Unanswered New Prohormone HydroxyProgestins 5aOHP and 1,4 OHP potent Androgenics?

stimtron

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • Best Answer
Has anyone used these? They appear to be the latest prohormone anabolics. These seem to be the 2 main forms out there. I'll post a breakdown of what I found.

"As the DEA continues to schedule more and more illegal steroids and take them off the market and SARMs are effectively off the market (illegal SARMs are drugs under development that some companies were selling as dietary supplements) the market is hungry for new items to help boost androgen levels and reduce estrogen.

If you haven’t read the DEA is trying to schedule 4 more 19 carbon steroids (what separates progestins from androgens) which means the last of the illegal steroids being sold as prohormones are being removed from the market.

HOW HYDROXY PROGESTINS WORK

HydroxyProgestins are best written “17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol” which is the nomenclature for 1,4 OHP.
  • 17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol – 1,4 OHP
  • 17beta {3ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol – 5aOHP
HydroxyProgestins are another prohormone pathway to increasing your androgen levels (testosterone, 1-Testosterone etc…). They work on two distinct enzyme pathways that are different from DHEA based prohormones like 4-DHEA, 5-DHEA and 1-DHEA.

Unlike DHEA prohormones which work with 3bHSD or 17bHSD, progestins use an enzyme called 17,20 Lyase which cleaves the 17 position side chain into a keto group and then ultimately into a hydroxyl which is the active steroid.

Image 1 shows the enzyme conversion pathway to active androgens and compares DHEA based prohormones to Progestin based prohormones:

HydroxyProgestinProhormonesdocx


In addition to the standard accepted prohormone conversion route for progestins there seems to be a direct pathway that is currently “unknown” but allows for direct conversion to the C17 Hydroxy androgens that we want (1-Testosterone in this case, but also Stanolone and Boldenone using 5aOHP and 1,4-OHP respectively).

HydroxyProgestinProhormonesdocx.2


These pathways show the amazing amount of pathways that can happen to natural steroids and steroids of all shape and kind. Two quotes from the studies are of interest:

“While DHT is produced from cholesterol through the conventional “frontdoor” pathway via testosterone, recent studies have provided compelling evidence for the presence of an alternative “backdoor” pathway to DHT without testosterone intermediacy. This backdoor pathway is known to exist in the tammar wallaby pouch young testis and the immature mouse testis, and has been suggested to be present in the human.” – Fukami M

“The elevated ratios of pdiol to the Δ4 and Δ5 pathway metabolites as well as the higher androsterone to etiocholanolone ratio in patients with 21-OHD indicate postnatal activity of the backdoor pathway with maximum activity during early infancy. Our data provide new insights into the pathophysiology of androgen biosynthesis of 21-OHD.” – Kamrath C

What this tells us is that there are numerous not yet understood pathways for the conversion of C21 steroids directly into active androgens and in this case for example 1,4-HydroxyProgesterone (converts to boldenone) may also be a prohormone directly to 1-Testosterone which is a nice bonus pathway.

WRAPPING IT UP

HydroxyProgestins are the newest class of prohormones and are mild in side effects but could have great effects on boosting our natural androgen levels like 1-Testosterone, Boldenone or even Stanolone which are the hormones we desire for growth.

Progestin based hormones like Tetrahydrogestrinone (THG) and YK-11 (SARM) can provide amazing benefits for males looking to add mass in addition to a proper diet and exercise program. Of course the real “muscle builder” is the hard work and food, but adding to our androgen pools certainly help. It appears that progestin based hormones may act as natural myostatin inhibitors in addition to adding to our natural androgen levels and may also increase transcription via increased messenger RNA activity.

Don’t be afraid of these new class of prohormones and they can be taken safely by men over 21 who are in good health but you should always check with a healthcare practitioner prior to starting any diet and exercise program with supplements.

The conversion directly to Stanolone and other 5aReduced steroids may be the main reason that these steroids are anecdotally shown to reduce gyno symptoms and feel good prohormones."



"5aOHP (17beta {3ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol.)

5aOHP (chemical name: 17beta-{1-Ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol) is an anabolic progestin that converts to stanolone, which is better known as dihydrotestosterone or DHT for short. This causes 5aOHP to act like Winstrol because it helps achieve a lean look and adds mass without aggression. However, there is one major difference between winstrol and 5aOHP – the latter one will not cause any hair loss that is commonly associated with the use of winstrol.

5aOHP

Fig 1. 5aOHP Chemical Structure


1,4 OHP (17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol)

1,4-OHP (chemical name: 17beta-{1-Ketoethyl}-androsta-1, 4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol) is a precursor to boldenone, so just like equipoise this particular prohormone will increase appetite and will enhance recovery. Due to the appetite increase, 1,4-OHP is often used in a bulking stack, where it will help build lean mass without adding significant water quickly when compared to something like 4-Andro. All in all, this prohormone is highly anabolic and mildly androgenic, which will contribute to a nice increase in vascularity. Besides, it is also very easy on the joints."



I've seen very limited info but only a few companies make them. They don't seem like my first go to but something interesting to test out at some point.
 
Last edited:
hairygrandpa

hairygrandpa

Legend
Awards
5
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
In for info.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
They’ve been around a couple of years. I haven’t seen anyone using them to any great effect. I’d imagine the 1,4 would be decent for EPO production regardless of anabolic strength.
 

Anabaholic

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I feel like I remember LG sciences and maybe even liquid labs making 5aohp a while back, but I've never heard any reports from people who used them and I haven't seen them available in a long time.
 

stimtron

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • Best Answer
I feel like I remember LG sciences and maybe even liquid labs making 5aohp a while back, but I've never heard any reports from people who used them and I haven't seen them available in a long time.
They still make it and a handful of other companies. I'm doing a cycle now so I'll have to wait to consider trying them later on but I like knowing all the options out there. Definitely not my first pick for a cycle.
 

Anabaholic

Active member
Awards
2
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
Maybe as a stacker for otc prohormones.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Centurion Labz M17 Alpha has M1A and 1,4ohP.

I’ve known two guys who stacked it with War Demonz (DMZ and Hexadrone)

One quit fast, one loved it and gained a shitload of dry weight.
 

stimtron

Member
Awards
3
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • Best Answer
Centurion Labz M17 Alpha has M1A and 1,4ohP.

I’ve known two guys who stacked it with War Demonz (DMZ and Hexadrone)

One quit fast, one loved it and gained a shitload of dry weight.
Do you have any thoughts on M1A? I have not come across it yet? Looks like it's METHYL-1-ETIOCHOLENOLOL-EPIETIOCHOLANOLONE, is supposedly active, and converts into Methyl-1-testosterone .
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Do you have any thoughts on M1A? I have not come across it yet? Looks like it's METHYL-1-ETIOCHOLENOLOL-EPIETIOCHOLANOLONE, is supposedly active, and converts into Methyl-1-testosterone .
Sure, I’m taking it right now. Just entered week 3.

It’s good. 60mg is the dose.
 
Old Witch

Old Witch

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
  • RockStar
  • Best Answer
Nice. What made you go for this vs other prohormones? Brand?
It’s Methyl 1AD. 1AD was the only prohormone that worked as well as it did for the time... that, methylated, just seemed too good to pass up.

And yes, test ape, having some PRE M1A.

Myself, having some (brand not disclosed) M1A.

And 600mg/wk homebrew testosterone.
 

Dcoopair

Member
Awards
1
  • First Up Vote
Helladrol from innovative labs has : 17beta-(1-ketoethyl)-Delta-1... Can't find any info on this
 
MrFlexo

MrFlexo

New member
Awards
0
Has anyone used these? They appear to be the latest prohormone anabolics. These seem to be the 2 main forms out there. I'll post a breakdown of what I found.

"As the DEA continues to schedule more and more illegal steroids and take them off the market and SARMs are effectively off the market (illegal SARMs are drugs under development that some companies were selling as dietary supplements) the market is hungry for new items to help boost androgen levels and reduce estrogen.

If you haven’t read the DEA is trying to schedule 4 more 19 carbon steroids (what separates progestins from androgens) which means the last of the illegal steroids being sold as prohormones are being removed from the market.

HOW HYDROXY PROGESTINS WORK

HydroxyProgestins are best written “17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol” which is the nomenclature for 1,4 OHP.
  • 17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol – 1,4 OHP
  • 17beta {3ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol – 5aOHP
HydroxyProgestins are another prohormone pathway to increasing your androgen levels (testosterone, 1-Testosterone etc…). They work on two distinct enzyme pathways that are different from DHEA based prohormones like 4-DHEA, 5-DHEA and 1-DHEA.

Unlike DHEA prohormones which work with 3bHSD or 17bHSD, progestins use an enzyme called 17,20 Lyase which cleaves the 17 position side chain into a keto group and then ultimately into a hydroxyl which is the active steroid.

Image 1 shows the enzyme conversion pathway to active androgens and compares DHEA based prohormones to Progestin based prohormones:

HydroxyProgestinProhormonesdocx


In addition to the standard accepted prohormone conversion route for progestins there seems to be a direct pathway that is currently “unknown” but allows for direct conversion to the C17 Hydroxy androgens that we want (1-Testosterone in this case, but also Stanolone and Boldenone using 5aOHP and 1,4-OHP respectively).

HydroxyProgestinProhormonesdocx.2


These pathways show the amazing amount of pathways that can happen to natural steroids and steroids of all shape and kind. Two quotes from the studies are of interest:

“While DHT is produced from cholesterol through the conventional “frontdoor” pathway via testosterone, recent studies have provided compelling evidence for the presence of an alternative “backdoor” pathway to DHT without testosterone intermediacy. This backdoor pathway is known to exist in the tammar wallaby pouch young testis and the immature mouse testis, and has been suggested to be present in the human.” – Fukami M

“The elevated ratios of pdiol to the Δ4 and Δ5 pathway metabolites as well as the higher androsterone to etiocholanolone ratio in patients with 21-OHD indicate postnatal activity of the backdoor pathway with maximum activity during early infancy. Our data provide new insights into the pathophysiology of androgen biosynthesis of 21-OHD.” – Kamrath C

What this tells us is that there are numerous not yet understood pathways for the conversion of C21 steroids directly into active androgens and in this case for example 1,4-HydroxyProgesterone (converts to boldenone) may also be a prohormone directly to 1-Testosterone which is a nice bonus pathway.

WRAPPING IT UP

HydroxyProgestins are the newest class of prohormones and are mild in side effects but could have great effects on boosting our natural androgen levels like 1-Testosterone, Boldenone or even Stanolone which are the hormones we desire for growth.

Progestin based hormones like Tetrahydrogestrinone (THG) and YK-11 (SARM) can provide amazing benefits for males looking to add mass in addition to a proper diet and exercise program. Of course the real “muscle builder” is the hard work and food, but adding to our androgen pools certainly help. It appears that progestin based hormones may act as natural myostatin inhibitors in addition to adding to our natural androgen levels and may also increase transcription via increased messenger RNA activity.

Don’t be afraid of these new class of prohormones and they can be taken safely by men over 21 who are in good health but you should always check with a healthcare practitioner prior to starting any diet and exercise program with supplements.

The conversion directly to Stanolone and other 5aReduced steroids may be the main reason that these steroids are anecdotally shown to reduce gyno symptoms and feel good prohormones."



"5aOHP (17beta {3ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol.)

5aOHP (chemical name: 17beta-{1-Ketoethyl}-androstane-3-one, 17a-ol) is an anabolic progestin that converts to stanolone, which is better known as dihydrotestosterone or DHT for short. This causes 5aOHP to act like Winstrol because it helps achieve a lean look and adds mass without aggression. However, there is one major difference between winstrol and 5aOHP – the latter one will not cause any hair loss that is commonly associated with the use of winstrol.

5aOHP

Fig 1. 5aOHP Chemical Structure


1,4 OHP (17beta {3ketoethyl}-androsta-1,4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol)

1,4-OHP (chemical name: 17beta-{1-Ketoethyl}-androsta-1, 4-diene-3-one, 17a-ol) is a precursor to boldenone, so just like equipoise this particular prohormone will increase appetite and will enhance recovery. Due to the appetite increase, 1,4-OHP is often used in a bulking stack, where it will help build lean mass without adding significant water quickly when compared to something like 4-Andro. All in all, this prohormone is highly anabolic and mildly androgenic, which will contribute to a nice increase in vascularity. Besides, it is also very easy on the joints."



I've seen very limited info but only a few companies make them. They don't seem like my first go to but something interesting to test out at some point.

Do you still see products with these compounds 5aOHP and 1,4 OHP? I’ve been looking all over. Very hard to find.
 
MrFlexo

MrFlexo

New member
Awards
0
I just ordered the new Vintage Muscle Equi-Mass sublingual 1,4-OHP. Anxious to see how it goes.
Nice! Yes please let us know. The dose looks good but it doesn’t say how many doses it contains. Does it say on the physical bottle?
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Nice! Yes please let us know. The dose looks good but it doesn’t say how many doses it contains. Does it say on the physical bottle?
Supposed to arrive tomorrow, but they said it's 4 weeks worth at 2ml/day.
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Going to be a bit before I get started Have to finish up my current Dermacrine & 1andro cycle + pct and give my system a little time to relax.
Still deciding if I'll run it alone to get a good idea of what it's actually doing or possibly stack with 1andro or epiandro.
 
MrFlexo

MrFlexo

New member
Awards
0
Going to be a bit before I get started Have to finish up my current Dermacrine & 1andro cycle + pct and give my system a little time to relax.
Still deciding if I'll run it alone to get a good idea of what it's actually doing or possibly stack with 1andro or epiandro.
Ok, please let us know. I've been wanting to try 14OHP, but very difficult to find the right dose that's not expensive. It looks like there's also 4 andro in it too so i think some epiandro would be great with it to level out the wetness
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Ok, please let us know. I've been wanting to try 14OHP, but very difficult to find the right dose that's not expensive. It looks like there's also 4 andro in it too so i think some epiandro would be great with it to level out the wetness
I'm leaning toward the epi
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
I'm about a week away from starting. I'll try to keep everyone updated as it goes.

I'll be running:
-2ml of equi-mass/day.
-1.5ml of Alpha Gainz Stano TD epi/day.

The plan is to split the equi 1ml in the morning and 1ml late afternoon/evening with pre-worout and split the stano 1ml in the morning and .5ml in the late afternoon/evening with pre-workout.

I have enough of each to do 8 weeks. I'll decide during week 4 if I'm going the distance or cutting it into 2 runs.
 

lanky

Member
Awards
0
i tried a 5aOHP and 1,4 ohp product a few years back,,did not notice anything
 
GQdaLEGEND

GQdaLEGEND

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
I'm about a week away from starting. I'll try to keep everyone updated as it goes.

I'll be running:
-2ml of equi-mass/day.
-1.5ml of Alpha Gainz Stano TD epi/day.

The plan is to split the equi 1ml in the morning and 1ml late afternoon/evening with pre-worout and split the stano 1ml in the morning and .5ml in the late afternoon/evening with pre-workout.

I have enough of each to do 8 weeks. I'll decide during week 4 if I'm going the distance or cutting it into 2 runs.
sorry if i missed it in earlier thread .. is the equi-mass 30 or 60ml ? hope you say 60 , just checked the hefty price lol

best of luck on the cycle and subb'd in for the results .. i remember this back in 2017-2018 but never took off
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
sorry if i missed it in earlier thread .. is the equi-mass 30 or 60ml ? hope you say 60 , just checked the hefty price lol

best of luck on the cycle and subb'd in for the results .. i remember this back in 2017-2018 but never took off
It is 60ml. They recommend 2ml/day. I was able to catch one bottle during the initial launch and got my second one ordered during their black friday sale so they were a little under $100 each... Still pretty pricey, but I've heard good reviews and figured it was worth a try.
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Got impatient waiting on the epi to be delivered, so I started with just the Equi-Mass today. First impression is that it BURNS under the tongue. Took 2ml about 30 minutes before the the gym. Didn't notice anything, but didn't really expect to on the first day of a PH.
 
GQdaLEGEND

GQdaLEGEND

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Got impatient waiting on the epi to be delivered, so I started with just the Equi-Mass today. First impression is that it BURNS under the tongue. Took 2ml about 30 minutes before the the gym. Didn't notice anything, but didn't really expect to on the first day of a PH.
Haha yup usually happens .. best of luck on the cycle

And by epi you mean epistane ? If so what dosage of that you had in mind ?
 
Renew1

Renew1

Legend
Awards
4
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • RockStar
Haha yup usually happens .. best of luck on the cycle

And by epi you mean epistane ? If so what dosage of that you had in mind ?
Epiandro TD. 100mg am. 50mg pm
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Stano came in today. It's a rest day, but I went ahead and applied 2ml with my evening dose of Equi-Mass.
After a little further research, I've decided to up my Stano dose to 2ml in the morning... In the afternoon/evening it's 2ml on gym days and 1ml on rest days.
It's probably completely placebo, but I think I'm already feeling a bit of a mood/energy boost with the stano.
The Equi-Mass still tastes like **** and as with all Alpha Gainz products, the Stano went on easy and dried quickly.
 
Hrddy

Hrddy

New member
Awards
0
Update...
I started my pct a few days ago and I'm pretty happy with the results. I'm horrible at taking before after pics and don't do bloods. I do keep an eye on the scale and occasionally measure my arms.

-Prior to the cycle I could usually pump my upper arms to 17 3/8", but since the last two weeks of the cycle I've been consistently hitting 17 7/8" and broke 18" a couple times.
-I've maintained my weight at ~220
-Added 5-10lbs to my rep weight on almost every lift.
-Increased overall muscle fullness, but especially noticeable in my chest, tris, and traps
-I got used to the taste and it became bearable... Actually enjoyable after a while

The only negatives are:
-I saw a slight loss of "firmness" downstairs that has already picked back up since starting Sustain Alpha
-I've lost the little bit of definition I had in my upper abs... But that is most likely attributed to my increased caloric intake during the cycle.
 

Mematt1993

New member
Awards
0
Update...
I started my pct a few days ago and I'm pretty happy with the results. I'm horrible at taking before after pics and don't do bloods. I do keep an eye on the scale and occasionally measure my arms.

-Prior to the cycle I could usually pump my upper arms to 17 3/8", but since the last two weeks of the cycle I've been consistently hitting 17 7/8" and broke 18" a couple times.
-I've maintained my weight at ~220
-Added 5-10lbs to my rep weight on almost every lift.
-Increased overall muscle fullness, but especially noticeable in my chest, tris, and traps
-I got used to the taste and it became bearable... Actually enjoyable after a while

The only negatives are:
-I saw a slight loss of "firmness" downstairs that has already picked back up since starting Sustain Alpha
-I've lost the little bit of definition I had in my upper abs... But that is most likely attributed to my increased caloric intake during the cycle.
By firmness downstairs you mean?
 

Mematt1993

New member
Awards
0
Nothing is worth my parts not functioning correctly
 
BCseacow83

BCseacow83

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Oh...im gonna stop taking it then...i need my parts to work correctly
That is a potential side effect of ANY substance that works via the androgen receptor. Now some are worse than others but even good ole fashioned testosterone has PLENTY of people complaining about libido and "mechanical ability" issues with varying doses and duration of use.

I will say this, based on my personal history: When I was young, up until about age 30ish, NOTHING negatively impacted me down there. I could use an oral like M1T or SD all by itself with ZERO issues. Fast-forward to present day and the 40 year old me has issues with anything that is not testosterone at 100-200mg a week ONLY.

If you are concerned with a slight temporary decline in ability or performance I would steer CLEAR of all androgens and related substances.
 

LucasBagoDoce

Member
Awards
0
That is a potential side effect of ANY substance that works via the androgen receptor. Now some are worse than others but even good ole fashioned testosterone has PLENTY of people complaining about libido and "mechanical ability" issues with varying doses and duration of use.

I will say this, based on my personal history: When I was young, up until about age 30ish, NOTHING negatively impacted me down there. I could use an oral like M1T or SD all by itself with ZERO issues. Fast-forward to present day and the 40 year old me has issues with anything that is not testosterone at 100-200mg a week ONLY.

If you are concerned with a slight temporary decline in ability or performance I would steer CLEAR of all androgens and related substances.
Would you mind elaborating on the “some are worse than others” part?
Would like to hear which ones affect that the least from someone who has experimented with different compounds…
 

Mematt1993

New member
Awards
0
That is a potential side effect of ANY substance that works via the androgen receptor. Now some are worse than others but even good ole fashioned testosterone has PLENTY of people complaining about libido and "mechanical ability" issues with varying doses and duration of use.

I will say this, based on my personal history: When I was young, up until about age 30ish, NOTHING negatively impacted me down there. I could use an oral like M1T or SD all by itself with ZERO issues. Fast-forward to present day and the 40 year old me has issues with anything that is not testosterone at 100-200mg a week ONLY.

If you are concerned with a slight temporary decline in ability or performance I would steer CLEAR of all androgens and related substances.
Ive used epiandro and had no issues at all also have used other stronger things and still no problems but never a boldenone p.h so I don't know what to expect with a boldenone precursor
 

Mematt1993

New member
Awards
0
I was stupid the first time N decided to jump right into test tren E deca and masteron All at the same time and that definitely affected me after I came off the masteron but i was told that was because of prolactin
 
BCseacow83

BCseacow83

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
  • RockStar
Would you mind elaborating on the “some are worse than others” part?
Would like to hear which ones affect that the least from someone who has experimented with different compounds…

On AVERAGE, based on user feedback, the 19-nors seem to be the worst offenders with deca/npp being the worst, tren being a love/hate with it either ramping up performance/endurance in the bedroom OR killing things OR increasing performance and then after a certain number of weeks it kills it. Trest seems to be similar in it's ability to increase/decrease depending on user and then of course you have the estrogen management issues and the drugs used for that AI/SERMS and the side effects those bring.

Test at doses that don't cause too high of estrogen(user dependent) and don't require an AI are usually positive or neutral. Even with "higher" doses that do require an AI the users response to said AI and then the delicate balance of not too high of E or low and then the ratio of E to T plays a role.

DHT's, such as mast and primo and epiandro, seem to be the most positive for libido and erections BUT seem to also lower either estrogen or act like a SERM in some users and then too low of E can kill the libido/erections once again USER, DOSE, DURATION dependent.

I think the fatter you are the worse all these things work and the greater the potential side effects as well.

I personally use my scripted TRT test these days with various epiandro products tossed in here and there:
Muscle Addiction
CEL
XPG Gels
Apex Alchemy
Iconic Formulations
Alpha Gainz
Hi-tech


All of these companies make great quality stano/epiandro products that I have used and enjoyed.
 

Mematt1993

New member
Awards
0
So I'm on a cycle now of these two hydroxy progestins with 6 keto progesterone started a week ago and I'm already starting to notice my appetite increase and very slight muscle hardness increase..its only been alittle over a week so we will see what happens in just preying my downstairs function remains otherwise I'm dropping immediately
 
KvanH

KvanH

Well-known member
Awards
4
  • First Up Vote
  • Best Answer
  • Established
  • RockStar
On AVERAGE, based on user feedback, the 19-nors seem to be the worst offenders with deca/npp being the worst, tren being a love/hate with it either ramping up performance/endurance in the bedroom OR killing things OR increasing performance and then after a certain number of weeks it kills it. Trest seems to be similar in it's ability to increase/decrease depending on user and then of course you have the estrogen management issues and the drugs used for that AI/SERMS and the side effects those bring.

Test at doses that don't cause too high of estrogen(user dependent) and don't require an AI are usually positive or neutral. Even with "higher" doses that do require an AI the users response to said AI and then the delicate balance of not too high of E or low and then the ratio of E to T plays a role.

DHT's, such as mast and primo and epiandro, seem to be the most positive for libido and erections BUT seem to also lower either estrogen or act like a SERM in some users and then too low of E can kill the libido/erections once again USER, DOSE, DURATION dependent.

I think the fatter you are the worse all these things work and the greater the potential side effects as well.

I personally use my scripted TRT test these days with various epiandro products tossed in here and there:
Muscle Addiction
CEL
XPG Gels
Apex Alchemy
Iconic Formulations
Alpha Gainz
Hi-tech


All of these companies make great quality stano/epiandro products that I have used and enjoyed.
Well summarized 👍
 

JD284

Member
Awards
2
  • First Up Vote
  • Established
So I'm on a cycle now of these two hydroxy progestins with 6 keto progesterone started a week ago and I'm already starting to notice my appetite increase and very slight muscle hardness increase..its only been alittle over a week so we will see what happens in just preying my downstairs function remains otherwise I'm dropping immediately
Is it ATS Labs Beast by any chance? Was going to pick up a few bottles and stack it with alpha stano
 

Similar threads


Top