Guest viewing is limited

Anyone do 2 SD cycles yet? Dissapointed with my 2'nd cycle

nas7

Board Supporter
Well i loved SD my first cycle gained 12lbs, lost 4 during PCT, did full PCT took 4 weeks off and now did another 3 week cycle, and gained a total of.........3lbs.....which will probably go away during PCT. Diet has been the same, around 3500 cals, i really havent changed anything just felt like the second time around SD did a lot less. Go figure.
 
Well, u need to take body composition measurements before and after.

You could have lost fat and gained muscle, but it's impossible to tell if you didn't atleast take measurements.

3lbs is good anyway, IF you keep it and it is LBM.
 
The closer you get to your potential the harder it is to put on mass so diminishing returns are expected, but one other thing you have to think about is that you are carrying around an extra 8lbs. If your diet is the same as it was before when you tried to bulk a smaller % of those calories are going toward supporting new growth because it now takes you more just to maintain that extra poundage you put on.
 
natiels said:
The closer you get to your potential the harder it is to put on mass so diminishing returns are expected, but one other thing you have to think about is that you are carrying around an extra 8lbs. If your diet is the same as it was before when you tried to bulk a smaller % of those calories are going toward supporting new growth because it now takes you more just to maintain that extra poundage you put on.

agreed. the more you weigh, the more you eat to keep gaining.
 
I have the same thing... I am gaining, but not a s much as on the first cycle.
After this 3on-3off-3on thing I´ll take 6 month break to let my receptors rest a bit...
 
You all might want to reconsider the 3 on 3 off 3 on (or whatever other variation thereof). There was some more bloodwork posted recently after a 4 weeker of SD, and the lipid profiles came back very very bad (HDL in the single digits and LDL over 200).
 
I am at 186lbs right now, 7BF. BF didnt drop, but its always been low. I will take a 3 month break too i think.
 
Ator said:
I have the same thing... I am gaining, but not a s much as on the first cycle. After this 3on-3off-3on thing I´ll take 6 month break to let my receptors rest a bit...
Taking a long break is a fine enough idea, but don't tell yourself it is to let your receptors rest. That doesn't make any sense.
 
strat, sorry if this question seems low level, but can you please
elaborate on your comment?

what would be optimal time to let receptors rest?
 
Strateg0s said:
Taking a long break is a fine enough idea, but don't tell yourself it is to let your receptors rest. That doesn't make any sense.

OK, english is not my language, so it might have sounded a bit wrong... what i mean is to let my system recover.
 
nas7 said:
Well i loved SD my first cycle gained 12lbs, lost 4 during PCT, did full PCT took 4 weeks off and now did another 3 week cycle, and gained a total of.........3lbs.....which will probably go away during PCT. Diet has been the same, around 3500 cals, i really havent changed anything just felt like the second time around SD did a lot less. Go figure.

You just gave the answer to your own complaint.

Your calories were the same!
You have more lean muscle now and thus your metabolism will increase.

So you will need more calories than before to grow even bigger, it's really quite simple.
The bigger you get, the more you need to eat to get even bigger. :think:
 
Yeah but guys i was already eating like 6 meals a day and 2 protein shakes, any more food would basically be a full time job. Food is fuckin expensive too ;) Time to get a job at McD's and eat grilled chicken breasts on the house all day.
 
Enigma76 said:
There was some more bloodwork posted recently after a 4 weeker of SD, and the lipid profiles came back very very bad (HDL in the single digits and LDL over 200).
As mentioned in that thread, I will mention it again here; that was HIS lipid profile after HIS 4 weeks on SD. To make a general blanket statement that ALL will respond the same is an error.
 
nas7 said:
Well i loved SD my first cycle gained 12lbs, lost 4 during PCT, did full PCT took 4 weeks off and now did another 3 week cycle, and gained a total of.........3lbs.....which will probably go away during PCT. Diet has been the same, around 3500 cals, i really havent changed anything just felt like the second time around SD did a lot less. Go figure.


Same here, almost exactly. I still gained strength the second cycle. In my opinion, 2 weeks is not enough time off.
Bloodtest results this week
 
4 days into my PCT, back to 184lbs, upped my cals. So i am back where i started. I am doing both 6oxo and Nolva BTW. That first cycle just made it seem like gains are easy on this stuff... hmm maybe next time i will try 30mg and 4000cals a day. Still happy with SD and strenght is up, but this is a bit puzzling.
 
I think most of these guy's hit your problem right on the head. DC has a saying that fits this "If you want to be 220lbs eat like a 240lber"
 
I certainly was, carrot cake, cheesecake, 5000calories - I ended up losing fat and gaining strength. It wasn't supposed to be a cutting cycle but it came out that way!
 
So you ate the same and didn't gain. I see the problem right here.

Even without androgens I put on just over 1lb/week on a bulk, so if you didn't gain, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANDROGENS. I can't believe how many very smart people miss this concept.
 
B5150 said:
As mentioned in that thread, I will mention it again here; that was HIS lipid profile after HIS 4 weeks on SD. To make a general blanket statement that ALL will respond the same is an error.
I understand this, as I did not make any blanket statement. I solely said that people might want to reconsider the 3 on 3 off 3 on cycles, as if their lipid profiles took a beating then I am not sure if 3 weeks off is enough to get back to equilibrium (based upon more bloodwork). However, I have seen 3 bloodworks for SD (soon to be four when Deoudes gets his back). Yours was the only one where lipid profiles werent too adversely effected. The other two had VERY bad effects.

Assuming that most SD users (or PH users for that matter) don't get bloodwork done, I think it in peoples best interests to assume the worst. Preparing for the worst, by having a regimen of lipid profile "fixers" (such as RYR) as well as a sound diet after a cycle, couldnt hurt, regardless of whether their lipid profiles took a beating or not.

So, I would now like to make a blanket statement solely as a precautionary measure here. I understand that saying "If you take SD, you will mess up your lipid profile" is wrong. However, saying "If you take SD, you might mess up your lipid profile" isnt wrong at all. Without doing bloodwork, there is no way to tell. So if a SD user doesn't get bloodwork (IMHO anyone who doesn't definately should), I just feel that they should expect the worst but hope for the best.
 
Enigma76 said:
I understand this, as I did not make any blanket statement. I solely said that people might want to reconsider the 3 on 3 off 3 on cycles, as if their lipid profiles took a beating then I am not sure if 3 weeks off is enough to get back to equilibrium (based upon more bloodwork). However, I have seen 3 bloodworks for SD (soon to be four when Deoudes gets his back). Yours was the only one where lipid profiles werent too adversely effected. The other two had VERY bad effects.

Assuming that most SD users (or PH users for that matter) don't get bloodwork done, I think it in peoples best interests to assume the worst. Preparing for the worst, by having a regimen of lipid profile "fixers" (such as RYR) as well as a sound diet after a cycle, couldnt hurt, regardless of whether their lipid profiles took a beating or not.

So, I would now like to make a blanket statement solely as a precautionary measure here. I understand that saying "If you take SD, you will mess up your lipid profile" is wrong. However, saying "If you take SD, you might mess up your lipid profile" isnt wrong at all. Without doing bloodwork, there is no way to tell. So if a SD user doesn't get bloodwork (IMHO anyone who doesn't definately should), I just feel that they should expect the worst but hope for the best.
Understood. I think far too many do not realize the effects that any and all steroids do to their lipids. The wide spread availablilty of these OTC has a dilusional effect on those who are ignorant to these issues. The assumption that I can (could) buy it legal has most thinking its safe. We jumped from trans 1-test to M1T to methyl-tom-dick-and-harry overnight. There are many individuals who have no idea what they are getting themselves into using these products. We are in agreement. I believe that cycle planning/costing should have 1.)bloodwork, 2.)PCT, 3.)androgen, 4.)bloodwork. Sad thing is that in reality most are low funded living at mom's who scrape up enough allowance and baby sitting money to get "the-methyl-bomb" that they can afford. </end rant>
 
B5150 said:
Understood. I think far too many do not realize the effects that any and all steroids do to their lipids. The wide spread availablilty of these OTC has a dilusional effect on those who are ignorant to these issues. The assumption that I can (could) buy it legal has most thinking its safe. We jumped from trans 1-test to M1T to methyl-tom-dick-and-harry overnight. There are many individuals who have no idea what they are getting themselves into using these products. We are in agreement. I believe that cycle planning/costing should have 1.)bloodwork, 2.)PCT, 3.)androgen, 4.)bloodwork. Sad thing is that in reality most are low funded living at mom's who scrape up enough allowance and baby sitting money to get "the-methyl-bomb" that they can afford. </end rant>

Good. Sorry if I came off alittle defensive, its just I always feel that people wont listen to my opinion because of my age. I am, in life, always a "plan for the worst but hope for the best" kind of person. It makes the bad seem not so bad and the good seem really good. Pretty cynical but it works for me.


Two things as an aside; have you seen any SD bloodwork in relation to hormone levels? And do you know of any places I could find potential reasons why taking AAS produces such negative effects on lipid profiles? I know test is made from cholesterol, but I dont think that has any relevance to the reason something like SD could cause such drastic drops in HDL.
 
Yeah but guys i was already eating like 6 meals a day and 2 protein shakes, any more food would basically be a full time job. Food is fuckin expensive too ;) Time to get a job at McD's and eat grilled chicken breasts on the house all day

Getting and staying Huge is not cheap. The bigger you get the more expensive just to maintain. If you ever get 220lbs ++ you will see what I mean.


At your weight 10mg's a day of SD should be enough. Its all I used for a couple of weeks and I went from 240 to 250 and kept it.
Its some powerful **** but you cannot expect it to do all the work for you.
 
Enigma76 said:
Good. Sorry if I came off alittle defensive
likewise, my offensiveness.
have you seen any SD bloodwork in relation to hormone levels?
No.
And do you know of any places I could find potential reasons why taking AAS produces such negative effects on lipid profiles? I know test is made from cholesterol, but I dont think that has any relevance to the reason something like SD could cause such drastic drops in HDL.
Surely a search will find this for you. I would have to do the same to provide supportive data. I believe it is related to the actions and/or byproducts of what takes place in the liver. I'm not an expert by any stretch.
 
Here's what I can vaguely recall about AS and lipid profiles.

During AS use total cholesterol tends to increase while HDL levels decline quite markedly, oftentimes below the normal range.(ie into the single digits as some bloodwork has reaffirmed).

Total cholesterol is affected by the type of exercise done. Aerobic exercise can offset and even result in the decline of total cholesterol levels. HDL levels are unaffected by aerobic exercise though.

AS affect hepatic triglyceride lipase(HTL) and lipoprotein lipase(LP). HTL is responsible for clearance of HDL-cholesterol. LP regulates cellular uptake of free fatty acids and glycerol. Since AS stimulate HTL we see a marked decreased in serum levels of HDL-cholesterol.
 
Invalid Link Removed
Serum Lipoproteins and the Cardiovascular System
AS also affect the cardiovascular system and the serum lipid profile. Relatively few studies have been done to investigate the effect of anabolic steroids on the cardiovascular system. No longitudinal studies have been conducted on the effect of anabolic steroids on cardiovascular morbidity and mortality.

Most of the investigations have been focused on risk factors for cardiovascular diseases, and in particular the effect of anabolic steroids on blood pressure and on plasma lipoproteins. In most cross-sectional studies serum cholesterol and triglycerides between drug-free users and non-users is not different. However, during anabolic steroid use total cholesterol tends to increase, while HDL-cholesterol demonstrates a marked decline, well below the normal range. Serum LDL-cholesterol shows a variable response: a slight increase or no change. The response of total cholesterol seems to be influenced by the type of training that is done by the athlete. When a great deal of the exercise consists of aerobic exercise, the increasing effect of AS is counterbalanced by an exercise-induced increasing effect, which may result in a net decline in total cholesterol. Aerobic training does not seem to be able to offset the steroid-induced decline in HDL-cholesterol and its subfractions HDL-2, and HDL-3.

The precise effect of anabolic steroids on LDL-cholesterol is unknown yet. It appears that anabolic steroids influence hepatic triglyceride lipase (HTL) and lipoprotein lipase (LPL). Males usually have higher levels of HTL, while females have higher LPL activity. HTL is primarily responsible for the clearance of HDL-cholesterol, while LPL takes care of cellular uptake of free fatty acids and glycerol. Androgens and anabolic steroids stimulate HTL, presumably resulting in decreased serum levels of HDL-cholesterol.

The effect of anabolic steroids on triglycerides is not well known. It is suggested that relatively low doses do not affect the serum triglyceride levels, while it cannot be excluded that higher doses elicit an increase.

No unanimity exists about the influence of anabolic steroids on arterial blood pressure. The response is most probably dose dependent. There is some data suggesting that high doses increase diastolic blood pressure, whereas low doses fail to have a significant effect on diastolic blood pressure. Increases in diastolic blood pressure normalize within 6-8 weeks after abstinence from anabolic steroids. It appears that repeated intermittent use of anabolic steroids does not affect diastolic blood pressure during drug free periods.

There is evidence that the use of anabolic steroids does elicit structural changes in the heart and that the ischemic tolerance is decreased after steroid use. Echocardiographic studies in bodybuilders, using anabolic steroids, reported a mild hypertrophy of the left ventricle, with a decreased diastolic relaxation, resulting in a decreased diastolic filling. Some investigators have associated cardiomyopathy, myocardial infarction, and cerebro-vascular accidents with abuse of anabolic steroids. However, a possible causal relationship could not been proved, because longitudinal studies that are necessary to prove such a relationship, have not been conducted yet. There is convincing evidence that oral administration of anabolic steroids has stronger adverse effects on the mentioned variables than parenteral administration.

Although the effects of anabolic steroids have an unfavorable influence on the risk factors for cardiovascular disease, no data are available about the long term effects. Most of the mentioned effects appear to reverse within 6-8 weeks after abstention. It is unknown, however, whether the structural changes as reported in the heart, are reversible as well.
 
Thank you very much B5150. That about sums it up I think.

Postulating here, did you do lots of cardio on your cycle? I'm wondering if maybe those users with really nasty cholesterol values are getting them because of the absence of cardio (because most of them use SD for bulking)?
 
Enigma76 said:
Thank you very much B5150. That about sums it up I think.

Postulating here, did you do lots of cardio on your cycle? I'm wondering if maybe those users with really nasty cholesterol values are getting them because of the absence of cardio (because most of them use SD for bulking)?
Zip-O on the cardio. Though lots of Fish oil and XV Olive Oil.
 
Back
Top