Unanswered Break from Natural Anabolics?

[nãomiguel]

Have been running some natural anabolics for a few months, and now I'm wondering if it is advisable to cycle off or try something else. My goal has been to recomp, and it seems to have gone okay. Weight has fluctuated +/- 2.5lbs over the period, bodyfat has been reduced by a point or two, and my muscles definitely look and feel at least as solid as two months ago. Strength in the gym seems to have gone up noticeably. Diet could be better--I could eat more--but I eat a lot of really healthy stuff and aim for lots of protein. Haven't done a lot of cardio but some.

Supplements (past 2 months):
Nutrithority Singularity/Olympic Labs Massacr3 5-alpha hydroxy Laxogenin (4 weeks solo and 4 weeks stacked w/ epi)	~8 weeks
Olympic Labs Ep1logue Epicatechin (taken w/ Laxogenin + Vaso6 + Urobolin)	~4 weeks
Olympic Labs Test1fy	~4 weeks
CEL Anabolic Effect + CEL M-Test	~4 weeks (after Test1fy)
SNS X-Gels	~5 gels/day x ~4 weeks

Thoughts?

 

[ValiantThor08]

Are those what you have taken, or what you want to take?

 

[nãomiguel]

Are those what you have taken, or what you want to take?

That's everything I've taken for the last 2 months or so. Well. and a bunch of other vitamins and minerals. Protein, creatine, beta alanine, ECY, DHEA, antioxidants, pre-workout, ...

 

[ValiantThor08]

What is your protein/carb/fat intake presently. And yes. Would take a break for a month or two on the natural anabolics.

 

[Iwilleattuna]

It’s smart to take a break , yes. I believe you should to become sensitive again to them. And that’s a lot and I’m not sure whether you need to run Massacr3 with Ep1logue. Since they have the same auxiliary ingredients

 

[nãomiguel]

@Veejay: u right bro. help me.

What is your protein/carb/fat intake presently. And yes. Would take a break for a month or two on the natural anabolics.

Honestly, I don't know. I aim for like 40P/40C/20F probably.

Ok, please don't bite my head off for this next piece. I've calculated my macros before, but found it a difficult practice to stick to (particularly food logging/estimating portions). So, I try to eat a daily diet of mostly unprocessed and organic foods based on basic principles that will (on average) provide high fibre, low fat, low sodium, and low sugar but sufficient carbs for growing. That is, I don't count calories except to know what my BMR (probably) is, and not to go crazy eating shitty foods beyond my BMR (+/- ~10-15%). I am definitely willing to reconsider this position. Daily diet is like:

2 Eggs + 'some' Egg Whites + Veggies (or much less commonly Oats, Protein Pancake, Meal Replacement Shake)
4-oz lean(ish) meat (2-3x/day) + some rice, potatoes, and/or veggies (usually veggies)
Protein Shake (avg 1x/day), usually a whey isolate.
Whole-grain, like, Kashi bar. (~3-5x/wk)
Fruits and Veggies (I eat a lot, don't count any of them, but try to avoid like too much sugar. Juices w/ fibre)
(occasional) Cottage Cheese + Almond Butter Powder + Blueberries + Hemp Seed + Pears (2x/wk before bed)
(occasional) Turkey Bacon w/ brekky (1-2x/wk)
(occasional) Snacks: Turkey Jerky, small Whole-Grain Granola Bar, Protein Bar, Dark Chocolate Almonds (after workout)
(rare) 'cheat' day - I might eat at a buffet or something, try to limit sweets and
Drink water, coffee, and tea. (No Alcohol)

Also, I get daily multi, green supp, trace minerals, B-complex, vitamin E + ALA, BCAAs, child blood, ...

 

[ValiantThor08]

Your weight? I would increase meat/protein per meal. Minimum 6oz per meal. I personally try to do 8oz + per meal. To optimize mTOR/muscle protein synthesis, there is a certain amount of leucine you must get in a meal to do that. Typically it is 2.5g of leucine per meal. If you increase your protein content per meal, you will certainly hit that leucine requirement. Nothing wrong with knowing an exact amount of calories you are consuming, but it is good to generally know an average. Nothing wrong with meat, veggies, potatoes and rice.

 

[nãomiguel]

Your weight? I would increase meat/protein per meal. Minimum 6oz per meal. I personally try to do 8oz + per meal. To optimize mTOR/muscle protein synthesis, there is a certain amount of leucine you must get in a meal to do that. Typically it is 2.5g of leucine per meal. If you increase your protein content per meal, you will certainly hit that leucine requirement. Nothing wrong with knowing an exact amount of calories you are consuming, but it is good to generally know an average. Nothing wrong with meat, veggies, potatoes and rice.

I've been stuck @ 189-193 for months, lol. Seems I've leaned up around the midsection, but definitely been a slow burn. Maybe noticed a slight quickening when I up the cardio, esp post-workout. Will up the protein with each meal and see what happens!

 

[ValiantThor08]

I've been stuck @ 189-193 for months, lol. Seems I've leaned up around the midsection, but definitely been a slow burn. Maybe noticed a slight quickening when I up the cardio, esp post-workout. Will up the protein with each meal and see what happens!

If you have been stuck, upping the protein should certainly help add lean mass, training dependent.

 

[LeanEngineer]

I'd take a month or two break and then jump on some massmax xt and/or anafuse.

 

[Resolve10]

Typically I think people should empower themselves to research what they are using well enough that they get an understanding of what each thing is doing.

Natural anabolics is such a wide blanket category that it encompasses too many things to make wide sweeping generalizations.

In general after 8-12 weeks of a product/ingredient in this type of category then at least a 4 week break.

You can get away with using products with different MOA for longer periods if they don't really overlap in that sense, IMHO.

Honestly though it sounds a bit like you may have been spinning your wheels if your weight was just fluctuating up and down. I find it best to pick a goal/direction and focus on that.

Despite saying you focus on a lots of protein, and I don't want to get too off track from the original topic, the diet you posted honestly looks a little light in that regards to me. I'd focus on getting that a bit inline and then things may move more positively.

 

[nãomiguel]

Typically I think people should empower themselves to research what they are using well enough that they get an understanding of what each thing is doing.

Natural anabolics is such a wide blanket category that it encompasses too many things to make wide sweeping generalizations.

In general after 8-12 weeks of a product/ingredient in this type of category then at least a 4 week break.

You can get away with using products with different MOA for longer periods if they don't really overlap in that sense, IMHO.

Honestly though it sounds a bit like you may have been spinning your wheels if your weight was just fluctuating up and down. I find it best to pick a goal/direction and focus on that.

Despite saying you focus on a lots of protein, and I don't want to get too off track from the original topic, the diet you posted honestly looks a little light in that regards to me. I'd focus on getting that a bit inline and then things may move more positively.

Listen, my son. I don't mean to suggest that nothing has happened in the intervening period. I look great, workouts banging like woah. Believe me.. fam.. I am getting after it. Workout like a fucking animal. Eat real good. Steak and shrimps. Hittin' 9s or better. I'm just also a real humble-type dude so I try to dial it in a bit, say it just went ok. Thankfully we both agree some time off the other stuff could be good.

I suppose I just wondered if Epicatechin and Laxogenin needed cycling -vs- the Urobolin in Ep1logue and Massacr3. I've been led to believe I could run either for longer but one might be better for cutting and the other for bulking? To be fair I also agree with you I should pick one and go that way.

Honestly, my diet is locked tight for not counting calories. Let's recap...

• a Multi
• B-complex
• Vitamin E + ALA and other Antioxidants!
• Aminos: Glutamine, L-Arginine, L-Lysine, L-Ornithine, L-Carnatine, β-Alanine
• BCAAs
• Greens
• DHEA
• MSM
• Colloidal Trace Minerals
• Calcium d-Glucarate (because PET hates us)
• Turmeric, Maca, and many fine extracts

and that's before I eat all the lean fish and meats, veggies, fruits, nuts, lentils and beans, legumes, mf'n greens and chickens, yogurt, some cheese. Mmm... that's that good! I could do better but come on, bredren, this diet is solid even if I'm overeating/undereating. Based on my weight not changing much I assume I'm eating maintenance.

 

[ItalOne]

Listen, my son. I don't mean to suggest that nothing has happened in the intervening period. I look great, workouts banging like woah. Believe me.. fam.. I am getting after it. Workout like a fucking animal. Eat real good. Steak and shrimps. Hittin' 9s or better. I'm just also a real humble-type dude so I try to dial it in a bit, say it just went ok. Thankfully we both agree some time off the other stuff could be good.

I suppose I just wondered if Epicatechin and Laxogenin needed cycling -vs- the Urobolin in Ep1logue and Massacr3. I've been led to believe I could run either for longer but one might be better for cutting and the other for bulking? To be fair I also agree with you I should pick one and go that way.

Honestly, my diet is locked tight for not counting calories. Let's recap...

• a Multi
• B-complex
• Vitamin E + ALA and other Antioxidants!
• Aminos: Glutamine, L-Arginine, L-Lysine, L-Ornithine, L-Carnatine, β-Alanine
• BCAAs
• Greens
• DHEA
• MSM
• Colloidal Trace Minerals
• Calcium d-Glucarate (because PET hates us)
• Turmeric, Maca, and many fine extracts

and that's before I eat all the lean fish and meats, veggies, fruits, nuts, lentils and beans, legumes, mf'n greens and chickens, yogurt, some cheese. Mmm... that's that good! I could do better but come on, bredren, this diet is solid even if I'm overeating/undereating. Based on my weight not changing much I assume I'm eating maintenance.

My advice is to take a few months off ALL those F@wking supplements. Good lord!! It must have cost you $500 dollars for those 2lbs. Get on a serious program. Heavy lifting 6 days a week with 1/2 hour of HIT cardio while eating at 500 -700 cal Over maintenance. Don’t guess your macros anymore. Get an App and keep of track everything.

I suggest more food, a quality isolate protein and EAA’s . I guarantee you will get stronger and more cut then running all that crap!!

 

[Resolve10]

Not even sure where to go with this.

You literally just spent more time typing out your supplements than you did on your diet AND it should be diet BEFORE all those not listing them then saying “and that’s before my diet”...that’s kind of backwards.

From the original post on diet it just seemed pretty low on protein based on what was listed, but if not the case then fine.

Yes for UroB I’d take 4 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. Some things like Epicatechin and Laxogenin you may be able to use for longer periods of time.

 

[LeanEngineer]

Yes for UroB I’d take 4 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. Some things like Epicatechin and Laxogenin you may be able to use for longer periods of time.

Agreed with this. Definitely an epi/laxo supp you are extend for longer periods of time but this supp I'd recommend taking a break.

 

[nãomiguel]

Not even sure where to go with this.

You literally just spent more time typing out your supplements than you did on your diet AND it should be diet BEFORE all those not listing them then saying “and that’s before my diet”...that’s kind of backwards.

From the original post on diet it just seemed pretty low on protein based on what was listed, but if not the case then fine.

Yes for UroB I’d take 4 weeks off every 8-12 weeks. Some things like Epicatechin and Laxogenin you may be able to use for longer periods of time.

Little bro, listen, we all get there different ways. I'm eating real good, but your points are all well taken. Maybe I'll get an app and count some calories, eat a few more servings of veggies and lean meats, we'll see. But there's still a lot to gain here. This thread is dying for ur future gains. Those vitamins and minerals aren't even about bodybuilding, per se. That's just about good health, nephew. I'd never take another fitness supplement before I stop taking basic vitamins and minerals, cuzzo. That stuff I'm taking costs maybe $100 at your local natural grocer and is based on a gang of research. My small friend, honestly, half of it *you* should be taking for your general well-being. Consider...

A Multi will help fill in whatever gaps you have from eating pizza and chips, drinking beer, fatty burgers and ice cream with some basic becky. All the stuff I don't eat because I eat fresh salmon from the sea, or a head of cauliflower, or like a small lamb from the field.

B-complex because duh.

Vitamin E builds up the membrane in all the cells in your body, and when free radicals come along E gives up its electron so your cells don't have to. And ALA recharges it so it can do it again and again.

Grape seed extract, olive extract, green tea extract, resveratrol, different polyphenols, family, not only are they just great antioxidants, but they're natural aromatase inhibitors also. Tack on turmeric for inflamation, maca for vitality, and some cinnamon, peppermint, black pepper, etc to speed things along.

Creatine is the most researched and proven sports supplement there is. ur Krebs cycle will thank you.

Calcium d-Glucarate is a powerful antioxidant, clears PET out of your cells from all that shitty bottled water. Some research even suggests it can inhibit metastasizing of cancer cells. (On that note, smokers who supplemented Vitamin E had higher incidence of cancer)

and trace minerals, my guy, because the state don't love u. That water is poison. And MSM I take because I messed my foot up. That sulfur gonna help my connective tissues work it out, tho.

 

[ItalOne]

Little bro, listen, we all get there different ways. I'm eating real good, but your points are all well taken. Maybe I'll get an app and count some calories, eat a few more servings of veggies and lean meats, we'll see. But there's still a lot to gain here. This thread is dying for ur future gains. Those vitamins and minerals aren't even about bodybuilding, per se. That's just about good health, nephew. I'd never take another fitness supplement before I stop taking basic vitamins and minerals, cuzzo. That stuff I'm taking costs maybe $100 at your local natural grocer and is based on a gang of research. My small friend, honestly, half of it *you* should be taking for your general well-being. Consider...

A Multi will help fill in whatever gaps you have from eating pizza and chips, drinking beer, fatty burgers and ice cream with some basic becky. All the stuff I don't eat because I eat fresh salmon from the sea, or a head of cauliflower, or like a small lamb from the field.

B-complex because duh.

Vitamin E builds up the membrane in all the cells in your body, and when free radicals come along E gives up its electron so your cells don't have to. And ALA recharges it so it can do it again and again.

Grape seed extract, olive extract, green tea extract, resveratrol, different polyphenols, family, not only are they just great antioxidants, but they're natural aromatase inhibitors also. Tack on turmeric for inflamation, maca for vitality, and some cinnamon, peppermint, black pepper, etc to speed things along.

Creatine is the most researched and proven sports supplement there is. ur Krebs cycle will thank you.

Calcium d-Glucarate is a powerful antioxidant, clears PET out of your cells from all that shitty bottled water. Some research even suggests it can inhibit metastasizing of cancer cells. (On that note, smokers who supplemented Vitamin E had higher incidence of cancer)

and trace minerals, my guy, because the state don't love u. That water is poison. And MSM I take because I messed my foot up. That sulfur gonna help my connective tissues work it out, tho.

Wow you sure your not a rep? That some funny ****!!

 

[soxbsbll05]

Little bro, listen, we all get there different ways. I'm eating real good, but your points are all well taken. Maybe I'll get an app and count some calories, eat a few more servings of veggies and lean meats, we'll see. But there's still a lot to gain here. This thread is dying for ur future gains. Those vitamins and minerals aren't even about bodybuilding, per se. That's just about good health, nephew. I'd never take another fitness supplement before I stop taking basic vitamins and minerals, cuzzo. That stuff I'm taking costs maybe $100 at your local natural grocer and is based on a gang of research. My small friend, honestly, half of it *you* should be taking for your general well-being. Consider...

A Multi will help fill in whatever gaps you have from eating pizza and chips, drinking beer, fatty burgers and ice cream with some basic becky. All the stuff I don't eat because I eat fresh salmon from the sea, or a head of cauliflower, or like a small lamb from the field.

B-complex because duh.

Vitamin E builds up the membrane in all the cells in your body, and when free radicals come along E gives up its electron so your cells don't have to. And ALA recharges it so it can do it again and again.

Grape seed extract, olive extract, green tea extract, resveratrol, different polyphenols, family, not only are they just great antioxidants, but they're natural aromatase inhibitors also. Tack on turmeric for inflamation, maca for vitality, and some cinnamon, peppermint, black pepper, etc to speed things along.

Creatine is the most researched and proven sports supplement there is. ur Krebs cycle will thank you.

Calcium d-Glucarate is a powerful antioxidant, clears PET out of your cells from all that shitty bottled water. Some research even suggests it can inhibit metastasizing of cancer cells. (On that note, smokers who supplemented Vitamin E had higher incidence of cancer)

and trace minerals, my guy, because the state don't love u. That water is poison. And MSM I take because I messed my foot up. That sulfur gonna help my connective tissues work it out, tho.

Lol

 

[Resolve10]

Lol

I may have missed the memo and think I got trapped in a troll thread.

 

[ItalOne]

I may have missed the memo and think I got trapped in a troll thread.

Why because his macros are that of a 8 year old girl?

 

[ValiantThor08]

This is an interesting thread. Eat more food I guess is the take away. If you have money to spend on supplements, continue laxo/epi products.