no pct if going straight to hrt

orvise

Member
let me get this straight
if i go straight to my hrt i wont need nolva at all after a m1t cycle?
Thanks in advance,
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
If you are doing HRT, dont do M1T! Atleast thats the way i see it.
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Why do you say that? Bro if your on HRT no reason for post cycle. Def keep the nolva around though because of gyno issues.
 
all a "cycle" is is intense amounts of hormones, stacked or separate. If one is using HRT for their basic hormonal levels, adding m1t would probably give better results than a normal individual because they'll have "natural" levels of test as well as the extra goodies from the m1t.

ManBeast
 
hmmm
what are you using for HRT, because if it's a long-acting testosterone then you'll have a crash period while the hormones build up again. You might want to look into getting something transdermal (4AD) to use for the first 2-4 weeks you are starting your HRT again.

ManBeast
 
Androgel is very quick acting, i'd say 2 weeks on the 4AD should be just fine.

ManBeast
 
yes, with 2 weeks of 4AD left, start your HRT again, that way you guarantee no crash.

ManBeast
 
Please correct me if im wrong.

He needs to stay off anything during PCT (including HRT) to at least get his levels back up to normal (his personal baseline) before adding any exogeneous hormones, right? Are you recommending 4ad and Androgel during PCT? This is confusing me, 4ad and androgel will further his natty suppression.

M1T is very suppressive after a only few days and any exogeneous hormones will only further suppression.

I think he needs to stay off anything including HRT and do a proper pct. Then he can raise his levels to a safe range without suppression.

If he has low test levels than suppression and recovery can be worse. His levels may come back very slowly and any hormones would just cause further suppression, atleast till he is normal again.

But you guys may know something i dont about HRT, so flame at will.
 
jminis said:
Why do you say that? Bro if your on HRT no reason for post cycle. Def keep the nolva around though because of gyno issues.
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What? No reason for post cycle?

If you suppress yourself, you wont return properly unless you do PCT?

HRT only raises levels slightly, not enough to suppress, but exogeneous hormones can impede recovery, so he needs PCT atleast until he is normal. and then he can resume HRT safely.

You guys are talking about bridging testosterone with more testosterone. Do you expect him to ever be normal again?

Correct me if im wrong.
 
I still stand by my original advice, that if he's going to be on HRT for the rest of his life, then there is never a need for post cycle, since all hormones will be exogenous. BUT if he's ever planning on not being on HRT, to come off and do a proper full recovery post-cycle before going back onto HRT.

ManBeast
 
I think he should ask his doctor.

HRT is supposed to be regulated and monitored so not to raise baseline above normal. So suppression is not a problem until you add m1t in the mix. Now his HRT is all fucked up.

Correct me if im wrong. Ive been wrong before.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
I think he should ask his doctor.

HRT is supposed to be regulated and monitored so not to raise baseline above normal. So suppression is not a problem until you add m1t in the mix. Now his HRT is all fucked up.

Correct me if im wrong. Ive been wrong before.
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You are wrong, exogenous hormones supress endogenous hormones, period.
 
ex_banana-eater said:
You are wrong, exogenous hormones supress endogenous hormones, period.
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EBE is correct. We've actually been discussing the various options in this thread: Invalid Link Removed .... (feel free to maul and destroy whatever my suggestions were over in that one) but basically orvise does not plan on coming off of HRT. In this case, there is no reason to do a PCT because instead of bringing up natural test levels he's returning to the HRT level. Return to a low level natural test baseline is rather illogical if he has no intention of stopping HRT, as it is simply going to be a crash for himself, potential loss of gains, and all the other wonderful things that go with that. Doing PCT would make sense if at some point along the line orvise *did* intend to stop HRT, in which case he would not want to be on it for a prolonged period of time as that just makes recovering much more difficult.

I'm agreeing with MB on this one, and I'd love to hear Bobo and the other mod's thoughts on this(and what was said in the other thread.)
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
What? No reason for post cycle?

If you suppress yourself, you wont return properly unless you do PCT?

HRT only raises levels slightly, not enough to suppress, but exogeneous hormones can impede recovery, so he needs PCT atleast until he is normal. and then he can resume HRT safely.

You guys are talking about bridging testosterone with more testosterone. Do you expect him to ever be normal again?Correct me if im wrong.
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Couple of points on this one. First, no we do not expect him to be normal again as he stated in the original thread that this stemmed from, he did not plan on stopping HRT. Second, just by being on HRT he has already suppressed himself, hence there is no PCT to normalize, as that would be a PCT to recover from the HRT in addition to the recent cycle. Its not a bridging at all, as the HRT level of test is to be considered his baseline. He just gets the option of going straight back to that baseline in minimal time, as opposed to normal range individuals who go through the long process of recovering natural test.
 
No, that's what HCG is for. Go read the link I posted above and see *exactly* what I said the suggestions/options were. Then post back any questions you have left.
 
Hes not on hcg. At least he didnt mention it.

Dont get defensive. I just dont see the difference between suppression with test, m1t 4ad and the suppression with androgel. They are one in the same.

But very very low doses of androgel can raise baseline without suppression if monitored and administerd properly.

We all know you can recover faster by eliminating all exogeneous hormones for a period before resuming therapy. A little androgel will slow his already slow test production in the time it needs to recover the most.

I may be wrong.
 
1) Not being defensive, certainly hope it didn't appear that way. And no, I didn't say he was on HCG, I said to read what I said were the suggestions. Assuming he follows through on never-ending HRT and wanted to keep testicular size, he would need to use HCG (which I'm 99% sure I said in the other thread)

2) I have seen no evidence(and am searching right now, trying hard to dig up studies as I speak) that you can "raise" baseline without suppression. Assuming this is impossible, then the suggestions are as stands.

3) Again, assuming you cannot raise baseline and I haven't just missed the most blatantly obvious studies, then there really is no significant difference (with respect to what is being discussed now) between suppressing with m1t, 4ad, or test. The only reason, in this instance, that it is being suggested that he not PCT is because he has already suppressed himself with HRT, continued with M1T, and now has an option to return to an average test level in a hurry. (Not endogenous levels, but exogenous)

If ya have those studies handy, please throw 'em up as I'm blind as a bat. :)

EDIT: Fixed answer 3, I forgot the rest of the thought the first time through.
 
I am just talking out of my ass.

I dont have any studies, but i am looking ;)

i just thought this was the way androgel worked. Barely a little testosterone, not exceeding normal levels. So people with low test can have a normal, non testicular atrophying, life.

He did not mention his schedule of HRT and it would be nice to know what all it entails.

This same guy has another thread just like this going as we speak. It is getting the same results.
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hrt is androgel 5g ed
i have no signs of gyno
i think ill just keep the nolva incase
also my balls havent shrunk at all
 
the way im understanding this is basically, youre going from a higher blood level of test [on cycle] back to a lower level of test just resuming the hrt and if you encounter any atrophe use some hcg. also just keep some nolva onhand just in case of some gyno ariseing from the high "e" after cycle.

maybe if the "e" is anticipated to be high afterwards maybe some armidex durein cycle then resume hrt......please correct me if im way off base.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Hes not on hcg.
But very very low doses of androgel can raise baseline without suppression if monitored and administerd properly.
QUOTE]

No. Not doses that duplicate normal levels. 2.5mg of anavar per day causes near-complete supression.
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I may be missing something, and no, I did not read the other thread yet, but when someone comes off a cycle, their estrogen levels will be higher. Just because you do not have to raise natty test (due to the HRT) does not imply that you do not need to reduce the estrogen back to "normal" to keep that from being a problem. Therefore, it makes sense to me to use nolva for PCT unless there is some compound in the HRT designed to suppress estrogen.
 
i thought when your body detcs to much test upsetting the balance of test/ estrogen then production of test halts and estragen becoms dominent , so i was thinkin add some armidex to the cycle reducing "e" then go to hrt .. will it work ,i dont know
 
Cogar said:
I may be missing something, and no, I did not read the other thread yet, but when someone comes off a cycle, their estrogen levels will be higher. Just because you do not have to raise natty test (due to the HRT) does not imply that you do not need to reduce the estrogen back to "normal" to keep that from being a problem. Therefore, it makes sense to me to use nolva for PCT unless there is some compound in the HRT designed to suppress estrogen.
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Most people on HRT utilize arimidex throughout (not constantly, but periodically as prescribed by the doc.) This helps with the e, but should someone not be taking their anti-e in conjunction with HRT then it is sensible to run nolva and arim when returning to HRT in order to bring things back under control.
 
well, i didnt know people on hrt use armidex periodically , i just thout it migh be a good idea. learn more everyday
 
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