Liver Panel

[Scottfalcon]

Hey guys.. currently on week 9 of 200 test/300 primo. I was running 25mg anavar for 6 weeks, stopped 3 weeks ago. Just got some bloodwork and alt/ast are super high. My doc wants me to get to a gastro and get a liver sono. I was under the impression that primo wouldn't have much of an effect on liver values, was I incorrect or is this just the low dose var effects still in play? Thanks.

 

[Scottfalcon]

Also for what it's worth, I don't drink at all. I also had about 6 days of a stomach virus immediately before this bloodwork where I was very dehydrated and had terrible diarrhea for 6 days straight, not sure if that can have any impact.

 

[match]

My understanding is that a lot of things can affect ALT and AST. About a year ago I had a super high elevated ALT (without having used any AAS) and it took me a lot of work, changing my diet and adding NAC, to bring it back to the reference range. I got an ultrasound after a few months of slow progress (before I made the changes that got me good results) and was diagnosed with NAFLD. I also don't drink.

I also believe that orals in general cause this, anavar being one of those routine offenders for those that it decides to mess with. Since you stopped anavar 3 weeks ago it may just be a question of time, but if you have NAFLD (as in, if you get your liver imaged and they say it's bigger than they would expect) you can make some changes to your diet that could potentially make a big difference. Feel free to DM me if you'd like a list of the changes I made to mine.

And if you have been taking orals without NAC: it's time to start taking NAC. My ALT is back in the range and I'm still taking mine.

There are better bro's on here who can give better advice than mine, but I hope I've helped a little.

 

[Scottfalcon]

Thanks brother! I've got a sono tomorrow, then doc end of the week.

 

[Scottfalcon]

Probably going to completely stop the blast, go back to TRT test for now.

 

[Scottfalcon]

@Smont any thoughts you're always dropping some great knowledge.. I may not post or comment frequently but I'm always reading

 

[Mikereyn513]

@Hyde as well they're both the top Dawgs when it comes to this type of stuff

 

[Hyde]

Probably going to completely stop the blast, go back to TRT test for now.

Test & primo aren’t causing that. I wouldn’t stop them.

Some viruses can raise things; COVID absolutely jacked my AST & ALT up some for a LONG time. I have heard many reports of this as well.

What are your AST/ALT values typically off-cycle? Total bilirubin? What numbers are they now. Mine are typically both low 40s, top of the normal ranges, and same for total bilirubin around 1.0 thanks to my Gilbert’s syndrome. Ironically, on 2g Swanson NAC and 500mg TUDCA from CEL daily, with 50mg Anavar daily for 6 weeks along with all my oil, my total bilirubin cut in half down to just 0.5, and AST/ALT were barely out of range in 60-70s. Liver support can make a big difference.

I’m just wondering if your doc saw something trivial like 100 or on the enzyme levels and is freaking out. That’s not a big deal for short term oral usage, and bilirubin needs to be all the way up at 3.5-5 to become a serious jaundice concern (although any unexplained trending should be monitored and explored obviously).

 

[Scottfalcon]

He didn't mention anything about bilirubin being off, only ast/alt. They were both very high, I don't have a copy yet, he just called me this morning. Generally my ast/alt are within range, and honestly the last time I ran var I had bloodwork shortly after and I was less than 5pts above the top of the reference range, so I'm really hoping it's this virus. What about aromasin, does that elevate it as well?

 

[Hyde]

He didn't mention anything about bilirubin being off, only ast/alt. They were both very high, I don't have a copy yet, he just called me this morning. Generally my ast/alt are within range, and honestly the last time I ran var I had bloodwork shortly after and I was less than 5pts above the top of the reference range, so I'm really hoping it's this virus. What about aromasin, does that elevate it as well?

For me, no - Aromasin makes no difference in liver values at any point. I am not aware of it generally being perceived as notably hepatoxic either.

If insurance is covering the ultrasounds, it’s a great opportunity to get a look under the hood, so I would definitely go for that as a preventative health measure, but I would not be alarmed yet without more info. Even if enzymes were ~100, that’s easily worth a doctor digging deeper, but zero concern on a temporary level if it was the orals or a virus. So you get a scan, and get follow up bloods to re-check enzymes in a month or so.

 

[Scottfalcon]

@Hyde thanks so much for all the great info brother. Helped put my mind at ease a little bit.

 

[Uncle_E]

Did you work out hard before the test? I did a PR squat session the night before a blood test a few years ago and and ALT/AST were unexpectedly elevated as a result of the work out/ recovery.

 

[Scottfalcon]

Did you work out hard before the test? I did a PR squat session the night before a blood test a few years ago and and ALT/AST were unexpectedly elevated as a result of the work out/ recovery.

That's funny you say that.. my gym is in the same office building as my gym, and I literally racked the bar from squats and walked upstairs to my doc appointment.

 

[match]

That's funny you say that.. my gym is in the same office building as my gym, and I literally racked the bar from squats and walked upstairs to my doc appointment.

I've also heard that hard work outs can have an impact on ALT/AST results.

That being said, I never changed up my training routine based on my bloodwork when I was getting my ALT back into proper range.

Could that be a factor for you? It probably was a factor (just not the only factor, and possibly an insignificant one), but there are so many variables that it's best at this point to let the docs do their thing and for you to find out what you can do to get back in the ref range.

 

[Hyde]

That's funny you say that.. my gym is in the same office building as my gym, and I literally racked the bar from squats and walked upstairs to my doc appointment.

Always take 2-3 days off prior to a draw when possible if you don’t want to risk impact on liver and kidney values. If you get a follow up test, take that precaution to remove that variable.

 

[Scottfalcon]

Always take 2-3 days off prior to a draw when possible if you don’t want to risk impact on liver and kidney values. If you get a follow up test, take that precaution to remove that variable.

Just did some quick research on weightlifting and liver enzymes and it actually seems like heavy lifting can elevate them significantly for up to 7 days.. learn something new every day! I guess the 45 second walk from the squat rack to the office wasn't enough recovery time lol! On the plus side, the first thing he checked was my BP, and it was 138/78 about 4 mins after an AMRAP of back squats of 335x7.. so that's good lol.

 

[Hyde]

Just did some quick research on weightlifting and liver enzymes and it actually seems like heavy lifting can elevate them significantly for up to 7 days.. learn something new every day! I guess the 45 second walk from the squat rack to the office wasn't enough recovery time lol! On the plus side, the first thing he checked was my BP, and it was 138/78 about 4 mins after an AMRAP of back squats of 335x7.. so that's good lol.

I always try to give 72 hours from an upper body session, longer for a destructive session hitting lower body. A squat AMRAP can certainly change things.

 

[BBiceps]

Always take 2-3 days off prior to a draw when possible if you don’t want to risk impact on liver and kidney values. If you get a follow up test, take that precaution to remove that variable.

Yeah… I just got back from the Dr, he was worried that I was about to have both liver and kidney failure… I was stupid and drew blood right after a heavy deadlift session… I have to go back now and retest, I’ll make sure to take a few days off before I draw. Stupid of me, I should know better.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah… I just got back from the Dr, he was worried that I was about to have both liver and kidney failure… I was stupid and drew blood right after a heavy deadlift session… I have to go back now and retest, I’ll make sure to take a few days off before I draw. Stupid of me, I should know better.

When I’m getting my own bloodwork drawn, I generally put it on a deload week.

 

[JKVol]

Always take 2-3 days off prior to a draw when possible if you don’t want to risk impact on liver and kidney values. If you get a follow up test, take that precaution to remove that variable.

This is correct. My liver and kidney values always ran a little high. Not danger levels but higher than what you would want. My wife is a nurse and she asked me if I usually workout within a few days of getting labs drawn. I said yeah, obviously I do. She told me to not workout within 5 days of my app and to pound the water starting 48 hours out. My next labs were significantly better. Anytime you are working out you are putting damaged soft tissue in your blood and damaged soft tissue is what these tests are looking for. Also no ibuprofen or Tylenol for a couple of days also. Ibuprofen can show up as a false positive for kidney values.

 

[JKVol]

Also as far as the OP, I don’t think anything he’s on caused the high liver values. I usually run Var in the spring for 10-12 weeks at 40-50mg. 300MG of test a week and I like to run Androsterone. I use TUDCA at 500mg and NAC and 1.2g. Fish oil at 4g and Cardarine around 20mg. My total cholesterol is usually in the 180 range but my LDL is usually a little high in the 110 area. But my liver and kidney values one week after my cycle has always been normal. I think the op needs to get labs ran again but lay off the weights for several days.

 

[Uncle_E]

I ran a test and tbol cycle for 8 weeks starting last February on a bulk, then ran a mild anavar cycle in June to help heal a wrist injury. I just had bloods drawn in early October and had the best liver values I’ve ever seen since I started this game. LDL was slightly out of range though.

I ran CEL Cycle Assist + NAC during and after the oral cycles, and had a few days off of heavy lifting from the gym before bloods.

So two oral cycles in less than a calendar year and liver values are excellent. LDL and HCT are still slightly impacted - time to cleanup my diet and add more cardio.