Slims has you covered. GDA's and not recommended to be taken post workout. They work very well for a preworkout meal or before breakfast (depending on what time you lift). The studies on berberine are correct, but the negative effects won't be a problem if you aren't dosing it after your workout.
My highest card meal is when I break my fast...around 4 hours after my workout. Would that work
What is the practical implication of this though? Does being perhaps slightly less than "optimal" in regards to muscle growth have any meaningful impact on muscle growth in the real world? Does it outweigh the other benefits/uses it provides?
Fair enough, but the other study I referenced may be the closest/most direct thing we have in regards to measuring the effects of berberine on fat and lean mass in "normal" human subjects. Granted, the study did not really focus on muscle mass or lean body mass, but given the changes in weight and body fat % they did measure, we can easily extrapolate lean body mass, if not actual "muscle" mass. It would be ideal to have a study on berberine in resistance trained subjects, but we don't have that.
I think the big "question" or "debate" here is regarding the practical significance/relevance in regards to muscle growth in subjects who eat a high-protein diet and train regularly. Cooper has said that he thinks the effects would be negligible, and one human study showed a decrease in fat mass, but no change in lean body mass after 12 weeks of berberine use.
No problem. It's nice to be able to have something in actual humans, not just rodents, and especially not just extrapolating from in vitro studies. The study isn't "perfect" for us, as it didn't use our "target population" here (resistance trained individuals), but it's still a solid starting point in regards to having a somewhat better and more solid picture of the practical effects it has in humans. That's a pretty solid dose (500mg 3x per day) for a pretty solid duration of time (12 weeks), and a loss of fat mass without negatively impacting lean mass isn't a bad thing haha.
A decrease in fat mass with no loss in lean mass is like the holy grail right? Perhaps it’s ability to activate glucose uptake into muscle is muscle sparing because of simply more glucose in the muscle. It would defeat the need for our body to gluconeogenisize.
It’s a great thing to say the least. One could argue that it would be the “holy grail” to lose fat while subsequently gaining muscle (a true “recomp”), but losing fat while maintaining muscle is still pretty great, especially since this weight loss and preservation of muscle was done without mandatory resistance training, or even a controlled diet, so it’s likely that if someone were to eat well (high protein) and train regularly, they could lose more fat while preserving muscle, or perhaps even gain muscle. It’s hard to gain muscle without exercising, so it comes as no surprise that the subjects didn’t gain any muscle mass, but losing fat while preserving muscle is still pretty solid.
Again, it comes down to what you consider "maximizing" muscle gains, that is how relevant the effects of these pathways are in the real world. I can understand and respect your choice to err on the side of caution, but I just wanted to make it clear that it's not exactly a cut and dry topic. There's also the question that everyone has to ask themselves of if this potential negative outweighs the potential positives; not everyone's primary goal is gaining as much muscle as possible and ignoring all other factors, factors which may be why someone uses berberine in the first place. Until we have a study in non-obese subjects, and preferably a study in resistance-trained subjects, we won't really be able to say anything conclusively. But it seems that the primary focus of berberine research isn't regarding resistance-trained individuals, so we may not see such a study any time soon, so everyone will have to make their own decisions based on the information we both provided, anecdotes, and personal experience, as I don't really see much "harm" in trying it for yourself at the end of the day if i'm being honest, assuming you're looking for a GDA that is.
I take assass1nate preworkout and I workout fasted or like 4-5gs of leucine, w/e. No hypo. But Idk what hypo is supposed to feel like.
I looked up irisin. It seems studies are hit and miss about training raising irisin. Like this one.Invalid Link Removed
Sorry, I think I am reading this particular post wrong. So your message here is or is not that taking assass1nate prior or post workout is ok?
Not who you asked but:
