HAVEN’T WEIGHT TRAINED IN 3 YEARS-LOOKING FOR ADVICE TO RESTART

[saderboy80]

Okay, so as the title says I haven’t not weight trained in roughly 3yrs (several surgeries, some unforeseen life events, etc….) No, those aren’t excuses not to workout but I’m being transparent. I have been doing LISS cardio on my Bowflex Treadclimber and between Nov 1st & January 11th, I went from 201 to 150lbs (goal was to drop as much fat as possible but ended up loosing lean mass too).

Now, I am completely recovered from all surgeries (cleared by surgeons, primary care and chiropractor) and ready to put in the work.

I’m thinking start with Push/Pull/Legs and not use any gear for a while?

For example at my peak I was 185lbs @ 7.9% BF (via repeated BodPod tests).
Bench: 350lbs
Squat: 450lbs
Deadlift: 450lbs
Strict Seated Military Press: 225lbs x10

Wasn’t that aesthetically pleasing in my own opinion, kind of blocky with big traps and an 18in neck. Waist was 28in. I do not recall my other measurements but usually biceps are a weak point and upper chest.


Do I go with PPL? Or is that starting off with too much stress on the CNS?
Otherwise would probably do: (back/triceps, legs, shoulders, chest/biceps).


Any advice is appreciated!
Also, if someone does recommend gear, I have quite the lengthy list I can post.

Thank you all! Stay safe and swole!

 

[Shadowblaze]

Okay, so as the title says I haven’t not weight trained in roughly 3yrs (several surgeries, some unforeseen life events, etc….) No, those aren’t excuses not to workout but I’m being transparent. I have been doing LISS cardio on my Bowflex Treadclimber and between Nov 1st & January 11th, I went from 201 to 150lbs (goal was to drop as much fat as possible but ended up loosing lean mass too).

Now, I am completely recovered from all surgeries (cleared by surgeons, primary care and chiropractor) and ready to put in the work.

I’m thinking start with Push/Pull/Legs and not use any gear for a while?

For example at my peak I was 185lbs @ 7.9% BF (via repeated BodPod tests).
Bench: 350lbs
Squat: 450lbs
Deadlift: 450lbs
Strict Seated Military Press: 225lbs x10

Wasn’t that aesthetically pleasing in my own opinion, kind of blocky with big traps and an 18in neck. Waist was 28in. I do not recall my other measurements but usually biceps are a weak point and upper chest.


Do I go with PPL? Or is that starting off with too much stress on the CNS?
Otherwise would probably do: (back/triceps, legs, shoulders, chest/biceps).


Any advice is appreciated!
Also, if someone does recommend gear, I have quite the lengthy list I can post.

Thank you all! Stay safe and swole!

The split itself isn’t too important regarding the CNS. The CNS is mainly strained by simply not enough rest days or sleep and hard progressive overload. The CNS will be strained regardless of what split you choose if you have an improper approach to training.

That being said, I think PPL would be perfect for you, it’s simple and can cut volume as compared to programs like upper / lower. After a while and a few reloads you can re evaluate and see if you wanna change the program.
Personally, I did PPL for 5 years before changing to upper / lower. PPL is great for gains and recovery.

I can’t help you on the gear end at all, that’s your choice and others can give you good input on that. But it may be a good idea to train naturally for a while before you consider taking PEDs again, as to not stress your body too hard.

 

[saderboy80]

The split itself isn’t too important regarding the CNS. The CNS is mainly strained by simply not enough rest days or sleep and hard progressive overload. The CNS will be strained regardless of what split you choose if you have an improper approach to training.

That being said, I think PPL would be perfect for you, it’s simple and can cut volume as compared to programs like upper / lower. After a while and a few reloads you can re evaluate and see if you wanna change the program.
Personally, I did PPL for 5 years before changing to upper / lower. PPL is great for gains and recovery.

I can’t help you on the gear end at all, that’s your choice and others can give you good input on that. But it may be a good idea to train naturally for a while before you consider taking PEDs again, as to not stress your body too hard.

 

[saderboy80]

Yeah, as sad as it is, I think natural would be best! As to strengthen my muscles, tendons and ligaments. To prevent further injuries.

Also I’m kind of skinny-fat. Do I keep cutting or ramp up my calories and bulk?

 

[Shadowblaze]

Yeah, as sad as it is, I think natural would be best! As to strengthen my muscles, tendons and ligaments. To prevent further injuries.

Also I’m kind of skinny-fat. Do I keep cutting or ramp up my calories and bulk?

Yeah going into training naturally is a good idea, at least until you have most of your progress back.

As for the skinny fat thing, I’m sorry since I’m not the best person to ask for that. I know a decent amount about training and splits but not fat loss and body recomp.

 

[Dustin07]

Nov 1st & January 11th, I went from 201 to 150lbs

are you sure about that? even if you were holding say 10lbs of bloat/water and 191 was accurate, thats 40-51lbs in 2.5 months for a guy that wasn't that fat to begin with?

Do I go with PPL? Or is that starting off with too much stress on the CNS?
Otherwise would probably do: (back/triceps, legs, shoulders, chest/biceps).

I'm doing a PPL variant basically. after all these years I sorta train what I want to train, dynamically.

so I have a chest day that is bench strength centric, if its a 2 a day then second session is triceps. (all pushing on 2 sessions)

I have a leg day that is normally squat focused but i'm rehabbing my knee right now so working on quad and adductor development/glutes

I have a back day, that starts with deadlifts, then if its a 2 a day becomes lat and bicep focused. (all pulling on two sessions)

I tend to train 5 days a week so the other two days will typically be a little more vanity/fun like a shoulder day, and an arms day.

Yeah, as sad as it is, I think natural would be best! As to strengthen my muscles, tendons and ligaments. To prevent further injuries.

Also I’m kind of skinny-fat. Do I keep cutting or ramp up my calories and bulk?

post a pic, you can cut your face off for privacy like most of us do. that would be helpful.

 

[Hyde]

Post a body pic so we can see current composition, regarding food. But without that, if you already think you look a bit chubby still, don’t “bulk”. Just get back into routine training & exercise and focus on making healthy food choices. Hopefully you’ll lose a bit more fat, but as long as you don’t eat at a surplus you should at least improve composition slowly just from the resistance training.

Do NOT take gear. You don’t need steroids to work out, and you definitely shouldn’t use them without establishing a longterm habit/routine and only weighing 150lbs skinny fat. If you have been consistent for 6 months with no intent on slowing down, then I’d consider something possibly. But just get back at it and get healthy, before you start throwing unhealthy things at yourself.

Congrats on taking the first step; keep at it!

 

[saderboy80]

are you sure about that? even if you were holding say 10lbs of bloat/water and 191 was accurate, thats 40-51lbs in 2.5 months for a guy that wasn't that fat to begin with?


I'm doing a PPL variant basically. after all these years I sorta train what I want to train, dynamically.

so I have a chest day that is bench strength centric, if its a 2 a day then second session is triceps. (all pushing on 2 sessions)

I have a leg day that is normally squat focused but i'm rehabbing my knee right now so working on quad and adductor development/glutes

I have a back day, that starts with deadlifts, then if its a 2 a day becomes lat and bicep focused. (all pulling on two sessions)

I tend to train 5 days a week so the other two days will typically be a little more vanity/fun like a shoulder day, and an arms day.



post a pic, you can cut your face off for privacy like most of us do. that would be helpful.

Yessir, completed my goal of losing 50lbs on my birthday. Water, whole food diet in a steep deficit, and 5-7days of LISS cardio. Ranging from 30-60min each session, dependent on work schedule.

I will post a fasted pic in the AM!

 

[Dustin07]

how tall are you?
any chance there is a typo on your OP about being down to 150lbs? I'm just curious since you stated 185lbs before at 8% bf.

Water, whole food diet in a steep deficit, and 5-7days of LISS cardio. Ranging from 30-60min each session, dependent on work schedule.

yup, that will definitely help a cut lol
I always see 40 minutes as my magic minimum number for LISS.

 

[saderboy80]

how tall are you?
any chance there is a typo on your OP about being down to 150lbs? I'm just curious since you stated 185lbs before at 8% bf.


yup, that will definitely help a cut lol
I always see 40 minutes as my magic minimum number for LISS.

I’m 5’10” and yes 150lbs. Diet is tilapia, chicken breasts, eggs, egg whites, oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

 

[saderboy80]

I’m 5’10” and yes 150lbs. Diet is tilapia, chicken breasts, eggs, egg whites, oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

185lbs at 8% BF was at my peak. As I said in my post.
That was years ago.

 

[Hyde]

I’m 5’10” and yes 150lbs. Diet is tilapia, chicken breasts, eggs, egg whites, oatmeal and sweet potatoes.

I was 160lbs of slightly skinny fat in highschool at that height so it makes sense since you also haven’t been lifting. Not really fat, just not defined stomach and there’s no appreciable muscle really.

That diet sounds very solid for now. I wouldn’t change much until you see how you respond to routine training. Your body will tell you if you need a bit more.

 

[saderboy80]

I was 160lbs of slightly skinny fat in highschool at that height so it makes sense since you also haven’t been lifting. Not really fat, just not defined stomach and there’s no appreciable muscle really.

That diet sounds very solid for now. I wouldn’t change much until you see how you respond to routine training. Your body will tell you if you need a bit more.

That’s a very more eloquent way of stating what I was trying to get across.

So stay in deficit?

Oh and I’m also getting my greens (spinach, broccoli, green beans or asparagus).

 

[Dustin07]

how old are you?
Sorry I keep tossing questions but as the conversation develops more thoughts pop up in my head.

So stay in deficit?

I still think seeing body comp first is important here. I have a hard time telling someone your height and weight to be in a deficit. It seems like you have kinda a unique situation having been lean and jacked at 185, then a little sloppy at 200, but back to 150 and not feeling lean. I'm a little perplexed that you could be "skinny fat" with such a strong lifting background. without seeing pictures, my gut still says probably keep clean, like Hyde said it sounds decent, but I can't see myself telling anyone at 5'10" to cut any lower. I'd be more inclined to seek maintenance calories while reincorporating the lifting and see if that contributes to to some lean mass gains at the same bf or if bf might even drop some with the gains.

I'm still just running of pictures in my head though. at the end of the day you gotta do what feels right to you. maybe fire up a log here so we can follow along on your lifting journey-

 

[Hyde]

how old are you?
Sorry I keep tossing questions but as the conversation develops more thoughts pop up in my head.


I still think seeing body comp first is important here. I have a hard time telling someone your height and weight to be in a deficit. It seems like you have kinda a unique situation having been lean and jacked at 185, then a little sloppy at 200, but back to 150 and not feeling lean. I'm a little perplexed that you could be "skinny fat" with such a strong lifting background. without seeing pictures, my gut still says probably keep clean, like Hyde said it sounds decent, but I can't see myself telling anyone at 5'10" to cut any lower. I'd be more inclined to seek maintenance calories while reincorporating the lifting and see if that contributes to to some lean mass gains at the same bf or if bf might even drop some with the gains.

I'm still just running of pictures in my head though. at the end of the day you gotta do what feels right to you. maybe fire up a log here so we can follow along on your lifting journey-

Yeah I’m not saying to cut or lose any more weight, but we just don’t need some big reversal that undoes a bunch of fatloss.

I’d add maybe a piece of fruit & a little protein shake around training on workout days for now and see how it goes for a bit.

 

[Dustin07]

this one hits hard cause I picture myself at similar weights but I don't know the impact of the surgeries and time off. since all 3 of us are similar in height you have 3 super different compositions and lifting histories/nutritional approaches to look at.

 

[saderboy80]

this one hits hard cause I picture myself at similar weights but I don't know the impact of the surgeries and time off. since all 3 of us are similar in height you have 3 super different compositions and lifting histories/nutritional approaches to look at.

Not quite sure what you are getting at.

 

[saderboy80]

Yeah I’m not saying to cut or lose any more weight, but we just don’t need some big reversal that undoes a bunch of fatloss.

I’d add maybe a piece of fruit & a little protein shake around training on workout days for now and see how it goes for a bit.

Thank you for the advice!! A banana and 30g whey isolate it is.

Oh and I guess I should have mentioned, I weigh all my food to the gram.

 

[Dustin07]

Not quite sure what you are getting at.

you me and Hyde are all about the same height. he's about 250, I'm 191, and you're 150. different histories here but interesting difference in compositions. I was 148 when I wrestled so I was lean AF, 186 when I graduated, 242 was my peak weight, cut down to 168 and I thought I was way too skinny (so it makes me wonder about your 150). Today at 43 after being a gym rat since about age 13, I'm at 191 with a soft goal of 185 ish but reality is I may cut all the way back down to 180 depending on how things go but knowing my composition and Hyde's its just perpelxing for me to visualize your 50lb cut in a short period of time and to be sitting at 150 with your history.

 

[saderboy80]

you me and Hyde are all about the same height. he's about 250, I'm 191, and you're 150. different histories here but interesting difference in compositions. I was 148 when I wrestled so I was lean AF, 186 when I graduated, 242 was my peak weight, cut down to 168 and I thought I was way too skinny (so it makes me wonder about your 150). Today at 43 after being a gym rat since about age 13, I'm at 191 with a soft goal of 185 ish but reality is I may cut all the way back down to 180 depending on how things go but knowing my composition and Hyde's its just perpelxing for me to visualize your 50lb cut in a short period of time and to be sitting at 150 with your history.

I think the main difference is I haven’t weight trained in 3yrs. So I hardly have any muscle tone on me. Plus with a steep calorie deficit, you can lose even more lean mass.

 

[Hyde]

I think the main difference is I haven’t weight trained in 3yrs. So I hardly have any muscle tone on me. Plus with a steep calorie deficit, you can lose even more lean mass.

Yeah you’re basically starting off with a clean slate. You do have the muscle memory though with those old nuclei you built, plus the knowledge how to execute the exercises you like, so you should get a lot out of coming back to consistent workouts.

 

[saderboy80]

Yeah you’re basically starting off with a clean slate. You do have the muscle memory though with those old nuclei you built, plus the knowledge how to execute the exercises you like, so you should get a lot out of coming back to consistent workouts.

But the is so tempting haha.

I won’t! But the temptation is real.

 

[Hyde]

But the is so tempting haha.

I won’t! But the temptation is real.

It will be there - earn it! You will be wasting it now; you always want to get the most from the least. AND it’s really important to figure out what works for training, recovery, and diet together first without the drugs just enabling progress no matter what. Because you will have to cycle off/down at some point, and then you will revert to a sack of crap if you don’t have a sound training & nutrition protocol.

 

[saderboy80]

It will be there - earn it! You will be wasting it now; you always want to get the most from the least. AND it’s really important to figure out what works for training, recovery, and diet together first without the drugs just enabling progress no matter what. Because you will have to cycle off/down at some point, and then you will revert to a sack of crap if you don’t have a sound training & nutrition protocol.

Thank you for the kind motivation and encouragement!!

 

[saderboy80]

Skinny fat…150lbs

 

[Dustin07]

not bad at all tbh, what a fantastic slate to start with, this is very exciting. You really should start a log and post your macros, we saw what you eat but lets get a break down on carbs/fat/protein. to me, like Hyde said, you have a great slate. you will have some nice bounce back from muscle memory but you are also going to enjoy massive newbie gains again IMO.

With your current physique any regular training regiment that is fed is going to cause a major improvement to your delts, arms, and chest. I still highly recommend getting your log going and committing to the process, get some regular training in and you'll look like a different person in 6 months gauranteeed.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah this is a solid place to start; by the time you have added 10lbs of muscle back you’re going to really start enjoying your look. A this bodyfat, you’ll easily see your progress.

 

[saderboy80]

Okay, so I am having a trouble finding a way to get another meal in (not because I can’t consume the food; but the timing).

Right now: 4 totals meals
Breakfast: 4am
“Snack”: 6am
Lunch: 12:30-1pm (at work)
Dinner: 5:30pm

Breakfast- pre-workout
Snack-post workout
Lunch-
Now, I am not allowed to have food at my desk or eat other then my lunch break (so 7am-5pm can only get 1 meal in).
Dinner- after work

Also I need to bump my kcal but where at?

Eggs3- 18gP, 15gF
Egg Whites-1/2cup 13gP
Stevia (sweeten the oatmeal)
Oatmeal- 1/2c. 28gC, 3gF, 5gP

36gP, 18gF, 28gC


Chicken- 172g 52gP, 6.1gF, 0gC
1/2 Apple- 11gC
Sweet potato- 200g 41gC
1 tblspn butter- 11gF
2 tblspns SF syrup 3gC

52gP, 23gF, 55gC



Tilapia- 171g 30gP, 4gF, 0gC

30gP, 4gF, 0gC



Whey(3scoops)- 75gP, 0gF, 0gC
Banana- 0gP, 0gF, 27gC

75gP, OgF, 27gC



Total
P- 193g (772kcal)
F- 45g (405kcal)
C- 110g (440kcal)
Total calories: 1,617kcals



Options: chocolate milk, casein shake, oikos triple zero Greek yogurt, FF Cottage cheese, lean ground turkey, lean ground beef, salmon

 

[Hyde]

Okay, so I am having a trouble finding a way to get another meal in (not because I can’t consume the food; but the timing).

Right now: 4 totals meals
Breakfast: 4am
“Snack”: 6am
Lunch: 12:30-1pm (at work)
Dinner: 5:30pm

Breakfast- pre-workout
Snack-post workout
Lunch-
Now, I am not allowed to have food at my desk or eat other then my lunch break (so 7am-5pm can only get 1 meal in).
Dinner- after work

Also I need to bump my kcal but where at?

Eggs3- 18gP, 15gF
Egg Whites-1/2cup 13gP
Stevia (sweeten the oatmeal)
Oatmeal- 1/2c. 28gC, 3gF, 5gP

36gP, 18gF, 28gC


Chicken- 172g 52gP, 6.1gF, 0gC
1/2 Apple- 11gC
Sweet potato- 200g 41gC
1 tblspn butter- 11gF
2 tblspns SF syrup 3gC

52gP, 23gF, 55gC



Tilapia- 171g 30gP, 4gF, 0gC

30gP, 4gF, 0gC



Whey(3scoops)- 75gP, 0gF, 0gC
Banana- 0gP, 0gF, 27gC

75gP, OgF, 27gC



Total
P- 193g (772kcal)
F- 45g (405kcal)
C- 110g (440kcal)
Total calories: 1,617kcals



Options: chocolate milk, casein shake, oikos triple zero Greek yogurt, FF Cottage cheese, lean ground turkey, lean ground beef, salmon

Protein is covered, so no reason to raise that unless it’s just something you really would prefer.

Since fats are sufficient for hormonal health, add calories from carbs, unless you prefer something else.

You could make that a full apple in meal 2, bump oats up if that is appetizing, or add some carb source in with the Tilapia & veggie meal, for some ideas.

You could also consider having a little snack in the evening if adding food to your other meals is unappealing. You could even pull a scoop of whey out of that shake to add the macros towards that evening snack. Some cottage cheese or Greek yogurt as a nightcap is an ideal milk protein source before bed for recovery.

 

[saderboy80]

Protein is covered, so no reason to raise that unless it’s just something you really would prefer.

Since fats are sufficient for hormonal health, add calories from carbs, unless you prefer something else.

You could make that a full apple in meal 2, bump oats up if that is appetizing, or add some carb source in with the Tilapia & veggie meal, for some ideas.

You could also consider having a little snack in the evening if adding food to your other meals is unappealing. You could even pull a scoop of whey out of that shake to add the macros towards that evening snack. Some cottage cheese or Greek yogurt as a nightcap is an ideal milk protein source before bed for recovery.

Wonderful suggestions, thank you sir!

I’m thinking take a scoop of that whey annd like 0.5-1scoop casein and add it to vanilla Greek yogurt and FF cottage cheese. In my opinion if you get the proportions right; you can make yogurt combined with cottage cheese taste like cheesecake!


1 scoop Whey- 25gP, 0gF, 0gC
0.5-1scoop casein- 12-25gP, 0gF, 0gC
Greek yogurt 0.5cup - 8gP, 0gF, 5gC
FF Cottage Cheese 0.5Cup- 8gP, 0gF, 5gC
Total: 45-66gP, 0gF, 10gC

 

[Hyde]

Wonderful suggestions, thank you sir!

I’m thinking take a scoop of that whey annd like 0.5-1scoop casein and add it to vanilla Greek yogurt and FF cottage cheese. In my opinion if you get the proportions right; you can make yogurt combined with cottage cheese taste like cheesecake!


1 scoop Whey- 25gP, 0gF, 0gC
0.5-1scoop casein- 12-25gP, 0gF, 0gC
Greek yogurt 0.5cup - 8gP, 0gF, 5gC
FF Cottage Cheese 0.5Cup- 8gP, 0gF, 5gC
Total: 45-66gP, 0gF, 10gC

Yeah if that’s something that appeals to you these are all wholesome sources of nutrition.

Again, you don’t need this much protein daily, but if you enjoy it & digest it well you aren’t going to go wrong.

 

[saderboy80]

Yeah if that’s something that appeals to you these are all wholesome sources of nutrition.

Again, you don’t need this much protein daily, but if you enjoy it & digest it well you aren’t going to go wrong.

Would you suggest upping the carbs then? Instead of so much protein.

 

[Dustin07]

I always liked throwing down a rice bowl preWO, or adding real juice to my preWO shake for the sugar kick up. These little rice bowls are like 71g carbs/310cals per unit. If aesthetics are still very important I'd personally probably only add it in on lifting days first and see how your body takes to the calorie increase. I'm guessing you may have a decent metabolism in there waiting to be unleashed. at 5'9" I have had no problem holding 180lbs+ at a similar daily calorie intake, but was able to slowly increase daily cals to about 2k-2400/day with very minor weight gains (like 1lb/per month).

like hyde said, pro looks good, and carbs feel great preWO.

 

[Hyde]

Would you suggest upping the carbs then? Instead of so much protein.

Just depends on how you feel in training really, and when you want to eat. If you feel better with the evening protein, you stick to your diet or sleep better, that’s fine. If you don’t really need it but find yourself dragging at the gym, that’s a good window to add some. But I know you already have some there so more is not always better. Better is better, and it will require your own analysis.

 

[saderboy80]

5’10” 150lbs


Eggs3- 18gP, 15gF
Egg Whites-1/2cup 13gP
Stevia (sweeten the oatmeal)
Oatmeal- 1/2c. 28gC, 3gF, 5gP
Tot: 36gP, 18gF, 28gC


Chicken- 172g 52gP, 6.1gF, 0gC
1/2 Apple- 11gC
Sweet potato- 200g 41gC
1 tblspn butter- 11gF
2 tblspns SF syrup 3gC
Total: 52gP, 23gF, 55gC



Tilapia- 171g 30gP, 4gF, 0gC
Total: 30gP, 4gF, 0gC



Whey(3scoops)- 75gP, 0gF, 0gC
Banana- 0gP, 0gF, 27gC
Total: 75gP, OgF, 27gC


Totally;
P- 193g (772kcal)
F- 45g (405kcal)
C- 110g (440kcal)

Total calories: 1,617kcals


Options: chocolate milk, PB2, oikos triple zero Greek yogurt, FF Cottage cheese, lean ground turkey, lean ground beef


So another question is:

I only get 3-4 hrs a night. Yes, I see a psychologist for sleep, a neurologist and a sleep psychiatrist. I am heavily medicated.

 

[Hyde]

So what’s your question about sleep? Sounds like you know it’s a serious problem, and you have been seeking professional help already.

 

[Shadowblaze]

5’10” 150lbs


Eggs3- 18gP, 15gF
Egg Whites-1/2cup 13gP
Stevia (sweeten the oatmeal)
Oatmeal- 1/2c. 28gC, 3gF, 5gP
Tot: 36gP, 18gF, 28gC


Chicken- 172g 52gP, 6.1gF, 0gC
1/2 Apple- 11gC
Sweet potato- 200g 41gC
1 tblspn butter- 11gF
2 tblspns SF syrup 3gC
Total: 52gP, 23gF, 55gC



Tilapia- 171g 30gP, 4gF, 0gC
Total: 30gP, 4gF, 0gC



Whey(3scoops)- 75gP, 0gF, 0gC
Banana- 0gP, 0gF, 27gC
Total: 75gP, OgF, 27gC


Totally;
P- 193g (772kcal)
F- 45g (405kcal)
C- 110g (440kcal)

Total calories: 1,617kcals


Options: chocolate milk, PB2, oikos triple zero Greek yogurt, FF Cottage cheese, lean ground turkey, lean ground beef


So another question is:

I omly get 3-4 hrs a night. Yes, I see a psychologist for sleep, a neurologist and a sleep psychiatrist. I am heavily. medicated..

What medications are you on?
Do you have an insomnia diagnosis?
Do you sleep with your phone or alarm near your bed?
Do you wake up feeling rested?
Are you physically unable to stay asleep longer than 3-4 hours or are you just that busy where you can’t (or don’t) make time for sleep?
Have you had sleep studies done?

It’s hard to see your situation with only the information in your post. If you could just detail more about your insomnia that would be great

I know a thing or two about insomnia and sleep meds.

 

[saderboy80]

What medications are you on?
Do you have an insomnia diagnosis?
Do you sleep with your phone or alarm near your bed?
Do you wake up feeling rested?
Are you physically unable to stay asleep longer than 3-4 hours or are you just that busy where you can’t (or don’t) make time for sleep?
Have you had sleep studies done?

It’s hard to see your situation with only the information in your post. If you could just detail more about your insomnia that would be great

I know a thing or two about insomnia and sleep meds.

I answered all of those questions in my previous post.

 

[saderboy80]

So what’s your question about sleep? Sounds like you know it’s a serious problem, and you have been seeking professional help already.

I guess my question is just what else can I do to recover from workouts?

 

[Shadowblaze]

I guess my question is just what else can I do to recover from workouts?

There are things you can do like mobility work, light stretching, light physical activity, massage gun, etc.
those are just a few things you can do. I don’t know as much as Hyde about this so I’d listen to his answer over mine

But what I can tell you is that sleep is a secret superpower, it makes you look better, feel better, train better, recover better, and this list goes on.
Nothing can ever truly replicate sleep. Sleep is when most of your testosterone and especially gh get released.

I answered all of those questions in my previous post.

I may be bugging but I don’t see that information anywhere

 

[saderboy80]

What medications are you on?
Do you have an insomnia diagnosis?
Do you sleep with your phone or alarm near your bed?
Do you wake up feeling rested?
Are you physically unable to stay asleep longer than 3-4 hours or are you just that busy where you can’t (or don’t) make time for sleep?
Have you had sleep studies done?

It’s hard to see your situation with only the information in your post. If you could just detail more about your insomnia that would be great

I know a thing or two about insomnia and sleep meds.

Yes, insomnia diagnosis (by 4 sleep specialty psychiatrists, 2 regular psychiatrists, 2 psychologists, 2 sleep specialty psychologists, 2 licensed therapists, 4 neurologists, and 3 primary care physicians)
I’ve done 2 sleep studies and 2-5 day/5night continuous EEG recordings (I have epilepsy).
Both sleep studies 0min of sleep
First continuous EEG: 1 night of 35min of sleep and 1 night of 7min of sleep.
Second continuous EEG: 1 night of 25min of sleep and 1 night of 6min of sleep.

No phone or any type of bright light for 1hr before bed.

I meditate for 1hr before bed

Have my evening ritual (brush teeth, wash face, etc...). I always start it at the same time EVERY night

I set an alarm every night for when to begin that nightly ritual. No matter how awake or tired I am. I always keep it the same time and the same ritual.

I do not journal (it makes my intrusive thoughts more tangible)

I keep my bedroom very dark and cold. i use a fan and a white noise machine to filter/block out the noise.

I have black out curtains
I wear a quality black out eye mask
I have a good mattress
I have expensive/comfortable sheets
I have tried literally dozens of pillows and found the best ones for me
I’ve tried sleeping in several positions and found the best position for me

Phone is on do not disturb mode all night

I set an alarm for the morning (even though. I have never needed it in the past 4yrs; I just naturally wake up before that and get up at that time regardless of how I slept the night before

I get outside for 15-30 min right after I wake up. It helps reset your circadian rhythm.

Also, I don’t drink any caffeine of have any stimulants after 12pm every day

No food or drink 1hr before bed, except a few sips of water to take my meds.

I don’t rely on marijuana or alcohol for sleep. Yes, they will make you drowsy. But there is plenty of scientific research that states that smoking and alcohol use before bed does not allow you to enter into REM sleep, which is the deeper stage of sleep.

Sleep help I take with my RX meds: Melatonin, magnesium glycicnate, & phenibut (GABA agonist)

I am not laying on my mattress at all during the day or trying to take any naps

I only use my bed for sleep and sex


I pretty sure I know a thing or more about sleep, insomnia and meds then you do.

Need I say more?

 

[Dustin07]

Also I need to bump my kcal but where at?

Total calories: 1,617kcals

add calories from carbs,

Total calories: 1,617kcals

Add 100 cals of carbs per day this week, then 100 next week (making it 1800 daily after 2 weeks) etc if you want to experiement with adding cals.

Yes, they will make you drowsy. But there is plenty of scientific research that states that smoking and alcohol use before bed does not allow you to enter into REM sleep, which is the deeper stage of sleep.

I only partially agree with this and I do believe some of it is person dependent. I'm not a fan of thc in general, but I do believe in the healing properties of moderate distillate use (such as a shot of bourbon). excess of anything is bad, and things like wine have a far worse effect on sleep. distillates are processed in a way that congeners are removed for your safety before consuming whereas beer and wine do not remove the chemical compounds like methanol etc.

Sleep help I take with my RX meds: Melatonin, magnesium glycicnate, & phenibut (GABA agonist)

If it were me, not getting the results I was looking for, I'd consider substituting the melatonin out for ZMA for a while and see how that effects you since you already have a good regimented evening ritual that should help spur melatonin naturally. You're morning ritual to encourage appropriate cortisol spikes seems good too. its possible you have built a tolerance to some of this stuff like the phenibut.

I pretty sure I know a thing or more about sleep, insomnia and meds then you do.

Easy tiger, people are just trying to understand and pitch ideas. Surely if you knew everything you'd be sleeping. I don't think you answered my question on your age, and I'm curious if you are married or have a live in girlfriend etc.

 

[saderboy80]

Add 100 cals of carbs per day this week, then 100 next week (making it 1800 daily after 2 weeks) etc if you want to experiement with adding cals.


I only partially agree with this and I do believe some of it is person dependent. I'm not a fan of thc in general, but I do believe in the healing properties of moderate distillate use (such as a shot of bourbon). excess of anything is bad, and things like wine have a far worse effect on sleep. distillates are processed in a way that congeners are removed for your safety before consuming whereas beer and wine do not remove the chemical compounds like methanol etc.



If it were me, not getting the results I was looking for, I'd consider substituting the melatonin out for ZMA for a while and see how that effects you since you already have a good regimented evening ritual that should help spur melatonin naturally. You're morning ritual to encourage appropriate cortisol spikes seems good too. its possible you have built a tolerance to some of this stuff like the phenibut.



Easy tiger, people are just trying to understand and pitch ideas. Surely if you knew everything you'd be sleeping. I don't think you answered my question on your age, and I'm curious if you are married or have a live in girlfriend etc.


View attachment 258664

You sir need to do some clinical/evidence based research!

Swapping out my melatonin for ZMA, when I’m already taking magnesium glycinate (one of the most bioavailable forms of magnesium and also one of the forms that actually crosses the blood-brain barrier. And zinc won’t do anything (except attempt to raise your test levels).

I said I don’t eat 1hr before bed, never said anything about meals or liquid consumption prior to that.

Alcohol and THC will put you to sleep, yes! However, they prevent you from entering REM sleep.

Yes, I do know a lot and I still don’t sleep. But I listed all the physicians, psychologists and therapists that SPECIALIZE IN SLEEP who have tried to help me. Yet, no one can figure out a cause or a solution for my insomnia. They just repeat all the sleep hygiene tips I already listed, say get a sleep study (are astonished by the results) and either heavily sedate me or tell me the case is too complex and they can’t help.

I’m on a lot of meds:

Seroquel 1,800mg QHS

Baclofen 60mg QHS

Clonazepam 8mg QHS

Hydroxyzine 200mg QHS

Zolpidem 10mg QHS

Dayvigo 10mg QHS

Saphris 20mg QHS

Gabapentin 1800mg QHS

Melatonin 10mg QHS

Magnesium Glycinate 1000mg QHS

Phenibut 1500mg QHS


No girlfriend or wife.
32yrs old

I’m asking for alternative methods of recovery, unless anyone has any other suggestions for sleep….that actually work.

 

[Dustin07]

I guess there are no solutions, you already know everything and will never sleep again. bummer.

 

[Dblock]

Being on all those meds….how are you even functioning at all? I assume you don’t have a job

 

[Dustin07]

Being on all those meds….how are you even functioning at all? I assume you don’t have a job

who has time for a job when you have 17 drs and therapists to visit. The age and lack of woman though both strike me as specific hotbeds to grind a man down. For all the stress a woman brings to life, I have found nothing makes falling asleep easier or better than having a good woman beside you. Nothing surprises me about the age bracket though. Everything under 40 is a hotbed of rollercoasters and the brain rarely knows how to respond to an ever accelerating society.

 

[saderboy80]

Being on all those meds….how are you even functioning at all? I assume you don’t have a job

I actually have 6 jobs
1 60hrs/week
5 freelance contract jobs
I make great money working in Clinical Research & Artificial Intelligence!
Have time to workout x2/day (once cardio 30-60min, and once weight training), I date when I want, I have a dog that I play with and walk daily, I meditate for an hour daily, cook all my own meals, spend 1hr a day either reading books, or researching new clinical trials and AI. Oh and I’m getting 4th post-graduate certification, this will be my 2nd one from Stanford School of Medicine. The other 2 from MIT.

 

[saderboy80]

who has time for a job when you have 17 drs and therapists to visit. The age and lack of woman though both strike me as specific hotbeds to grind a man down. For all the stress a woman brings to life, I have found nothing makes falling asleep easier or better than having a good woman beside you. Nothing surprises me about the age bracket though. Everything under 40 is a hotbed of rollercoasters and the brain rarely knows how to respond to an ever accelerating society.

I never said they were current physicians/therapists (don’t make facetious assumptions). Actually, I date when I want and got out of a 5 year relationship 2 months ago (so back to dating). You don’t know my life and are making a lot of false assumptions!

 

[saderboy80]

Being on all those meds….how are you even functioning at all? I assume you don’t have a job

Oh and I’ve done pharmacogenetic testing as well. I have an ultra-rapid metabolism for over 95% of medications.
I have had several surgeries and they always have trouble calculating the correct anesthesia dose, due to my metabolism. When I was 195lbs for 2 Ortho surgeries. They told me they had to use an anesthetic dose for that equivalent of a 400lb man

The nerve blocks they use that are supposed to last 2-3days? Wear off by the time I’m in the post-op recovery room. Pain medication? Worthless. May as well stick to ibuprofen and Tylenol.

 

[Dustin07]

I actually have 6 jobs
1 60hrs/week
5 freelance contract jobs

Super common theme I see here in these boards and everywhere else in life, but people pack so much **** into their life and then can't figure out why their brains aren't braining right. Nearly everyone is guilty of it, and the folks that are in this board are often more guilty of it because we are driven by nature, thats why we are here squeezing every single drip out of life, supplements, pharma, muscle fibers, glyco stores, each gram of carb, protein, etc. it's a giant metaphor for how we are filling the 24hrs in our day.