“Clean” energy hardcore pre-workouts

New guy

New guy

Active member
Looking for a good hardcore pre for max out days. Currently running Crack OG (dirty energy) and Dust X (doesn’t hit quite hard enough). I ran quite a few DMAA pre’s back in the day but all the ones I have tried are gone now. Jack3d OG gave me clean, long lasting energy with no aggressive crash, and I’m looking for something similar.

I think I’ll avoid the gamble on new Excelsior for the price. Anyone tried the latest batches of CRZ OG? Seen some Reddit reviews saying it’s been good lately but I don’t trust Reddit very strongly.

Open to any suggestions. Yohimbine isn’t a dealbreaker but I prefer to add my own Yohimbine caps to control the dose.
 
New guy said:
Looking for a good hardcore pre for max out days. Currently running Crack OG (dirty energy) and Dust X (doesn’t hit quite hard enough). I ran quite a few DMAA pre’s back in the day but all the ones I have tried are gone now. Jack3d OG gave me clean, long lasting energy with no aggressive crash, and I’m looking for something similar.

I think I’ll avoid the gamble on new Excelsior for the price. Anyone tried the latest batches of CRZ OG? Seen some Reddit reviews saying it’s been good lately but I don’t trust Reddit very strongly.

Open to any suggestions. Yohimbine isn’t a dealbreaker but I prefer to add my own Yohimbine caps to control the dose.
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I'm not really a stim guy, but clean energy when I need it is a valuable thing.

Following.
 
New guy said:
Looking for a good hardcore pre for max out days. Currently running Crack OG (dirty energy) and Dust X (doesn’t hit quite hard enough). I ran quite a few DMAA pre’s back in the day but all the ones I have tried are gone now. Jack3d OG gave me clean, long lasting energy with no aggressive crash, and I’m looking for something similar.

I think I’ll avoid the gamble on new Excelsior for the price. Anyone tried the latest batches of CRZ OG? Seen some Reddit reviews saying it’s been good lately but I don’t trust Reddit very strongly.

Open to any suggestions. Yohimbine isn’t a dealbreaker but I prefer to add my own Yohimbine caps to control the dose.
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I’m not a stim guy either so I may not be the best reply, but nootropics depot dynamax ultra Is pretty legit. It has Zum xr caffeine which I really like because it sees to last way longer. Since it is sustained release I feel like it helps taper off the caffeine crash when it wears off. It Also has L Theanine in it to help with the clean feeling/no jitters. I know some people aren’t fans of L theanine mixed with caffeine but I personally like the combo. Maybe because I’m more sensitive to stims these days.

Edit: I also like that it’s caps and just a couple stims, you can always add it to a pump product and make a homemade preworkout more personalized.
 
I have been thinking about picking up the Crack Cartel edition. I really used to like the centurion labz god of rage before they redid the formula. Been using N.Otorious Rage this last go around and its not bad, but it doesn't hit hard either. The "new" firestorm is meh at best for me. The new dark energy was too much for me when I sampled it fwiw
 
AwakeningAlpha said:
a Gorilla Mind for caffeine and dopamine
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This. Lots of good feels on Gorilla Mind plus the formula is stacked for performance. This is only higher end PWO I've tried in a while.

I had a sample of Mutant Mind Fk. It is good clean energy that really gets you in the zone but sounds like it doesn't pack the punch you want.

Lots of people rave about Muscle Addiction Pump Addict but I haven't tried it with the Alpha Yohimbe.
 
I actually went through a tub of Core Fury, pretty stacked formula with great energy. I'd still give the edge to Gorilla Mind.

Apollon makes a few PWOs that are stacked to the max. I haven't tried them, but they might be of interest to you.
 
3ChainedAminos said:
I’m not a stim guy either so I may not be the best reply, but nootropics depot dynamax ultra Is pretty legit. It has Zum xr caffeine which I really like because it sees to last way longer. Since it is sustained release I feel like it helps taper off the caffeine crash when it wears off. It Also has L Theanine in it to help with the clean feeling/no jitters. I know some people aren’t fans of L theanine mixed with caffeine but I personally like the combo. Maybe because I’m more sensitive to stims these days.

Edit: I also like that it’s caps and just a couple stims, you can always add it to a pump product and make a homemade preworkout more personalized.
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This is an interesting one, could pair it with a pump pre for the best of both worlds. It’s pretty cost effective too.

How does it compare to an energy drink in the same caffeine range for overall energy and motivation? I have a pretty high tolerance for caffeine which leaves me using other stims when I need a noticeable boost
 
littlrook said:
I have been thinking about picking up the Crack Cartel edition.
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littlrook said:
The new dark energy was too much for me when I sampled it fwiw
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If you do try the Cartel edition let us know how it treats you. Crack OG gives me insane energy but is one of the hardest on me in terms of anxiety and restlessness.

New Dark Energy? I haven’t seen one since they pulled the OG DMAA version off the market. Who makes the new one?
 
For everyone that mentioned Gorilla Mind, that one sounds like a fairly unanimous good review. Might have to pick that up and stack some Eria caps on top if it’s a little lacking in Stim like was mentioned above.
 
New guy said:
This is an interesting one, could pair it with a pump pre for the best of both worlds. It’s pretty cost effective too.

How does it compare to an energy drink in the same caffeine range for overall energy and motivation? I have a pretty high tolerance for caffeine which leaves me using other stims when I need a noticeable boost
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Back in the day I drank up to 3-4 Celsius or 2-3 white monsters in one day. It’s comparable to in terms of stimulation, but it lasts way longer in my opinion per dose. I wish zum xr came in standalone but I haven’t found any yet. I think this is the route because like you said, you could pair it with pump for lifting, or take it standalone for work/Study/ whenever you need go go Juice.
 
New guy said:
Looking for a good hardcore pre for max out days. Currently running Crack OG (dirty energy) and Dust X (doesn’t hit quite hard enough). I ran quite a few DMAA pre’s back in the day but all the ones I have tried are gone now. Jack3d OG gave me clean, long lasting energy with no aggressive crash, and I’m looking for something similar.

I think I’ll avoid the gamble on new Excelsior for the price. Anyone tried the latest batches of CRZ OG? Seen some Reddit reviews saying it’s been good lately but I don’t trust Reddit very strongly.

Open to any suggestions. Yohimbine isn’t a dealbreaker but I prefer to add my own Yohimbine caps to control the dose.
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I also prefer formulas without yohimbine and definitely without Alpha-Y which seems to be what everyone puts in their "hardcore" stim products these days. For me that automatically makes it feel dirty / jittery so usually rules it out for me.


littlrook said:
I have been thinking about picking up the Crack Cartel edition. I really used to like the centurion labz god of rage before they redid the formula. Been using N.Otorious Rage this last go around and its not bad, but it doesn't hit hard either. The "new" firestorm is meh at best for me. The new dark energy was too much for me when I sampled it fwiw
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NOtorious Rage was pretty underwhelming IMO.

Top two clean feeling, high stim for me are still Zeus - not cracked out strong - but performance wise seems to do the trick. And lately Mr White is just about perfect. Would recommend OP!

I also have Doomsday, which is fairly decent. More on them milder side. Smash AMF was too dirty feel for me. And Decim8 is a pretty good one if you titrate it right, but it gummed up towards the end.
 
@3ChainedAminos I was a 2-3 Celsius a day guy for a while, up to 3 Reign at my worst. I’m very intrigued and see Zum XR in a handful of preworkouts now too. I’ve worked down to one energy drink and/or my preworkout somedays. I’ve used the Muscle Addiction ECA stack which is Eria and caffeine, I’d love to try that with a Zum standalone to see if it curbs the crash a bit better.

@Segansational thanks for the detailed response! I haven’t figured out exactly what interacts with Yohimbine for me to give me the jitters and anxiety. Solo it’s completely fine and in some Pre’s it’s okay but others, like Crack OG, it really destroys the balance. If I’m not actively lifting weights after drinking it I’m just not having a good time. Mr white looks like a great stim formula, and I’d never heard of it before. I’m a sucker for blue razz flavored anything.

@Stopstalking2 I was actually looking at that the other day. I got a tub of the Black Market X Panda collab and it’s really solid for a step above a daily driver Pre and tastes amazing. Just enough Eria to give some energy and mood boost but not a massive “kitchen sink” dose. Is the flavor on the skull pretty killer?
 
New guy said:
@3ChainedAminos I was a 2-3 Celsius a day guy for a while, up to 3 Reign at my worst. I’m very intrigued and see Zum XR in a handful of preworkouts now too. I’ve worked down to one energy drink and/or my preworkout somedays. I’ve used the Muscle Addiction ECA stack which is Eria and caffeine, I’d love to try that with a Zum standalone to see if it curbs the crash a bit better.

@Segansational thanks for the detailed response! I haven’t figured out exactly what interacts with Yohimbine for me to give me the jitters and anxiety. Solo it’s completely fine and in some Pre’s it’s okay but others, like Crack OG, it really destroys the balance. If I’m not actively lifting weights after drinking it I’m just not having a good time. Mr white looks like a great stim formula, and I’d never heard of it before. I’m a sucker for blue razz flavored anything.

@Stopstalking2 I was actually looking at that the other day. I got a tub of the Black Market X Panda collab and it’s really solid for a step above a daily driver Pre and tastes amazing. Just enough Eria to give some energy and mood boost but not a massive “kitchen sink” dose. Is the flavor on the skull pretty killer?
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I love the flavors the lemon lime is the worst of them on the skull though.
 
Global Formulas preworkout is INSANE. I can't have Alpha yohimbine tho, makes me want to Cobain myself
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Alright gents, I ordered up a handful of samples to try, including Panda Skull. Got a few that allegedly contain geranium. I stayed away from any that seemed sketchier or couldn’t find reviews on. Also got the new Jack3d… don’t have high hopes but it was cheap for a sample (maybe I’m just sadistic and wanted to see how far the king had fallen). I couldn’t find all the ones I wanted to try in one place but I got a good selection.

If there’s any interest I’d be down to write some shorter reviews on here after trying each.
 
I got the crack cartel edition over the weekend. A few uses in and its smooth, no tunnel vision but a decent mood boost. Please keep in mind I am at the gym at 5am so your experience may vary lol
 
New guy said:
Alright gents, I ordered up a handful of samples to try, including Panda Skull. Got a few that allegedly contain geranium. I stayed away from any that seemed sketchier or couldn’t find reviews on. Also got the new Jack3d… don’t have high hopes but it was cheap for a sample (maybe I’m just sadistic and wanted to see how far the king had fallen). I couldn’t find all the ones I wanted to try in one place but I got a good selection.

If there’s any interest I’d be down to write some shorter reviews on here after trying each.
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Please do!
 
littlrook said:
I got the crack cartel edition over the weekend. A few uses in and its smooth, no tunnel vision but a decent mood boost. Please keep in mind I am at the gym at 5am so your experience may vary lol
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You think it’s worth getting another tub when you finish it, or is it a one and done pre?
 
The samples have arrived!

No hardcore stims
-Gorilla Mode by Gorilla Mind
-Skull by Panda Supps

DMHA
-Jack3d
-Mesomorph V4
-Legit Pre by Legit pharma

Hardcore stims
-Kratos by Beast Coast
-Firestorm by Global Supremecy
-SVG75 by First Choice

It was hard to find a site with samples that had all of the Pre’s on my list. These 8 have 6 that I wanted to try, and then Jack3d and Mesomorph. I have low expectations for both, and they’re both proprietary blends… but my curiosity got the better of me. I avoided any that I couldn’t find info or reviews on, which is most of the newest full blast hardcore pre’s.

Still on the list that I want to try are Mr White and Deliverance.

Testing will start in a couple weeks, I don’t want anything I’m taking now to skew the results. Once I’m off everything and at a good baseline I’ll start posting up on here.

My mini review will be made up of

-Energy 1-5 on the scale
-Focus 1-5
-Taste 1-5
-Crash 1-5
-Pumps 1-5

Followed by a couple sentences about the experience. Pumps definitely aren’t the main goal, but if I can get the mental and the pumps I’d rather get both in one.
 
henm said:
Me 2 I think there was some dhma it was in
Someone can tell what was the secret ingredient that baned?
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It was the amphetamine analog that was in the original Designer Supplements CRAZE
 
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There was one called Hybrid from Kilosports. think it had dmha in it. It was awesome, made you feel euphoric and have ton of clean feeling energy.
The ones I have tried these days are not even remotely close, but they are supposed to have dmha in it.
 
Alright gents, things lined up today and I decided to try Mesomorph V4. I am going to immediately say that this is in my “don’t try again” category.

-Energy: 1
-Focus: 0
-Taste (Pineapple): 3
-Crash: 5
-Pumps: 2

The pineapple flavor was nice, and not a usual flavor I see. It had a short lived bad aftertaste that didn’t linger. The mixing was very poor, I had to shake between sips to get what was settling. Got a little tingle from the Beta alanine at 20 minutes, which went away by 40 minutes. Around a half hour after taking I could feel my heart rate increasing and just a general feeling of uneasy anxiety with some stomach upset. The overall feeling was similar to too much Yohimbine, which is not a product listed on the label. Also not listed on the ingredient panel is caffeine? Odd choice.

I had a good night sleep and was coming off of rest days. After taking this I did not feel more awake or alert, and my focus actually went down, which is why it got a 0 on a 1-5 scale. I got some brain fog and a headache. i cut my workout short because i just could not get into it in any way. I had an aggressive mental crash after every set. The pumps were very basic, a barely noticeable improvement over no preworkout. No mood elevation or standard feelings associated with DMHA.

I laid down for a half hour after stopping my workout and then took my blood pressure. Average of both arms was 148/79. A normal day for me is 128ish/78ish.

Overall I had a bad reaction and experience with this. This actively took away from my workout and only provided me with negative side effects. I had high hopes, as this is generally reviewed positively for what it is. I may have had a bad reaction to dosing of one of the ingredients but I have no idea what because of the proprietary blend.
 
@Renew1 I think Gorilla Mode might be right up your alley. Super clean energy and solid focus.

Gorilla Mode (1 scoop)

-Energy: 3
-Quality of energy (clean): 5
-Focus: 4
-Taste (Jungle Juice): 4
-Crash: 1
-Pumps: 4

Overall very impressive for a conventional pre. The taste might’ve been a 5/5 if it didn’t have coconut (I didn’t have a flavor choice for the sample).

The energy came on about 45 minutes after drinking it. It wasn’t a super pronounced “I’m going to run through a wall” energy. It felt like I got the best night sleep ever and woke up naturally rested before having a really good cup of coffee. No jitters, shakes, noticeable heart rate elevation. I actually added quality of energy to my rating scale after this pre. I had spare energy after my sets and added in some variations of exercises because I wasn’t ready to stop yet. There has been no crash, just a slow ramp back down to baseline.

The focus was very good. I started doing chores while waiting for it to kick in, and my productivity before and after my workout have been fantastic. It’s not a laser focus like on DMAA where it can be similar to tunnel vision, just good general mental clarity.

Pumps came on fast, aggressive, and juicy. My 5/5 for a non hormonal pump product is Alpha One by CEL and this gets shockingly close.

The only negative for me is the Glycerol. At 3g, Glycerol gives me violent stomach problems. One scoop of this has 2g which definitely gave me stomach discomfort but isn’t enough to stop me from happily taking this again. It does however stop me from double scooping which sounds really freaking fun.

BP was 136/73 taken roughly 2 hours after workout, similar timeframe to the Mesomorph.

Summary: Good clean energy, impressive pumps, elevated focus and productivity, makes me fart a lot.
 
New guy said:
@Renew1 I think Gorilla Mode might be right up your alley. Super clean energy and solid focus.

Gorilla Mode (1 scoop)

-Energy: 3
-Quality of energy (clean): 5
-Focus: 4
-Taste (Jungle Juice): 4
-Crash: 1
-Pumps: 4

Overall very impressive for a conventional pre. The taste might’ve been a 5/5 if it didn’t have coconut (I didn’t have a flavor choice for the sample).

The energy came on about 45 minutes after drinking it. It wasn’t a super pronounced “I’m going to run through a wall” energy. It felt like I got the best night sleep ever and woke up naturally rested before having a really good cup of coffee. No jitters, shakes, noticeable heart rate elevation. I actually added quality of energy to my rating scale after this pre. I had spare energy after my sets and added in some variations of exercises because I wasn’t ready to stop yet. There has been no crash, just a slow ramp back down to baseline.

The focus was very good. I started doing chores while waiting for it to kick in, and my productivity before and after my workout have been fantastic. It’s not a laser focus like on DMAA where it can be similar to tunnel vision, just good general mental clarity.

Pumps came on fast, aggressive, and juicy. My 5/5 for a non hormonal pump product is Alpha One by CEL and this gets shockingly close.

The only negative for me is the Glycerol. At 3g, Glycerol gives me violent stomach problems. One scoop of this has 2g which definitely gave me stomach discomfort but isn’t enough to stop me from happily taking this again. It does however stop me from double scooping which sounds really freaking fun.

BP was 136/73 taken roughly 2 hours after workout, similar timeframe to the Mesomorph.

Summary: Good clean energy, impressive pumps, elevated focus and productivity, makes me fart a lot.
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Thanks man!
I'll give it a try!
 
New guy said:
Around a half hour after taking I could feel my heart rate increasing and just a general feeling of uneasy anxiety with some stomach upset. The overall feeling was similar to too much Yohimbine, which is not a product listed on the label. Also not listed on the ingredient panel is caffeine? Odd choice.
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It’s a strange label. They label the caffeine as “methylxanthine anhydrous” to confuse shoppers, but it is disclosed as 300mg to retailers for their marketing. I also believe they extract Yohimbine and/or other yohimbe alkaloids from the Quebracho Blanco bark, they explained doing this before on another Hi Tech Pre.

It’s a legendary name and definitely gets my heart rate up, yet compared to the earlier ones, I have a tub but hardly even get the desire to use it.

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New guy said:
If you do try the Cartel edition let us know how it treats you. Crack OG gives me insane energy but is one of the hardest on me in terms of anxiety and restlessness.

New Dark Energy? I haven’t seen one since they pulled the OG DMAA version off the market. Who makes the new one?
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crack OG almost made throw up I was so wired. not a good experience at all
 
N2ofusion said:
It’s a strange label. They label the caffeine as “methylxanthine anhydrous” to confuse shoppers, but it is disclosed as 300mg to retailers for their marketing. I also believe they extract Yohimbine and/or other yohimbe alkaloids from the Quebracho Blanco bark, they explained doing this before on another Hi Tech Pre.

It’s a legendary name and definitely gets my heart rate up, yet compared to the earlier ones, I have a tub but hardly even get the desire to use it.

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schizm said:
Here's one worth trying out, put together by a local shop owner here in Fort Worth. He has this limited edition version along with a regular version

Full Spectrum Supplements

Full Spectrum Supplements
fullspectrumsupps.com fullspectrumsupps.com
View attachment 260521View attachment 260522
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I picked that one up in a different flavor and it was good for a few uses. After that, the stim effect diminished pretty quick. I do have a high tolerance fwiw
 
N2ofusion said:
It’s a strange label. They label the caffeine as “methylxanthine anhydrous” to confuse shoppers, but it is disclosed as 300mg to retailers for their marketing. I also believe they extract Yohimbine and/or other yohimbe alkaloids from the Quebracho Blanco bark, they explained doing this before on another Hi Tech Pre.
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That’s making more sense now, I had a feeling it had Yohimbine in it. It’s too bad they use proprietary blends, I respond well to low dose Yohimbine but can be really sensitive at normal doses for others.

I would’ve really expected something (anything) from 300mg of caffeine. The shady labeling is going to keep me away from any of their prop blends moving forward after I try the Jack3d sample…
 
I totally understand the prop blend part, but just half scoop them the first time or so. Just gotta dip your tow in first you know lol
 
littlrook said:
I totally understand the prop blend part, but just half scoop them the first time or so. Just gotta dip your tow in first you know lol
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Yeah I definitely screwed the pooch on that one, I didn’t know about the yohimbine and honestly underestimated the pre as a whole. Prop blends have been a long pet peeve of mine. Aggressive Labs used to do a prop blend but disclosed the stimulant dosages which I always appreciated.
 
Firestorm by Global Supremacy. Closest thing I’ve found to OG Jack3d

-Energy: 4.5
-Quality of energy (clean): 4
-Focus: 5
-Taste (Sour Orange Starburst): 4
-Crash: 1
-Pumps: 4

This stuff was incredible. About as much energy as you could expect while staying pretty clean on delivery. Great focus under the weights and productivity after the workout. The flavor was spot on and only had a slight aftertaste that lingered a while.

Took about an hour to fully kick in but then it was game on. 120mg of DMHA and 50mg of 1,3 didn’t overdo it. I had a little bit during the workout where it got a little anxious to keep doing more sets, but that went away quickly after my workout and all is good in the world. Good mood elevation. Felt a bit stronger per scoop than OG Jack3d, but with way better pumps. 2.5mg of Yohimbine HCL is the sweet spot and didn’t hang me up at all.

Pumps came on quick. After my warmup sets I was pushing a couple extra reps on my working weight sets and the pump really blew up.

Met all the expectations for a hardcore Pre, and very low on negatives. This will probably work its way into the rotation for max out or heavy duty days. (Pending the next 5 sample results)
 
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