Looking to reduce the waist

[soseg]

Ok guys, another weight loss question... however I'm not here to ask "how to get a shredded 6pack" as I don't really care at the moment, never had one before so not an issue atm. All I want to do is cut off a few inches off my waist. Let me explain.

I'm close to 21 years of age, 6'1" and currently in the morning after my poop @ 192lbs.

I started lifting properly (without a strict diet, I just focus really on eating good amounts of protein) somewhere in November. I was always the skinny-fat type of guy, tho I looked fine in a shirt. I started off around 172-176lbs @ 15% bodyfat, so basically I've gone up 15-20lbs (not sure of current bf%). I know some of it may be food/water in the stomach as I'm eating more, some of it is muscle (I have noticed new shapes popping out), and some of it is obviously fat. As to the ratios - no clue.

I have always been comfortable with a waist line around 34-35" max... in a shirt it never bothered me... some of you thinner guys might be horrified. Now I am hovering around the 36.5"-37" as I think I put on some fat very fast in the first few initial weeks when I started eating more. Maybe too many carbs or maybe just too much too fast.


Basically I would like to drop back down to the old weight or at least lower the waist by 2-3inches... the more the better. I'm basically going by the mirror and by what I see, how I feel in a t-shirt and how much my nipples begin to poke out through a shirt cause I'm a tad chubbier now (plus the fact my pecks have "re-grown" due to muscle memory... bench has gone from 143 to 185lbs).

I lift 3x a week, know what I'm doing when it comes to that, am getting strength gains and loving the compound workouts.

Here is my question... cardio... (theres another thread going on about this but I dont want to hijack it and im not after a shredded 6-8pack as I stated before)... so I want to know in your opinions what would suit me best to get me into a comfortable position again within a month or two, hell even 3 months if need be. Its not a race.

I am confused regarding a few things from the other cardio post I was reading before due to everyone's differing opinions. ie:

1. cardio in the morning - empty stomach or not (if empty... completely, or should I get some BCAA's and down a protein shake 30mins before hand?) [personally I am leaning towards empty... when I say empty I am referring to no big breakfast... so a protein shake sounds like it would reduce catabolic effects... peoples personal opinions have stated BCAA's work well).

2. with cardio in the morning - HIIT or lower intensity, ie 85%+ MHR or <60% MHR? (kinda confused about this - so many differing opinions).

Basically, its those 2 issues up there... and here is what I'm kinda planning to do... so correct me on whats good and bad about this:

non-lifting-days:
after waking up do ~45mins cardio low intensity (unless someone convinces me to go HIIT) on an empty stomach - down a protein shake (with possibly BCAAs) pre cardio, and another protein shake post with a good breakfast

then possibly in the afternoon... cardio again. Now people say lower intensity cardio is awesome on empty stomach so I'd kinda presume its substantially less effective this time of day - however HIIT is all around brilliant in the long term so... I am thinking in the late afternoons to throw in a 20min HIIT session (unless this is a bad idea?)

on lifting days... I cant decide whether I should do a low intensity 45min session of cardio in the morning or whether I should save the energy for the weights roughly 3 hours later (HIIT sounds like a bad idea as Id assume it would drain be of energy for the weights) (theres 4 non lifting days which I plan to use ALL for cardio so depends....) and also I'm unsure whether or not I should follow my lifting session up by 30mins low intensity cardio or HIIT or not bother.

(I am looking through a list of what my supp store sells for fat loss... so the BCAA's are on the list and thats what people rant on about... theres also other things such as: acetyl-L-carnitine, DHT, Glycine, HCS Liquid, Lean, Meta-slim B2s, B2 forte, B3 and B3 tabs, Pro GH, Ascorbic Acid.... basically as stated before I'm not looking to get shredded here so I'm 99% these things are a waste for me, I have no clue what they are anyway but I'm just listing them incase anyone who replies REALLY recommends them... I only have a rough idea of BCAA's... and that is they keep your body from becoming catabolic...)

Have an indoor bike which I am planning to use, cant be bothered jogging and probably not jump-roping either...

Thanks...

PS I might check out the nutrition tracker on this site tomorrow morning and get it to work out for me how many calories I eat on lifting days to see if thats what got me bloated up... I eat pretty clean, no junk, dont make myself full, lots of small meals each day, try to get the veggie, dont have issues with energy so I keep carbs to a min but I do like to down a lot of chicken and cans of fish... so if anyone thinks I should look into my calorie intake I can post back tomorrow once I've worked it all out for lifting days (non lifting days I eat like a regular person as im not pedantic about becoming HUGE... but yea))

 

[t-bone2]

Ok guys, another weight loss question... however I'm not here to ask "how to get a shredded 6pack" as I don't really care at the moment, never had one before so not an issue atm. All I want to do is cut off a few inches off my waist.

In my experience, fat seems to oxidize from the extremities inwards. I can normally see striations on chest and quads and vascularity on arms, chest and quads as my abs are beginning to show definition. So you should anticipate it is going to come off around the waist last.

1. cardio in the morning - empty stomach or not (if empty... completely, or should I get some BCAA's and down a protein shake 30mins before hand?) [personally I am leaning towards empty... when I say empty I am referring to no big breakfast... so a protein shake sounds like it would reduce catabolic effects... peoples personal opinions have stated BCAA's work well).

Take 1 scoop of whey in water. That will supply a sufficient amount of BCAAs.

2. with cardio in the morning - HIIT or lower intensity, ie 85%+ MHR or <60% MHR? (kinda confused about this - so many differing opinions).

Burning the most amount of calories will lead to the greatest loss of overall mass. However, since you are interested in reduction of body fat, lower intensity is optimal. There is a good body of research showing that the maximal rate of lipid oxidation is achieved at an intensity of ~50-60% of VO2 Max. At higher intensities, lipid oxidation decreases in both relative and absolute terms. That converts to ~69-75% Max Hear Rate (HR).

Basically, its those 2 issues up there... and here is what I'm kinda planning to do... so correct me on whats good and bad about this:

non-lifting-days:
after waking up do ~45mins cardio low intensity (unless someone convinces me to go HIIT) on an empty stomach - down a protein shake (with possibly BCAAs) pre cardio, and another protein shake post with a good breakfast

That’s good!

then possibly in the afternoon... cardio again. Now people say lower intensity cardio is awesome on empty stomach so I'd kinda presume its substantially less effective this time of day - however HIIT is all around brilliant in the long term so... I am thinking in the late afternoons to throw in a 20min HIIT session (unless this is a bad idea?)

That’s not as good. There is very weak evidence for EPOC from HIIT. This is predominately Body Building lore without much research to back it up. (The studies I’ve seen have issues…) I’d go for another low intensity session here, with some whey if nothing has been eaten for several hours prior.

on lifting days... I cant decide whether I should do a low intensity 45min session of cardio in the morning or whether I should save the energy for the weights roughly 3 hours later (HIIT sounds like a bad idea as Id assume it would drain be of energy for the weights) (theres 4 non lifting days which I plan to use ALL for cardio so depends....) and also I'm unsure whether or not I should follow my lifting session up by 30mins low intensity cardio or HIIT or not bother.

Again, low intensity and do it post-resistance, not in the AM. Your HR will already be elevated from the resistance work and you should be able to get to the target HR sooner. However, if you are going heavy on legs I’d skip the cardio altogether on that day.

(I am looking through a list of what my supp store sells for fat loss... so the BCAA's are on the list and thats what people rant on about... theres also other things such as: acetyl-L-carnitine, DHT, Glycine, HCS Liquid, Lean, Meta-slim B2s, B2 forte, B3 and B3 tabs, Pro GH, Ascorbic Acid.... basically as stated before I'm not looking to get shredded here so I'm 99% these things are a waste for me, I have no clue what they are anyway but I'm just listing them incase anyone who replies REALLY recommends them... I only have a rough idea of BCAA's... and that is they keep your body from becoming catabolic...)

The EC stack is a good choice for what you are attempting to achieve, provided you can tolerate both.

Finally, while cardio is important, diet is paramount. It is about energy balance, calories in vs. calories out. Cardio will assist in oxidizing additional calories, but if your diet is on point and you haven’t put them there in the first place, your progress will be optimized.

 

[Aggravated]

Reps to you t-bone!

 

[soseg]

Thanks bro!
but how the hell do I rep you?!?! this layout is different!

so just confirming to make sure I'm clear on this... buy some BCAA's or... did you mean that a schoop of whey (15g of protein ~~) will provide me with a sufficient effect anyway?

And whats this EC stack you speak of?

Also... this 50-60% of max VO2... i presume that you did the conversion to 69-75% MHR? (i always read >60% MHR).

In that case I am off now for a 1 scoop (hope its enough) of whey, and 45mins on the bike aiming for 120bpm (60%) up to 150gpm (75%) as you suggested?

On a personal note its going to be hard to force myself to sit at 120bpm or at 150max even... I used to do cardio last year and was fine with going around 180bpm for an easy 30minutes I loved it... I wont feel like this is giving me a workout... but I'll force myself to stick to it

Thanks again!

 

[soseg]

Ok just did an hour... hard to keep it at >60% MHR like I've read everywhere else... my heart rate from what I could calculate was sitting around 140, 150max... ie a max of 75%... its very easy, even for the hour... im not used to it, so should i slow it down even more? the bike said I did 400 calories in the hour... I remember when I used to cycle on this same bike I used to do 250calories in 20mins, if not closer to 300... obviously pedalling a lot faster and higher incline... it was hell... same with my old jogging regimes... I would be constantly out of breath... so this is a walk in the park even at a max of 150bpm...

had 2 scoops of whey after the workout... now am waiting roughly 15-20mins before I have my breakfast...

(gotta say I dont feel as wasted after this 60min light-medium session as i do after my old 20min high-heart rate jogs etc )

 

[MMAMONSTER19]

ya fat burning is about low intensity for longer periods of time to help prevent muscles breaking down, here is another thing as well to help reduce weight its what ive been doing for the past 3 weeks and i am gradually losing weight and as well in no rush doing all i can to prevent losing muscle mass. before your workouts do cardio a 5-10 min jog or 5min sprinting will help get your heart rate up and get your body breaking down calories, and then do your workout to increase the calorie loss and after your workout do about 10-20 mins of cardio at low intensity to also lose weight if you are as worried as i am about losing muscle mass then this shouldnt affect you as long as your getting your protein/carbs/and fats in around your maintenace intake or lower whatever your going for. hope this helps

 

[soseg]

thanks, but the way I go in the gym I sometimes struggle fitting in my workouts into the 1hour time slow... i might consider a 5-10min jog before my squat day as leg day is the shortest for me

 

[t-bone2]

Thanks bro!
but how the hell do I rep you?!?! this layout is different!

so just confirming to make sure I'm clear on this... buy some BCAA's or... did you mean that a schoop of whey (15g of protein ~~) will provide me with a sufficient effect anyway?

Yes. The BCAAs are valine, leucine, and isoleucine. A typical 30g scoop of whey will contain ~5.5g of BCAAs. This should be sufficient to keep you out of catabolism, but not spike insulin high enough to negatively impact lipolysis.

And whats this EC stack you speak of?

It is the Ephedrine/Caffine stack. Lot's of studies, data and information on this one. Do a search and you'll find a lot of info. It is also reffered to as the ECA stack (where 'A' is aspirin). The aspirin has limited utility, so it can be skipped in most cases.

Also... this 50-60% of max VO2... i presume that you did the conversion to 69-75% MHR? (i always read >60% MHR).

The conversion is from a 1994 study which formed a regression equation converting VO2 Max to MHR. It is one equation that is used prevalently through the industry for that purpose.

In that case I am off now for a 1 scoop (hope its enough) of whey, and 45mins on the bike aiming for 120bpm (60%) up to 150gpm (75%) as you suggested?

Yep.

On a personal note its going to be hard to force myself to sit at 120bpm or at 150max even... I used to do cardio last year and was fine with going around 180bpm for an easy 30minutes I loved it... I wont feel like this is giving me a workout... but I'll force myself to stick to it

Please reread this:

There is a good body of research showing that the maximal rate of lipid oxidation is achieved at an intensity of ~50-60% of VO2 Max. At higher intensities, lipid oxidation decreases in both relative and absolute terms.​

Thus, based on that (and other research), if you exceed that level you will be oxidizing more that just fat.

 

[soseg]

yea i did some cardio last night, every so often check my heart rate... around 120... its such a walk in the park...no gradient on the bike, and 18 km/h i think (unless its mph)