Thread: Anti Inflammatory Benefits of b-Androstenetriol (b-AET)

[thebigt]

@Hypnotic traveling

 

[thebigt]

Anti Inflammatory Benefits of b-Androstenetriol (b-AET)

Iconic Formulations Topical Androstenetriol - Neuro AET

​

Androstene-3 beta-7 beta-17 beta-triol (AET) represents a key naturally occurring 7-hydroxy dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) metabolite. Produced from the adrenal gland, DHEA and its sulfate are the major circulating adrenal steroids in humans. Serum levels peak in young adults, but then steadily decline with age, falling over 80% by age 70. DHEA serves as a precursor of male and female sex hormones. (1, 3, 5, 6)

DHEA demonstrates a plethora of anti-aging properties in rodents, including anti-inflammatory, anti-obesity, anti-diabetic, immune enhancing activities, and opposes certain activities of endogenous glucocorticoids (GC). As the literature grew, DHEA became widely used as an anti-aging, anti-stress dietary supplement. Despite these well-documented activities in animal models, DHEA supplementation in humans has yielded inconclusive results and the value of DHEA replacement in humans is controversial. Such widely different outcomes in rodents and humans have been referred to as ‘the DHEA conundrum’. Moreover, the potential therapeutic use of DHEA is limited by its side effects due to its conversion to sex hormones.

One possibility to explain these discrepancies is that a metabolite(s) of DHEA, rather than DHEA itself, may be necessary for its full action in human physiology. DHEA undergoes extensive conversion and derivatization to multiple products by phase 1 reactions involving the cytochrome P450 system, and studies have shown that these phase 1 products can be more potent than parental DHEA. Phase 1 reactions frequently decline in elderly subjects, and since such subjects have been the major participants in human DHEA treatment studies, it is possible that biologically active metabolites of DHEA were not produced in adequate amounts in previous human studies. It is also possible that qualitative changes in DHEA metabolism between rodents and humans will account for these differences.

DHEA oxidation via the action of the enzyme CYP7B leads to the 7-hydroxy derivatives of C-19 steroids, which are collectively present in low nanomolar concentrations in human circulation and are not readily metabolized to potent androgens or estrogens. Many of the functions initially attributed to DHEA from observations in rodents are now thought to be properties of these oxygenated metabolites, particularly AET.

Molecular Structure of Androstenetriol

AET possesses some of the anti-inflammatory and GC-opposing activities that have been attributed to DHEA, but with greater apparent potency. Studies with AET demonstrate it markedly up regulates host immune response, prevents immune suppression, modulates inflammation and improves survival after lethal infections by pathogens and lethal radiation. (1, 3, 5, 6)

AET has been shown to be protective against traumatic shock. Traumatic shock activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) to mediate a cascade of defensive mechanisms that often include overwhelming inflammatory response and immunosuppression, which may lead to multiple organ failure. In a relevant traumatic hemorrhagic shock rodent model that applies to both combat and civilian sectors, AET provided a significant protective effect and improved survival. In a murine thermal injury model that includes glucocorticoid-induced osteopenia, AET significantly preserved bone mineral content, restored whole body bone mineral content and bone growth, suggesting reversal of GC-mediated adverse effects.

Since AET is a naturally occurring compound there is no patent protection leaving the door wide open for AET analogue research. Harbor BioSciences, Inc. –http://www.harborbiosciences.com/ (Public, OTC:HRBR –OTC:HRBR - Google Search ) is exploring a synthetic derivative of AET for the treatment of diseases with underlying chronic inflammation. HRBR has developed 17alpha-Ethynyl-5-androsten-3beta, 7beta, 17beta-triol (HE3286), a synthetic derivative AET. (1, 2, 4, 7)

Within the past two years, animal model studies of HE3286 successfully demonstrate the treatment of lung inflammation without immune suppression, the reduction of established disease of rheumatoid arthritis, and both glucose-lowering and cholesterol-lowering effects. Harbor BioSciences most ambitious project to date is their recently released data regarding that plasma levels of AET positively correlate with BMI in healthy men and women.(1) These observations suggest a compensatory role for AET in preventing the development of metabolic syndrome and obesity. The AET structural core may provide the basis for novel pharmaceuticals to treat this disease, HE3286. Stay tuned.



1. Auci DL, Ahlem CN, Kennedy MR, Page TM, Reading CL, Frincke JM. A Potential Role for 5-Androstene-3[beta],7[beta],17[beta]-triol in Obesity and Metabolic Syndrome. Obesity. Academic Journals formerly published by NPG



2. Conrad D, Wang A, Pieters R, et al. HE3286, an oral synthetic steroid, treats lung inflammation in mice without immune suppression. Journal of Inflammation 2010;7(1):52. HE3286, an oral synthetic steroid, treats lung inflammation in mice without immune suppression | Journal of Inflammation | Full Text



3. Loria RM. Antiglucocorticoid function of androstenetriol. Psychoneuroendocrinology 1997;22 Suppl 1:S103-8.



4. Lu M, Patsouris D, Li P, et al. A new antidiabetic compound attenuates inflammation and insulin resistance in Zucker diabetic fatty rats. American Journal of Physiology – Endocrinology And Metabolism 2010;298(5):E1036-E48. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/298/5/E1036.full



5. Malik AK, Khaldoyanidi S, Auci DL, et al. 5-androstene-3?,7?,17?-triol (?-AET) Slows Thermal Injury Induced Osteopenia in Mice: Relation to Aging and Osteoporosis. PLoS ONE;5(10):e13566. 5-Androstene-3β,7β,17β-triol (β-AET) Slows Thermal Injury Induced Osteopenia in Mice: Relation to Aging and Osteoporosis



6. Marcu AC, Paccione KE, Barbee RW, et al. Androstenetriol Immunomodulation Improves Survival in a Severe Trauma Hemorrhage Shock Model. The Journal of Trauma 2007;63(3):662-9.



7. Offner H, Firestein GS, Boyle DL, et al. An Orally Bioavailable Synthetic Analog of an Active Dehydroepiandrosterone Metabolite Reduces Established Disease in Rodent Models of Rheumatoid Arthritis. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics 2009;329(3):1100-9. An Orally Bioavailable Synthetic Analog of an Active Dehydroepiandrosterone Metabolite Reduces Established Disease in Rodent Models of Rheumatoid Arthritis | Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics



8. Stiles AR, McDonald JG, Bauman DR, Russell DW. CYP7B1: One Cytochrome P450, Two Human Genetic Diseases, and Multiple Physiological Functions. Journal of Biological Chemistry 2009;284(42):28485-9.

Source: Anti-inflammatory Benefits of Androstenetriol (b-AET) - iconicformulations

@New guy

 

[thebigt]

Have you mixed the NEURO DRIVE STACK with AET?

not specifically, but i have used dermacrine and AET....but actually i liked either virtus or sustain alpha together with either neuro AET or invictus better...there are a lot of effective combinations, i guess we all have our favorites.

 

[cheftepesh1]

not specifically, but i have used dermacrine and AET....but actually i liked either virtus or sustain alpha together with either neuro AET or invictus better...there are a lot of effective combinations, i guess we all have our favorites.

Interesting combo. I might to give it a run.

 

[thebigt]

Does sustain alpha suppress natural test production?

no.
Sustain Alpha is great for pct as well as in stack or standalone test booster...so no suppression.

 

[dondon]

no.
Sustain Alpha is great for pct as well as in stack or standalone test booster...so no suppression.

That’s great, I’m impressed with dermacrine so I just got a bottle of sustain alpha after using dermacrine for a few weeks, I can stack them both right? And if so how? I usually do this in the evening because if I do it in the morning I’ll be sweating at the gym a few hours later.

 

[thebigt]

That’s great, I’m impressed with dermacrine so I just got a bottle of sustain alpha after using dermacrine for a few weeks, I can stack them both right? And if so how? I usually do this in the evening because if I do it in the morning I’ll be sweating at the gym a few hours later.

glad you are enjoying the dermacrine , and yes you can you both at same time i have done this several times...apply dermacrine to upper body and sustain alpha to lower body...i used to work outside and would apply transdermals in morning before work and did a lot of sweating in summer months--if you are seeing good results from dermacrine then you should be fine adding in sustain alpha...

let us know how it treats you!!!!

 

[dondon]

glad you are enjoying the dermacrine , and yes you can you both at same time i have done this several times...apply dermacrine to upper body and sustain alpha to lower body...i used to work outside and would apply transdermals in morning before work and did a lot of sweating in summer months--if you are seeing good results from dermacrine then you should be fine adding in sustain alpha...

let us know how it treats you!!!!

Awesome! Thanks! I can’t wait to try both

 

[thebigt]

Awesome! Thanks! I can’t wait to try both

 

[dondon]

I have a question, does sustain alpha lower your estrogen significantly? I noticed I’m getting itchy and my joints are a little cranky, I know this because I had done TRT before and when I took arimidex it did the same thing.

 

[thebigt]

I have a question, does sustain alpha lower your estrogen significantly? I noticed I’m getting itchy and my joints are a little cranky, I know this because I had done TRT before and when I took arimidex it did the same thing.

how much any AI, including sustain alpha affects a person is highly individual--awhile back @delsolrob sent me a bottle of 7,8 benzo [the main AI in sustain] and i ran it at pretty high doses, much higher than what is in sustain and main effect i got was HIGH libido...but i am on trt and like i said effects will vary from person to person.

if you are getting unwanted sides i suggest lowering dosage and see if that helps--maybe you are a better than average responder and need less than average joe?

good luck!!!

 

[dondon]

how much any AI, including sustain alpha affects a person is highly individual--awhile back @delsolrob sent me a bottle of 7,8 benzo [the main AI in sustain] and i ran it at pretty high doses, much higher than what is in sustain and main effect i got was HIGH libido...but i am on trt and like i said effects will vary from person to person.

if you are getting unwanted sides i suggest lowering dosage and see if that helps--maybe you are a better than average responder and need less than average joe?

good luck!!!

Yeah, I’m thinking of playing with the dosag, I may do one pump alpha and one pump dermacrine as they both have reversatrol which I assume is the estrogen blocker. I weigh 212 pounds so I think that should be good

 

[thebigt]

Yeah, I’m thinking of playing with the dosag, I may do one pump alpha and one pump dermacrine as they both have reversatrol which I assume is the estrogen blocker. I weigh 212 pounds so I think that should be good

give it a go and see, if you get decent results from that dosage the products will be VERY cost effective.

trans res no doubt plays a role, but i believe it is the 7,8 benzo that is the heavy lifter as far as anti-aromatase.

good luck!!!

btw-if you have any questions just ask or feel free to pm me.

 

[dondon]

give it a go and see, if you get decent results from that dosage the products will be VERY cost effective.

trans res no doubt plays a role, but i believe it is the 7,8 benzo that is the heavy lifter as far as anti-aromatase.

good luck!!!

btw-if you have any questions just ask or feel free to pm me.

Thanks! I’ll let you know, I also started taking endoamp max

 

[thebigt]

Thanks! I’ll let you know, I’m also started taking endoamp max

big thumbsup for endoamp max--i'm a huge fan!!!

thanks for supporting iconic products!!!

 

[Darkhorse192]

could you theoretically take b-aet at 100mg daily indefinitely or is there any reason to "cycle off" whether it be a deleterious effect of long-term usage or just simply tolerance?

 

[thebigt]

could you theoretically take b-aet at 100mg daily indefinitely or is there any reason to "cycle off" whether it be a deleterious effect of long-term usage or just simply tolerance?

good question @delsolrob

 

[lanky]

could you theoretically take b-aet at 100mg daily indefinitely or is there any reason to "cycle off" whether it be a deleterious effect of long-term usage or just simply tolerance?

i was taking oral b-aet for somewhere around 3-4 months straight at a dose somewhere between 75-150mg a day, i noticed a few days after stopping my resting HR was a little elevated, usually i am in the 50s. when stopping cold turkey my HR was around 85-90. did not notice anything else besides a slow decline in muscle fullness over the next 2-3 weeks which would be expected

 

[Beavis Bungocchi]

Anti Inflammatory Benefits of b-Androstenetriol (b-AET)​

Iconic Formulations Topical Androstenetriol - Neuro AET
​

Androstene-3 beta-7 beta-17 beta-triol (AET) represents a key naturally occurring 7-hydroxy dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) metabolite. Produced from the adrenal gland, DHEA and its sulfate are the major circulating adrenal steroids in humans. Serum levels peak in young adults, but then steadily decline with age, falling over 80% by age 70. DHEA serves as a precursor of male and female sex hormones. (1, 3, 5, 6)

DHEA demonstrates a plethora of anti-aging properties in rodents, including anti-inflammatory, anti-obesity, anti-diabetic, immune enhancing activities, and opposes certain activities of endogenous glucocorticoids (GC). As the literature grew, DHEA became widely used as an anti-aging, anti-stress dietary supplement. Despite these well-documented activities in animal models, DHEA supplementation in humans has yielded inconclusive results and the value of DHEA replacement in humans is controversial. Such widely different outcomes in rodents and humans have been referred to as ‘the DHEA conundrum’. Moreover, the potential therapeutic use of DHEA is limited by its side effects due to its conversion to sex hormones.

One possibility to explain these discrepancies is that a metabolite(s) of DHEA, rather than DHEA itself, may be necessary for its full action in human physiology. DHEA undergoes extensive conversion and derivatization to multiple products by phase 1 reactions involving the cytochrome P450 system, and studies have shown that these phase 1 products can be more potent than parental DHEA. Phase 1 reactions frequently decline in elderly subjects, and since such subjects have been the major participants in human DHEA treatment studies, it is possible that biologically active metabolites of DHEA were not produced in adequate amounts in previous human studies. It is also possible that qualitative changes in DHEA metabolism between rodents and humans will account for these differences.

DHEA oxidation via the action of the enzyme CYP7B leads to the 7-hydroxy derivatives of C-19 steroids, which are collectively present in low nanomolar concentrations in human circulation and are not readily metabolized to potent androgens or estrogens. Many of the functions initially attributed to DHEA from observations in rodents are now thought to be properties of these oxygenated metabolites, particularly AET.

Molecular Structure of Androstenetriol

AET possesses some of the anti-inflammatory and GC-opposing activities that have been attributed to DHEA, but with greater apparent potency. Studies with AET demonstrate it markedly up regulates host immune response, prevents immune suppression, modulates inflammation and improves survival after lethal infections by pathogens and lethal radiation. (1, 3, 5, 6)

AET has been shown to be protective against traumatic shock. Traumatic shock activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) to mediate a cascade of defensive mechanisms that often include overwhelming inflammatory response and immunosuppression, which may lead to multiple organ failure. In a relevant traumatic hemorrhagic shock rodent model that applies to both combat and civilian sectors, AET provided a significant protective effect and improved survival. In a murine thermal injury model that includes glucocorticoid-induced osteopenia, AET significantly preserved bone mineral content, restored whole body bone mineral content and bone growth, suggesting reversal of GC-mediated adverse effects.

Since AET is a naturally occurring compound there is no patent protection leaving the door wide open for AET analogue research. Harbor BioSciences, Inc. –http://www.harborbiosciences.com/ (Public, OTC:HRBR –OTC:HRBR - Google Search ) is exploring a synthetic derivative of AET for the treatment of diseases with underlying chronic inflammation. HRBR has developed 17alpha-Ethynyl-5-androsten-3beta, 7beta, 17beta-triol (HE3286), a synthetic derivative AET. (1, 2, 4, 7)

Within the past two years, animal model studies of HE3286 successfully demonstrate the treatment of lung inflammation without immune suppression, the reduction of established disease of rheumatoid arthritis, and both glucose-lowering and cholesterol-lowering effects. Harbor BioSciences most ambitious project to date is their recently released data regarding that plasma levels of AET positively correlate with BMI in healthy men and women.(1) These observations suggest a compensatory role for AET in preventing the development of metabolic syndrome and obesity. The AET structural core may provide the basis for novel pharmaceuticals to treat this disease, HE3286. Stay tuned.



1. Auci DL, Ahlem CN, Kennedy MR, Page TM, Reading CL, Frincke JM. A Potential Role for 5-Androstene-3[beta],7[beta],17[beta]-triol in Obesity and Metabolic Syndrome. Obesity. Academic Journals formerly published by NPG



2. Conrad D, Wang A, Pieters R, et al. HE3286, an oral synthetic steroid, treats lung inflammation in mice without immune suppression. Journal of Inflammation 2010;7(1):52. HE3286, an oral synthetic steroid, treats lung inflammation in mice without immune suppression | Journal of Inflammation | Full Text



3. Loria RM. Antiglucocorticoid function of androstenetriol. Psychoneuroendocrinology 1997;22 Suppl 1:S103-8.



4. Lu M, Patsouris D, Li P, et al. A new antidiabetic compound attenuates inflammation and insulin resistance in Zucker diabetic fatty rats. American Journal of Physiology – Endocrinology And Metabolism 2010;298(5):E1036-E48. http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/298/5/E1036.full



5. Malik AK, Khaldoyanidi S, Auci DL, et al. 5-androstene-3?,7?,17?-triol (?-AET) Slows Thermal Injury Induced Osteopenia in Mice: Relation to Aging and Osteoporosis. PLoS ONE;5(10):e13566. 5-Androstene-3β,7β,17β-triol (β-AET) Slows Thermal Injury Induced Osteopenia in Mice: Relation to Aging and Osteoporosis



6. Marcu AC, Paccione KE, Barbee RW, et al. Androstenetriol Immunomodulation Improves Survival in a Severe Trauma Hemorrhage Shock Model. The Journal of Trauma 2007;63(3):662-9.



7. Offner H, Firestein GS, Boyle DL, et al. An Orally Bioavailable Synthetic Analog of an Active Dehydroepiandrosterone Metabolite Reduces Established Disease in Rodent Models of Rheumatoid Arthritis. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics 2009;329(3):1100-9. An Orally Bioavailable Synthetic Analog of an Active Dehydroepiandrosterone Metabolite Reduces Established Disease in Rodent Models of Rheumatoid Arthritis | Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics



8. Stiles AR, McDonald JG, Bauman DR, Russell DW. CYP7B1: One Cytochrome P450, Two Human Genetic Diseases, and Multiple Physiological Functions. Journal of Biological Chemistry 2009;284(42):28485-9.

Source: Anti-inflammatory Benefits of Androstenetriol (b-AET) - iconicformulations

Damn

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

I LOVE the b-AET + 7 keto combo. But it hurts my joints badly if using both at a full dose after some time. Joints get crazy dry. No one else goes through that?

 

[lanky]

I LOVE the b-AET + 7 keto combo. But it hurts my joints badly if using both at a full dose after some time. Joints get crazy dry. No one else goes through that?

i also get some joint pain in my ankles when i went high dose b-aet. muscle cramping in my hamstrings especially while swimming and reduced cardiovascular endurance on this compound. does make you retain more glycogen though and you stay full feeling even on a cut. b-aet is probably one of the most underrated products out there. was orally effective at 75mg a day for me. i think i went up to around 200mg and was not that much better than 75mg

 

[lanky]

at one point in 2005 they had a 17methyl b-aet product that was supposed to be insane but i never gave it a try. i think it was called "retain" version 2 by anabolic xtreme

 

[BigGame84]

at one point in 2005 they had a 17methyl b-aet product that was supposed to be insane but i never gave it a try. i think it was called "retain" version 2 by anabolic xtreme

17b-triol designed by Anabolic Xtreme is a next generation leaning agent. It was developed to fight negative cortisol levels, keeping your body in a pro-anabolic state, to get you completely shredded. Stack with Hyperdrol? and Mass FX for the most effective Xtreme muscle building stack available today.

17b-triol - THE KING OF CORTISOL CONTROL


Cortisol is a hormone made in the adrenal glands of the human body. Increases in cortisol are caused by acute physical and mental stress. When cortisol is released by the body, it causes a breakdown of muscle protein leading to a spike in blood sugar levels. This is the body's horrible solution for creating energy during times of stress. The end result of these actions are an increase in appetite, weight gain and muscle catabolism (your body eating it's own muscle for energy). 17b-triol (B-Androstenetriol) is a metabolite of DHEA and has been used for years to boost the immune system and for its cortisol lower effects. B-androstenetriol is between 100 and 100,000 times more active than its DHEA precursor metabolites leaving this compound as the champion of cortisol control. 17b-triol works against inactive cortisone and muscle eating cortisol glucocorticoids. In a nutshell 17b-triol lowers the negative cortisol levels in your body. Less cortisol and fat = more lean muscle!


Relora

A natural proprietary blend of a patented (U.S. Patent No. US 6,582,735) extract of Magnolia officinalis and a patent-pending extract from Phellodendron amurense. Relora is a natural stress and cortisol management ingredient that helps control stress-related eating and has the added value of being non-sedating. During open human and clinical trials no significant side effects were reported. The trials measure cortisol and DHEA levels in 12 patients with mild to moderate mental and physical stress. Elevated cortisol levels and depressed DHEA levels are associated with chronic stress. A two-week regimen of Relora caused a significant increase in DHEA (227%) and a significant decrease in morning cortisol levels (37%).


7-Keto DHEA

7-Keto DHEA improves lean body mass by reducing cortisol and increasing testosterone-to-cortisol ratios enabling the body to build muscle in a growth promoting environment. It has also been shown to increase your body's ability to burn calories. It is a non-hormonal, non-androgenic derivative of DHEA. 7-Keto DHEA has been shown to safely "rev up" the basal metabolic rate and thus "burn" calories more rapidly and continually throughout the day, even while resting, as well as inhibit the storage of fat within the body by controlling negative cortisol levels.

So why did we not include 7-Hydroxy DHEA

17b-triol metabolizes to 7-Hydroxy DHEA to some moderate degree on it's first pass so it was decided we would include 7-Keto DHEA for a more well rounded and balanced formula. With Retain all four major anti-cortisol agents will be generated. 17b-triol and 7-Keto DHEA are directly supplied in the formula. DHEA and 7-Hydroxy-DHEA are created from the actions of Relora and as a metabolite of 17b-triol. As a result, you get maximum cortisol coverage for all the major metabolites in the DHEA pathway. Each of which supplies its own unique benefit.

 

[lanky]

17b-triol designed by Anabolic Xtreme is a next generation leaning agent. It was developed to fight negative cortisol levels, keeping your body in a pro-anabolic state, to get you completely shredded. Stack with Hyperdrol? and Mass FX for the most effective Xtreme muscle building stack available today.

17b-triol - THE KING OF CORTISOL CONTROL


Cortisol is a hormone made in the adrenal glands of the human body. Increases in cortisol are caused by acute physical and mental stress. When cortisol is released by the body, it causes a breakdown of muscle protein leading to a spike in blood sugar levels. This is the body's horrible solution for creating energy during times of stress. The end result of these actions are an increase in appetite, weight gain and muscle catabolism (your body eating it's own muscle for energy). 17b-triol (B-Androstenetriol) is a metabolite of DHEA and has been used for years to boost the immune system and for its cortisol lower effects. B-androstenetriol is between 100 and 100,000 times more active than its DHEA precursor metabolites leaving this compound as the champion of cortisol control. 17b-triol works against inactive cortisone and muscle eating cortisol glucocorticoids. In a nutshell 17b-triol lowers the negative cortisol levels in your body. Less cortisol and fat = more lean muscle!


Relora

A natural proprietary blend of a patented (U.S. Patent No. US 6,582,735) extract of Magnolia officinalis and a patent-pending extract from Phellodendron amurense. Relora is a natural stress and cortisol management ingredient that helps control stress-related eating and has the added value of being non-sedating. During open human and clinical trials no significant side effects were reported. The trials measure cortisol and DHEA levels in 12 patients with mild to moderate mental and physical stress. Elevated cortisol levels and depressed DHEA levels are associated with chronic stress. A two-week regimen of Relora caused a significant increase in DHEA (227%) and a significant decrease in morning cortisol levels (37%).


7-Keto DHEA

7-Keto DHEA improves lean body mass by reducing cortisol and increasing testosterone-to-cortisol ratios enabling the body to build muscle in a growth promoting environment. It has also been shown to increase your body's ability to burn calories. It is a non-hormonal, non-androgenic derivative of DHEA. 7-Keto DHEA has been shown to safely "rev up" the basal metabolic rate and thus "burn" calories more rapidly and continually throughout the day, even while resting, as well as inhibit the storage of fat within the body by controlling negative cortisol levels.

So why did we not include 7-Hydroxy DHEA

17b-triol metabolizes to 7-Hydroxy DHEA to some moderate degree on it's first pass so it was decided we would include 7-Keto DHEA for a more well rounded and balanced formula. With Retain all four major anti-cortisol agents will be generated. 17b-triol and 7-Keto DHEA are directly supplied in the formula. DHEA and 7-Hydroxy-DHEA are created from the actions of Relora and as a metabolite of 17b-triol. As a result, you get maximum cortisol coverage for all the major metabolites in the DHEA pathway. Each of which supplies its own unique benefit.

there definitely was other version that were straight 17a methyl b-aet..i think ALRI and/or AX has some products in around 2006 of these