EGCG increases Tamoxifen oral bioavailability

[SSJ4GOD]

Seems pretty significant. EGCG is pretty cheap too so might be a fantastic combo!

https://journals.lww.com/anti-cancerdrugs/Abstract/2009/08000/Effects_of_epigallocatechin_gallate_on_the_oral.7.aspx

 

[Jeremyk1]

Really interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm always on Epichaos during PCT anyway!

That’s a different compound, so may not do the same. Unless that paper also lists epicatechin? I haven’t looked yet!

 

[Smont]

I just realized we're talking about 2 different things.

But I'd be concerned with the things I mentioned above

 

[SSJ4GOD]

There's some studies that show it can lower your test. I'm sure it's not to a significant degree but anything that lowers testosterone even slightly will probably be counter productive in pct. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but during pct yiur #1 priority is raising testosterone.

How much it's going to make a difference, I got no clue.

As far as ecgc increasing the oral bio of tamoxifen, that's probably ot a good idea. Tamox actually has poor bioavailabilty but it still works and has potential for a lot of side effects like most serms. By drastically increasing the bio it's probably gonna also drastically increase side effects. 2 things I'd be massively concerned about are 1. Blood clots and 2. Estrogen receptors in your eyes.

This paper points out it goes from like 27% to like 43-71% bioavailability. In a dosing regard, you could use half the amount and make a bottle last a lot longer lol

 

[Renew1]

There's some studies that show it can lower your test. I'm sure it's not to a significant degree but anything that lowers testosterone even slightly will probably be counter productive in pct. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but during pct yiur #1 priority is raising testosterone.

How much it's going to make a difference, I got no clue.

As far as ecgc increasing the oral bio of tamoxifen, that's probably ot a good idea. Tamox actually has poor bioavailabilty but it still works and has potential for a lot of side effects like most serms. By drastically increasing the bio it's probably gonna also drastically increase side effects. 2 things I'd be massively concerned about are 1. Blood clots and 2. Estrogen receptors in your eyes.

Are you saying that our product "Epichaos" may lower Testosterone??

 

[Renew1]

This is why I tell you guys this s***. Thanks for the info

Epichaos will not lower your Test, and is safe to use during PCT.

 

[Jeremyk1]

Are you saying that our product "Epichaos" may lower Testosterone??

I’m pretty sure he meant EGCG.

Last I remember reading about it, the 4 major catechins in green tea were all a little different. 2 of them decreased test, the other two increased. Pretty sure epicatechin can potentially give a slight increase.

 

[Jeremyk1]

This paper points out it goes from like 27% to like 43-71% bioavailability. In a dosing regard, you could use half the amount and make a bottle last a lot longer lol

Yeah this is how I would use this info. This stuff is already pharmacologically active and has a fairly substantial risk of side effects. Taking EGCG with it has potential to worsen things. It can already do what it’s supposed to without the boost, so I’d reduce dose if you want to try this.

 

[Renew1]

I’m pretty sure he meant EGCG.

Last I remember reading about it, the 4 major catechins in green tea were all a little different. 2 of them decreased test, the other two increased. Pretty sure epicatechin can potentially give a slight increase.

I appreciate you trying to clear this up man. It would be nice if he'd edit his comment, so that it no longer states that.

To be clear, my question wasn't whether or not Epichaos lowers Test (I'm confident it does Not).
I was trying to determine what Smont was stating, and hoping that he'd do the right thing, and fix that error.

 

[Stacks1]

I think I've seen studies that show EGCG increases test and suppresses test... which makes me think it probably does neither. But I can't guarantee it.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Yeah this is how I would use this info. This stuff is already pharmacologically active and has a fairly substantial risk of side effects. Taking EGCG with it has potential to worsen things. It can already do what it’s supposed to without the boost, so I’d reduce dose if you want to try this.

Well also some people don’t respond well to tamox either. It needs to be converted in the body to be active and some people just don’t convert it well. It would be a great experiment for those people who don’t respond to it as well.

 

[Smont]

Are you saying that our product "Epichaos" may lower Testosterone??

I'm not sure what you mean. I said there's studies showing egcg lowers test. I don't recall ever saying anything about Epichaos.

 

[Smont]

Ok I see, someone said they use Epichaos in pct

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I'm not sure what you mean. I said there's studies showing egcg lowers test. I don't recall ever saying anything about Epichaos.

Yeah it was a confusion because of when you posted it, it came right after someone posted they take epichaos during pct. But… you were responding to the EGCG.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah it was a confusion because of when you posted it, it came right after someone posted they take epichaos during pct. But… you were responding to the EGCG.

He responded to the commenter's comment, talking about Epichaos.

It was probably an error (as I stated), but I really don't want that comment existing on our board as it isn't factual, and paints our product in a very bad light

 

[Smont]

I appreciate you trying to clear this up man. It would be nice if he'd edit his comment, so that it no longer states that.

To be clear, my question wasn't whether or not Epichaos lowers Test (I'm confident it does Not).
I was trying to determine what Smont was stating, and hoping that he'd do the right thing, and fix that error.

I'm gonna edit it but it's not a error, I was at no point talking about your product. The name of the product just happens to be I'm the thread and were talking about egcg. This is a bit ridiculous but whatever

 

[Smont]

It's edited, hope everyone can carry on

 

[Smont]

My phone is just auto sending blank posts, if a bunch of blank posts keep popping up from me my bad. I been having issues with this phone since my last update

 

[Renew1]

I'm gonna edit it but it's not a error, I was at no point talking about your product. The name of the product just happens to be I'm the thread and were talking about egcg. This is a bit ridiculous but whatever

That's not right.
You responded to his comment about Epichaos.
But thank you for doing the right thing, anyway

 

[Smont]

That's not right.
You responded to his comment about Epichaos.
But thank you for doing the right thing, anyway

No, I was talking to a person, that just happened to be his only post at the moment and it didn't just talk about Epichaos. He was responding to someone talking about adding egcg to tamox and thsts what I was talking about.

 

[Smont]

Regardless it's clearly stated now

 

[Smont]

Back to the point at hand, honestly my only concern would be increases side effects from increasing the bio. Kinda like how grapefruit can exaggerate sides from BP meds and stuff. I'm guessing obviously as I haven't tried combining the stuff with a serm and I don't think anyone else has?

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Back to the point at hand, honestly my only concern would be increases side effects from increasing the bio. Kinda like how grapefruit can exaggerate sides from BP meds and stuff. I'm guessing obviously as I haven't tried combining the stuff with a serm and I don't think anyone else has?

I’m considering trying it eventually. Not taking a serm right now but I did just order some EGCG for next month due to its potential ability to increase COMT activity.

 

[Smont]

I’m considering trying it eventually. Not taking a serm right now but I did just order some EGCG for next month due to its potential ability to increase COMT activity.

Be careful. If your vision gets weird remember, there's receptors in the eyes

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Be careful. If your vision gets weird remember, there's receptors in the eyes

Yeah. I will probably drop the dose almost in half because even on the low end, a 40% increase in bioavailability will put low dose tamox into an average dose range… theoretically

 

[Stacks1]

Yeah. I will probably drop the dose almost in half because even on the low end, a 40% increase in bioavailability will put low dose tamox into an average dose range… theoretically

The only reason why I might not be too concerned with adding EGCG with tamox is because there has to be plenty of people who have unknowingly taken the 2 together without knowing anything about this study. It's in quite a few supplements and I have to believe quite a few people have PCT on here taking both of them together. I would bet there is probably someone or a log on here that used tamox for PCT with BLR Androgin or some other product with EGCG.

Not saying you shouldn't proceed with some caution, however I would just be shocked if this hasn't been done many times already.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

The only reason why I might not be too concerned with adding EGCG with tamox is because there has to be plenty of people who have unknowingly taken the 2 together without knowing anything about this study. It's in quite a few supplements and I have to believe quite a few people have PCT on here taking both of them together. I would bet there is probably someone or a log on here that used tamox for PCT with BLR Androgin or some other product with EGCG.

Not saying you shouldn't proceed with some caution, however I would just be shocked if this hasn't been done many times already.

Doesn’t app

The only reason why I might not be too concerned with adding EGCG with tamox is because there has to be plenty of people who have unknowingly taken the 2 together without knowing anything about this study. It's in quite a few supplements and I have to believe quite a few people have PCT on here taking both of them together. I would bet there is probably someone or a log on here that used tamox for PCT with BLR Androgin or some other product with EGCG.

Not saying you shouldn't proceed with some caution, however I would just be shocked if this hasn't been done many times already.

the dose of EGCG was pretty high in the study so you wouldn’t get it from androgin.

 

[Stacks1]

Doesn’t app


the dose of EGCG was pretty high in the study so you wouldn’t get it from androgin.

Maybe not Androgin... I think that's a prop blend anyway. But I am sure there have been people taking 1 gram + per day. Most of the EGCG products recommend 800mgs per day I believe. How much are you thinking of taking?

 

[Stacks1]

It would just be shocking to me if there weren't a number of people on here who have taken 1g+ of EGCG plus tamox. Maybe someone will come in and confirm they have....? Although it's likely they may have done it unknowingly.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

It would just be shocking to me if there weren't a number of people on here who have taken 1g+ of EGCG plus tamox. Maybe someone will come in and confirm they have....? Although it's likely they may have done it unknowingly.

So what you need to realize is EGCG products are usually standardized to a max of 40%. So 1 gram of product would give you 400mgs max of EGCG. Study used 750 mgs of pure EGCG and based on the math of my capsules I will be at that or 800.

 

[Stacks1]

So what you need to realize is EGCG products are usually standardized to a max of 40%. So 1 gram of product would give you 400mgs max of EGCG. Study used 750 mgs of pure EGCG and based on the math of my capsules I will be at that or 800.

That's a good point. But even 800mgs isn't really that much. Just feel like there has to be at least a few people who would have supplemented EGCG at that dose if they were getting it from a straight EGCG product plus as an additional add-on from another. Maybe they haven't hit the exact threshold but someone has to have come darn close to it. My point is, I think it's likely some people have come close enough to that figure on a full dose of tamox. So, if you're talking about cutting the dose in half like you said... I wouldn't be that concerned about the sides. But there is always still a risk, so I am not trying to minimize that.