PSMF

[Paul2200]

What do you guys think about the PSMF (Protein Sparing Modified Fast)?

Here is Lyle's description from his board at bodyrecomposition:

The PSMF is an attempt to maximize fat loss while minimizing body protein loss. Basically they looked at starvation first, which generates scads of fat loss but you lose too much body protein. So someone thought "Hey, what if we just provide protein, we can keep calories ass low, maximize fat loss and hopefully minimize body protein loss." Over time they figured out that 1.5 g/kg lean body mass of protein and NOTHING ELSE (ok, you get some veggies and vitamins/minerals) did this. That is what a PSMF is, 1.5 g/kg lean body mass of protein, some veggies, vit/min supplements and NOTHING ELSE. No fat, no carbs (or as minimal as you can make them).

I have modified this further. Protein is adjusted based on level of leanness and activity. Get you fish oils at 6X1 g/day. But that's it.

(click Invalid Link Removed for the original thread)


EDIT: Thought his training recommendation might help as well:

Very simple workout. Full body, once every 3rd or 4th day, warmups and a couple of sets of 6-8. If you wanted to do a small amount of high rep work for glycogen depletion early on (to ramp up fat oxidation), that's fine. Basically it should be a maintenance workout which means cut volume and frequency down and maintain intensity (load on bar).

 

[meathead1987]

Lets work through this systematically.

I weigh 74kg, maintenance is 2700cals per day

1.5g/lb protein~110g prot per day=440cals per day

thats 2200cals below maintenance every day. So a loss of ~2lbs every 3days.

Without strong androgens, you will lose muscle if you do this for longer than a day or 2. Even with androgens, more than a couple of weeks on this would cause a pretty big protein loss.

 

[Scottyo]

If you understood the use of the PSMF, you would know it is for people with high bodyfat's to begin with. Lyle would recommend the UD2 for those close or below setpoint, but for those who are 20% or so and could afford to lose some fat fast, the PSMF has its place. If your bf levels are fairly high, your body will have little problem using most of that fat as energy first provided you have not been dieting for long and have significant amoutns to lose.

 

[meathead1987]

If you understood the use of the PSMF, you would know it is for people with high bodyfat's to begin with. Lyle would recommend the UD2 for those close or below setpoint, but for those who are 20% or so and could afford to lose some fat fast, the PSMF has its place. If your bf levels are fairly high, your body will have little problem using most of that fat as energy first provided you have not been dieting for long and have significant amoutns to lose.

Ahhh, why didn't you say that.lol.

Even though Leptin levels will be higher when you're 20%+ i still think a bit of muscle would be wasted if you stuck a this for too long. And it would be hell to stick to.

Have you read the FMAIF diet article in mind and muscle?

 

[Paul2200]

Lets work through this systematically.

I weigh 74kg, maintenance is 2700cals per day

1.5g/lb protein~110g prot per day=440cals per day

thats 2200cals below maintenance every day. So a loss of ~2lbs every 3days.

Without strong androgens, you will lose muscle if you do this for longer than a day or 2. Even with androgens, more than a couple of weeks on this would cause a pretty big protein loss.

That would be if you were fat and sedentary heh

For active individuals who are weight training etc (which would probably be most of us reading these forums), protein should be bumped up to 1.5g/lb.

So, assuming one is training, it would be as follows:
74kg * 2.2 * 1.5 = 245g prot per day = 980 cals per day + 6 fish oil caps (And this is assuming protein sources are EXACTLY 0g fat and 0g carbs)

Does this and what Scottyo wrote change anything? hehe

Anyway, just looking for some more opinions on the PSMF (and BTW, you sub-10%s can get the heck outta here haha)

 

[Scottyo]

I thought you wanted my advice? then you tell me to get the heck outta here. which is it?

as for the PSMF, I think it would be effective especially for the untrained individual with higher bodyfat levels. However, I do not think it is a long term strategy. Once things start progressing and you drop from say 25-18% bf or so (or even 15 if your naturally thinner, which would be strange to be so high anyways), then I would switch to something else. My thoughts would be to do the PSMF, then switch to a CKD, and then when you get to around 10% or so either do the UD2 or get in touch with bobo.
Thats a long term game plan for ya.

 

[JBlaze]

Paul- if you knew who i was, why didn't you come over and say whats up?

I thought u were some random dude who kept staring at me; i was about walk over there and kill you, lol. :hammer:

 

[Paul2200]

I thought you wanted my advice? then you tell me to get the heck outta here. which is it?

as for the PSMF, I think it would be effective especially for the untrained individual with higher bodyfat levels. However, I do not think it is a long term strategy. Once things start progressing and you drop from say 25-18% bf or so (or even 15 if your naturally thinner, which would be strange to be so high anyways), then I would switch to something else. My thoughts would be to do the PSMF, then switch to a CKD, and then when you get to around 10% or so either do the UD2 or get in touch with bobo.
Thats a long term game plan for ya.

Oh hahah j/k, didn't meant to discriminate. Did you use the PSMF to get sub-10%?

I'm probably around 18% right now (5'8", ~185).

PSMF >> CKD >> UD2? Sounds like a plan!

What's the best/most accurate method to check for sure if you're losing LBM?

 

[Paul2200]

Paul- if you knew who i was, why didn't you come over and say whats up?

I thought u were some random dude who kept staring at me; i was about walk over there and kill you, lol. :hammer:

LOL What??

I wasn't 100% sure... I've only seen that ONE picture of you in MB's thread but your face is blocked out.. so the only thing I know about you is your *ARMS!! hahahahh

So it seems you know me but I don't know you!

 

[JBlaze]

fair enough, lol. I had no idea you were even in SB yet, until manbeast told me as i was walking out of the gym.

Hit me up on AIM at "jonblaze639" or if not, give me a call i'll PM u my number. We should go lift or just chill soon.

 

[Scottyo]

Oh hahah j/k, didn't meant to discriminate. Did you use the PSMF to get sub-10%?

I'm probably around 18% right now (5'8", ~185).

PSMF >> CKD >> UD2? Sounds like a plan!

What's the best/most accurate method to check for sure if you're losing LBM?

Sorry have never used the PSMF and I have been around 10% or below for along while. Inever got above 12 or so even when really bulking or even during an extended stay in Italy. But I am an endo/meso by nature and do extensive HIIT cardio and always eat very clean so take that for what is worth.
I know the basics of it, and know people who have had success. Lyle doesn't put together BS and thats why I think it is effective for some. So I cant help with personal information, but can with other aspects.

 

[bpdaddy]

That would be if you were fat and sedentary heh

For active individuals who are weight training etc (which would probably be most of us reading these forums), protein should be bumped up to 1.5g/lb.

So, assuming one is training, it would be as follows:
74kg * 2.2 * 1.5 = 245g prot per day = 980 cals per day + 6 fish oil caps (And this is assuming protein sources are EXACTLY 0g fat and 0g carbs)

Does this and what Scottyo wrote change anything? hehe

Anyway, just looking for some more opinions on the PSMF (and BTW, you sub-10%s can get the heck outta here haha)

That's only assuming his 74kg is all LBM. Other ise you subtract your BF.

What about refeeds? How often for cat 1, 2, and 3?