Water IM shots need to know

Jinsun

Jinsun

Well-known member
So, I finally got my GH. Till now, I've avoided injecting anything that isn't oil in to the muscle, so naturally I am a bit hesitant about mixing the gh with bac and then injecting it IM. Is there anything I should be careful about when doing this? Any pointers I should know?

Tnx
 
Jinsun said:
So, I finally got my GH. Till now, I've avoided injecting anything that isn't oil in to the muscle, so naturally I am a bit hesitant about mixing the gh with bac and then injecting it IM. Is there anything I should be careful about when doing this? Any pointers I should know?

Tnx
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how come your going IM rather than sub q bro?

aside from test suspension I’ve always put anything water based like gh/peptides sub q tbh

not that I’ve heard of any issues going im - suspension had a bit more pip but that was the only difference I noted.
 
I also use GH via SQ. No sense scarring muscle. It makes no difference. The GH won't act locally in the muscle to make it grow more.
 
It has higher bioavailability going IM. It's peak is also shorter but higher IM. Lots of folk seem to be doing it IM also.
 
Jinsun said:
It has higher bioavailability going IM. It's peak is also shorter but higher IM. Lots of folk seem to be doing it IM also.
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Do you have a study or data to back this up? My understanding was that bioavailability was better SQ. Quick absorption is what you want because GH is so fragile. It honestly doesn't make sense that IM would be better.
 
I have seen it done both ways by people that are fairly experienced so I’ll just accept the fact that there may or may not be a good reason to do it. That really isn’t the question here.

I have used l-carnatine in water and glutathione in water both IM. I use 30ga 1/2” slin pins and just bury it and press even further into the muscle while injecting. Same as I do when I use slin pins with oil. Maybe someone will have some little pointer but as far as my personal experience this works just fine.
 
I will also add that I do just do my gh subq but the standard testing method I’ve seen on another board is 10iu into the bicep IM before getting igf tested. So it’s not like people don’t do IM with gh.
 
do your GH subq bro why would you do it IM??? Anyways if you have any questions about mixing or whatever about the gh I can help you
 
trumac said:
I will also add that I do just do my gh subq but the standard testing method I’ve seen on another board is 10iu into the bicep IM before getting igf tested. So it’s not like people don’t do IM with gh.
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It’s not that you can’t It’s simply there’s no reason for it. Why would you intensify your scar tissue by doing IM... doing steroids IM already does that pretty badly.. also subq is so much easier and faster...
 
Mathb33 said:
It’s not that you can’t It’s simply there’s no reason for it. Why would you intensify your scar tissue by doing IM... doing steroids IM already does that pretty badly.. also subq is so much easier and faster...
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Like I said, I do mine subq. I don’t know why you would do IM, just saying I’ve seen it done
 
GH is extremely delicate! If you bought the Chinese kits, it's almost certainly packed under vacuum. My process looks like this:

Draw a full ml of air and inject it slowly into the empty GH vial (this will keep it from sucking the bac water from the syringe). Draw up 1ml of bac water and slowly drop it down the side of the vial, NOT into the cake at the bottom. Do not shake, swirl, or otherwise molest the vial. Just leave it for a few minutes, it'll dissolve itself. Draw what you need with a slin pin and slowly inject it SQ. Make sure you're not putting pressure on the injection site during or after. The GH is broken down really easily, so you need to take care for maximum effect!
 
Plenty of people pin GH IM, and a lot of people including Mike Arnold say there is no scar tissue formation when using a slin pin. I prefer IM GH as I find it effects my fasting blood sugar less and still results in the same IGF elevation.
 
While I haven't researched this thoroughly, I seem to remember reading that IM has a slightly higher biovail, at around 10 to 15%. I'll look into it in the evening.

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IM has a higher peak but leaves the system quicker. Which I tend to utilize in the AM shoot, when I stay fasted for a couple of hours upon waking up. Judging from this study though, the peaks from IM are unproportionally higher compared to SQ. As somebody on a different forum mentioned, and I kinda agree: it seems like the longer SQ curve doesn't compensate for the lower peak: the integrals under the curves don't appear to be the same.

Anyway, I'm thinking IM in the AM and SQ in the evening.
 
Jinsun said:
While I haven't researched this thoroughly, I seem to remember reading that IM has a slightly higher biovail, at around 10 to 15%. I'll look into it in the evening.

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IM has a higher peak but leaves the system quicker. Which I tend to utilize in the AM shoot, when I stay fasted for a couple of hours upon waking up. Judging from this study though, the peaks from IM are unproportionally higher compared to SQ. As somebody on a different forum mentioned, and I kinda agree: it seems like the longer SQ curve doesn't compensate for the lower peak: the integrals under the curves don't appear to be the same.

Anyway, I'm thinking IM in the AM and SQ in the evening.
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let me know if you dig into it tonight and find that info because as far as I remember there’s no difference betweenn subq and Im.
 
MadStax said:
GH is extremely delicate! If you bought the Chinese kits, it's almost certainly packed under vacuum.
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Didn't you @Mathb33 state just the opposite last week? That if the vial is under a vacuum that it's a good sign?
Anyway, my vials are not under vacuum, meaning I didn't had to depressurise the vial before reconstituting.
 
Jinsun said:
Didn't you @Mathb33 state just the opposite last week? That if the vial is under a vacuum that it's a good sign?
Anyway, my vials are not under vacuum, meaning I didn't had to depressurise the vial before reconstituting.
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Yeah it’s normally vacuumed so the powder doesn’t move at all.
 
Jinsun said:
Didn't you @Mathb33 state just the opposite last week? That if the vial is under a vacuum that it's a good sign?
Anyway, my vials are not under vacuum, meaning I didn't had to depressurise the vial before reconstituting.
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yeah mine are under vacuum (Chinese generic gh)
 
Jinsun said:
Didn't you @Mathb33 state just the opposite last week? That if the vial is under a vacuum that it's a good sign?
Anyway, my vials are not under vacuum, meaning I didn't had to depressurise the vial before reconstituting.
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Mine are always under vacuum as well
 
So, pinned 1 IU in my quad today. Had some pain 5 minutes after pin, which went away in the next 5 minutes. Weird. And now it's like I almost didnt pinn at all.

Also, pined 1 IU SQ yesterday, before sleep. Didnt get any lethargy or sleepiness, like I've heard others talk about. Maybe thats still to come. Maybe I wont get that side at all ...

Maybe I'm feeling extra hot. Yo know, got that swaaag ... but for real, it's like it's a couple degrees warmer in my appartement.
 
Jinsun said:
So, pinned 1 IU in my quad today. Had some pain 5 minutes after pin, which went away in the next 5 minutes. Weird. And now it's like I almost didnt pinn at all.

Also, pined 1 IU SQ yesterday, before sleep. Didnt get any lethargy or sleepiness, like I've heard others talk about. Maybe thats still to come. Maybe I wont get that side at all ...

Maybe I'm feeling extra hot. Yo know, got that swaaag ... but for real, it's like it's a couple degrees warmer in my appartement.
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I wouldn’t worry about lethargy at 1 iu. I’ve gone up to 3-4 iu (not a large dose I know) in the morning and not gotten lethargy. It does improve sleep and give me carpal tunnel tho
 
trumac said:
I wouldn’t worry about lethargy at 1 iu. I’ve gone up to 3-4 iu (not a large dose I know) in the morning and not gotten lethargy. It does improve sleep and give me carpal tunnel tho
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Ok. I'm starting with 2 iu and will slowly work my way up to 4.

How fast does it give you carpal tunel?
 
Jinsun said:
Ok. I'm starting with 2 iu and will slowly work my way up to 4.

How fast does it give you carpal tunel?
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The slower you titrate up the better. I am currently in the early stages of a gh run and I did 2 iu for a few weeks. Now I’m doing 2.5 which I’ll do for a few more and so on. Luckily gh is a marathon and you can take your time
 
Jinsun said:
So, pinned 1 IU in my quad today. Had some pain 5 minutes after pin, which went away in the next 5 minutes. Weird. And now it's like I almost didnt pinn at all.

Also, pined 1 IU SQ yesterday, before sleep. Didnt get any lethargy or sleepiness, like I've heard others talk about. Maybe thats still to come. Maybe I wont get that side at all ...

Maybe I'm feeling extra hot. Yo know, got that swaaag ... but for real, it's like it's a couple degrees warmer in my appartement.
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I always get great sleep from mk677 dosed before bed, sleep better than when i take melatonin. And in the beginning i always have more energy and i do run perhaps a bit hotter while on it. Lethargy (sporadic, which is merely blood sugar drops throughout the day) kicks in after a few days,

But its as if i start to lose these effects after 1-2 weeks. I mean its still working but niwhere near as potent, but prolactin unfortunately remains.



Perhaps i produce more gh from these pulses than the equivalent of 1 iu?



Lets just hope you didnt get bunk stuff, which is unfortunately a possibility.
 
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I’m pinning 3.5 iu ed at the moment. I do get periods of tiredness during the day. No significant shift in sleep but I am smashing 100mg adrol daily as well and my rhr always goes up on cycle with a decrease with sleep. It’s not as pronounced an increase as the summer when I ran tren with no gh though.
 
Jinsun said:
Ok. I'm starting with 2 iu and will slowly work my way up to 4.

How fast does it give you carpal tunel?
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I haven’t done this but I have seen a lot of people start to split their dose at that point ie 2iu am 2iu pm
 
trumac said:
I haven’t done this but I have seen a lot of people start to split their dose at that point ie 2iu am 2iu pm
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Yeah I don’t see a reason to take it all at one point. A lot of knowledgeable person (top coach in the bodybuilding world) seem to agree that before bed is a bad idea and best way to split would be AM and early evening or after the gym. This is what I do.
 
Mathb33 said:
Yeah I don’t see a reason to take it all at one point. A lot of knowledgeable person (top coach in the bodybuilding world) seem to agree that before bed is a bad idea and best way to split would be AM and early evening or after the gym. This is what I do.
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Why would it be a bad idea to take gh before bed? I think you are suppressed anyway for like 24 hours or so, so you are not getting much if any natural production...unless i am hugely mistaken.

For me mk677 pre bed is the most effective...it is damn powerful taking it that way...i even sometimes wake up hypo few hours later feeling very weak and anxious, worried i am going to pass away unless i eat sth lol
Then i eat a piece of bread and am fine.

I srs think much of the anxiety people experience on mk is due to hypo episodes...its easy to panic when all of a sudden you start feeling weak, out of breath, sweating and not realizing at the first moment what the f is going on.
 
CroLifter said:
Why would it be a bad idea to take gh before bed? I think you are suppressed anyway for like 24 hours or so, so you are not getting much if any natural production...unless i am hugely mistaken.

For me mk677 pre bed is the most effective...it is damn powerful taking it that way...i even sometimes wake up hypo few hours later feeling very weak and anxious, worried i am going to pass away unless i eat sth lol
Then i eat a piece of bread and am fine.

I srs think much of the anxiety people experience on mk is due to hypo episodes...its easy to panic when all of a sudden you start feeling weak, out of breath, sweating and not realizing at the first moment what the f is going on.
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This is an interesting theory. My understanding was that if you did the second dose of GH in the early afternoon, you would have normal production overnight. I'm omw to the gym, but if nobody has evidence to support this either way, I'll check it out.

As for the anxiety, I have to say no to the anxiety being hypo. I get bad anxiety from MK, but not while taking it, I get it when I discontinue it.
 
MadStax said:
This is an interesting theory. My understanding was that if you did the second dose of GH in the early afternoon, you would have normal production overnight. I'm omw to the gym, but if nobody has evidence to support this either way, I'll check it out.

As for the anxiety, I have to say no to the anxiety being hypo. I get bad anxiety from MK, but not while taking it, I get it when I discontinue it.
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Like i said i am not sure on the whole natty production while on exogenous gh...i believe i heard it takes like 1-2 days to recover but i could be wrong.

As far as anxiety on mk yes i only get it when i feel weak and hypo...upon withdrawing i feel nothing except my libido starts to slowly return after about 3 days of being off

Fullness and pumps also slowly start to fade away (unless i am concurrently on test also).
 
@CroLifter i couldn’t tell you the logic behind it as I don’t have anything to back up my claims! But I’ve learned in this game that when you have the top athletes and the top coaches say something, it’s enough for me to dose my second dose early afternoon and not before bed at like 12:00.
 
Mathb33 said:
@CroLifter i couldn’t tell you the logic behind it as I don’t have anything to back up my claims! But I’ve learned in this game that when you have the top athletes and the top coaches say something, it’s enough for me to dose my second dose early afternoon and not before bed at like 12:00.
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Perhaps it takes that amount of time to get max igf levels so that you go to sleep while levels are highest?

Idk...i feel mk pretty rapidly, within less than an hour, i feel drowsiness, hunger and sometimes a little hypo ( within 2-3 hours)

like i said for me its a solid sleep aid, on par or better than melatonin!

I would guess gh would be more rapid



I mean it doesnt matter as long as you are getting results..i just always thought one wanted to dose gh as far away from carb heavy meals as possible.


@Jinsun if you were getting drowsy and sleep benefits from mk and peps, you not getting that from pinning gh would ring an alarm bell or two to me.
 
CroLifter said:
Perhaps it takes that amount of time to get max igf levels so that you go to sleep while levels are highest?

Idk...i feel mk pretty rapidly, within less than an hour, i feel drowsiness, hunger and sometimes a little hypo ( within 2-3 hours)

like i said for me its a solid sleep aid, on par or better than melatonin!

I would guess gh would be more rapid



I mean it doesnt matter as long as you are getting results..i just always thought one wanted to dose gh as far away from carb heavy meals as possible.


@Jinsun if you were getting drowsy and sleep benefits from mk and peps, you not getting that from pinning gh would ring an alarm bell or two to me.
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Tbh I’ve been super curious to know why all these guys that are super knowledgeable say that. They all seem to say just before bed is an horrible idea for hgh but I’m looking man and I CANNOT find any info... and you know these guys too they’ll tell you but won’t explain why. So annoying. Anyways I know you’re a man of research and studies so if you get your hands on infos I’d really love to read / learn about it
 
I am the MAN...




...of rodent studies 😁




Should we summon him...

Where is that guy starscream when you need him?
 
CroLifter said:
@Jinsun if you were getting drowsy and sleep benefits from mk and peps, you not getting that from pinning gh would ring an alarm bell or two to me.
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Nah, I think I'm getting a bit more tired. Probably will be even more in a couple of days.

As for the pre-bed dosing ... I didn't get to into it, but it's commonly advised to do it somewhere before bed. Maybe not right before, but somewhere in the vicinity, like 2h before, idk ... The dosing schedule also differs depending on your goals and what not. So it's not just one straight forward answer what is best and what not. For now, I'm just testing how I respond to it ...
 
Cro I agree with a lot of what you are saying in regards to MK. I take it pre bed. It helps sleep etc. I think it’s bc of the massive gh pulse it causes if I’m not mistaken. But I don’t think MK and actual gh act quite the same in this instance.
 
trumac said:
The slower you titrate up the better. I am currently in the early stages of a gh run and I did 2 iu for a few weeks. Now I’m doing 2.5 which I’ll do for a few more and so on. Luckily gh is a marathon and you can take your time
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And you got carpal at 2IU?
 
trumac said:
Cro I agree with a lot of what you are saying in regards to MK. I take it pre bed. It helps sleep etc. I think it’s bc of the massive gh pulse it causes if I’m not mistaken. But I don’t think MK and actual gh act quite the same in this instance.
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Would be interesting to compare that initial massive gh pulse from mk to actual iu's of exo gh...easier said than done though lol
 
CroLifter said:
Would be interesting to compare that initial massive gh pulse from mk to actual iu's of exo gh...easier said than done though lol
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There is a thread comparing mk and gh over in the igf section. Seems like it’s comparable to a few iu of exo gh. I haven’t read it in a long time I could be remembering wrong
 
trumac said:
There is a thread comparing mk and gh over in the igf section. Seems like it’s comparable to a few iu of exo gh. I haven’t read it in a long time I could be remembering wrong
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I think the general consensus was that 2iu was about the most you could hope for, but that this would fade fast as you developed immunity to the effects. This is why it's suggested to take a lot of off days with MK. Even with the off days, you'll pulse less and less over time.
 
If i understand things right we try to avoid eating before or after gh to avoid the insulin spike blunting the effectiveness.

this is the reason I dose first thing am and last thing pm. It’s the two times of the day where logistically I can not eat for a few hours before or after without it hammering my chances of getting calories in.

I have heard the prep coach talk on BFR about utilising it first thing am for fat burning and around the workout for muscle building but can’t recall what the nutrition protocol was for the workout dosing.
 
Whisky said:
If i understand things right we try to avoid eating before or after gh to avoid the insulin spike blunting the effectiveness.

this is the reason I dose first thing am and last thing pm. It’s the two times of the day where logistically I can not eat for a few hours before or after without it hammering my chances of getting calories in.

I have heard the prep coach talk on BFR about utilising it first thing am for fat burning and around the workout for muscle building but can’t recall what the nutrition protocol was for the workout dosing.
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I'm actually thinking about recomping on GH. Could one pin like 3 iu in the am, stay fasted for 4h, do cardio or smthn, the eat and go lift weights and then pin 1 more IU after workout or what ever suits best for hypertrophy. Basically IF with GH.
 
Jinsun said:
I'm actually thinking about recomping on GH. Could one pin like 3 iu in the am, stay fasted for 4h, do cardio or smthn, the eat and go lift weights and then pin 1 more IU after workout or what ever suits best for hypertrophy. Basically IF with GH.
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Four hours is excessive! 30-45 minutes should be good.
 
Jinsun said:
I'm actually thinking about recomping on GH. Could one pin like 3 iu in the am, stay fasted for 4h, do cardio or smthn, the eat and go lift weights and then pin 1 more IU after workout or what ever suits best for hypertrophy. Basically IF with GH.
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this is pretty similar to what I do generally. For overall longevity benefits I try to have a 14 hour fast daily so try not to eat after 9am until 11am next day.

that fits with my lifestyle as I’m busy in the mornings and don’t get chance to eat anyway and my cardio is always fasted in the am (just prefer fasted cardio).

on my current bulk I’m slowly gaining weight no fat (maybe losing some) so it seems to be working.

the limited eating window will present a challenge in getting enough calories soon though (it’s already tough and I will need to increase)
 
MadStax said:
I think the general consensus was that 2iu was about the most you could hope for, but that this would fade fast as you developed immunity to the effects. This is why it's suggested to take a lot of off days with MK. Even with the off days, you'll pulse less and less over time.
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I did mike Arnold’s 8 on 4 off protocol with mk and it seemed to work well. I know a lot of people do 5-2 which is what I actually do with gh
 
Whisky said:
the limited eating window will present a challenge in getting enough calories soon though (it’s already tough and I will need to increase)
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Indeed. I am trying to bulk now, and am doing 12 / 12 IF. With all my skating, combined with weight lifting, I need 4k+ to bulk. I tried 8 / 16 first, and that was impossible bro, so then I tried 14 / 10 and eventually landed at 12 / 12.

Whisky said:
on my current bulk I’m slowly gaining weight no fat (maybe losing some) so it seems to be working.
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But are you also on an aas cycle? Otherwise, yeah, this is what I had in mind.

Whisky said:
this is pretty similar to what I do generally. For overall longevity benefits I try to have a 14 hour fast daily so try not to eat after 9am until 11am next day.
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I think fasting is so healthy and something that we usually don't do. It's really good for gut health. Especially when bulking, my digestion always worsen, I get totally bloated and fart a lot. This time around, doing 12 / 12 seems to be helping a lot. But I think 24h fasts are not a bad idea to do time to time. And maybe even longer ones once a year ...
 
@Jinsun why the hell would you do int fasting during a bulk man... 🤦‍♂️ are you doing this because you think it’ll help you stay leaner and not get too much BF?
 
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