What do you guys think about Statins?

[BBiceps]

I ran into a YouTube video with MPMD and he had Steve and Leo on, I think they’re all nerds but they talked about steroids and heart damage and how to prevent it so I watched.

Leo kept talking about how good statins was and it was a miracle drug, he was saying Ezetimibe was great and he was taking it all the time.

It hurts my ears/eyes to listen/watch them for too long so I didn’t finish. I came to you guys to see what your opinion is about statins and if you guys use them during or after cycles?

 

[Nac]

I've been looking into exactly this, but due to where I live sourcing is the issue.

Myself, I'd be doing a combination therapy of a statin + ARB. Ezetimibe + Telmisartan would be my ideal choices. On paper they'd be synergistic and cover just about everything heart/vascular system healthwise both in terms of prevention and reduction...and there's studies showing it, too.

Pretty sure Vigorous Steve runs this exact combination as part of his basic ancilliaries.

There are also studies coming out demonstrating the combination benefits in regards to Covid.

 

[BBiceps]

I've been looking into exactly this, but due to where I live sourcing is the issue.

Myself, I'd be doing a combination therapy of a statin + ARB. Ezetimibe + Telmisartan would be my ideal choices. On paper they'd be synergistic and cover just about everything heart/vascular system healthwise both in terms of prevention and reduction...and there's studies showing it, too.

Pretty sure Vigorous Steve runs this exact combination as part of his basic ancilliaries.

There are also studies coming out demonstrating the combination benefits in regards to Covid.

This is interesting to me because I always hear about how bad statins is for you, I guess not, thanks for your input!

 

[Nac]

This is interesting to me because I always hear about how bad statins is for you, I guess not, thanks for your input!

Well, and this is obviously only my opinion but I've tried to base it off as much research as possible...statins have been controversial because there is doubt that their use results in lowered mortality rates. There's a few reasons for this.

Whilst statins do lower cholesterol, particularly ldl, it's not a huge reduction on average. And the increase in hdl is even less. Additionally, statins have been known to increase liver enzymes. I haven't seen this anecdotally, but it is reported.

Secondly, there's doubt that cardiovascular disease can be attributed to cholesterol levels, at least as a primary cause. Now, whilst there's little doubt that oxidised ldl is bad and a contributor, it's not a sole contributor. Not all ldl is "bad".

There's an alternative theory to cholesterol/ldl being responsible for CV disease, and that's the idea it's largely due to hemostasis, or vascular clotting. This is one reason why ARB drugs are now being used for CV disease rather than solely for hypertension.

So I'd disagree that Ezetimibe is a "miracle" drug. If anything deserves that title it's an ARB like Telmisartan.

Seems to me both processes can contribute to CV disease (plaque formation exacerbated by oxidised ldl...vascular clotting due to lifestyle choices). It's why I'd personally love to try a combination therapy. But if I had to choose monotherapy, Telmisartan would be my choice without doubt. It has much more relevance for our demographic.

EDIT: forgot to add...another potential benefit in favor of a statin is that there is data showing they reduce cardiac remodelling and improve ejection fractions

 

[Whisky]

W.

EDIT: forgot to add...another potential benefit in favor of a statin is that there is data showing they reduce cardiac remodelling and improve ejection fractions

Funnily enough I’ve been looking at statins for this reason and this reason only. I think most of the other benefits can be largely mirrored through natural supplementation but cardiac remodelling is obviously something we should all be cognisant and taking steps to mitigate

 

[BBiceps]

Funnily enough I’ve been looking at statins for this reason and this reason only. I think most of the other benefits can be largely mirrored through natural supplementation but cardiac remodelling is obviously something we should all be cognisant and taking steps to mitigate

Is that including all statins? I have some old Pravastatin laying around, should I start taking 1 eod now when blasting (mild blast, 400mg Test&Primo) before I add a oral, during the oral or after the cycle all together? I could call my Dr and get some more or ask for one of the other that Leo recommended so I could start today with those I already have

 

[Whisky]

Is that including all statins? I have some old Pravastatin laying around, should I start taking 1 eod now when blasting (mild blast, 400mg Test&Primo) before I add a oral, during the oral or after the cycle all together? I could call my Dr and get some more or ask for one of the other that Leo recommended so I could start today with those I already have

I’m still looking into it bro. I could be misquoting Derek but I think he might be predisposed to issue hence teli being in his stack but I’ve heard him and Leo talking about it frequently of late.

basically what I’m trying to establish is whether there’s a circumstance (bloods, generics etc) where it becomes a no brainer or whether everyone would benefit.

low dose aspirin is the other one I’m looking at as well.

interested (as always) if @Hyde has a view

 

[Nac]

Funnily enough I’ve been looking at statins for this reason and this reason only. I think most of the other benefits can be largely mirrored through natural supplementation but cardiac remodelling is obviously something we should all be cognisant and taking steps to mitigate

Yes I'd agree with the lipid improvement, I'm quite convinced with supplementation and diet being sufficient, for me at least, at improving lipid profile.

Cardiac remodelling...there's some good data already on Arjuna helping in that regard. And alot of the remodelling we see can be mitigated somewhat by just keeping blood pressure down and making sure the RAS is healthy.

basically what I’m trying to establish is whether there’s a circumstance (bloods, generics etc) where it becomes a no brainer or whether everyone would benefit.

I am beginning to see why Telmisartan is being recommended in our demographic especially as a "staple" ancillary drug over an AI and even diuretic. I used to put all my protective eggs into the plaque-reducing basket, but now it appears hemostasis and RAS is just as if not more important.

But yeah, of course, these are drugs and not lollies you pop just cos.

 

[bigdadybry]

I was prescribed a statin, didn't want to use it for the past 5 years. Not a true believer.
Agreed to try the lowest dose available. I used half of that per day, along with GW1516 and SR9011 prior to high intensity aerobic training (4 days/week). The statin was run for 2 months (1 month @ 10 mg = 2 months @ 5 mg). Labs were done a month after discontinuing the statin.
Dropped 60 from my total cholesterol.
This was a verbal number given over the phone. Once I get access to the online patient portal, I can share my before/after results.
Unfortunately, I can't say what accounted more for the change, but I may be able to next time since I discontinued the statin and have continued the GW/SR.

 

[Whisky]

Yes I'd agree with the lipid improvement, I'm quite convinced with supplementation and diet being sufficient, for me at least, at improving lipid profile.

Cardiac remodelling...there's some good data already on Arjuna helping in that regard. And alot of the remodelling we see can be mitigated somewhat by just keeping blood pressure down and making sure the RAS is healthy.



I am beginning to see why Telmisartan is being recommended in our demographic especially as a "staple" ancillary drug over an AI and even diuretic. I used to put all my protective eggs into the plaque-reducing basket, but now it appears hemostasis and RAS is just as if not more important.

But yeah, of course, these are drugs and not lollies you pop just cos.

yep, it’s a fine balance. I take a lot of stuff, mostly natural but a few meds like metformin, daily. My gut says taking drugs daily generally isn’t a good thing but my head says that we evolved to develop things that can improve our health

I can definitely feel myself slowly changing my anabolic useage, this injectable only cycle instinctively feels better on my body. I think this will be the last cut I use clen, I’m never going to compete (not even close to having the body for that) so it’s pointless adding that burden really.

we know that caber isn’t one for long term use so although I only use a very low dose at some point I need to find a 19nor range that doesn’t need it.

my gut says if I can’t maintain a typical bp of 120/80 on cycle through cardio and natural supps then I’d introduce teli but not till then.

cialis stays though. I use it sparingly but **** I love that ****

 

[Nac]

yep, it’s a fine balance. I take a lot of stuff, mostly natural but a few meds like metformin, daily. My gut says taking drugs daily generally isn’t a good thing but my head says that we evolved to develop things that can improve our health

I can definitely feel myself slowly changing my anabolic useage, this injectable only cycle instinctively feels better on my body. I think this will be the last cut I use clen, I’m never going to compete (not even close to having the body for that) so it’s pointless adding that burden really.

we know that caber isn’t one for long term use so although I only use a very low dose at some point I need to find a 19nor range that doesn’t need it.

my gut says if I can’t maintain a typical bp of 120/80 on cycle through cardio and natural supps then I’d introduce teli but not till then.

cialis stays though. I use it sparingly but **** I love that ****

I'm not trying to pimp Teli use, not at all. But if you haven't already I'd definitely recommend looking into its MoA beyond being just a BP medication. It's quite impressive.

Philosophically, I justify my Rx use in terms of utility. I have absolutely no issue taking natural supplements in amounts and "states" not found naturally, I also have no problem taking a medication for the same reason: effectiveness. In this respect, I see no difference between an Rx and a supplement.

 

[johnny412]

I ran into a YouTube video with MPMD and he had Steve and Leo on, I think they’re all nerds but they talked about steroids and heart damage and how to prevent it so I watched.

Leo kept talking about how good statins was and it was a miracle drug, he was saying Ezetimibe was great and he was taking it all the time.

It hurts my ears/eyes to listen/watch them for too long so I didn’t finish. I came to you guys to see what your opinion is about statins and if you guys use them during or after cycles?

i think its the devil!!!...wait...didnt have my glasses on sorry lol! i take them regularly prol for more than the last 10 years no issues

 

[BBiceps]

I’m still looking into it bro. I could be misquoting Derek but I think he might be predisposed to issue hence teli being in his stack but I’ve heard him and Leo talking about it frequently of late.

basically what I’m trying to establish is whether there’s a circumstance (bloods, generics etc) where it becomes a no brainer or whether everyone would benefit.

low dose aspirin is the other one I’m looking at as well.

interested (as always) if @Hyde has a view

Baby aspirin was recommended to me a few years ago and I have been using it since.

i think its the devil!!!...wait...didnt have my glasses on sorry lol! i take them regularly prol for more than the last 10 years no issues

Which statin have you used?

 

[Hyde]

Really glad this thread got posted. I’ve been thinking & reading about it a lot the last week again since my cruising bloodwork came back with crap LDL (137) and low estradiol from 120/120 test/eq per wk. As that means my lipids were probably garbage for the last 20 total weeks, seeing as there was a blast for competition prior to this cruise. 5 months likely promoting atherosclerosis, with what I would call fairly moderate usage (blast of 500-1,100 total mg for 12 weeks, cruising 200-240 since).

We know ezetimibe works to significantly lower LDL. It actually works the same at 5mg per day as 10mg they recently found, which saves 50% on drug costs and decreases use risk/side effects as well. We know it’s very well tolerated generally.

We know statins work to lower LDL significantly. We know rosuvastatin (crestor) works best, and just 10mg gets more consistent results than some of the other statins even at higher doses, with improved side effect profile.

We know that combo therapies of ezetimibe and rosuvastatin work excellent together, almost a totally cumulative effect. The main serious risk, albeit very small, for both drugs individually is developing rhabdomyolysis - if you run them you really want to get checks to see if there’s protein in your urine just to be sure, although increased muscle pains and aches should tell you something is up. I would absolutely be getting bloods frequently for a bit after starting if doing this totally solo. Although I think getting these through a doctor monitoring you is absolutely the way to go if you can get them to work with you obviously. Both also can be combined with niacin therapy as well.

I am honestly considering running 5mg ezetimibe, perhaps with 10mg rosuvastatin eod. I haven’t pulled the trigger on getting them yet, but I have definitely read enough studies to believe they work & would be worthwhile if you have plaque. But that’s the rub isn’t it - do you know if you even actually have plaque? Because you could high cholesterol but it’s your genetics that will also determine if/how you lay down plaque, and THAT is what’s going to drive CV.

 

[Hyde]

These were actually terrific videos from, wait for it, The Anabolic Doc:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Really worth your time. The gist was, if you have bad lipids, you should get a basic calcium scan, no contrast dyes and very affordable allegedly, to see if you are getting plaque. If you are, good diet and exercise are cornerstones that should already be in place, but statins & things like ezetimibe and some of the new pcsk9 inhibitor drugs can & should be utilized to get your LDL down under 70. If you get it down around 30, you will begin reversing your plaque. AND, there are NO downsides to having these low lipid levels in the context of someone already on HRT. If you don’t have plaque, then don’t medicate or worry about it.

 

[Hyde]

Lastly, I’ve heard it said regarding bp meds that one of the potential drawbacks is they are a self-fulfilling/fueling prophecy. You take them so diastolic bp lowers significantly. Heart gets to take it easy, gets weaker. Then you basically need to keep taking the drug longterm or else it has an even harder time keeping up with re-imposed demands. So if the demands are short-lived blasts, that might be acceptable, but as a longterm therapy, they definitely kind of become longterm therapy.

I have some telmisartan, and I will use it for sure if needed next blast, but I am not convinced this is something I want to live on year round sooner in life than necessary. Kind of like tadalafil - it’s awesome, but nobody stops taking it really when it gets added to the regiment.

Also, quality curcumin at doses of 1-3g daily has been shown to significantly lower lipids, and ~1g is generally sufficient to reverse LVH and increase ejection fraction rate as well.

 

[Nac]

These were actually terrific videos from, wait for it, The Anabolic Doc:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Really worth your time. The gist was, if you have bad lipids, you should get a basic calcium scan, no contrast dyes and very affordable allegedly, to see if you are getting plaque. If you are, good diet and exercise are cornerstones that should already be in place, but statins & things like ezetimibe and some of the new pcsk9 inhibitor drugs can & should be utilized to get your LDL down under 70. If you get it down around 30, you will begin reversing your plaque. AND, there are NO downsides to having these low lipid levels in the context of someone already on HRT. If you don’t have plaque, then don’t medicate or worry about it.

Lol I saw those too. His content is actually not bad if he has a decent guest.

I think I mentioned it in another thread, maybe it was eith Whisky too? I'd love to get a calcium score done. Where I live though there are fuk all places offering the service.

 

[Nac]

Lastly, I’ve heard it said regarding bp meds that one of the potential drawbacks is they are a self-fulfilling/fueling prophecy. You take them so diastolic bp lowers significantly. Heart gets to take it easy, gets weaker. Then you basically need to keep taking the drug longterm or else it has an even harder time keeping up with re-imposed demands. So if the demands are short-lived blasts, that might be acceptable, but as a longterm therapy, they definitely kind of become longterm therapy.

I have some telmisartan, and I will use it for sure if needed next blast, but I am not convinced this is something I want to live on year round sooner in life than necessary. Kind of like tadalafil - it’s awesome, but nobody stops taking it really when it gets added to the regiment.

One of my current projects is working on a list of proven foods and supplements that have a similar MoA to ARBs like Telmisartan, but don't also impact blood pressure too much. Its a very interesting area of research.

 

[johnny412]

Baby aspirin was recommended to me a few years ago and I have been using it since.



Which statin have you used?

not sure the wife loads my pill box lol. it was lipitor but dr changed it a long time ago. ill try and find my pill bottle later

 

[johnny412]

Baby aspirin was recommended to me a few years ago and I have been using it since.



Which statin have you used?

its rosuvastatin

 

[BBiceps]

These were actually terrific videos from, wait for it, The Anabolic Doc:

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Really worth your time. The gist was, if you have bad lipids, you should get a basic calcium scan, no contrast dyes and very affordable allegedly, to see if you are getting plaque. If you are, good diet and exercise are cornerstones that should already be in place, but statins & things like ezetimibe and some of the new pcsk9 inhibitor drugs can & should be utilized to get your LDL down under 70. If you get it down around 30, you will begin reversing your plaque. AND, there are NO downsides to having these low lipid levels in the context of someone already on HRT. If you don’t have plaque, then don’t medicate or worry about it.

That was actually some good videos, thanks!

According to the videos they said to only use the meds (statins) if you have plaque/build up but according to Leo he was using the meds for prevention… I’m back to being confused, lol.
It makes the most sense to use meds/statins to treat something but on another hand since we do use PED’s could it be good to use them (statins) for prevention..? AI’s usually hurt your cholesterol so could it be an idea to dose statins with Al?

idk, it’s a interesting topic, thanks for getting in on this guys!

 

[Marne40]

Not much to add on the scientific front, but I’ve been on atorvastatin since I was in my early 30s. I’m genetically prone to have fvcked cholesterol no matter what I’m eating, how much I exercise, or what supplements I take. Those things certainly help keep it “low sh!tty”, but never put me in an optimal ratio. Bloodwork confirms the statins definitely lower ldl and makes the “good/bad” ratio look better, but it’s obviously nothing I feel and I have no idea if it’s helping with other things. Some cool info in here for sure though and definitely worth looking into further.

 

[Nac]

@BBiceps, you probably don't need me pointing this out but anyway, if you're tentative, maybe this will help...

Testing is always the best first choice. Unsure about starting a statin? There are 3 variables I can see.

1) Get your cholesterol tested.
2) Get a calcium score done.
3) Don't do either.

1) Your current cholesterol sucks. But youre on blast. Are you doing everything you can dietary wise to keep lipids as optimal as possible? Are you doing *some* cardio? I'd probably get diet and cardio where you think it needs to be, then test cholesterol. If lipids suck even though diet/cardio is "optimal", then maybe a statin is viable. But, consider, a statin can take 2+ weeks to do its thing. Might not be worth going on if you intend stopping the statin post-blast. Maybe.

2) The calcium score test will give you an idea of how your vascular system is faring due to more longterm factors. Which brings up an important point: plaque buildup is not an acute event, it occurs over time, chronically.

3) No testing, you just make some assumptions, which could be wrong, but your subsequent actions (or not) will depend on how much your weigh any possible risk. In other words, moving forward, you aim to do what you're prepared to do with diet and supplements to minimize plaque buildup and even perhaps reduce any you may have. We've talked about this in other threads. Lots of options with food and supps.

Again, plaque buildup takes time. I wouldn't stress too much about making a decision right now. I'd at least recommend doing some lipid testing once youre back on cruise and where everything is supposed to be its healthiest (low AAS intake, good diet, good cardio, etc). If lipids suck at this time, despite food/supplements help, I'd certainly be looking at that statin more seriously.

 

[johnny412]

@BBiceps, you probably don't need me pointing this out but anyway, if you're tentative, maybe this will help...

Testing is always the best first choice. Unsure about starting a statin? There are 3 variables I can see.

1) Get your cholesterol tested.
2) Get a calcium score done.
3) Don't do either.

1) Your current cholesterol sucks. But youre on blast. Are you doing everything you can dietary wise to keep lipids as optimal as possible? Are you doing *some* cardio? I'd probably get diet and cardio where you think it needs to be, then test cholesterol. If lipids suck even though diet/cardio is "optimal", then maybe a statin is viable. But, consider, a statin can take 2+ weeks to do its thing. Might not be worth going on if you intend stopping the statin post-blast. Maybe.

2) The calcium score test will give you an idea of how your vascular system is faring due to more longterm factors. Which brings up an important point: plaque buildup is not an acute event, it occurs over time, chronically.

3) No testing, you just make some assumptions, which could be wrong, but your subsequent actions (or not) will depend on how much your weigh any possible risk. In other words, moving forward, you aim to do what you're prepared to do with diet and supplements to minimize plaque buildup and even perhaps reduce any you may have. We've talked about this in other threads. Lots of options with food and supps.

Again, plaque buildup takes time. I wouldn't stress too much about making a decision right now. I'd at least recommend doing some lipid testing once youre back on cruise and where everything is supposed to be its healthiest (low AAS intake, good diet, good cardio, etc). If lipids suck at this time, despite food/supplements help, I'd certainly be looking at that statin more seriously.

cardio improves cholesterol?

 

[Smont]

I'm following to gain some knowledge, I've always been told to avoid statins if possible and that there not good for you. But this is just stuff I remember hearing 5-10 years ago. I've not even heard of most the things you guys are talking about except Telmisartan

 

[Nac]

cardio improves cholesterol?

It doesn't seem to have much direct impact on ldl numbers, but can increase hdl and lower Trig.

The wider benefits will include vascular tone and endothelial function etc, so, along with good diet and supps, will just add to the bigger picture of minimizing ldl oxidation and damage.

I guess I was coming more from the angle of if Bbiceps is tentative or wary about starting a statin when he might not need to, or is going to use his cholesterol numbers to inform his decision, he should take into account all contributing factors to what those numbers are (AAS intake, diet, cardio, etc).

 

[Smont]

I am Interested in Telmisartan, been searching for some for a while now, what's the odds of getting fake Telmisartan? Is it something that gets counterfeit often outside of getting a script?

 

[Smont]

cardio improves cholesterol?

Better then anything natural you can take

 

[johnny412]

Better then anything natural you can take

well damn lol i guess i should start doin a little

 

[Smont]

Better then anything natural you can take

Long distance runners usually have cholesterol below the reference range

 

[Smont]

It doesn't seem to have much direct impact on ldl numbers, but can increase hdl and lower Trig.

The wider benefits will include vascular tone and endothelial function etc, so, along with good diet and supps, will just add to the bigger picture of minimizing ldl oxidation and damage.

I've seen it dramatically lower ppls levels many times

 

[johnny412]

Long distance runners usually have cholesterol below the reference range

i dont think im gonna get that commited to it lol i do have a jump rope and excrecise bike and treadmill i guess i can start adding some after weights

 

[Smont]

Sorry I'm wording this poorly, lower the bad and raise the good

 

[johnny412]

Sorry I'm wording this poorly, lower the bad and raise the good

thats good enough

 

[Nac]

I've seen it dramatically lower ppls levels many times

Really? Well fuk that's awesome.

 

[Smont]

It could also have been associated with the weight loss and clean diet that went along with the running, there's variables

 

[Smont]

Really? Well fuk that's awesome.

Check my last post, there's variables

 

[Smont]

There's a link between cardio and lower hematocrit too

 

[Nac]

It could also have been associated with the weight loss and clean diet that went along with the running, there's variables

Check my last post, there's variables

Yip, sure.

I have no anecdotal evidence of cardio alone lowering ldl. Like you implied, anecdotally it's always mixed in with other lifestyle confounding factors. So I'm pretty much deferring to studies on healthy and unhealthy populations where cardio alone is used as the only variable.

But yeah, cardio is clearly good.

 

[BBiceps]

@BBiceps, you probably don't need me pointing this out but anyway, if you're tentative, maybe this will help...

Testing is always the best first choice. Unsure about starting a statin? There are 3 variables I can see.

1) Get your cholesterol tested.
2) Get a calcium score done.
3) Don't do either.

1) Your current cholesterol sucks. But youre on blast. Are you doing everything you can dietary wise to keep lipids as optimal as possible? Are you doing *some* cardio? I'd probably get diet and cardio where you think it needs to be, then test cholesterol. If lipids suck even though diet/cardio is "optimal", then maybe a statin is viable. But, consider, a statin can take 2+ weeks to do its thing. Might not be worth going on if you intend stopping the statin post-blast. Maybe.

2) The calcium score test will give you an idea of how your vascular system is faring due to more longterm factors. Which brings up an important point: plaque buildup is not an acute event, it occurs over time, chronically.

3) No testing, you just make some assumptions, which could be wrong, but your subsequent actions (or not) will depend on how much your weigh any possible risk. In other words, moving forward, you aim to do what you're prepared to do with diet and supplements to minimize plaque buildup and even perhaps reduce any you may have. We've talked about this in other threads. Lots of options with food and supps.

Again, plaque buildup takes time. I wouldn't stress too much about making a decision right now. I'd at least recommend doing some lipid testing once youre back on cruise and where everything is supposed to be its healthiest (low AAS intake, good diet, good cardio, etc). If lipids suck at this time, despite food/supplements help, I'd certainly be looking at that statin more seriously.

Yeah testing is the best way to go, maybe I should get a calcium score? Naw, I’m not so worried about my cholesterol, as long as I stay away from heavy/long oral and AI use it’s usually in range, even on blast. My bp is always low, no matter what I do and I always do cardio so I have no reason to suspect any bad build up. The podcast just got me thinking different about statins and was curious of “what I should do” and if it was smart to include it.

 

[Smont]

Yeah testing is the best way to go, maybe I should get a calcium score? Naw, I’m not so worried about my cholesterol, as long as I stay away from heavy/long oral and AI use it’s usually in range, even on blast. My bp is always low, no matter what I do and I always do cardio so I have no reason to suspect any bad build up. The podcast just got me thinking different about statins and was curious of “what I should do” and if it was smart to include it.

Id just take a boatload of orals with some carderine so I can pretend my cholesterol isint going up

 

[BBiceps]

Id just take a boatload of orals with some carderine so I can pretend my cholesterol isint going up

I’m still scared of Cardarine…

 

[Smont]

I’m still scared of Cardarine…

Im not worried about the cancer thing, if I'm not mistaken it was only in mice and the human equivalent is like 80mg a day. Besides, I feel like everything we ingest from food to vitamins has at least 1 study where they linked it to cancer.
I just use it sparingly when I feel like I need something extra or to mask some shitty lipids lol

 

[johnny412]

Im not worried about the cancer thing, if I'm not mistaken it was only in mice and the human equivalent is like 80mg a day. Besides, I feel like everything we ingest from food to vitamins has at least 1 study where they linked it to cancer.
I just use it sparingly when I feel like I need something extra or to mask some shitty lipids lol

i tried cardarine and didnt get anything out of it

 

[Smont]

i tried cardarine and didnt get anything out of it

I don't get much in terms of a cardio boost, but it lowers certain health markers.

I think ppl hear cardio in a pill and think it's going to make a big difference, but for the average person who's not a high level athlete or does a **** ton of cardio, we're not going to notice the difference.

But if your a long distance runners or cyclist and it improves your time by a minute, that's a huge difference. There going to instantly notice that. Me and you and your average gym rat aren't going to see a difference. Even if it gave me the ability to exert 5% more effort in my boxing workouts, I'm not going to see any difference. But if a top level boxer got a 5% performance boost, it could be the difference between a number 5 rank and a world championship.

Catch my drift?

 

[Hyde]

i tried cardarine and didnt get anything out of it

Normally I don’t either, but if I’m on harsh stuff like orals, tren, or the like and lacking endurance to even train it makes a huge difference. The bigger your current GPP deficit, the more you will notice it keeping you going.

It’s a bandaid, but useful at the right times. Or you can use it in a fatloss stack to help get through your days a bit easier on low cals and carbs.

 

[Smont]

If your fasted glucose levels are high, maybe from bulking or just eating crappy, 10mg of carderine before bed will have a nice impact on your fasted levels in the morning. I also feel like 10-20mg will erase a couple hundred calories from your diet as well. I noticed that personally and I've heard ppl say adding 10mg of carderine is like cutting 500 calories. " I don't believe it's that big of a difference tho"

 

[Smont]

Normally I don’t either, but if I’m on harsh stuff like orals, tren, or the like and lacking endurance to even train it makes a huge difference. The bigger your current GPP deficit, the more you will notice it keeping you going.

It’s a bandaid, but useful at the right times. Or you can use it in a fatloss stack to help get through your days a bit easier on low cals and carbs.

I like it when on sd, before bed like a gda and when Ive been slacking off on the diet for too long.

 

[bigdadybry]

Im not worried about the cancer thing, if I'm not mistaken it was only in mice and the human equivalent is like 80mg a day. Besides, I feel like everything we ingest from food to vitamins has at least 1 study where they linked it to cancer.
I just use it sparingly when I feel like I need something extra or to mask some shitty lipids lol

And the equivalent of a human on cardarine for a lifetime (if I am not mistaken).

 

[Danksta710]

Careful with that "Leo" guy. Anyone can make YT videos. It's kinda scary he has so many guys online now talking about whether a statin is right for them. I can't help but think that's a conversation you want to have with a real MD.

Leo offers a mix of good and bad advice with his channel. Eventually people will see through him I hope.