Ultra Hard Dose?

[Larrabars]

I have been using for over a week with 4 pumps for the first 6 days, then 5 pumps the last 3. I am considering increasing to 7-8 each day for the remainder of my 8 week cycle, any experiences with this? My thought is to increase the androsterone while also retaining the 3:1 ratio with epi. Currently 1 "serving"(5 pumps) contains 375mg epiandro, 125mg androsterone. The androsterone would be closer to alpha seven dosage of 200mg. I am also using 5 pumps each of ultra eleven and dermacrine.

 

[Tunaking14]

The more the better if you can afford it!!! That's a lot of gel to spread around!!

 

[Smont]

The more the better if you can afford it!!! That's a lot of gel to spread around!!

I mostly agree with this, you can dose epiandro stupid high and the results just seem to improve. A long while back I experiment with some big doses, 1200 oral I believe and some guys at that time were doing 1800 oral. You could probably achieve similar results with 700-1000mg td

 

[Smont]

8 pumps would get you pretty close

 

[Larrabars]

I mostly agree with this, you can dose epiandro stupid high and the results just seem to improve. A long while back I experiment with some big doses, 1200 oral I believe and some guys at that time were doing 1800 oral. You could probably achieve similar results with 700-1000mg td

What about androsterone dosages?

 

[Smont]

What about androsterone dosages?

I'm not sure if I've ever used androsterone (unless there is androsterone in dermacrine) but from my understanding it's a very mild low side effects hormone so I would assume that you could run it fairly high as well. I wouldn't be too worried. Maybe someone else knows better on that compound

 

[KvanH]

I agree with everything said here, so go nuts. But man that's a lot of gel to be applied. 4 pumps of those gels pretty much covers my whole upper body.

 

[Tunaking14]

I'm in the middle of a run of Ultra Hard & Dermacrine. I'm running about 6 pumps of each per day. (2 bottles of Ultrahard and 2 of Dermacrine) I'm a little over 3 weeks in and just opened the second bottles of each. I'm also running Evomuse Andro-lotion along with Apex AET-50/Ursa/Flashpoint. It's been a pain in the azz finding enough skin to apply this stuff but where there's a will, there is a way.............thanks to the ole coinpurse!!

 

[Smont]

A while back I did a cycle with a bunch of td stuff. Split it up to 3 applications per day.

I would wake up an shower and apply, after work I hit the gym, came home, shower and apply and I did my last dose before bed. It works but was extremely annoying.

Now if I'm going to use a TD product I make sure it's 1 product and something that I can fit the daily dose in 1 application. Otherwise it's just not worth the aggravation to me.

But, this is why I'm excited about 450mg per serving epiandro product! Epiandro is the last Andro I still use.


Love the stuff

 

[Larrabars]

I agree with everything said here, so go nuts. But man that's a lot of gel to be applied. 4 pumps of those gels pretty much covers my whole upper body.

Yeah it’s a lot, comes out to about 21 pumps a day total 8 ultra hard, 8 ultra eleven, 5 Dermacrine. Splitting into morning and evening dosing which works out and the gel dries relatively fast

 

[Larrabars]

I'm in the middle of a run of Ultra Hard & Dermacrine. I'm running about 6 pumps of each per day. (2 bottles of Ultrahard and 2 of Dermacrine) I'm a little over 3 weeks in and just opened the second bottles of each. I'm also running Evomuse Andro-lotion along with Apex AET-50/Ursa/Flashpoint. It's been a pain in the azz finding enough skin to apply this stuff but where there's a will, there is a way.............thanks to the ole coinpurse!!

Are you keeping the Dermacrine and ultra hard doses equal for a reason besides just finishing the bottles at the same time? I’m keeping Dermacrine at 5 pumps a day(2 bottles) and increasing ultra hard/ultra eleven to 8 pumps each (3 bottles) over my 8 weeks

Edit: are you applying your apex products to the same places? I have some on the way

 

[Smont]

Yeah it’s a lot, comes out to about 21 pumps a day total 8 ultra hard, 8 ultra eleven, 5 Dermacrine. Splitting into morning and evening dosing which works out and the gel dries relatively fast

Couple good application sites you may not be using. Inner forearm and inner biceps, tops of feet and shins, back of kneecap, the space between your bellybutton and your junk, and your nutsack.

 

[Larrabars]

Couple good application sites you may not be using. Inner forearm and inner biceps, tops of feet and shins, back of kneecap, the space between your bellybutton and your junk, and your nutsack.

That opens a lot of real estate! Mainly just been using chest, upper back, lats, then residual left on hands to inner arms/shins

 

[KvanH]

The nutsack is a great addition, I can apply like 4 pumps there.

 

[KvanH]

That opens a lot of real estate! Mainly just been using chest, upper back, lats, then residual left on hands to inner arms/shins

I would primarly keep the UH and if possible, the Derma at above nips, as there's more of these entzymes in the skin there, that convert the PH's to their desired target hormones.

With UE just use thin skin areas as it needs no conversion. If you want to use the nuts as an application site, I would only apply Derma there. The UE has been the most drying out inducing TD I've used and the scrotum is pretty sensitive area. I've ever only applied dhea there.

 

[Larrabars]

Thoughts on including Somatozine to my stack and run for 8 weeks at 1 cap per day? Would that be bad for a cut? I’ve taken it before but ram at 25mg per day, 1 cap would be 12.5mg

Edits: it’s MK-677

 

[KvanH]

Thoughts on including Somatozine to my stack and run for 8 weeks at 1 cap per day? Would that be bad for a cut? I’ve taken it before but ram at 25mg per day, 1 cap would be 12.5mg

Edits: it’s MK-677

It wouldn't be bad for a cut, unless it significantly increases your appetite. How much adding it would help, I don't know.

 

[Smont]

Thoughts on including Somatozine to my stack and run for 8 weeks at 1 cap per day? Would that be bad for a cut? I’ve taken it before but ram at 25mg per day, 1 cap would be 12.5mg

Edits: it’s MK-677

Personal opinion from prior experience, it acts nothing like real gh when it comes to fat loss and is better applied in a bulking situation. It also negatively impacts insulin sensitivity, so on a low carb diet you may avoid that problem but again, its better saved for a bulk

 

[Smont]

And mind you in a rep for that company, and I'm steering you away from that product on a cut. Save it for another day

 

[Smont]

It wouldn't be bad for a cut, unless it significantly increases your appetite. How much adding it would help, I don't know.

Dosent burn fat like gh, spiked insulin sensitivity and makes you hungry, makes you retain some water.

It's better for bulking season. I like it a lot but used when it's

 

[KvanH]

Dosent burn fat like gh, spiked insulin sensitivity and makes you hungry, makes you retain some water.

It's better for bulking season.

I'm not too informed about how great the insulin sensitivity aspect of Mk-677 is, but insulin sensivity is usually at it's best, when cutting, right? So in a way it can do more harm, when bulking on that regard. But sure if it meaningfully diminishes the positive effects of clean diet, less calories and increased cardio on insulin sensivity on a cut. Water is just water and will leave, when MK is discontinued.

But I don't really disagree. I would rather use it, when not cutting myself too, due to the hunger increase.

 

[Larrabars]

I’m more so Recomping while trying to get lean, thinking the water may help with joints on these dry compounds while also helping potential growth and general skin benefits

 

[Smont]

I'm not too informed about how great the insulin sensitivity aspect of Mk-677 is, but insulin sensivity is usually at it's best, when cutting, right? So in a way it can do more harm, when bulking on that regard. But sure if it meaningfully diminishes the positive effects of clean diet, less calories and increased cardio on insulin sensivity on a cut. Water is just water and will leave, when MK is discontinued.

But I don't really disagree. I would rather use it, when not cutting myself too, due to the hunger increase.

So overtime with MK it can really screw up your insulin sensitivity. I don't know if it's universal and it happens to everybody but it happens to a lot of people and it can actually do it pretty bad. Keeping carbohydrates and calories low can manage it. In a bulking situation where you can't do that lowering your carbs significantly on your rest days and doing like a five on two off with the MK can also help using things like barbering or a glucose disposal agent with your carbohydrate meals can also help. There's definitely ways around it. I also know some guys who like to use it for 3 weeks and then come off it for a week the week that their off it they'll use a bunch of gdas drop their carbs down a little bit but keep their calories High and then repeat the process. For 25 bucks you can get yourself a little glucose meter from Walmart and keep an eye on it that way and that's probably the best way to know what's going on

 

[Smont]

I’m more so Recomping while trying to get lean, thinking the water may help with joints on these dry compounds while also helping potential growth and general skin benefits

My personal opinion is that recomping is a huge waste of time unless your goal is to make very little progress over a very long period of time. I spent an entire year on a full-blown steroid cycles blasting and cruising in recomp mode. After one year I made less progress than I made following up that recap with one bulk and one cut.

Unless you are just training seriously and eating correctly for the first time ever or it's your very first time ever taking steroids recomping is the least optimal way to make progress. I'm not saying you need to bulk up like a fatty but you got to pick a goal you either trying to build muscle or you're trying to lose fat if you're trying to do both at the same time you're dramatically hindering the results of one or the other

 

[Smont]

If you want some extra water retention take creatine

 

[Smont]

Literally every guy on the planet wants to recomp and everyone that tries it realizes it's not the way to go. You're an adult and you're more than welcome to do whatever you want but I'm trying to save you a lot of wasted time

 

[KvanH]

My personal opinion is that recomping is a huge waste of time unless your goal is to make very little progress over a very long period of time. I spent an entire year on a full-blown steroid cycles blasting and cruising in recomp mode. After one year I made less progress than I made following up that recap with one bulk and one cut.

Unless you are just training seriously and eating correctly for the first time ever or it's your very first time ever taking steroids recomping is the least optimal way to make progress. I'm not saying you need to bulk up like a fatty but you got to pick a goal you either trying to build muscle or you're trying to lose fat if you're trying to do both at the same time you're dramatically hindering the results of one or the other

I couldn't agree more with this and have been saying this a few times, but (some) people seem to be so found of the recomp idea, that they don't want to hear it.

And I obviously can't argue with peoples results they've got and if they're pleased with their recomping results, then that's great. I will however make a claim, that in 95% of time one will get better results bulking 4 months and cutting 2 months, than recomping for 6 months, for example.

 

[Smont]

Greg doucette loves to talk about recomping and maintaining, there's a reason he never grew beyond 200 lb of stage weight. As good as his genetics were and as good as he looks on stage he just never got any bigger. And there's plenty of guys his height with way worse genetics who gotten way bigger than him. Greg was adding like 1 lb of muscle per year or something like that his last five years while on steroids. Most professional bodybuilders add somewhere from 6 to 10 lb of stage weight per year. Sooooo, what's that, roughly 6 to 10 times the results doing it the right way?

 

[Smont]

I couldn't agree more with this and have been saying this a few times, but (some) people seem to be so found of the recomp idea, that they don't want to hear it.

And I obviously can't argue with peoples results they've got and if they're pleased with their recomping results, then that's great. I will however make a claim, that in 95% of time one will get better results bulking 4 months and cutting 2 months, than recomping for 6 months, for example.

Still get better bulking for four and cutting for two then they will recomping for one year I'm living proof of that one.

 

[KvanH]

Mike Israetel had a good clip about striving for recomp. I'm not sure, if this is the excat clip I'm thinking about, but this was the first result with a quick search.

 

[Smont]

Mike Israetel had a good clip about striving for recomp. I'm not sure, if this is the excat clip I'm thinking about, but this was the first result with a quick search.

I think he has a few on the subject, nailing a recomp phase is like discovering a unicorn

 

[Larrabars]

I feel like an effective Recomp would be an alternating bulk/cut diet every week on anabolics to gain/retain size while remaining relatively lean and not allowing excessive weight retention on the cut weeks

 

[Smont]

I feel like an effective Recomp would be an alternating bulk/cut diet every week on anabolics to gain/retain size while remaining relatively lean and not allowing excessive weight retention on the cut weeks

I'm really not trying to be a jerk but that's like one of the worst approaches I've ever heard. I don't care how much gear you're on you're not going to build any muscle tissue in one week maybe a few ounces if you're lucky, and the following week you're going to go into caloric deficit and lose that answer to of muscle you built. Like a perfect recipe to make no progress ever. Don't try to reinvent the wheel guys have been doing this for literally like 80 years

 

[Smont]

Try it For yourself, don't let what I say stop you. But be honest with yourself take pictures every week and four five six months down the road go back and look at those pictures and say should have really taken 4 to 6 months for this to happen. If you're happy with what you see and you think it was a reasonable amount of gains in four to six months, then maybe recomping is for you but I doubt that's the answer you're going to come to

 

[cheftepesh1]

Try it For yourself, don't let what I say stop you. But be honest with yourself take pictures every week and four five six months down the road go back and look at those pictures and say should have really taken 4 to 6 months for this to happen. If you're happy with what you see and you think it was a reasonable amount of gains in four to six months, then maybe recomping is for you but I doubt that's the answer you're going to come to

This is really good advice. You have to look at how you feel about where your at.