Andersen2026
New member
I get a jolt of strength from Creatine Monohydrate. More reps, more stamina, quicker strength increases. I am giving HCL a shot, and so far it hasn't produced the same effects.
Creatine HCL
- Thread starter Andersen2026
- Start date
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Again, do what's best for you.
I've explained the differences and how the fluid aspect can impact things.
You said that you're using Allmax's and I can't speak for them and am not trying to. I have no idea what dose you're using, how you're taking it, etc.
I'm not trying to influence you one way or the other, you're not even using our Creatine HCI. Feedback on ours speaks for itself. My posts in this thread are to help people reading and following along.
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LeanEngineer
Legend
It's too cheap and effective to not have it in you daily routine long term!
Andersen2026
New member
The experiment with HCL shows HCL to be lacking. I'm definitely ordering a supply of Creapure Creatine Monohydrate next week. I'll finish out the bottle of HCL, then I'll jump right on the Monohydrate and compare the feeling during lifting.
Andersen2026
New member
Just ordered Creapure Pure German Creatine Monohydrate. I actually ordered a 1.1 lb canister and a jar of 300 capsules for when I'm on the go. Should arrive Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. I will load 20mg per day for 5 days, then run 10mg per day maintenance. I consider Monohydrate to be a wonder drug ESPECIALLY the German Creapure.
skyline999
Member
The grapefruit flavour is top notch! Extra love for it on a warm summer day with ice cold water
Dustin07
Legend
how many mg of each have you historically taken? I was always a non responder at anything less than 10mg despite common claims of "5mg!" what i found in the last couple years is that regular mono can cause me to swell and retain water in a weird way that it never did before, makes my ring tight, etc. whereas HCL does not do that. i still need to take above average mg of either to see results, but I like how HCL works with my body more.
Dustin07
Legend
see thats what I'm talking about. I'd still be taking 6+ probably even on the HCL personally, but I agree on the water issues. I used mono for many years with zero noticeable issues but the last 2 years for whatever reason I noticed that man do I retain water. it was just annoying.
Andersen2026
New member
I'm old school when it comes to Creatine Monohydrate. I load with four 5mg servings per day for 5 days. Then I go to two 5 mg servings per day. I always try to mix with grape juice if possible. I always have a jar of powder in the house plus capsule I can take with me. If I can't use grape juice then Gatorade is the go to. When on Creatine Monohydrate I routinely gain 3 lbs in water weight. When I come off I lose 3 lbs quickly. The energy for extra reps is night and day for me. I didn't get the same effect from HCL.
Dustin07
Legend
I did the same thing for a lot of years although I haven't really added it to sugar with the exception of two periods of life.
a. the celltech years (LOL!!!)
b. my competing years, I'd add it to a scoop of dextrose pre/intra workout
but I also for a long time had great success adding it to an old produce by modern called BCAA+ which I always used on a cut with the theory that the extra aminos were helping to complete protiens I was lacking in a deficit. My experience was that it worked, plus it gave me really good flavored water which helped increase that intake.
I'd still think the solution for you would be to increase dosage on the HCL but you gotta do what feels right.
Resolve10
Member
Nice to see everyone is still feeding the trolls.
Amounts around that have been used in very few studies, but specifically with TBI.
Studies on situations around concussions are still few, but those studies aren't nearly that high, yet still closer to the 20g mark. The rationale is that uptake in the brain is lower than in muscle so you need more to reach this.
For people with those issues the very minor and usually non-existent issues with creatine are typically not worried about or can be worked around. I don't work with concussion treatment much anymore, but I don't think there has been too much extra research I've missed.
Brain and creatine stuff seems to be the rage lately, but people are probably jumping ahead a little. Honestly normal creatine intake is probably useful for a ton of things (and it has potential to be preventative in some of these cases) and probably enough for most people, bumping up only for specific use cases at those times of needs.
Amounts around that have been used in very few studies, but specifically with TBI.
Studies on situations around concussions are still few, but those studies aren't nearly that high, yet still closer to the 20g mark. The rationale is that uptake in the brain is lower than in muscle so you need more to reach this.
For people with those issues the very minor and usually non-existent issues with creatine are typically not worried about or can be worked around. I don't work with concussion treatment much anymore, but I don't think there has been too much extra research I've missed.
Brain and creatine stuff seems to be the rage lately, but people are probably jumping ahead a little. Honestly normal creatine intake is probably useful for a ton of things (and it has potential to be preventative in some of these cases) and probably enough for most people, bumping up only for specific use cases at those times of needs.
Andersen2026
New member
sns8778
Board Sponsor
You started off saying that you didn't want the fluid weight from monohydrate, then complained that you didn't get the initial 'jolt' from HCI that you do from monohydrate which is partially from the fluid weight, to then hyping monohydrate which is what you didn't want to begin with.
It's funny to me that you set up a thread to intentionally troll but it actually had some good conversation, so now you've been trying to like troll your own thread.
Things can be used for different reasons and there are different forms of ingredients.
- Creatine HCI
- Effective dose - 1.5 to 3 grams per day.
- No loading phase required.
- No bloating or digestive issues that some experience with monohydrate.
- Magnesium Creatine Chelate
- Effective dose - 2.5 to 5 grams per day.
- No loading phase.
- No bloating or digestive issues that some experience with monohydrate.
- Creatine Monohydrate:
- Maintenance Dose: 5 grams per day
- Loading Dose (optional): 20 grams per day
Tunaking14
Well-known member
good luck taking 10mg a day. I take 5grams.............................as should everyone.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Except for those of us that get so bloated from it that it looks like we ate a VW Bug lol.
Creatine Mono is great for people that can take it, but Creatine HCI and MCC are great for those of us that get bloated and have stomach issues from monohydrate.
Shadowblaze
Active member
I think he meant 10g lol
Andersen2026
New member
I indicated I was trying Creatine HCI to see if I could get the same performance results as Creatine Monohydrate without the few extra lbs of water weight. I found the Creatine HCI to be wanting and returned to Creatine Monohydrate, deciding the few lbs of water weight is worth the increased performance.
Yes I did mean 10g. 20g loading and 10g maintenance.
LeanEngineer
Legend
Agreed with this!
I think my stomach is a garbage disposal due to taking so much stuff over the years that mono doesn't upset stomach or cause bloating for me personally.
JohnnyBiogenix
New member
From what I’ve seen, most of the “bloating” people notice with creatine monohydrate is usually just intracellular water in the muscle rather than actual subcutaneous water. Many people run mono even during a cut without issues.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Monohydrate is going to cause intracellular water for most anyone.
For those of us that hold a lot of fluid and get bloated badly from Monohydrate, that is not what we are talking about.
It's noticeably obvious in my stomach and waist/stomach size and for many people that experience bloating, it bothers their stomach as well.
Andersen2026
New member
Pizza, donuts and ice cream are what's really causing that
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Pizza, donuts and ice cream are what's really causing that
Nah, pizza is my baseline when not trying to stay very lean, so I notice differences on top of that
At least your sense of humor seems to be better than your reading comprehension.
It's funny how now you seem to want to argue that monohydrate can't causing bloating when you started the whole thread by saying - and this is the exact quote of your post:
I stopped the Creatine Mono to help drop weight. Is it true that HCL is less bloating than the Mono? I have some HCL here and I'm entertaining taking it if it doesn't hold as much water as Mono.
So its ironic that you now try to act like it doesn't.
It's pretty well accepted that monohydrate causes some people to bloat badly from it, just like it's common knowledge for people that research supplements that monohydrate can cause digestive issues in a lot of people. It's not uncommon at all and is why other forms of creatine were developed to begin with.
That doesn't mean monohydrate is worse or better - it means that some people can use it, and some people can't use it without it bothering them. And for those people, there have been some great alternatives developed like Creatine HCI and Magnesium Creatine Chelate.
People should take the form that is best for them and their desired goals and results.
Andersen2026
New member
Dropping weight and having a bloated gut aren't the same thing. I get intramuscular water weight from Creatine Monohydrate. I'm trying to lose a few lbs and I heard HCL causes less water weight. That may be so, but HCL doesn't perform for me like Creatine Monohydrate, so I went back. The 3 lbs of water weight I can live with.Nah, pizza is my baseline when not trying to stay very lean, so I notice differences on top of that
At least your sense of humor seems to be better than your reading comprehension.
It's funny how now you seem to want to argue that monohydrate can't causing bloating when you started the whole thread by saying - and this is the exact quote of your post:
I stopped the Creatine Mono to help drop weight. Is it true that HCL is less bloating than the Mono? I have some HCL here and I'm entertaining taking it if it doesn't hold as much water as Mono.
So its ironic that you now try to act like it doesn't.
It's pretty well accepted that monohydrate causes some people to bloat badly from it, just like it's common knowledge for people that research supplements that monohydrate can cause digestive issues in a lot of people. It's not uncommon at all and is why other forms of creatine were developed to begin with.
That doesn't mean monohydrate is worse or better - it means that some people can use it, and some people can't use it without it bothering them. And for those people, there have been some great alternatives developed like Creatine HCI and Magnesium Creatine Chelate.
People should take the form that is best for them and their desired goals and results.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I try to be nice to and help everyone, but it's obvious that you're just a troll.
I posted in this thread trying to help other people that may be reading or following along. Any more posts from you directed at me and I'm just going to report the posts and move on.
I think I've posted at least 3 times that you, and anyone, needs to use whatever works best for them.
Science is science and facts are facts.
Creatine causes intracellular water retention as part of how it works.
However, for some people, monohydrate causes them to hold a lot of water around their midsection and makes them feel bloated. For others, it can cause stomach upset and bloating related to GI upset. And for some, it can cause fluid retention in the joints to where it affects their mobility and flexibility, which can be particularly detrimental in certain sports or with certain training styles.
For people that can't take or are not comfortable taking monohydrate, its great to have options that are available to them that allow them to use creatine, such as Creatine HCI or Magnesium Creatine Chelate.
newbielifter66
New member
I must be lucky.
I have always dry scooped 6 grams of creatine mono never had gut issues or bloating. Which does make me think maybe i have got some bloating that im actually unaware of.
May be worth giving HCL a shot
I have always dry scooped 6 grams of creatine mono never had gut issues or bloating. Which does make me think maybe i have got some bloating that im actually unaware of.
May be worth giving HCL a shot
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Dustin07
Legend
where I started noticing it was weird places like fingers and face
those are rookie numbers, I used to take 10g minimum, but usually 20g loading phase. And I 100% always swore by higher doses and loading phases despite people saying you just piss out anything over 5g. but results are results, and now suddenly people who take mono are finding benefits from taking higher doses and i'm like well duh. i've been saying that for a decade and a half.
that said, the last couple times i used mono, I swelled up and didn't like it. wasn't worth it to me so the HCI has been a nice compromise, although I also get creatine through a plethora of other supplements.
newbielifter66
New member
Wasn't bragging about 6g bigman lol, was just saying dont feel bloating, maybe ill take 10 a day and see what it does, am curious though, what would you expect to see from 6g to 10g and you said HCL has been a compromise, on what exactly?
Dustin07
Legend
I never noticed anything from any dose of creatine under 10g, personally.
But whether the formulas got changed or my body stopped liking it, after nearly 20 years of using mono I noticed I started getting weird swelling from it. Like I'm ok with water retention in a way that benefits my bigman muscles, but when my fingers are like sausages and my ring hurts, I'm out. with the HCI I don't get any swelling at any dose.
jfigliuolo
Member
Well.... if someone were to get deca dick... perhaps sausage fingers would be a blessing in disguise
newbielifter66
New member
So are you saying under 10g you felt nothing, but 10g or more you felt what exactly? more str?
Dustin07
Legend
correcto
newbielifter66
New member
Might give it a shot then, how long do you reckon it should take before i feel anything if i up it to say 10g from tomorrow on wards.
botk1161
Well-known member
The Troll disappeared.
Andersen2026
New member
I have a different take. I started this thread to discuss my experiment with Creatine HCL. I have been honest and forthright about the results. You have hijacked the thread to peddle your wares. You are transparent. Go ahead and "report" me. The internet is a big place.
Resolve10
Member
You might notice no difference. Once you are saturated it shouldn't really matter, you are just topping it back off with intake. Unless you for some reason aren't absorbing it well, are larger, or somehow train in a way that increases demands you likely won't see a difference. 5-7g is plenty for the vast majority of people and studies have shown as low as 3g can be effective.
I agree most people don't ever have this issue (and I personally don't stop use during weight loss phases), but it isn't 100% just intercellular (and most people's understanding of what that even means is probably lacking).
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32916658/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12937471/
Dustin07
Legend
its this. its subtle.For me it would be that I'd notice training after a few months start to move more linear again, approaching or grabbing PR's. I didn't feel a difference, but sometimes it would be more like getting the 4wd back in gear after spinning in the mud for a few months.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
And my posts have nothing to do with your personal experiment.
I think I'm up to 4 or 5 times now saying that you, like anyone, needs to take what works best for them.
Your experiment used Allmax Creatine HCI - I'm not associated with them and can't speak for them.
I've discussed Con-Cret Creatine HCI (patented by Vireo Systems) and Magnesium Creatine Chelate/Creatine Magnapower (patented by Balchem/Albion).
The information I posted about the ingredients applies to the ingredients themselves; whether someone chooses to buy those ingredients from us or someone else is up to them.
I posted science, not opinions - you're the one that starts in with middle-school type insults.
I don't dislike Creatine Monohydrate myself, I just personally can't use it, so I can relate to the other people that can't use it themselves. We have a new product coming out with it in there soon and also will have it as a single ingredient powder soon as well. We've had a lot of people ask us to do a monohydrate powder with some of our flavor systems and we probably will in the next few months.
Monohydrate is the most common form of creatine and is fine for the people that can take it, but for the people that can't or that it gives them discomfort, its great to have options.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
I’m on HCl year-round
Mono makes me bloated and gives me the sh*ts
Mono makes me bloated and gives me the sh*ts
skyline999
Member
Exactly the same here.
HCL = no bloat + zero sh!ts given
Monohydrate = bloat + plenty of sh!ts given.
For those of you who want to try HCL you could half your dosage of monohydrate and introduce 750-1500 mg of HCL and gauge from there, you’d get a little less bloat but still maintain/increased strength and then decide from there to drop mono and take HCL or drop HCL and take mono or stay on the two and get the best of both worlds.
N2ofusion
Active member
I’ve learned to love HCl. Also, flavoring has come a long way since I first tried a brand of it 12 years ago and it was super sour and bitter.
I’m quite curious about the mega dose conversion. I’ve read large doses can also prevent or reduce depression. If those studies were based on 5-20g of monohydrate, would the HCl dose be 3-10g?
I’m quite curious about the mega dose conversion. I’ve read large doses can also prevent or reduce depression. If those studies were based on 5-20g of monohydrate, would the HCl dose be 3-10g?
Resolve10
Member
Links to any studies that show that high of a dose needed for those benefits? Research is still limited, but 4-6g (or pretty much normal standard dose people recommend) is what I've usually seen (alone or in conjunction with other medications) for this purpose. So theoretically if you think you are getting the same muscular benefits from HCL as CrM you theoretically consuming enough for depression benefits (if there are any) as well.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
I've been seeing that more and more often... people claiming to do 10-20g of mono a day mainly for cognitive benefits and whatnot
curious to know how that conversion would work to HCl as well
sns8778
Board Sponsor
My understanding is that once you are to a certain saturation with monohydrate, that taking more won't help. I could see taking 10 grams a day maintenance, but I couldn't imagine 20 grams being more helpful than 10. I'd have to look at whatever study that was to see if it said 20 long term or if the 20 was a loading phase.
For Creatine HCI, 3 grams is the normal maximum dosage. I've known some people to go up to 5 grams, I've never tried that myself yet.
For Creatine HCI, 3 grams is the normal maximum dosage. I've known some people to go up to 5 grams, I've never tried that myself yet.
N2ofusion
Active member
Unfortunately I have been reading this in the headlines from Yahoo, etc. I don’t have a credible study to share, but there’s lots of internet chatter about it. FWIW, I asked Gemini AI and it cited Reddit as a source.
Resolve10
Member
VVV
Ya there aren't many studies for extended durations. They also aren't all that high of a dose. And finally most of the studies are done (or the ones that show benefit) for specific deficits or conditions, not boosting everyday cognitive abilities.
Unfortunately I have been reading this in the headlines from Yahoo, etc. I don’t have a credible study to share, but there’s lots of internet chatter about it. FWIW, I asked Gemini AI and it cited Reddit as a source.
Ya not trying to pick on you in particular, but this is one of the main reasons I stopped posting here for awhile. Everyone just posts some stupid AI summary and just assumes it is correct (people already post dumb stuff, but I've seen some people on here confidently posting AI answers that have large mistakes). I'm bolding this to say that is a general response, I am not directing this at you personally (or anyone in this comment chain).
That is more of a side thing though, the creatine brain thing has been growing hype for a bit now, but really it just isn't as strongly supported as most out there want to make it (for this particular benefit).
Maybe we'll get more good research to prove some of this later (and that would be great), but for now I don't think it makes sense for people to boost up creatine intake with the hopes of these benefits for now. Makes more sense to just take the usual creatine dose (which honestly some of these few studies were using anyways) and maybe coincidentally get cognitive benefits or to just reach for all the various other supplement options out there that might target specific cognitive benefits one is looking for anyways.