the muscles including the subscap strong and healthy.

You'll want the external rotators (infraspinatus and teres minor) to rep at least 8 of 10% of your max bench or horizontal pull. The subscap (internal rotation) should be approx 30% stronger.

Example 315 bench.
RC strength required:
Ext rot: 315*10=31,5lbs 8 reps
Int rot: 31,5*1,33=41 lbs 8 reps

For abuction (supraspinatus) I don't have a base strength. I suppose 8 reps with 25s or higher in a DB side raise is strong enough for most.

The next is assessing the mobility of your shoulder and the function of the scapula. All which is critical aswell.

You'll want sufficient IR to raise the hand 5 inches off your back. You'll want sufficient ER to rotate your humerus at least 70 degrees (90 degrees will mean that wrist is pointing straight to the side)

I don't have a measurement of the ROM in addiction but I don't think it'll be a problem.

Here's a major importance. Scapular kinesiology and stability. You'll want a strong and functional scapular movement. The serratus anterior especially seems to be weak or inhibited in many clients.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mve_pIrXGyo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGaex_r1TA

The scapula HAS to be able to posteriorly rotate and abduct (wrap around the chest) for efficiently allowing the humeral head to move inside the glenoid fossa (socket). Also adequate thoracic extension is required for the scapula to move properly.

Conclusion

1 get the scapula to move and stabilize properly

2 strengthen rotator cuff, internal external and abduction

3 assess and correct poor mobility in the glenohumeral or thoracoscapular joints. Meaning lack of internal or external rotation in the shoulder or lack of extension in the thoracic spine.

Wish you the best recovery bro.

 

[broken bottle]

Ok mate. So the subscap is the internal rotator right, and when it's dysfunctional the lats, teres
Major and pecs will compensate. Problem is that these muscles do NOT have the same function, and will pull the humeral head (arm bone) out of alignment in the socket. This may lead to arthritis, further tears and other ****.

So, what I would do if you were my client is test your RC. Get all the muscles including the subscap strong and healthy.

You'll want the external rotators (infraspinatus and teres minor) to rep at least 8 of 10% of your max bench or horizontal pull. The subscap (internal rotation) should be approx 30% stronger.

Example 315 bench.
RC strength required:
Ext rot: 315*10=31,5lbs 8 reps
Int rot: 31,5*1,33=41 lbs 8 reps

For abuction (supraspinatus) I don't have a base strength. I suppose 8 reps with 25s or higher in a DB side raise is strong enough for most.

The next is assessing the mobility of your shoulder and the function of the scapula. All which is critical aswell.

You'll want sufficient IR to raise the hand 5 inches off your back. You'll want sufficient ER to rotate your humerus at least 70 degrees (90 degrees will mean that wrist is pointing straight to the side)

I don't have a measurement of the ROM in addiction but I don't think it'll be a problem.

Here's a major importance. Scapular kinesiology and stability. You'll want a strong and functional scapular movement. The serratus anterior especially seems to be weak or inhibited in many clients.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mve_pIrXGyo

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PtGaex_r1TA

The scapula HAS to be able to posteriorly rotate and abduct (wrap around the chest) for efficiently allowing the humeral head to move inside the glenoid fossa (socket). Also adequate thoracic extension is required for the scapula to move properly.

Conclusion

1 get the scapula to move and stabilize properly

2 strengthen rotator cuff, internal external and abduction

3 assess and correct poor mobility in the glenohumeral or thoracoscapular joints. Meaning lack of internal or external rotation in the shoulder or lack of extension in the thoracic spine.

Wish you the best recovery bro.

Can I pm you to get some advice?

 

[kjetil1234]

Sure mate

 

[warrior737]

On a bicycle years ago I have broken my clavical and collar bone and split my rotator cuff. I found dips helped my shoulder the most. Along with tons of front and side raises. After I got a lot of shoulder strength back, I would also do a lot of close grip bench. it helps keep the shoulders very tight and work the chest and tri's

 

[kjetil1234]

The close grip works well because it requires little glenohumeral mobility (which most of us are lacking). However if the problem is stability (Rot cuff strength), a close grip will be just as detrimental. An assessment of the GH joint and scapula must be done prior to commencing any tough exercises

 

[broken bottle]

The close grip works well because it requires little glenohumeral mobility (which most of us are lacking). However if the problem is stability (Rot cuff strength), a close grip will be just as detrimental. An assessment of the GH joint and scapula must be done prior to commencing any tough exercises

Hmm this must be why I can't do close grips at all.

 

[NattyForLife]

Hmm this must be why I can't do close grips at all.

Any kind of pressing bother you?

 

[broken bottle]

Any kind of pressing bother you?

I can strict overhead press or push press fine but that is it. I was progressing good with flat db press but that also ended bad for me. Luckily kjetil layed out a recovery plan for me that was better than I've gotten from my local medical doctors.

 

[kjetil1234]

I can strict overhead press or push press fine but that is it. I was progressing good with flat db press but that also ended bad for me. Luckily kjetil layed out a recovery plan for me that was better than I've gotten from my local medical doctors.

Sounds about right. OHP is more ER dependent and lying presses more IR (spending on elbow flare).

Optimize your RC function and work mobility when the strength is optimal.

Happy to hear you're content with the plan

 

[mgkoret]

You sir are more knowledgable than any therapist iv seen. That is a great layout. I'll be starting those tests and assessments after the weekend. Thank you so much.

Yeah dips have helped this week a lot iv noticed. Def felt the burn in the right areas of the pec after this weeks chest workout with the addition of hex press and a 21 various dip set

Thanks to all

 

[kjetil1234]

I wouldn't know about that bro but thanks for the kind words

 

[mgkoret]

The last guy I went to just said to do side raises and push up till it felt better. Did that for months with no avail. Showed me some PT sheets and I did them for awhile but it never really got much better. Iv been pushing through it, but I just needed to get more info and try something new.

 

[kjetil1234]

Weird. That's well and fine for strengthening of serratus and supraspinatus (which ARE important too). But does nothing for the lateral and medial rotation.

 

[kjetil1234]

Hmm this must be why I can't do close grips at all.

Mate your inbox is full. Here's my answer to your PM

Lol dude... No pressing until the subscap is stronger. When subscap is weak, the big muscles (which are also ALL internal rotators) WILL pull the armbone out of socket, potentially ripping labrums and all kinds of ****.

Stick to leg workouts until you can atleast get 20lbs for 8 in internal rotation with perfect form.

Read delt is ok, you can do it. POSSIBLY pec deck, but no rows or pressing. Except tricep extensions and preacher curls etc

The link isn't clickable from my phone mate sorry

 

[Gutterpump]

When I get a shoulder injury, I stick to bands for shoulder/chest work until I build up sufficient strength.

D1/D2 (diagonal movement patterns) PNF, etc. This is the safest way to build up strength after an injury. I tend to keep it up as well, when I move back into normal training. I would also focus on stability exercises and some mobility. Stability is far more important after a shoulder injury.

Also probably want to completely stay away from dips after a shoulder injury. I've learned that through experience and several first hand stories from others.

 

[NattyForLife]

When I get a shoulder injury, I stick to bands for shoulder/chest work until I build up sufficient strength. D1/D2 (diagonal movement patterns) PNF, etc. This is the safest way to build up strength after an injury. I tend to keep it up as well, when I move back into normal training. I would also focus on stability exercises and some mobility. Stability is far more important after a shoulder injury. Also probably want to completely stay away from dips after a shoulder injury. I've learned that through experience and several first hand stories from others.

Weird! We just got through learning about PNF for neurological patients!

 

[Gutterpump]

Weird! We just got through learning about PNF for neurological patients!

PNF exercises are amazing for the shoulders. I try to do them every other day with bands. I think once strong enough, some TRX type bandwork might work really well for shoulder stability, but you've gotta really ease into that type of work.