Low dose estradiol on epistane?

[stillchillin]

On epistane cycles if you ran it solo and started having low estrogen sides couldn't you take a low dose of estradiol every (x) amount of days to offset the deficit? (Obviously before deciding you have low e you should get blood work to confirm.)

 

[Dthcore]

Thats exactly what you should do if you have no test base. I’m looking to do the same thing. I have test, but I’m allergic to the carrier oil so I can’t take it. Don’t want to wait any longer to get another one too.

Currently on DNP, going to add an anabolic to retain lbm.

 

[Renew1]

On epistane cycles if you ran it solo and started having low estrogen sides couldn't you take a low dose of estradiol every (x) amount of days to offset the deficit? (Obviously before deciding you have low e you should get blood work to confirm.)

Yep.
I'm curious ... What type of "estradiol" would you be adding?

 

[stillchillin]

Ethinyl estradiol oral .025mgs is what I was thinking. Havent done it yet.

 

[stillchillin]

Was honestly thinking you could possibly skip a base on a compound like epistane if you could manipulate your estrogen correctly. The "base" is only useful if it aromatize to make a little estrogen? Correct?

 

[Renew1]

Was honestly thinking you could possibly skip a base on a compound like epistane if you could manipulate your estrogen correctly. The "base" is only useful if it aromatize to make a little estrogen? Correct?

It depends upon the compound(s) you're cycling. But for Epistane, that would probably be your main need for a base.

 

[bradleyt1]

Wow how times have changed.. I remember back when you took a prohormone and it was just.. a prohormone. How far we have come as far as the chemistry behind these compounds amazes me.

 

[CroLifter]

Was honestly thinking you could possibly skip a base on a compound like epistane if you could manipulate your estrogen correctly. The "base" is only useful if it aromatize to make a little estrogen? Correct?

Yes, if you are running non aromatizeable compounds then you need something that aromatizes to maintain at least a physiologic level of estrogen.
So you are really taking test because of estrogen, since other anabolics are used to maintain anabolic activity, testosterone itself is not necessary for that function.

 

[stillchillin]

That's what I figured. Thanks for the dialogue gentlemen.

 

[jrock645]

Epistane was originally developed as an anti estrogenic drug, then they discovered the anabolic properties. No surprise that you have low E on it.

 

[Dthcore]

Yes, if you are running non aromatizeable compounds then you need something that aromatizes to maintain at least a physiologic level of estrogen.
So you are really taking test because of estrogen, since other anabolics are used to maintain anabolic activity, testosterone itself is not necessary for that function.

I wonder if you can use something like DBOL as a base since it aromatizes haha

 

[jrock645]

I wonder if you can use something like DBOL as a base since it aromatizes haha

I would assume so, but it’d be awfully tough on the liver.

 

[nostrum420]

Oh my dear sweet jesus...

No.

No to all of this. Like just about every part of this thread is a no.

Don't fucking take estradiol unless you're transitioning from male to female, especially not ethinyl estradiol and dbol is NOT a base.

Dear God just pin some damn test, or don't pin it, TD and oral test is easy enough to get... Occam's razor, c'mon!


/rant

 

[Iwilleattuna]

Oh my dear sweet jesus...

No.

No to all of this. Like just about every part of this thread is a no.

Don't fucking take estradiol unless you're transitioning from male to female, especially not ethinyl estradiol and dbol is NOT a base.

Dear God just pin some damn test, or don't pin it, TD and oral test is easy enough to get... Occam's razor, c'mon!


/rant

I thought no one was going to say it

Taking ESTROGEN GUYS? COME ON

Wouldn’t it cause worse suppression too ? Which ruins the whole point. Pretty sure estrogen in itself is extremely suppressive to a males test production and HPTA axis

 

[nostrum420]

I thought no one was going to say it

Taking ESTROGEN GUYS? COME ON

Wouldn’t it cause worse suppression too ? Which ruins the whole point. Pretty sure estrogen in itself is extremely suppressive to a males test production and HPTA axis

^ This too, yes.

 

[Rad83]

Dermacrine.

 

[Dthcore]

Dermacrine.

What does that convert to? DHT?

 

[UNX]

IME, I don't feel the need to add a base when running an oral-only cycle due to the short length (4 weeks). If it was the case, I'll add HCG or 4-DHEA.

 

[stillchillin]

Well regardless it was just a thought. There really isn't a whole lot of data on men taking estrogen other then for transitioning. I have seen a study(still trying to locate it) that suggests a low dose of estrogen in a man with low test can bring your libido back. Estrogen half life is around 13-20 hours orally so it's about 140 hours ish to eliminate roughly. 1 dose of .025mg of estradiol a week I dont think would cause much harm? My joints were all shitty, I was tired and my dick shrank up like a turtle going in its shell. Took one pill for the hell of it, 2 days later joints are better, dick is back to relaxed not shrunk and I feel good again. I'm not going to continue I'll just grab some trest or dermacrine. Thanks though guys.

 

[stillchillin]

On a side note couldn't I just eat a bunch of flax and soy to get a little estrogen?

 

[Renew1]

On a side note couldn't I just eat a bunch of flax and soy to get a little estrogen?

I don't have a good reference for how much those may or may not raise Estrogen, but a lot of us have experienced how much Test, Dermacrine, etc will raise their Estrogen.

 

[The Express 42]

Oh my dear sweet jesus...

No.

No to all of this. Like just about every part of this thread is a no.

Don't fucking take estradiol unless you're transitioning from male to female, especially not ethinyl estradiol and dbol is NOT a base.

Dear God just pin some damn test, or don't pin it, TD and oral test is easy enough to get... Occam's razor, c'mon!


/rant

Thank you, thank god someone said it. Epistane is not going to drop your estrogen enough to make it low although can give you some dry joint symptoms. If you’re super worried about it just take some 4 andro or Dermacrine. DO NOT add estrogen lmao

 

[The Express 42]

Oh my dear sweet jesus...

No.

No to all of this. Like just about every part of this thread is a no.

Don't fucking take estradiol unless you're transitioning from male to female, especially not ethinyl estradiol and dbol is NOT a base.

Dear God just pin some damn test, or don't pin it, TD and oral test is easy enough to get... Occam's razor, c'mon!


/rant

Thank you, thank god someone said it. Epistane is not going to drop your estrogen enough to make it low although can give you some dry joint symptoms. If you’re super worried about it just take some 4 andro or Dermacrine. DO NOT add estrogen lmao

 

[The Express 42]

On a side note couldn't I just eat a bunch of flax and soy to get a little estrogen?

Until you take a sensitive estrogen test to confirm your levels don’t worry about it. I think you’re overthinking this one big time

 

[The Express 42]

On a side note couldn't I just eat a bunch of flax and soy to get a little estrogen?

Until you take a sensitive estrogen test to confirm your levels don’t worry about it. I think you’re overthinking this one big time

 

[stillchillin]

Estrogen Replacement Therapy in a Man with Congenital Aromatase Deficiency: Effects of Different Doses of Transdermal Estradiol on Bone Mineral Density and Hormonal Parameters

Abstract. The effects of different doses of transdermal estradiol (TE) on bone mineral density (BMD) in a man with aromatase deficiency were evaluated. The

academic.oup.com

Here's a study on men with aromatizing deficiencies and giving low dose estradiol. Just to follow up.

 

[stillchillin]

Also not to beat the dead horse but has anyone ever tried it? Or really seen any kind of data on it? Or are you guys just opposing my bro-science with bro-science? Not trying to be sarcastic or a dick.

 

[nostrum420]

Also not to beat the dead horse but has anyone ever tried it? Or really seen any kind of data on it? Or are you guys just opposing my bro-science with bro-science? Not trying to be sarcastic or a dick.

I can't speak to anyone trying it; no one I know of has anyway. That being said there's plenty of data (albeit primarily animal models) that shows that even trace amounts of ethinyl estradiol can exert some pretty profound physiological effects:

https://www.google.com/search?q=male+exposure+to+trace+ethinyl+estradiol&rlz=1C1LOQA_enUS821US821&oq=male+exposure+to+trace+ethinyl&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33.8547j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[stillchillin]

Nice study. The male rats with the mammary tumors I assume would be gyno? What if there was a compound competing with the estradiol for the receptors? Or the effect of any estrogen mitigation?

 

[nostrum420]

Also not to beat the dead horse but has anyone ever tried it? Or really seen any kind of data on it? Or are you guys just opposing my bro-science with bro-science? Not trying to be sarcastic or a dick.

I can't speak to anyone trying it; no one I know of has anyway. That being said there's plenty of data (albeit primarily animal models) that shows that even trace amounts of ethinyl estradiol can exert some pretty profound physiological effects:

https://www.google.com/search?q=male+exposure+to+trace+ethinyl+estradiol&rlz=1C1LOQA_enUS821US821&oq=male+exposure+to+trace+ethinyl&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j33.8547j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Nice study. The male rats with the mammary tumors I assume would be gyno? What if there was a compound competing with the estradiol for the receptors? Or the effect of any estrogen mitigation?

The whole page of results is a number of studies, papers, articles, I wasn't referring only to the first result.

 

[UNX]

About epistane: it seems to be an ER antagonist on breast tissue (at least epitiostanol is), but is it also an antagonist on other tissues like the brain?

 

[Heybros1]

You know how many people have ran epi without a test base or estrogen lmfao almost everyone ever stop overthinking ****

 

[Hyde]

Dbol was literally designed to be an oral testosterone solution. Toxicity at the original 5-10mg daily isn’t going to be a concern for those without pre-existing conditions. For a 4-8wk oral cycle, this is definitely safe. You could probably even do a standard 25mg tab split into 2 doses and still be fine for most folks.

Alex Kikel has experimented adding estradiol in something like 40 of his clients and himself, no AI used, everyone pushing a good amount of gear. ~15% of guys had to quit due to gyno concerns. Everyone had better HDL, joint comfort and crazy libido. Listen to the Beast Fitness Radio podcast where he discusses the results. Conclusion was high estrogen was better, but NOT high as possible - there was a threshold where nothing got better and sides increased.

You could literally take DHEA or Dermacrine and be better off for gains and recovery than using estradiol. Trest or Dbol would be better options for bigger gains. If you can source Dbol you can get test tho, so why not use what your body really wants?

MOST IMPORTANTLY the joint drying from epistane isn’t entirely related to low E2. It dries them out to a degree regardless. I had joint pain so intense even on a GRAM of 4andro daily that I had to quit Epistane.

 

[Dthcore]

Dbol was literally designed to be an oral testosterone solution. Toxicity at the original 5-10mg daily isn’t going to be a concern for those without pre-existing conditions. For a 4-8wk oral cycle, this is definitely safe. You could probably even do a standard 25mg tab split into 2 doses and still be fine for most folks.

Alex Kikel has experimented adding estradiol in something like 40 of his clients and himself, no AI used, everyone pushing a good amount of gear. ~15% of guys had to quit due to gyno concerns. Everyone had better HDL, joint comfort and crazy libido. Listen to the Beast Fitness Radio podcast where he discusses the results. Conclusion was high estrogen was better, but NOT high as possible - there was a threshold where nothing got better and sides increased.

You could literally take DHEA or Dermacrine and be better off for gains and recovery than using estradiol. Trest or Dbol would be better options for bigger gains. If you can source Dbol you can get test tho, so why not use what your body really wants?

MOST IMPORTANTLY the joint drying from epistane isn’t entirely related to low E2. It dries them out to a degree regardless. I had joint pain so intense even on a GRAM of 4andro daily that I had to quit Epistane.

So dbol at 10mg a day should produce enough estro as a base? I’m allergic to my current test Carier oil but also have dbol.
I was thinking about hcg since it aromatizes aswell.

 

[Hyde]

So dbol at 10mg a day should produce enough estro as a base? I’m allergic to my current test Carier oil but also have dbol.
I was thinking about hcg since it aromatizes aswell.

Depends on what you consider “enough”. Enough to get your pecker hard? Enough to feel like you still have test in your system? Nothing feels truly like test except test.

I would say it depends on how long your blast is going to be. 4-6 weeks I would say squeak by with Dbol. Longer than that and I would have HCG in the mix, with or without some Dbol. HCG is great for raising estrogen and libido temporarily. But for best gains, order some test you can tolerate. These are just bropinions.

 

[UNX]

[QUOTE="Hyde, post: 6323407, member: 155247"
MOST IMPORTANTLY the joint drying from epistane isn’t entirely related to low E2. It dries them out to a degree regardless. I had joint pain so intense even on a GRAM of 4andro daily that I had to quit Epistane.
[/QUOTE]

Epistane is an ER antagonist, if it's potent enough adding exogenous estrogen will do little to nothing.

 

[Fx4life]

Dbol was literally designed to be an oral testosterone solution. Toxicity at the original 5-10mg daily isn’t going to be a concern for those without pre-existing conditions. For a 4-8wk oral cycle, this is definitely safe. You could probably even do a standard 25mg tab split into 2 doses and still be fine for most folks.

Alex Kikel has experimented adding estradiol in something like 40 of his clients and himself, no AI used, everyone pushing a good amount of gear. ~15% of guys had to quit due to gyno concerns. Everyone had better HDL, joint comfort and crazy libido. Listen to the Beast Fitness Radio podcast where he discusses the results. Conclusion was high estrogen was better, but NOT high as possible - there was a threshold where nothing got better and sides increased.

You could literally take DHEA or Dermacrine and be better off for gains and recovery than using estradiol. Trest or Dbol would be better options for bigger gains. If you can source Dbol you can get test tho, so why not use what your body really wants?

MOST IMPORTANTLY the joint drying from epistane isn’t entirely related to low E2. It dries them out to a degree regardless. I had joint pain so intense even on a GRAM of 4andro daily that I had to quit Epistane.

this. /thread

 

[anabolicloc]

Thank you, thank god someone said it. Epistane is not going to drop your estrogen enough to make it low although can give you some dry joint symptoms. If you’re super worried about it just take some 4 andro or Dermacrine. DO NOT add estrogen lmao

This is incorrect, Im currently on 250 mg test E/week and was doing 40 mg of Epistane for about 5 days and my estrogen crashed. I was feeling like complete ass, so fucking lethargic, couldn't go to the gym or do anything actually. I was sweating profusely and having these hot flashes where I would start sweating profusely and my legs would get all shaky. Took me about 4 days to finally start feeling better. Im positive Im a low converter to Estrogen, which is way Im so lean all the time but Epistane can crash your estrogen. I've now upped my Test to 300mg/week and trying to find the optimal dose of Epistane as to not crash. Ill start with 20 mg

 

[anabolicloc]

cool story im sure those guys have just been on pins n needles for over 3 years waiting to hear from you smdh

Lol, your upset that I shared my experience on a forum so later someone can benefit from anecdotal information? Wow, maybe try getting a life. lol

 

[johnny412]

Lol, your upset that I shared my experience on a forum so later someone can benefit from anecdotal information? Wow, maybe try getting a life. lol

you make a valid point