Proviron vs????? (for SHBG)

[Bigwyatt]

Is there anything similar/comparable to proviron in terms of SHBG binding and freeing up testosterone? I know proviron makes all aas better during cycle too and increases libido, so I always add it, but it's expensive and looking to run it for 50mgs a day for 20 weeks. So just seeing if there is anything else out there to experiment on my ratz!

I would like people's actually experience and data.

Thank you everyone!

 

[ValiantThor08]

Is there anything similar/comparable to proviron in terms of SHBG binding and freeing up testosterone? I know proviron makes all aas better during cycle too and increases libido, so I always add it, but it's expensive and looking to run it for 50mgs a day for 20 weeks. So just seeing if there is anything else out there to experiment on my ratz!

I would like people's actually experience and data.

Thank you everyone!

If you are on TRT, SARMs typically lower SHBG as well.

 

[Bigwyatt]

I am on trt, but will be increasing the dose when I go back to the gym. Plus running EQ and GW. Maybe anadrol to kickstart. Also have superdrol, winstrol, DHB, epistane, mK677, S23, LGD, etc... Nice collection lol

 

[KvanH]

If you are on TRT, SARMs typically lower SHBG as well.

Yep. I had shbg well below range with Osta with only 15 mg / day.

 

[ANABOLICWRWLF]

Tbol?

 

[KvanH]

how does osta effect SHBG?

I don't know the mechanism, but I've heard it lowers it and that was the case for me, verified via blood test.

This is with with 3 mg / day study:

"In men, no statistically significant differences from placebo in change from baseline values for free testosterone, DHT, estradiol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), or LH were observed at any GTx-024 dose. However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo, −15.8 ± 7.9 nmol/L. The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone in subjects treated with 1 mg (P < 0.001) or 3 mg (P < 0.001) of GTx-024 compared to placebo, −6.4 ± 1.1 nmol/L and −7.4 ± 1.0 (Table 5)."

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Sarms in general:

"Early phase I and II trials have reported modest increments in fat-free mass and significant reductions in high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and SHBG."

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[Jinsun]

I don't know the mechanism, but I've heard it lowers it and that was the case for me, verified via blood test.

This is with with 3 mg / day study:

"In men, no statistically significant differences from placebo in change from baseline values for free testosterone, DHT, estradiol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), or LH were observed at any GTx-024 dose. However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo, −15.8 ± 7.9 nmol/L. The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone in subjects treated with 1 mg (P < 0.001) or 3 mg (P < 0.001) of GTx-024 compared to placebo, −6.4 ± 1.1 nmol/L and −7.4 ± 1.0 (Table 5)."

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Sarms in general:

"Early phase I and II trials have reported modest increments in fat-free mass and significant reductions in high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and SHBG."

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Interesting that it substantially lowered shbg but didn't effect free T. I'm kinda doubting this study. Only if TT dropped by a very significant margin, could this be possible. But, I kinda doubt that at 1 - 3 mg's ...

 

[Jinsun]

Is there anything similar/comparable to proviron in terms of SHBG binding and freeing up testosterone? I know proviron makes all aas better during cycle too and increases libido, so I always add it, but it's expensive and looking to run it for 50mgs a day for 20 weeks. So just seeing if there is anything else out there to experiment on my ratz!

I would like people's actually experience and data.

Thank you everyone!

For on cycle SHBG lowering you don't need proviron if you have other DHT's in the mix. Var, winy, dhbg, primo, etc. will all lower shbg, usually more then you'd want it lowered. (you need shbg, it's not just something that you want to get rid of completely)
So, dosing proviron just for this is nonsense, as is using it in every cycle regardless of what you are taking. That is some old school internet bro lore.

Proviron, or masteron for that matter, is useful if you are only on test or with tren specifically. But tbh, for use with a test only cycle, I don't see why you would want to ad proviron/mast. It's better adding something that will contribute more to the anabolic spectrum. Primo for instance. Mast is a very specific substance and you must have a specific need for it.

 

[KvanH]

Interesting that it substantially lowered shbg but didn't effect free T. I'm kinda doubting this study. Only if TT dropped by a very significant margin, could this be possible. But, I kinda doubt that at 1 - 3 mg's ...

Well those were just some quick Google results, so yeah I don't know. Wondered it myself too, but thought this explained it: "The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone.." There is the table 5 with the levels, but didn't read it.

 

[Jinsun]

Well those were just some quick Google results, so yeah I don't know. Wondered it myself too, but thought this explained it: "The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone.." There is the table 5 with the levels, but didn't read it.

Yeah, I said that the lowering of TT is the only reason for this. And I also said that it's weird that TT would be significantly lowered at such low dosages.

 

[KvanH]

Yeah, I said that the lowering of TT is the only reason for this. And I also said that it's weird that TT would be significantly lowered at such low dosages.

The numbers are in the quote. You do the math But yeah whatever, it seems to lower shbg very effectively, assuming what I ran was Osta. I had 8 nmol/l (15 - 95) after 6 weeks @ 15 mg.

 

[Whisky]

Yeah, I said that the lowering of TT is the only reason for this. And I also said that it's weird that TT would be significantly lowered at such low dosages.

I’ve seen osta being suppressive at 3mg bounced from the forums for a few years? Thought that study was commonly seen (normally mentioned as to why osta isn’t worth running)

 

[Whisky]

For on cycle SHBG lowering you don't need proviron if you have other DHT's in the mix. Var, winy, dhbg, primo, etc. will all lower shbg, usually more then you'd want it lowered. (you need shbg, it's not just something that you want to get rid of completely)
So, dosing proviron just for this is nonsense, as is using it in every cycle regardless of what you are taking. That is some old school internet bro lore.

Proviron, or masteron for that matter, is useful if you are only on test or with tren specifically. But tbh, for use with a test only cycle, I don't see why you would want to ad proviron/mast. It's better adding something that will contribute more to the anabolic spectrum. Primo for instance. Mast is a very specific substance and you must have a specific need for it.

agree with this although would throw a cruise in as a potential time for using proviron (whether you’d call it a cruise is up for debate) - 200mg test and proviron for 3 months between blasts I could see being more beneficial that test only to some people

 

[Bigwyatt]

Realistically I was going to run test around 500mgs and go north to 750mgs a week, run EQ at 900mgs the whole 16-20 weeks (depending how bloods look). Kick start with anadrol 75mgs ED for 2-3 weeks, run the GW the whole time as well. Ive always ran proviron as well, but perhaps it is just old school internet bro **** lol. Always was told it enhances the other aas and adds the libido gainz as well. I'm 30, 6'5 260lbs around 18% bf, but won't be starting anything besides my trt dose for a month and lose another 10lbs of fat. Running gear for 9 years now.

Would there be any point in using epistane, s23, superdrol, etc...??? I feel the test and eq and anadrol alone should be legit.

Extra opinions are always appreciated.

 

[Whisky]

Realistically I was going to run test around 500mgs and go north to 750mgs a week, run EQ at 900mgs the whole 16-20 weeks (depending how bloods look). Kick start with anadrol 75mgs ED for 2-3 weeks, run the GW the whole time as well. Ive always ran proviron as well, but perhaps it is just old school internet bro **** lol. Always was told it enhances the other aas and adds the libido gainz as well. I'm 30, 6'5 260lbs around 18% bf, but won't be starting anything besides my trt dose for a month and lose another 10lbs of fat. Running gear for 9 years now.

Would there be any point in using epistane, s23, superdrol, etc...??? I feel the test and eq and anadrol alone should be legit.

Extra opinions are always appreciated.

id add gh before another anabolic tbh.

Anadrol could be bumped up 100mg Ed if you tolerate it (I don’t seem to hold much water on it at all and aside from lethargy and appetite suppression 100mg is pretty side free for me).

but yeah generally I’d have something on the gh pathway as the next step if you wanted to add anything

 

[Bigwyatt]

I have MK677 from NL, but pretty sure it's bunk. Don't feel like dropping mad money on legit GH either.

 

[Jinsun]

Realistically I was going to run test around 500mgs and go north to 750mgs a week, run EQ at 900mgs the whole 16-20 weeks (depending how bloods look). Kick start with anadrol 75mgs ED for 2-3 weeks, run the GW the whole time as well. Ive always ran proviron as well, but perhaps it is just old school internet bro **** lol. Always was told it enhances the other aas and adds the libido gainz as well. I'm 30, 6'5 260lbs around 18% bf, but won't be starting anything besides my trt dose for a month and lose another 10lbs of fat. Running gear for 9 years now.

Would there be any point in using epistane, s23, superdrol, etc...??? I feel the test and eq and anadrol alone should be legit.

Extra opinions are always appreciated.

HCG, progesterone, that adds to the libido. Usually on cycle (if E2 and prolactin are ok and deca dick isn't the problem) it's the lack of progesterone that's to blame for bad libido. And yes, proviron does add to a test only cycle but not much to other cycles imo. It's a waste of money for you to just keep using on all cycles.

 

[Hyde]

My use of proviron has always been for bedroom effects periodically or to give some libido/function during PCT without affecting suppression.

But my understanding of it from a performance angle (aside from hardening/drying in final weeks before a bodybuilding show) is that it shines primarily in very high test focused cycles where that’s the predominant anabolic, and the month preceding winstrol usage. I don’t understand the second use at all; I have just heard tell of using it weeks prior if Winstrol is going to be the strength drug at the peak phase before comp for a weightclass athlete.

 

[Jinsun]

My use of proviron has always been for bedroom effects periodically or to give some libido/function during PCT without affecting suppression.

I tried this my last pct and it kept me suppressed and didn't help with libido at all due to this fact. That was at 50mg's ed.

 

[Hyde]

I tried this my last pct and it kept me suppressed and didn't help with libido at all due to this fact. That was at 50mg's ed.

That’s not what human studies show, nor my personal bloodwork, but we all know there are outliers. Using 25mg once or twice a day in PCT.

And there’s always a possibility that your proviron wasn’t real, but it’s a fairly signature feel so if you have used it multiple times you know what to expect.

 

[Jinsun]

That’s not what human studies show, nor my personal bloodwork, but we all know there are outliers.

Actually, that's what I thought, but then I went and looked at the studies and no, it's not really safe. I wouldn't advise anybody use it in pct.

My proviron was from hilma. Hilma has a good rep, but it's not phar ... And I can't distinguish proviron's effects on their own. Only ever used it on cycle, alongside other aas.

 

[Codybenz]

I’m gonna disagree with the hate on Proviron. I love it and makes me feel great and enhances libido while on every cycle I’ve ran it no matter the compounds. I always throw it in on the last half of cycle even though it’s expensive.

I’ve posted some articles and studies showing positive effects of proviron. It’s prescribed in some countries long term for men, and has been shown to have positive mood effects in even healthy men.

No I don’t feel like digging up those articles or even debating it, lol. Seems to be one of those some people love it and some people hate it drugs. To each his own. I personally love it.

 

[THOR 70]

I’m gonna disagree with the hate on Proviron. I love it and makes me feel great and enhances libido while on every cycle I’ve ran it no matter the compounds. I always throw it in on the last half of cycle even though it’s expensive.

I’ve posted some articles and studies showing positive effects of proviron. It’s prescribed in some countries long term for men, and has been shown to have positive mood effects in even healthy men.

No I don’t feel like digging up those articles or even debating it, lol. Seems to be one of those some people love it and some people hate it drugs. To each his own. I personally love it.

Isn’t there data on keeping sperm count/motility while on trt? I’m being lazy and not looking and figured you would know possibly.

 

[Codybenz]

Isn’t there data on keeping sperm count/motility while on trt? I’m being lazy and not looking and figured you would know possibly.

Yes, proviron is the only (that I know of) AAS class of drug that increases male fertility.

 

[Jinsun]

Yes, proviron is the only (that I know of) AAS class of drug that increases male fertility.

That's it's primary function and the reason for it's existence.

As has been noted thus far in this thread, proviron will be of most use for ya'll that are on trt. For use who cycle, it's really questionable. It is suppressive, so off cycle use is imo safe only up to 25mg for long term use, and even at that point, I would do bloods to check what's what. For shbg inhibition, I rather use arimistane, or dhaa, or some other otc products that are proven to work.

 

[THOR 70]

That's it's primary function and the reason for it's existence.

As has been noted thus far in this thread, proviron will be of most use for ya'll that are on trt. For use who cycle, it's really questionable. It is suppressive, so off cycle use is imo safe only up to 25mg for long term use, and even at that point, I would do bloods to check what's what. For shbg inhibition, I rather use arimistane, or dhaa, or some other otc products that are proven to work.

I’m glad I remembered the reason I take a low dose during my cruise. been one of those weeks.

 

[Mathb33]

Question to you guys... for people like me who are on trt, do you think it’s more beneficial to use proviron on cruise time / trt time or rather during blast time? Which one would be more beneficial?

 

[THOR 70]

Question to you guys... for people like me who are on trt, do you think it’s more beneficial to use proviron on cruise time / trt time or rather during blast time? Which one would be more beneficial?

Million ways to answer this but my gut would say it would be more beneficial to be on a lower dose for a longer period of time(cruise)

 

[KvanH]

Question to you guys... for people like me who are on trt, do you think it’s more beneficial to use proviron on cruise time / trt time or rather during blast time? Which one would be more beneficial?

I'd think it's like @Jinsun said. You probably run some other more anabolic dht compound as part of your blast stack, so the Proviron would be more usefull in your cruise. If you don't run any dht compound in your blast, then I would think it's up to your opinion which you like it more at. I think it's mostly for 'feels'.

 

[Whisky]

Question to you guys... for people like me who are on trt, do you think it’s more beneficial to use proviron on cruise time / trt time or rather during blast time? Which one would be more beneficial?

was reading down this thread and thinking the same question. I’d originally planned to use the prov in my stash with test and tren for my summer cut but like the idea of cruising on it as well. Then again I’ve posted a few times how I like to cruise on bio identical hormones only for health reasons, so it would make a mockery of that to suddenly throw it in

 

[Jinsun]

Then again I’ve posted a few times how I like to cruise on bio identical hormones only for health reasons, so it would make a mockery of that to suddenly throw it in

This were also my thoughts when I was thinking about ya'll using this when off cycle. I think if you cruise, if this is something you've decided to do, then ok, use proviron/mast (I would use mast prolly), but if you don't bc but trt/cycle, then no, stay off of anything that isn't a bioidentical replacement dose of test.

 

[Mathb33]

Thank for the response everyone. I never put any dhts in my off season cycles. You guys really touched an interesting point I’ve been wanting to add proviron in the future and now I’m lost. Should I add it on my bulking cycles or should I use it in my "off time". Hmmmmm

 

[Mathb33]

From a health perspective I guess during trt time would be more logical but from a POV that goal is to always get bigger and bigger I assume putting it into the cycles would be better?

 

[Whisky]

From a health perspective I guess during trt time would be more logical but from a POV that goal is to always get bigger and bigger I assume putting it into the cycles would be better?

lol, I’d have seen it totally the opposite (feel I may be missing what you are saying though).

running anything additional to test during trt/cruise periods would be more detrimental to health but potentially allow for more gains to be made/maintained in that ‘downtime’ whereas on cycle id suggest unless your running certain drugs (highlighted above) the proviron would be lost really, certainly wouldn’t be a player in stack with adrol, sdrol, var etc imo?

 

[KvanH]

lol, I’d have seen it totally the opposite (feel I may be missing what you are saying though).

running anything additional to test during trt/cruise periods would be more detrimental to health but potentially allow for more gains to be made/maintained in that ‘downtime’ whereas on cycle id suggest unless your running certain drugs (highlighted above) the proviron would be lost really, certainly wouldn’t be a player in stack with adrol, sdrol, var etc imo?

This is how I saw it too. Through a bit different reasoning. Gains first - would use Mast or Primo or some other dht derivative instead in blast. But also health first - would not 'tax' the body with it on cruise/trt.

 

[Codybenz]

P

was reading down this thread and thinking the same question. I’d originally planned to use the prov in my stash with test and tren for my summer cut but like the idea of cruising on it as well. Then again I’ve posted a few times how I like to cruise on bio identical hormones only for health reasons, so it would make a mockery of that to suddenly throw it in

Proviron is great with Tren. IMO

 

[Codybenz]

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Oh why not. Lots of good info proviron in this. Also shows to be very minimally suppressive if any after 1 year of steady use.

 

[THOR 70]

I guess the biggest question is if the pros out weight the cons of this molecule. What is the net effect. If it is positive then you could argue that a small dose on cruise, and a higher dose on blast would be protective or beneficial to testicular health.

 

[Hyde]

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Oh why not. Lots of good info proviron in this. Also shows to be very minimally suppressive if any after 1 year of steady use.

This is what I have read, and this older abstract alludes to Proviron not being any issue in PCT as well:

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^This was guys taking 100-150mg for 12 months. But out of 250 men, they determined it was not suppressive to FSH, LH or total TT except in those with high levels. Low or normal range men were not significantly effected.

Proviron does mess with lipids in some men. If you use it during cruises for extra libido, be paying attention to make sure lipids are still recovering fully from blast. I don’t see why you would though if you just need lowered SHBG or the like if on TRT. Boron is one of the cheapest minerals there is. 10-20mg a day for TRT guys will knock that down for pennies on the dollar compared to mesterolone.

 

[rebibbia]

This is what I have read, and this older abstract alludes to Proviron not being any issue in PCT as well:

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View attachment 202577

^This was guys taking 100-150mg for 12 months. But out of 250 men, they determined it was not suppressive to FSH, LH or total TT except in those with high levels. Low or normal range men were not significantly effected.

Proviron does mess with lipids in some men. If you use it during cruises for extra libido, be paying attention to make sure lipids are still recovering fully from blast. I don’t see why you would though if you just need lowered SHBG or the like if on TRT. Boron is one of the cheapest minerals there is. 10-20mg a day for TRT guys will knock that down for pennies on the dollar compared to mesterolone.

I didn't know the properties of boron! You gave us valuable information.
I was also thinking about adding proviron...and doing even more damage to my poor wallet
thanks

always study