Unanswered Is “stacking” necessary?

[JoePaul39]

This question is for the veteran anabolic users on the board. Have you found it necessary as you have progressed in muscle growth that “stacking” steroids/Sarms has become necessary for continual growth or have you been for the most part able to continue to make gains by just relying on running just one strong compound by maybe just increase the dosages on it? Of course stacking is great for more rapid gains, but the great drawback is putting lipids furher in the tank than they already are from just one compound and perhaps for not that much additonal muscle.

 

[Renew1]

No. It isn't necessary for me.

 

[Mathb33]

Is stacked necessary?! SWOLE IS THE GOAL, SIZE IS THE PRICE!!!! Lol more seriously for me as the years went on it was more about choosing the good compounds. Of course I think stacking is very good and efficient but I don’t think it’s NECESSARY. (If we re talking orals of course)

 

[jrock645]

It may not be necessary but its effin awesome

 

[Old Witch]

It may not be necessary but its effin awesome

I concur.

 

[JoePaul39]

No. It isn't necessary for me.

Do you repeat running the same compound each cycle (DMZ) or do you change it up? If the same compound, do you need to increase dosage every few cycles?

 

[Matthersby]

It’s about your goals. If your goal is to put 15lbs on this year and stay at the same bf, you could just run a decent sarm or cruise test. I’ve seen guys just get on TRT and plug away for a decade, eat and look awesome.
BUT I want that goal by next month. Stacking is necessary for that goal since I’ll need a bulker injectable, a Test base, since it’ll be a 19nor, and a strong oral most likely. Mainly cause they’re fun.
Stacking 4 compounds isn’t always necessary though, but the more you progress, the more you may need more.

 

[Renew1]

Do you repeat running the same compound each cycle (DMZ) or do you change it up? If the same compound, do you need to increase dosage every few cycles?

I swap it up a good bit, but I do have favorites ... Like Anavar.
I don't notice much NEED to increase dosage, but am always tempted to bump it a little, to get better reaults (as long as sides aren't getting too heavy).

 

[JoePaul39]

It’s about your goals. If your goal is to put 15lbs on this year and stay at the same bf, you could just run a decent sarm or cruise test. I’ve seen guys just get on TRT and plug away for a decade, eat and look awesome.
BUT I want that goal by next month. Stacking is necessary for that goal since I’ll need a bulker injectable, a Test base, since it’ll be a 19nor, and a strong oral most likely. Mainly cause they’re fun.
Stacking 4 compounds isn’t always necessary though, but the more you progress, the more you may need more.

I just came off running my first methylated steroid cycle. I, like you, want all the gains NOW not years from now so in addition to running DMZ at 40 mg for six weeks with my trt cruise dose of test of 175 mg a week I also ran for 8 weeks (and at the same time as the DMZ) 345 mg 1 andro, 30 mg Rad 140, 20 mg LGD, and 30 mg S23. I ended up gaining over 20 pounds on the cycle , but as expected HDL was tanked to 18. I see guys on here on their first methylated run with DMZ alone gain 20 pounds so I am 2nd guessing myself. I just feel I probably could have gotten probably at least 16 to 18 pounds had I just done the DMZ SOLO with the trt test and maybe my HDL would have checked in at like a 25 instead of an 18 and I would have saved a lot of money in the process. I just don’t know if the few extra pounds I may have gained by stacking all the shi$ was worth it. My rational for stacking it was this “My HDL is going to be tanked NO MATTER WHAT so I might as well go ALL in and stack everything I can afford (provided I can manage the sides) and get the MAXIMUM amount of gains I can from a cycle.”

 

[RickyBlobby]

Stacking is good for minimizing side effects.

 

[Old Witch]

It’s about your goals. If your goal is to put 15lbs on this year and stay at the same bf, you could just run a decent sarm or cruise test. I’ve seen guys just get on TRT and plug away for a decade, eat and look awesome.
BUT I want that goal by next month. Stacking is necessary for that goal since I’ll need a bulker injectable, a Test base, since it’ll be a 19nor, and a strong oral most likely. Mainly cause they’re fun.
Stacking 4 compounds isn’t always necessary though, but the more you progress, the more you may need more.

I just came off running my first methylated steroid cycle. I, like you, want all the gains NOW not years from now so in addition to running DMZ at 40 mg for six weeks with my trt cruise dose of test of 175 mg a week I also ran for 8 weeks (and at the same time as the DMZ) 345 mg 1 andro, 30 mg Rad 140, 20 mg LGD, and 30 mg S23. I ended up gaining over 20 pounds on the cycle , but as expected HDL was tanked to 18. I see guys on here on their first methylated run with DMZ alone gain 20 pounds so I am 2nd guessing myself. I just feel I probably could have gotten probably at least 16 to 18 pounds had I just done the DMZ SOLO with the trt test and maybe my HDL would have checked in at like a 25 instead of an 18 and I would have saved a lot of money in the process. I just don’t know if the few extra pounds I may have gained by stacking all the shi$ was worth it. My rational for stacking it was this “My HDL is going to be tanked NO MATTER WHAT so I might as well go ALL in and stack everything I can afford (provided I can manage the sides) and get the MAXIMUM amount of gains I can from a cycle.”

Well I certainly didn’t get 20lbs off dmz solo.

 

[Matthersby]

I just came off running my first methylated steroid cycle. I, like you, want all the gains NOW not years from now so in addition to running DMZ at 40 mg for six weeks with my trt cruise dose of test of 175 mg a week I also ran for 8 weeks (and at the same time as the DMZ) 345 mg 1 andro, 30 mg Rad 140, 20 mg LGD, and 30 mg S23. I ended up gaining over 20 pounds on the cycle , but as expected HDL was tanked to 18. I see guys on here on their first methylated run with DMZ alone gain 20 pounds so I am 2nd guessing myself. I just feel I probably could have gotten probably at least 16 to 18 pounds had I just done the DMZ SOLO with the trt test and maybe my HDL would have checked in at like a 25 instead of an 18 and I would have saved a lot of money in the process. I just don’t know if the few extra pounds I may have gained by stacking all the shi$ was worth it. My rational for stacking it was this “My HDL is going to be tanked NO MATTER WHAT so I might as well go ALL in and stack everything I can afford (provided I can manage the sides) and get the MAXIMUM amount of gains I can from a cycle.”

You need your test. You’ll always notice an oral. You’ll always notice an adequately dosed injectable (assuming we are talking bulking) That’s 3 there.
How much more than that anybody needs is up to them, but it’s doubtful they can put on much more above that unless we are talking about insulin, growth or even myostatin inhibitors(basically non aas hormonal stuff) maybe even sarms.
I’d rather push dosage on my injectable than throw another compound in most times.
Synergy is a big thing too. Inj 19s and oral DHTs are like PB&J for me
I feel that’s all you need

I’ve ran 5 drugs stacked Didn’t impress me as much as I’d hoped.
To this day, my best ever was:
Test P 300/week
Trest Ace 300/week
SD 10/day
Novolin-R 10iu preworkout.
I put on 50lbs between that and another cycle over 6 months and kept most all of it.

Not the monster run you’d expect for all demgains.

But half the fun of this is bullshitting about it, playing scientist and experimenting with stuff. Talking about it here Some guys love Anavar and Tbol, some only want Msten SD or Dbol. You’ll never know until you’ve tried them all and many different combinations at that. As long as you’re getting labs done and being safe, why not stack more? Especially when you get into stuff that’s synergistic or additive. Mainly cutting drugs that don’t have insane effects on their own.
Personally, I don’t care to stack too much more than what I do, but I’m often tempted to see where it gets me. I do know when you gain too fast, you don’t keep it, that’s usually what I come back to when I think about stacking 5 things. Especially when just 3 simple drugs and a smidge of slin gave me the kind of gains I saw 3 years ago.

Hope this ramble makes sense. To me it seems excessive once you get over 4 and will just increase side effects. Oral, base, injectable bulker, done.

 

[Old Witch]

You need your test. You’ll always notice an oral. You’ll always notice an adequately dosed injectable (assuming we are talking bulking) That’s 3 there.
How much more than that anybody needs is up to them, but it’s doubtful they can put on much more above that unless we are talking about insulin, growth or even myostatin inhibitors(basically non aas hormonal stuff) maybe even sarms.
I’d rather push dosage on my injectable than throw another compound in most times.
Synergy is a big thing too. Inj 19s and oral DHTs are like PB&J for me
I feel that’s all you need

I’ve ran 5 drugs stacked Didn’t impress me as much as I’d hoped.
To this day, my best ever was:
Test P 300/week
Trest Ace 300/week
SD 10/day
Novolin-R 10iu preworkout.
I put on 50lbs between that and another cycle over 6 months and kept most all of it.

Not the monster run you’d expect for all demgains.

But half the fun of this is bullshitting about it, playing scientist and experimenting with stuff. Talking about it here Some guys love Anavar and Tbol, some only want Msten SD or Dbol. You’ll never know until you’ve tried them all and many different combinations at that. As long as you’re getting labs done and being safe, why not stack more? Especially when you get into stuff that’s synergistic or additive. Mainly cutting drugs that don’t have insane effects on their own.
Personally, I don’t care to stack too much more than what I do, but I’m often tempted to see where it gets me. I do know when you gain too fast, you don’t keep it, that’s usually what I come back to when I think about stacking 5 things. Especially when just 3 simple drugs and a smidge of slin gave me the kind of gains I saw 3 years ago.

Hope this ramble makes sense. To me it seems excessive once you get over 4 and will just increase side effects. Oral, base, injectable bulker, done.

This exactly.

Stacking is good, needed for certain things, excessive stacking is unnecessary, and there is entirely a methodology to it.

This is same as what I follow, Oral, base, injectable. What I like to do though is split the job between two differently estered injects plus test and then I start and finish with orals. And then those sexy sexy fuckin peptides...

 

[Old Witch]

And then there’s adding proviron, which makes your gear give a bit more for the dose, but doesn’t really count truly as another added thing. Not really in my eyes. I mean, it is...

 

[Matthersby]

And then there’s adding proviron, which makes your gear give a bit more for the dose, but doesn’t really count truly as another added thing. Not really in my eyes. I mean, it is...

Good stuff. I actually had to open a Bitcoin to use this source that has all kinds of goodies. First time using ProV, I feel like my blasts last too long and shbg is kinda screwed right now. I’m on almost 400test and 240Trest and I don’t really have much of a libido which is super odd. It could be other things, won’t know until end of week when labs come back. But I’ve never felt I needed proviron until 2018 when I started really researching its value with how I’m blasting these days.

 

[Old Witch]

Good stuff. I actually had to open a Bitcoin to use this source that has all kinds of goodies. First time using ProV, I feel like my blasts last too long and shbg is kinda screwed right now. I’m on almost 400test and 240Trest and I don’t really have much of a libido which is super odd. It could be other things, won’t know until end of week when labs come back. But I’ve never felt I needed proviron until 2018 when I started really researching its value with how I’m blasting these days.

Yeah I never really saw it’s value as a steroid and stopped recommending using it. But then I started thinking about some things... remembering things.

It’s not any kind of anabolic but what it can do in the presence of anabolics is totally worthwhile.

 

[JoePaul39]

Well I certainly didn’t get 20lbs off dmz solo.

Yes, but you are a veteran user of anabolics so of course you wouldnt pack on 20zIf it were your first methylated run it is realistic to pack on near 20 pounds on DMZ alone imo with virgin receptors.

 

[NGtrains]

This thread has been extremely informative

 

[Matthersby]

Yes, but you are a veteran user of anabolics so of course you wouldnt pack on 20zIf it were your first methylated run it is realistic to pack on near 20 pounds on DMZ alone imo with virgin receptors.

That’s why we stack though.
I can still get 20lbs on any run as long as I eat and the drugs are adequate.
Switching compounds and stacking are critical though once you’ve had a couple dozen runs with gear because a solo Dmz would seriously be a lame snooze-fest these days for me. Throw in 20/Msten, some NPP or Trest Ace, and some potent prop, and that will definitely get me excited.

 

[JoePaul39]

You need your test. You’ll always notice an oral. You’ll always notice an adequately dosed injectable (assuming we are talking bulking) That’s 3 there.
How much more than that anybody needs is up to them, but it’s doubtful they can put on much more above that unless we are talking about insulin, growth or even myostatin inhibitors(basically non aas hormonal stuff) maybe even sarms.
I’d rather push dosage on my injectable than throw another compound in most times.
Synergy is a big thing too. Inj 19s and oral DHTs are like PB&J for me
I feel that’s all you need

I’ve ran 5 drugs stacked Didn’t impress me as much as I’d hoped.
To this day, my best ever was:
Test P 300/week
Trest Ace 300/week
SD 10/day
Novolin-R 10iu preworkout.
I put on 50lbs between that and another cycle over 6 months and kept most all of it.

Not the monster run you’d expect for all demgains.

But half the fun of this is bullshitting about it, playing scientist and experimenting with stuff. Talking about it here Some guys love Anavar and Tbol, some only want Msten SD or Dbol. You’ll never know until you’ve tried them all and many different combinations at that. As long as you’re getting labs done and being safe, why not stack more? Especially when you get into stuff that’s synergistic or additive. Mainly cutting drugs that don’t have insane effects on their own.
Personally, I don’t care to stack too much more than what I do, but I’m often tempted to see where it gets me. I do know when you gain too fast, you don’t keep it, that’s usually what I come back to when I think about stacking 5 things. Especially when just 3 simple drugs and a smidge of slin gave me the kind of gains I saw 3 years ago.

Hope this ramble makes sense. To me it seems excessive once you get over 4 and will just increase side effects. Oral, base, injectable bulker, done.

Ya your post makes perfect sense. Definitely at least need a cruise dose of test with any oral to avoid feeling like ****. 3 compounds seems like a reasonable medium as opposed to just solo compound runs or running a whole bunch (5 or 6) at once like I did on my last run. I think you get diminishing returns the more you add. Say for example someone can gain 8 pounds on a solo fully dosed 1 andro 8 week cycle and 15 or so pounds on a solo fully dosed DMZ cycle. I don’t think the math would add up if you combined both compounds fully dosed and still expect 8 pounds from the 1 andro PLUS still get an additonal 15 from fully dosing the DMZ for a net gain of 23 pounds from the cycle. Rather adding the 2 compounds together might just add a couple more pounds of muscle than had the DMZ been run solo. Me being new to the game can probably get more from solo runs than you guys and then I can progress to stacking, but since I came into the game late at 40 I feel I have no time to waste, thus I stacked from the offset lol.

 

[Mathb33]

Yes, but you are a veteran user of anabolics so of course you wouldnt pack on 20zIf it were your first methylated run it is realistic to pack on near 20 pounds on DMZ alone imo with virgin receptors.

I think what a lot of new coming guys don’t get is there’s a difference between 20 lbs of real Muscles and just 20 lbs. It’s like when ppl say they gained 14 lbs on a 8 weeks cycle of LGD but 7 of it was fat. A 10-12 lbs of Lean muscle mass for dmz would be insanely good.

 

[JoePaul39]

I think what a lot of new coming guys don’t get is there’s a difference between 20 lbs of real Muscles and just 20 lbs. It’s like when ppl say they gained 14 lbs on a 8 weeks cycle of LGD but 7 of it was fat. A 10-12 lbs of Lean muscle mass for dmz would be insanely good.

Ya I lost 3 and a half pounds the week afterward which is to be expected which was probably glycogen. Body fat percentage stayed the same on my run which means I gained some fat, but not too much. Can still lift the same amount after cycle, but it has only been a week.

 

[Mathb33]

Ya those compounds are insanely good at holding a ton of glycogen so a few lbs loss right away is to be expected

 

[JoePaul39]

That’s why we stack though.
I can still get 20lbs on any run as long as I eat and the drugs are adequate.
Switching compounds and stacking are critical though once you’ve had a couple dozen runs with gear because a solo Dmz would seriously be a lame snooze-fest these days for me. Throw in 20/Msten, some NPP or Trest Ace, and some potent prop, and that will definitely get me excited.

Since you training to compete bro the more compounds the better!

 

[Old Witch]

Yes, but you are a veteran user of anabolics so of course you wouldnt pack on 20zIf it were your first methylated run it is realistic to pack on near 20 pounds on DMZ alone imo with virgin receptors.

After a decade long break I think a good oral should have been plenty. It wasn’t. Guaranteed my m1A and M1T runs work like they should, though.

 

[Matthersby]

Ya your post makes perfect sense. Definitely at least need a cruise dose of test with any oral to avoid feeling like ****. 3 compounds seems like a reasonable medium as opposed to just solo compound runs or running a whole bunch (5 or 6) at once like I did on my last run. I think you get diminishing returns the more you add. Say for example someone can gain 8 pounds on a solo fully dosed 1 andro 8 week cycle and 15 or so pounds on a solo fully dosed DMZ cycle. I don’t think the math would add up if you combined both compounds fully dosed and still expect 8 pounds from the 1 andro PLUS still get an additonal 15 from fully dosing the DMZ for a net gain of 23 pounds from the cycle. Rather adding the 2 compounds together might just add a couple more pounds of muscle than had the DMZ been run solo. Me being new to the game can probably get more from solo runs than you guys and then I can progress to stacking, but since I came into the game late at 40 I feel I have no time to waste, thus I stacked from the offset lol.

I understand feeling that way. But with the exception of wrestling with bodyfat a little more, I can put more muscle on at 40 than I ever have.
As a few have said, especially the veterans, you’ll notice a lot of them run drugs like EQ, because the gain are slow and steady and realistic. 30lbs in 6 weeks just won’t stick.

I think hands down the most important thing, ESPECIALLY at our age, is being realistic if you are cycling and really dialing in your post cycle and be aggressive with it. TRT is pretty necessary for me, I couldn’t hang onto much of anything if I cycled. Sucks that if you want to play this game into your 40s and 50s is you’ll definitely one day need to be dependent.

 

[Matthersby]

Since you training to compete bro the more compounds the better!

Well yes if they have a purpose and it’s not overkill. I don’t see a reason for more than the big three though for bulking. Cutting is absolutely a different story in my experience. Pros are able to DROP bodyfat and continue growing for a show. That takes more than just test and clen. A lot more..
It’s just a silly goal I want to do a masters Men’s Physique at some point. I don’t have genetics but I’ve learned enough over the years to look decent and the discipline I learned in the military has helped with my training and diet. I try to learn from guys on here though, every day I learn something that can help me progress.

 

[JoePaul39]

Well yes if they have a purpose and it’s not overkill. I don’t see a reason for more than the big three though for bulking. Cutting is absolutely a different story in my experience. Pros are able to DROP bodyfat and continue growing for a show. That takes more than just test and clen. A lot more..
It’s just a silly goal I want to do a masters Men’s Physique at some point. I don’t have genetics but I’ve learned enough over the years to look decent and the discipline I learned in the military has helped with my training and diet. I try to learn from guys on here though, every day I learn something that can help me progress.

Ya this forum is a wealth of knowledge. Lot of knowedabe guys on here to help people run things the smart way and to minimize risk. You ever cut without compounds? I am afraid I would lose muscle doing so at 40 (actually 41 now as of March).

 

[Smont]

Nothing is necessary. It's all choices and preferences

 

[Borashi]

All I know being a cycle newbie. I put on a solid 10lbs with that Kong stack. Haven't been able to replicate those results with 2 more cycles completed.

 

[JoePaul39]

All I know being a cycle newbie. I put on a solid 10lbs with that Kong stack. Haven't been able to replicate those results with 2 more cycles completed.

Probably cause that was one of your first runs.

 

[Matthersby]

Ya this forum is a wealth of knowledge. Lot of knowedabe guys on here to help people run things the smart way and to minimize risk. You ever cut without compounds? I am afraid I would lose muscle doing so at 40 (actually 41 now as of March).

If you had to choose only one CUTTING ALL THE WAY. In 2018 I almost hired a trainer to compete at MP, he’s one of the more prominent trainers for NPC shows out in AZ. We spoke for over an hour and he swears you don’t need steroids for gaining muscle as long as you have good natty levels of course. They are paramount for cutting. I totally agree. But of course **** it, I’ll use em for both.
Look at natty guys: off season: 20lbs muscle/20lbs fat=40lb gain
Precontest diet off the 20lbs of fat, lose 15 muscle: net gain 5lbs at 14% now.
You can do that on a high dose of just test and STAY at under 14% while putting 5lbs lean every month.

Steroids rock.

 

[JoePaul39]

If you had to choose only one CUTTING ALL THE WAY. In 2018 I almost hired a trainer to compete at MP, he’s one of the more prominent trainers for NPC shows out in AZ. We spoke for over an hour and he swears you don’t need steroids for gaining muscle as long as you have good natty levels of course. They are paramount for cutting. I totally agree. But of course **** it, I’ll use em for both.
Look at natty guys: off season: 20lbs muscle/20lbs fat=40lb gain
Precontest diet off the 20lbs of fat, lose 15 muscle: net gain 5lbs at 14% now.
You can do that on a high dose of just test and STAY at under 14% while putting 5lbs lean every month.

Steroids rock.

Ya steroids are quite the hobby lol! Even though they are bad on the cardiovascular system I like to think all the extra exercise and eating right steroid users typically do offset some of that. I quit binge drinking thanks to steroids so my wife prefers that as my “hobby” as well. Much less detrimental to health than drinking.

I only try to maintain weight off cycle (no cut and no bulk). Now that I am older what I have found when I cut in a natty state I seem to lose a lot more muscle than I do fat weight even with a spot on diet. It is never that way cutting on good old anabolics!

 

[Matthersby]

It’s the side effects that gets to my woman. If anything at all is wrong with me, she’s like “it’s all that **** you take!”
Sometimes I’m less than honest with her: be talking 500 NPP and 40 Dbol and I’m like “I must be eating a lot! All I’m taking is my usual TRT dose!”
Yet she’s cool bc I don’t bring any bullshyt to our lives with drinking or anything. She’s been with an addict so she gives me a lot of slack since my addictions are a thing of the past.

 

[Chados]

You want the synergistic effect sometimes. I can't grow nearly as much on 500mg test now, in fact it would be on the verge of disappointing. If I go double the amount I'd still feel the effect would be better with 500mg of test and 500mg of deca than 1gr of test. It really depends where you're at physically.

Testosterone is one of the worst anabolic/androgenic steroids and even steroids that's much weaker like eq would still be a very nice addition compared to test alone.

 

[Matthersby]

You want the synergistic effect sometimes. I can't grow nearly as much on 500mg test now, in fact it would be on the verge of disappointing. If I go double the amount I'd still feel the effect would be better with 500mg of test and 500mg of deca than 1gr of test. It really depends where you're at physically.

Testosterone is one of the worst anabolic/androgenic steroids and even steroids that's much weaker like eq would still be a very nice addition compared to test alone.

Exactly what I’m trying to say.
Test has value, but just running it higher instead of at a baseline and letting something with a stronger profile do the work is really where it’s at.