Tribulus and Long Jack

"results suggest a reduction in SHBG" that doesn't mean something in long jack "binds" to SHBG. they didn't test any active in long jack for binding afinity to shbg. I've seen all this research, I have been using LJ100 and other extracts of long jack and tribulus for over 3 years. everything I posted is correct. re-read it and maybe re-write that bs write up. its not correct about tribulus, long jack or vitex. some of the stuff it says about long jack is correct (increases dhea). if u want to pay me I can re-write that for you to make it accurate without the cut and paste stuff from other product write ups. and the 500 percent increase in testosterone........come on.
 
Tribulus(Protodioscin) Increase Testosterone:

TRIBESTAN EFFECT ON THE CONCENTRATION OF SOME HORMONES IN THE SERUM OF HEALTHY SUBJECTS

S. Milanov, A. Maleeva, M. Taskov

RIRR - Radioisotope and Radioimmunological Laboratory, Sofia

Chemical Pharmaceutical Research Institute,
Sofia, Bulgaria

SUMMARY

Tribestan effect has been studied on the serum concentration of hypophyseal hormones, of ACTH, STH, LH, FSH, adrenal hormone aldosterone and cortisol and sex hormones - testosterone and estradiol. The experiments have been carried out on 8 males and 8 females, aged 28 - 45 years of age. The product was perorally administered in a single dose of 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days. Serum samples were withdrawn at 8 a.m. and 12 a.m., prior to and post treatment. The product has been established not to change essentially the concentrations of adrenal hormones and of ACTH. The hypophyseal-gonadal axis however has significantly been affected in the females with predominantly increased concentration of FSH and estradiol and in the males - mainly of LH and the testosterone. The mechanism of that action is presumed to be complicated and realized both by direct effect on gonadal apparatus and by the tropic hormones.
The probable established changes in the concentration of the hormones studied do not get out of the frames of the physiological limits.

The lyophilized extract of Tribulus terrestris, introduced in veterinary practice as TB-68, has pronounced sex-stimulating function. The initial studies of this product showed that it stimulates the spermatogenesis of albino rats (Vankov S., et al., 1973) and enhanced the ovulation of female rats (Vankov S. et al. 1973). Zarkova S. (1976) has also established in rats an increased number of spermatogonia, spermatocytes as well as increase of neutral mucopolysaccharides in seminiferous tubules of the testes. Gendzhev Z. and S. Zarkova, in other experiments (1978) proved the increase of spermatic reserve in the epididymis of rats.

With the view to the need of human medicine of a product stimulating sexual function, Tribestan was formulated on the base of the indicated phytochemical product. It contains saponins of furostanol type (Tomova M. et al., 1978). The first studies of Tribestan confirmed its high sex-stimulating activity in experimental animals (Zarkova S., 1981). Later, the clinical studies established a similar stimulating effect in humans as well (Protich M. at al. 1981). The present study was carried out with a view to throwing light on some aspects of the mechanism of that action of Tribestan, aiming at attaining an effect from the product on the serum concentration of some hypophyseal, sexual and adrenal hormones.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

The experiments were performed on 16 subjects (8 females and 8 males), aged 28-45. All subjects were in good health, without any complaints and good capacity for work. The following schedule was used:
1. The basic levels of hypophysiotropic hormones (ACTH, STH, LH, FSH), of sexual hormones (testosterone and estradiol) and of adrenal hormones (aldosterone and cortisol) were determined. They were determined twice, at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. - one day prior to Tribestan treatment.
2. The treatment with the product was initiated on the following day, which was periodically administered, 250 mg, three times daily for 5 days.
3. After the termination of Tribestan treatment (day sixth after the initiation of the experiment), blood was again withdrawn (at the same hour - 8:00 a.m. and 12 p.m.) for the determination of the concentration of the indicated hormones.

The work proceeded in the following way: after centrifugation of 6 - 8 ml blood, the serum obtained was frozen at 20°C till the day of the determination of hormonal concentration. The determination was performed by radioimmune tests. LH and FSH were determined by the modified method of Midgley A.R., (1967), making use of some kits of Biodata company, Italy and ACTH and STH - according to the method of Berson S.A. and R. S. Yalow (1963). Testosterone was evaluated by the method of William R. H. (1968), and of estradiol by Orezyk G.P. et al. (1974), making use of kits of Sorin Company, Belgium for both hormones. The adrenal hormones cortisol and aldosterone were also determined by kits of that company, making use of Vescei P. (1974) and of William G and R. Hunderwood (1974).

The obtained results were statistically processed by variation analysis, by Student - t test.

RESULTS AND DISCUSSION

As could be seen from Table 1, LH level in the males was elevated with a high significance after the treatment (p < 0.001). The changes affected both samples to the same rate (at 8 a.m. and 12 p.m.). FSH concentration was not affected under the same conditions. The other two hypophyseal hormones, ACTH and STH were not changed.

An insignificant tendency to elevation was observed in STH level (mean values - 2.9 prior to and 3.2 mg/ml post treatment) in some of the cases. The level of sex hormones was strongly affected. Thus testosterone concentration was three-fold (2) increased and that of estradiol - about 1.5 times (Table 1).

Table 1
Hormone Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 13.0 14.38(1) 37.25 24.75
SX 0.64 0.73 1.01 0.79
Pt 0.001 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 13.38 13.50 13.38 11.38
SX 0.35 0.28 0.35 0.36
Pt >0.5 >0.5
Testosterone, ng % X 628 610 882 845
SX 48 46 35 32
Pt <0.001 <0.001
Estradiol pg/ml X 79 76 133 137.5
SX 3.46 2.24 6.72 5.86
Pt <0.001 <0.001

LH concentration was also increased in females under Tribestan effect. What impressed was that the significance was lower than the first sample. The greatest discrepancy, as compared with the results of the males, was the sharp stimulation of FSH. A strong effect was observed there, which could be explained by blood withdrawal during the early phase of the menstrual cycle, the so-called follicular phase. Estradiol was also strongly affected (Pt < 0.001), whereas testosterone in the females during the early hours of the day was less affected (Table 2).

Table 2
Hormone
Prior to Tribestan
Post Tribestan

8 a.m.
12 p.m.
8 a.m.
12 p.m.

LH, mIU/ml X 15.25 13.50 17.13 16.88
SX 0.64 0.87 0.73 0.35
Pt 0.02 0.001
FSH, mIU/ml X 11.00 11.88 17.75 15.25
SX 0.13 0.09 0.71 0.38
Pt 0.001 0.001
Estradiol mIU/ml X 72.13 59.38 77.13 87.50
SX 6.02 5.73 5.47 3.24
Pt 0.5 0.001

The level of adrenal hormone was identically affected both in males and females (Table 3). A significant increase of the concentration was also established though that effect had a relatively low significance (p < 0.05). At the same time, cortisol level was no changed (Table 3).

Table 3
Aldosterone Cortisol
Prior to Post Prior to Post
X 11.59 13.77 8.63 8.63
S 2.52 3.48 2.20 1.92
SX 0.63 0.87 0.55 0.48
Pt 0.05 0.05

The results obtained provided grounds to admit that Tribestan had a pronounced stimulating effect on the secretion of some hormones. The effect on the hormones along the hypophyseal-gonadal axis was particularly well manifested. The effect was manifested both at hypophyseal and gonadal level. Some sexual discrepancies were also established. Thus, FSH was mainly affected in the females. The presence of that hormone is exceptionally important during the follicular phase for the development of the follicle. When its development is stimulated, its secretory ability is also intensified and hence - estradiol level is elevated. Lutenizing hormone is more strongly influenced in the male, which on its part stimulates the secretion of testosterone.

ACTH and cortisol were not changed suggesting that they were not significantly involved in the realization of Tribestan effects. The tendency of stimulation of STH and aldosterone explained the activation of the anabolic processes in the body and general stimulating action of the product. The absence of effect on the level of cortisol showed however that the general tonic action was very strongly manifested.

It should be stressed that the level of the hormones studied did not go out beyond the physiological frames i.e. it did not disturb the physiological mechanisms of hormonal regulation.

References

Vankov S., S. Zarkova, Z. Gendzhev, M. Tomova - Effect of TB-68 on the spermatogenesis in albino rats. Proceeding of the Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 161-163.
Vankov S., S. Zarkova, M. Tomova - TB-68 effect on ovulation of albino rats. Proceedings of Third National Conference of Pharmacology and Clinics of New Bulgarian Drugs, Sofia, November 14-16, 1973, v.2, 165-167.
Gendzhev Z., S. Zarkova - Effect of the phyto-pharmaceutical TB-68 on the number of spermatozoa in epididymis of rat. Med. Archive, 1978, N I, 113-118.
Dimova P., M. Taskov - Comparative enzyme-histological studies of some phyto-products. MBI (at the printer's), 1981.
Zarkova S. - Morphological and histological changes in testes of rat under the effect of TB-68, Med. Archive, 1976, N 4, 49-53.
Protich M., D. Zvetanov, V. Nalbanski, R.Stanislavov, M.Kazarova - Clinical trial of Tribestan on infertile males, MBI (at the printer's).
Tomova M., V. Gyulemetova, S. Zarkova - Author's certificate N 77584 A 61 K 35/1978.
Berson S.A., R. S. Yalow - Immunoassay of protein hormones, The Hormones, Vol. V, Acad. Press., New York, 1963.
Midgley A.R. - Radioimmunoassay for Human, J. Clin. Endocr., 1967, 27, 295.
Orezyk, Gaylo P., Burton v. Caldwell, Harold H. Behrmaan - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay - Ed. B. Jaffe, H. Berhmaan, A6. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 333-343.
Vescei P. - Glicocorticoids: Cortisol Corticosterone - Methods of Hormone Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London 393-412.
William R.H. - Textbook of Endocrinology 4th Edit. Saunder, Philadelphia, 1968.
Williams Gordon H., Richard H. Hunderwood - Methods of Hormon Radioimmunoassay; Ed. B. Jaffe and H. Behrmaan, Ac. Press, NJ, London, 1974, 371-390.



Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.

Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore 119704, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).

The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
 
EasyEJL said:
the funny thing is that it could go either way. If studies are done with a 10% extract of fubarcides from bs, it might be the fubaricides that are doing whatever happened, or it might be something in the other 90% of bs :D can't tell really unless you re-run the studies with the higher extract
Click to expand...

It all depends on the pharmacokinetics of the particular phyto., you are interested in. In some respects, given the pathiophysiology of the condition this herb is being used to treat/protect/whatever, you can be fairly certain which constituent is doing what.
 
EasyEJL said:
the funny thing is that it could go either way. If studies are done with a 10% extract of fubarcides from bs, it might be the fubaricides that are doing whatever happened, or it might be something in the other 90% of bs :D can't tell really unless you re-run the studies with the higher extract
Click to expand...

Not really, Sabinsa extracted and tested forskolin to come up with the claims, and 10% coleus contains forskolin.

The 10% study was done many years later after identifying the active compound.
 
LakunaKoil said:
Chuck how much u charge for a Write-Up
Click to expand...

for this guy about 20 bucks because it will be a favor to the entire supplement industry.
-----------

to this guy posting all the "science" for his bs write up......tribestan is a full spectrum extract of bulgarian tribulus leaf at 55:1. its not standardized for protodiocin only. no where in those studies was synthesized protodiocin used or pure isolated and refined protodiocin used and shown to increase LH. I can't take this anymore.....i really think this is a joke, like who just cut and paste a write with stuff out the sky and google from other write ups.....500 percent increase in testosterone......please that will never ever happen.
 
Lakuna is really harshing my mellow, man. What kind of person thinks it's fun to just ruin everybody else's time. He serves no actual purpose. He is truly the male nipple of these boards.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
for this guy about 20 bucks because it will be a favor to the entire supplement industry.
-----------

to this guy posting all the "science" for his bs write up......tribestan is a full spectrum extract of bulgarian tribulus leaf at 55:1. its not standardized for protodiocin only. no where in those studies was synthesized protodiocin used or pure isolated and refined protodiocin used and shown to increase LH. I can't take this anymore.....i really think this is a joke, like who just cut and paste a write with stuff out the sky and google from other write ups.....500 percent increase in testosterone......please that will never ever happen.
Click to expand...


Chuck can I stack one of your products with 6-OXO ?

And what are your thoughts on Divanil (the stuff in Activate Extreme) ?
 
Chuck Diesel said:
for this guy about 20 bucks because it will be a favor to the entire supplement industry.
-----------

to this guy posting all the "science" for his bs write up......tribestan is a full spectrum extract of bulgarian tribulus leaf at 55:1. its not standardized for protodiocin only. no where in those studies was synthesized protodiocin used or pure isolated and refined protodiocin used and shown to increase LH. I can't take this anymore.....i really think this is a joke, like who just cut and paste a write with stuff out the sky and google from other write ups.....500 percent increase in testosterone......please that will never ever happen.
Click to expand...

No offense chuck, but you're WRONG.

-Tribulus(Protodioscin) DOES increase LH and total testosterone. (See studies posted)

-LJ100 increases FREE testosterone and binds to SHBG. (See studies posted)

-Vitex is a phyto-SERM that decreases estrogen AND prolactin while stimulating LH secretion.
 
SupremeSE said:
No offense chuck, but you're WRONG.

-Tribulus(Protodioscin) DOES increase LH and total testosterone. (See studies posted)

-LJ100 increases FREE testosterone and binds to SHBG. (See studies posted)

-Vitex is a phyto-SERM that decreases estrogen AND prolactin while stimulating LH secretion.
Click to expand...

Yeah but those are your own studies done by source-1-global who owns the lj100 patent, correct?
 
Maradona said:
Yeah but those are your own studies done by source-1-global who owns the lj100 patent, correct?
Click to expand...

There are dozens of studies on Pubmed that demonstrate Eurycoma's(Long Jack) aphrodisiac effect. This study on PUBMED actually shows an ANDROGENIC EFFECT! Yup, Long Jack increased TESTOSTERONE SO MUCH, that it actually affected the laevator ani muscle!!


Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.

Ang HH, Cheang HS.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Science Malaysia, Minden, 11800, Penang, Malaysia. [email protected]

It has been reported that Eurycoma longifolia Jack commonly known as Tongkat Ali has gained notoreity as a symbol of man's ego and strength by the Malaysian men because it increases male virility and sexual prowess during sexual activities. As such, the effects of 200, 400 and 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack were studied on the laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats after dosing them for 12 consecutive weeks. Results showed that 800 mg/kg of butanol, methanol, water and chloroform fractions of E. longifolia Jack significantly increased (p<0.05) the leavator ani muscle to 58.56+/-1.22, 58.23+/-0.31, 60.21 +/-0.86 and 62.35 +/-0.98 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared with the control (untreated) in the uncastrated intact male rats and 49.23+/-0.82, 52.23+/-0.36, 50.21+/-0.66 and 52.35+/-0.58 mg/100 g body weight, respectively, when compared to control (untreated) in the testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats. Hence, the pro-androgenic effect as shown by this study further supported the traditional use of this plant as an aphrodisiac.

PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
LakunaKoil said:
Chuck can I stack one of your products with 6-OXO ?

And what are your thoughts on Divanil (the stuff in Activate Extreme) ?
Click to expand...

u can stack Trib Test Extreme or DTH with 6-oxo, 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran binds to SHBG, thats been shown back in 1997 in a few studies. I think its good for increasing free test at certain amounts, but it will decrease total test if not used with something that increases total test. Thats a problem because if total test drops, it not usually DHEA thats dropping its LH and when ur LH drops ur libido drops.
 
SupremeSE said:
No offense chuck, but you're WRONG.

-Tribulus(Protodioscin) DOES increase LH and total testosterone. (See studies posted)

-LJ100 increases FREE testosterone and binds to SHBG. (See studies posted)

-Vitex is a phyto-SERM that decreases estrogen AND prolactin while stimulating LH secretion.
Click to expand...

Look I dont know who you are but I know who I am and what I have researched, and researched and researched over and over since 2002. What I posted is correct. You are not interpreting the research correctly.

Nothing in Long Jack has been identified and shown to bind to SHBG.

Protodiocin has never been isolated and shown to increase LH. I explained all this. Cut an pasting the research Sopharma did on the Tribulus it uses in Tribestan doesnt mean protodiocin increases LH, or even all tribulus increases LH. Like I said their tribulus is a 55:1 extract of the bulgarian leaf harvested at a specific time of the year that happens to yeild a high amount of protodiocin. Its not "standardized" for protodiocin.

Please dont use the word "SERM" I cant stand it. Vitex will decrease prolactin but in males, like I said before it increases LH but for some reason decreases total test.

Women use Vitex because it does act like a photoestrogen, but when it comes to men Vitex is called "monk's pepper" because it was first used as anti-libido medicine by monks to help them remain celibate.

"It is believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree."
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Look I dont know who you are but I know who I am and what I have researched, and researched and researched over and over since 2002. What I posted is correct. You are not interpreting the research correctly.

Nothing in Long Jack has been identified and shown to bind to SHBG.

Protodiocin has never been isolated and shown to increase LH. I explained all this. Cut an pasting the research Sopharma did on the Tribulus it uses in Tribestan doesnt mean protodiocin increases LH, or even all tribulus increases LH. Like I said their tribulus is a 55:1 extract of the bulgarian leaf harvested at a specific time of the year that happens to yeild a high amount of protodiocin. Its not "standardized" for protodiocin.

Please dont use the word "SERM" I cant stand it. Vitex will decrease prolactin but in males, like I said before it increases LH but for some reason decreases total test.

Women use Vitex because it does act like a photoestrogen, but when it comes to men Vitex is called "monk's pepper" because it was first used as anti-libido medicine by monks to help them remain celibate.

"It is believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree."
Click to expand...



PROTODIOSCIN increases LH and Testosterone:

Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.

Gauthaman K, Adaikan PG, Prasad RN.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore 119704, Singapore.

Tribulus terrestris (TT) has long been used in the traditional Chinese and Indian systems of medicine for the treatment of various ailments and is popularly claimed to improve sexual functions in man. Sexual behaviour and intracavernous pressure (ICP) were studied in both normal and castrated rats to further understand the role of TT containing protodioscin (PTN) as an aphrodisiac. Adult Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into five groups of 8 each that included distilled water treated (normal and castrated), testosterone treated (normal and castrated, 10 mg/kg body weight, subcutaneously, bi-weekly) and TT treated (castrated, 5 mg/kg body weight, orally once daily). Decreases in body weight, prostate weight and ICP were observed among the castrated groups of rats compared to the intact group. There was an overall reduction in the sexual behaviour parameters in the castrated groups of rats as reflected by decrease in mount and intromission frequencies (MF and IF) and increase in mount, intromission, ejaculation latencies (ML, IL, EL) as well as post-ejaculatory interval (PEI). Compared to the castrated control, treatment of castrated rats (with either testosterone or TT extract) showed increase in prostate weight and ICP that were statistically significant. There was also a mild to moderate improvement of the sexual behaviour parameters as evidenced by increase in MF and IF; decrease in ML, IL and PEI. These results were statistically significant. It is concluded that TT extract appears to possess aphrodisiac activity probably due to androgen increasing property of TT (observed in our earlier study on primates).

The hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris and its role in the management of male erectile dysfunction - an evaluation using primates, rabbit and rat.

Gauthaman K, Ganesan AP.
Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, National University of Singapore, 5 Lower Kent Ridge Road, 119074 Singapore.

Hormonal effects of Tribulus terrestris (TT) were evaluated in primates, rabbit and rat to identify its usefulness in the management of erectile dysfunction (ED). TT extract was administered intravenously, as a bolus dose of 7.5, 15 and 30mg/kg, in primates for acute study. Rabbits and normal rats were treated with 2.5, 5 and 10mg/kg of TT extract orally for 8 weeks, for chronic study. In addition, castrated rats were treated either with testosterone cypionate (10mg/kg, subcutaneously; biweekly for 8 weeks) or TT orally (5mg/kg daily for 8 weeks). Blood samples were analyzed for testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS) levels using radioimmunoassay. In primates, the increases in T (52%), DHT (31%) and DHEAS (29%) at 7.5mg/kg were statistically significant. In rabbits, both T and DHT were increased compared to control, however, only the increases in DHT (by 30% and 32% at 5 and 10mg/kg) were statistically significant. In castrated rats, increases in T levels by 51% and 25% were observed with T and TT extract respectively that were statistically significant. TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Look I dont know who you are but I know who I am and what I have researched, and researched and researched over and over since 2002. What I posted is correct. You are not interpreting the research correctly.

Nothing in Long Jack has been identified and shown to bind to SHBG.

Protodiocin has never been isolated and shown to increase LH. I explained all this. Cut an pasting the research Sopharma did on the Tribulus it uses in Tribestan doesnt mean protodiocin increases LH, or even all tribulus increases LH. Like I said their tribulus is a 55:1 extract of the bulgarian leaf harvested at a specific time of the year that happens to yeild a high amount of protodiocin. Its not "standardized" for protodiocin.

Please dont use the word "SERM" I cant stand it. Vitex will decrease prolactin but in males, like I said before it increases LH but for some reason decreases total test.

Women use Vitex because it does act like a photoestrogen, but when it comes to men Vitex is called "monk's pepper" because it was first used as anti-libido medicine by monks to help them remain celibate.

"It is believed to be an anaphrodisiac, hence the name chaste tree."
Click to expand...

LJ100 is the ONLY STANDARDIZED Eurycoma extract in the world, containing 22% "Eurypeptides", the steroidal glycosapins that DECREASE SHBG. THIS IS WHY LJ100 IS PATENTED*

Vitex increases LH in men and also decreases estrogen and prolactin. It is indeed a Phyto-SERM:


English Title: Evidence for estrogen receptor β-selective activity of Vitex agnus-castus and isolated flavones.

Personal Authors: Jarry, H., Spengler, B., Porzel, A., Schmidt, J., Wuttke, W., Christoffel, V.
Author Affiliation: Abteilung für Klinische und Experimentelle Endokrinologie, Universitätsfrauenklinik Göttingen, Robert Koch-Strasse 40, 37075 Göttingen, Germany.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Planta Medica, 2003 (Vol. 69) (No. 10) 945-947

Abstract:
Recent cell culture experiments indicated that extracts of V. agnus-castus (VAC) may contain yet unidentified phytoestrogens. Estrogenic actions are mediated via oestrogen receptors (ER). To investigate whether VAC compounds bind to the currently known isoforms ERα or ERβ, ligand-binding assays (LBA) were performed. Subtype specific ER-LBA revealed a binding of VAC to ERβ only. To isolate the ERβ-selective compounds, the extract was fractionated by bio-guidance. The flavonoid apigenin was isolated and identified as the most active ERβ-selective phytoestrogen in VAC. Other isolated compounds were vitexin and penduletin. These data demonstrate that the phytoestrogens in VAC are ERβ-selective.
 
SupremeSE said:
PROTODIOSCIN increases LH and Testosterone:

Aphrodisiac properties of Tribulus Terrestris extract (Protodioscin) in normal and castrated rats.


TT increases some of the sex hormones, possibly due to the presence of protodioscin in the extract. TT may be useful in mild to moderate cases of ED.
Click to expand...

That says Tribulus Extract. That doesnt say 98% + protodiocin. Do you know how much of that extract used was protodiocin and how much were other actives in tribulus...there are tons of saponis in tribulus.

It also says "possibly" which translates to "thats our guess."

Like I said, you dont see synthetic protodiocin or some purified extract increasing LH. Many companies have sold tribulus standardized for protodiocin and pretty much nothing else and guess what, the products pretty much sucked. Protodiocin does play a roll in increasing total test, but it doesnt increase LH, other saponis are responsible for that effect. So stop with the cut and paste "science" jobs.
 
SupremeSE said:
LJ100 is the ONLY STANDARDIZED Eurycoma extract in the world, containing 22% "Eurypeptides", the steroidal glycosapins that DECREASE SHBG. THIS IS WHY LJ100 IS PATENTED*

Vitex increases LH in men and also decreases estrogen and prolactin. It is indeed a Phyto-SERM:


English Title: Evidence for estrogen receptor β-selective activity of Vitex agnus-castus and isolated flavones.

Personal Authors: Jarry, H., Spengler, B., Porzel, A., Schmidt, J., Wuttke, W., Christoffel, V.
Author Affiliation: Abteilung für Klinische und Experimentelle Endokrinologie, Universitätsfrauenklinik Göttingen, Robert Koch-Strasse 40, 37075 Göttingen, Germany.
Editors: No editors
Document Title: Planta Medica, 2003 (Vol. 69) (No. 10) 945-947

Abstract:
Recent cell culture experiments indicated that extracts of V. agnus-castus (VAC) may contain yet unidentified phytoestrogens. Estrogenic actions are mediated via oestrogen receptors (ER). To investigate whether VAC compounds bind to the currently known isoforms ERα or ERβ, ligand-binding assays (LBA) were performed. Subtype specific ER-LBA revealed a binding of VAC to ERβ only. To isolate the ERβ-selective compounds, the extract was fractionated by bio-guidance. The flavonoid apigenin was isolated and identified as the most active ERβ-selective phytoestrogen in VAC. Other isolated compounds were vitexin and penduletin. These data demonstrate that the phytoestrogens in VAC are ERβ-selective.
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For the billion'th time, I know what LJ100 is, I have been using it in formulas for years now. There is nothing that says a alkaloid in Long jack binds to SHBG.

That Vitex study is talking about how it acts as a phytoestrogen.....I know its a phytoestrogen, and it will decrease prolactin, I said it increases LH but when it comes to men, the monks originally used it to help them stay celibate. Its called "chaste tree" for a reason.

But whatever your going to keep posting these studies and not reading what I am saying. You dont know how to interpret these studies....also you never said where the 500% increase in testosterone was suppose to come from.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
That says Tribulus Extract. That doesnt say 98% + protodiocin. Do you know how much of that extract used was protodiocin and how much were other actives in tribulus...there are tons of saponis in tribulus.

It also says "possibly" which translates to "thats our guess."

Like I said, you dont see synthetic protodiocin or some purified extract increasing LH. Many companies have sold tribulus standardized for protodiocin and pretty much nothing else and guess what, the products pretty much sucked. Protodiocin does play a roll in increasing total test, but it doesnt increase LH, other saponis are responsible for that effect. So stop with the cut and paste "science" jobs.
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The key constituents of Tribulus leaf include the steroidal saponins, mainly furostanol glycosides (including protodioscin and protogracillin) and small quantities of spirostanol glycosides. Other constituents include phytosterols (e.g. [beta]-sitosterol), and perhaps very small quantities of harmala alkaloids (tryptophanderived [beta]-carbolines) which may only occur in some varieties and have not been found in some investigations. Tribulus leaf contains higher concentrations of steroidal saponins than the fruit.

The furostanol glycosides are a subclass of steroidal saponins. They have a sugar group at the carbon-3 (C-3) position and a second sugar group at position C-26. Furostanol glycosides readily convert into spirostanol saponins (with one sugar group at C-3) in the presence of plant enzymes. (11) Such degradation, resulting in loss of sugars, may occur postharvest, in manufacturing or during experimental analysis.

Tribulus leaf standardized extract (TLSE) is a product obtained from the aerial parts of Tribulus terrestris, which contains mainly saponins of the furostanol type (not less than 45%, calculated as protodioscin) which was developed in Bulgaria from Mediterranean varieties of Tribulus.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
For the billion'th time, I know what LJ100 is, I have been using it in formulas for years now. There is nothing that says a alkaloid in Long jack binds to SHBG.

That Vitex study is talking about how it acts as a phytoestrogen.....I know its a phytoestrogen, and it will decrease prolactin, I said it increases LH but when it comes to men, the monks originally used it to help them stay celibate. Its called "chaste tree" for a reason.

But whatever your going to keep posting these studies and not reading what I am saying. You dont know how to interpret these studies....also you never said where the 500% increase in testosterone was suppose to come from.
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Do you know the DIFFERENCE between LJ100 and Long Jack? Can you please tell me? :)

Vitex is not an anaphrodisiac in men, that is a MYTH, derived from the fact that Vitex was used to treat female fertility issues, JUST LIKE CLOMID, which also increases LH.
 
SupremeSE said:
The key constituents of Tribulus leaf include the steroidal saponins, mainly furostanol glycosides (including protodioscin and protogracillin) and small quantities of spirostanol glycosides. (5-7) Other constituents include phytosterols (e.g. [beta]-sitosterol), (8) and perhaps very small quantities of harmala alkaloids (tryptophanderived [beta]-carbolines) which may only occur in some varieties (9) and have not been found in some investigations. (10) Tribulus leaf contains higher concentrations of steroidal saponins than the fruit.

The furostanol glycosides are a subclass of steroidal saponins. They have a sugar group at the carbon-3 (C-3) position and a second sugar group at position C-26. Furostanol glycosides readily convert into spirostanol saponins (with one sugar group at C-3) in the presence of plant enzymes. (11) Such degradation, resulting in loss of sugars, may occur postharvest, in manufacturing or during experimental analysis.

Tribulus leaf standardized extract (TLSE) is a product obtained from the aerial parts of Tribulus terrestris, which contains mainly saponins of the furostanol type (not less than 45%, calculated as protodioscin) which was developed in Bulgaria from Mediterranean varieties of Tribulus.
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You’re never going to get it....like why are you cut and pasting all this stuff without even reading it. Or knowing what you are talking about.


When furastanol saponins are calculated they are calculated from the tested amount of Protodioscin. What happen there are so many furastanol saponins that only a UV test shows them and UV isnt that accurate and a waste of money, so they came up with ways to estimate, or calculate the amount of furastanol saponins based on the HPLC amount of Protodioscin. Thats what that means when you see "not less than 45%, calculated as protodioscin."
 
SupremeSE said:
Do you know the DIFFERENCE between LJ100 and Long Jack? Can you please tell me? :)

That is a MYTH, derived from the fact that Vitex was used to treat female fertility issues, JUST LIKE CLOMID, which also increases LH.
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You have to be kidding me. I just told you I know everything about long jack and tribulus.

LJ100 is an aged bark water extract of Long Jack low in quazinoids (sp), freeze-dried at -40c. There are many different extracts of long jack.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
You have to be kidding me. I just told you I know everything about long jack and tribulus.

LJ100 is an aged bark water extract of Long Jack low in quazinoids (sp), freeze-dried at -40c. There are many different extracts of long jack.
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LOL!!!

You DON'T KNOW!? AFTER THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION!

LJ100 is PATENTED! The ACTIVE INGREDIENT in "Long Jack" is Eurypeptides!!

Let me say that again:

LJ100 is PATENTED! The ACTIVE INGREDIENT in "Long Jack" is Eurypeptides!!LJ100 is STANDARDIZED to contain 22%!!

:duel:

Just like Protodioscin in tribulus, these Eurypeptides decrease SHBG, increase T, and even increase HGH and IGF-!
 
SupremeSE said:
LOL!!!

You DON'T KNOW!? AFTER THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION!

LJ100 is PATENTED! The ACTIVE INGREDIENT in "Long Jack" is Eurypeptides!!

Let me say that again:

LJ100 is PATENTED! The ACTIVE INGREDIENT in "Long Jack" is Eurypeptides!!

:duel:

Just like Protodioscin in tribulus, these Eurypeptides decrease HGH, increase T, and even increase HGH and IGF-!
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Ok, you are crazy. I just told you what LJ100 is. Yes its ALSO patented. There are many actives in it, the ones that are quantitatively tested for are Eurypeptides, thats correct. I told you the main difference is it’s an aged freeze dried water extract. All long jack contains Eurypeptides.
 
Look, your write up is full of info thats incorrect on alot of the ingredients, it wont increase penis size, and it wont produce a 500% rise in test levels......protodiocin doesnt increase LH, and nothing in Long Jack binds to SHBG not that anyone knows off as of now. Not even the people down the road from me at HP ingredients. If you call Annie, and ask her what ingredient in LJ100 binds to SHBG she will not have an answer for you. LJ100 will increase DHEA and total test and free test but that doesnt mean something is binding to SHBG.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Ok, you are crazy. I just told you what LJ100 is. Yes its ALSO patented. There are many actives in it, the ones that are quantitatively tested for are Eurypeptides, thats correct. I told you the main difference is it’s an aged freeze dried water extract. All long jack contains Eurypeptides.
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NOT ALL LONG JACK IS STANDARDIZED FOR 22% EURYPEPTIDES!!

:bb3:
 
SupremeSE said:
NOT ALL LONG JACK IS STANDARDIZED FOR 22% EURYPEPTIDES!!

:bb3:
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no sht. Who said it was...and whats with the colors and the large fonts and the !!!!.

I really think this is all a joke, as in not real. This cant be. I must be taking crazy pills like Mr. Mugatu.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Look, your write up is full of info thats incorrect on alot of the ingredients, it wont increase penis size, and it wont produce a 500% rise in test levels......protodiocin doesnt increase LH, and nothing in Long Jack binds to SHBG not that anyone knows off as of now. Not even the people down the road from me at HP ingredients. If you call Annie, and ask her what ingredient in LJ100 binds to SHBG she will not have an answer for you. LJ100 will increase DHEA and total test and free test but that doesnt mean something is binding to SHBG.
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Annie and George will both tell you that the Eurypeptides(22%) decreases SHBG, this is how it increase FREE T!

Are you reading the studies?:lol:
 
Chuck Diesel said:
no sht. Who said it was...and whats with the colors and the large fonts and the !!!!.

I really think this is all a joke, as it not real. This cant be. I must be taking crazy pills like Mr. Mugatu.
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LJ100 is the *ONLY standardized Eurycoma extract IN THE WORLD--are you getting that?

I don't know why you are being so abrasive, but it's ok to admit you are wrong when you are wrong. That is RESPECTABLE.

This was a GREAT thread and a GREAT DISCUSSION. I am sure many found it quite educating(as well as entertaing!)
 
SupremeSE said:
Annie and George will both tell you that the Eurypeptides(22%) decreases SHBG, this is how it increase FREE T!

Are you reading the studies?:lol:
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Ok, you know what, Im done.
 
well well well :)
what i can say by READING the studies in this thread is that chuck this guy must not read his own "copy and paste" "studies" lol
i mean come on why would you post stuff if you dont evan read whats in them lol hahaha
oooo and for all you wondering i called HP ingredients and the guy there told me that the studies DO NOT show that LJ100 binds to SHBG but it may decrease it

i repete IT DOSE NOT BIND TO IT:thumbsup:
 
Supreme SE, you know what, I am unbiased as hell. Send me a bottle, I'll do a review and post the results. there's only one way to settle this and that is to look at the results.
 
NateWA said:
Supreme SE, you know what, I am unbiased as hell. Send me a bottle, I'll do a review and post the results. there's only one way to settle this and that is to look at the results.
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HELL YEA! Are you in the USA? Send me your shipping info NOW. :):thumbsup:
 
NateWA said:
Supreme SE, you know what, I am unbiased as hell. Send me a bottle, I'll do a review and post the results. there's only one way to settle this and that is to look at the results.
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under what rock have you been ? ? havent seen you in ages
 
I would also like to send you a bottle, Chuck Diesel.
If Chuck declines, that bottle is up for grabs.

ANYONE who tries our products is a CUSTOMER FOR LIFE. Check out these logs: Invalid Link Removed
 
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