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Donald Trump running for president

Again, cant be bothered fact checking but if this is true that's an issue for me.

I have a tough stance on immigration. A lot of people call this hypocritical because my ancestors immigrated to NZ, but I think it is valid if they bring value to the country.
i think you would have a long list of issues with democrats...next time before you decide to punk out trump you should dig deeper into what the democrats policies/proposals are.

i still get a bad taste in my mouth when i think of obama wanting to put boys in the elementary school girls showers---that is one sick mutha to want that.
 
I do. I need a gun licence for my job and having a safe is a requirement to get one.

I'm happy to have them at home, because it's a useful tool. I'm glad we dont allow people to carry them though.

I’m glad you guys have the criminals abiding by that.
 
many who have lost that privilege obtain guns through illegal means. very few, and i mean very few, gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners.

i would be curious on the numbers...hey @nostrum420 what percentage of gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners?

Yeah, I'll go do some research that you'll ignore unless it agrees with your existing stance.
 
many who have lost that privilege obtain guns through illegal means. very few, and i mean very few, gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners.

i would be curious on the numbers...hey @nostrum420 what percentage of gun crimes are committed by legal gun owners?
Because of that constitutional right, there are far less barriers to obtaining a firearm and far less restrictions of the type of firearm you can own.

I'd be much more open to less weapons restrictions IF the barrier to owning those weapons was higher. Heck, if they scaled the testing depending on the calibre or rate of fire I'd be OK with that. I.e. easier to obtain a licence for a .22 than a semi auto rifle.

The greater the risk, the more stringent the testing. Again, bear in mind it's not a constitutional right to bear arms here so that type of testing would be easy enough to invoke provided it passed govt. Which it wouldnt.

A large proportion do not support the right for people to own semi autos. A lot do, however, support the need to own high powered rifles and things for recreational activities like hunting. I'm OK with that, and so are most people I know.
 
Because of that constitutional right, there are far less barriers to obtaining a firearm and far less restrictions of the type of firearm you can own.

I'd be much more open to less weapons restrictions IF the barrier to owning those weapons was higher. Heck, if they scaled the testing depending on the calibre or rate of fire I'd be OK with that. I.e. easier to obtain a licence for a .22 than a semi auto rifle.

The greater the risk, the more stringent the testing. Again, bear in mind it's not a constitutional right to bear arms here so that type of testing would be easy enough to invoke provided it passed govt. Which it wouldnt.

A large proportion do not support the right for people to own semi autos. A lot do, however, support the need to own high powered rifles and things for recreational activities like hunting. I'm OK with that, and so are most people I know.
you are not paying attention...the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by criminals who have obtained guns illegally.

do you think anyone would plan on committing a crime with a gun legally registered in their name?

c'mon, man-think!!!
 
you are not paying attention...the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by criminals who have obtained guns illegally.

do you think anyone would plan on committing a crime with a gun legally registered in their name?

c'mon, man-think!!!
Yes, the Christchurch mosque shooter legally owned firearms.

The Las Vegas shooter legally bought all his firearms.

People are lawful citizens right up until the moment they aren't. Not everyone is a career criminal. Sometimes they just snap.
 
you are not paying attention...the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by criminals who have obtained guns illegally.

do you think anyone would plan on committing a crime with a gun legally registered in their name?

c'mon, man-think!!!
Also this shows a different story:

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That shows the majority of mass shootings are carried out by legal gun owners. I'm not making a case of anything, just highlighting that any one can kill someone, whether it be a legal gun owner or not. In the case of the Las Vegas shooter, there are some concerns about his behaviour leading up to the shooting itself. Had this been more closely monitored, could of the incident been prevented? Maybe, maybe not.

Mental health issues are a barrier to owning firearms in NZ. You need a GP sign off. It wont catch everyone, but it will potentially restrict access to a few people at higher risk of erratic/ irrational behaviour - especially if their moods are dependent on whether they are taking their medications or not.

But again the constitutional right limits as few people as possible. Because over time there could be a risk that more laws are enacted that further encroach on that right. I get that, which is why i'm emphasizing that it works here because it is not a right.
 
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biogen conference is responsible for 20,000 cases of covid 19 in boston area, researchers say

calling it a 'super spreading' event.
 
Also this shows a different story:

Invalid Link Removed

That shows the majority of mass shootings are carried out by legal gun owners
and what percentage of total shootings does that represent...
 
Yes, the Christchurch mosque shooter legally owned firearms.

The Las Vegas shooter legally bought all his firearms.

People are lawful citizens right up until the moment they aren't. Not everyone is a career criminal. Sometimes they just snap.
there are more gang related shootings in one weekend than both of those shootings combined.

the fbi estimates more than 15,000 gang related homicides occur each year---top that, c.mon man, i dare ya.
 
Also this shows a different story:

Invalid Link Removed

That shows the majority of mass shootings are carried out by legal gun owners. I'm not making a case of anything, just highlighting that any one can kill someone, whether it be a legal gun owner or not. In the case of the Las Vegas shooter, there are some concerns about his behaviour leading up to the shooting itself. Had this been more closely monitored, could of the incident been prevented? Maybe, maybe not.

Mental health issues are a barrier to owning firearms in NZ. You need a GP sign off. It wont catch everyone, but it will potentially restrict access to a few people at higher risk of erratic/ irrational behaviour - especially if their moods are dependent on whether they are taking their medications or not.

But again the constitutional right limits as few people as possible. Because over time there could be a risk that more laws are enacted that further encroach on that right. I get that, which is why i'm emphasizing that it works here because it is not a right.
the fbi estimates there are 15,000 gang related homicides each year---yes thats right 15,000
that was from 2015, i bet that number has increased-!!!!!

15,000

lets play poker, i bet my hand is better than yours-wanna play?
 
you are not paying attention...the vast majority of gun crimes are committed by criminals who have obtained guns illegally.

do you think anyone would plan on committing a crime with a gun legally registered in their name?

c'mon, man-think!!!
well?
 
and what percentage of total shootings does that represent...

I cant be bothered doing the math, but a mass shooting is defined as 4 or more people involved.
and what percentage of total shootings does that represent...

I'm not trying to say legal firearms owners are more dangerous than gang members or illegal firearms owners, only that they are still capable of murdering others. It's not like all legal owners are saints and it's just illegal gun owners who are the issue. You could be a legal gun owner with some serious underlying and undiagnosed mental health issues (or even develop mental health issues like PTSD which should not be underestimated).
 
the fbi estimates there are 15,000 gang related homicides each year---yes thats right 15,000
that was from 2015, i bet that number has increased-!!!!!

15,000

lets play poker, i bet my hand is better than yours-wanna play?

That's a false dichotomy.

The point still stands that 59 people dying and 413 being wounded/ injured at an event by a single, lawful gun owner against tens of thousands of random concert-goers is nothing to balk at. You generally see gang violence restricted to areas that contain gangs and to people involved with gangs. Not all the time, but alot of the time the violence is contained to those populations.

When it comes to mass shootings, it is typically against random members of the public. They might share a single common ground (i.e. go to the same school, or share the same faith, or enjoy the same music), but that's about all that connects them to each other.

So, statistically speaking, are you, a non-gang member, more likely to die from going about your normal life or from a gang member shooting you?

And no, i'm not saying guns are bad or should be banned. But it's the fanatic, the extremist, the broken, the lonely, and the mentally unwell that I think should be restricted from owning weapons.
 
Because of that constitutional right, there are far less barriers to obtaining a firearm and far less restrictions of the type of firearm you can own.

I'd be much more open to less weapons restrictions IF the barrier to owning those weapons was higher. Heck, if they scaled the testing depending on the calibre or rate of fire I'd be OK with that. I.e. easier to obtain a licence for a .22 than a semi auto rifle.

The greater the risk, the more stringent the testing. Again, bear in mind it's not a constitutional right to bear arms here so that type of testing would be easy enough to invoke provided it passed govt. Which it wouldnt.

A large proportion do not support the right for people to own semi autos. A lot do, however, support the need to own high powered rifles and things for recreational activities like hunting. I'm OK with that, and so are most people I know.

Ok...I was actually keeping an open mind until you said “a .22 than a semi auto rifle”. Do you not realize that they make tons of semi auto .22’s? OMG
 
I cant be bothered doing the math, but a mass shooting is defined as 4 or more people involved.


I'm not trying to say legal firearms owners are more dangerous than gang members or illegal firearms owners, only that they are still capable of murdering others. It's not like all legal owners are saints and it's just illegal gun owners who are the issue. You could be a legal gun owner with some serious underlying and undiagnosed mental health issues (or even develop mental health issues like PTSD which should not be underestimated).

You could be a legal gun owner with an undiagnosed mental issue and take your car and drive over a crowd of people. Damn man where’s your logic?
 
Ok...I was actually keeping an open mind until you said “a .22 than a semi auto rifle”. Do you not realize that they make tons of semi auto .22’s? OMG
Ok, I omitted bolt action. Better?
 
You could be a legal gun owner with an undiagnosed mental issue and take your car and drive over a crowd of people. Damn man where’s your logic?
Stupid argument. Same as the "could be a gun owner and go out stabbing everyone".

Of course you could. Last I checked though, I could shoot someone at several hundred meters. What could my car do at a range of 500m? Blind them with my high beams and hope they get so disoriented they walk into traffic?

If you present a stupid argument, you get a stupid answer. Last I checked, vehicular murder was far less likely than being shot.

Maybe that same person could paper cut everyone to death or throw a fridge at them.

The capacity for harm is greater with a firearm. I can't conceal my car in my pants or jacket or lock my car in a hotel room until the point I fling it out a window and crush 59 people. I can't drive my car up to a bank teller and demand cash from them.

Why even take firearms to war? We have jeeps and things we could just run over people with if they are equally as dangerous.
 
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Yes, the Christchurch mosque shooter legally owned firearms.

The Las Vegas shooter legally bought all his firearms.

People are lawful citizens right up until the moment they aren't. Not everyone is a career criminal. Sometimes they just snap.

Vegas shooter more than likely was MK-Ultra.
 
Yes, the Christchurch mosque shooter legally owned firearms.

The Las Vegas shooter legally bought all his firearms.

People are lawful citizens right up until the moment they aren't. Not everyone is a career criminal. Sometimes they just snap.

Vegas shooter more than likely was MK-Ultra.
 
CiaNN completely skipped Rand Paul’s speech as if he was never there. Luckily I also had fox on.
 
Fox cut him out in the middle of it wtf???? Out of all places MSNBC played it out.
 
Stupid argument. Same as the "could be a gun owner and go out stabbing everyone".

Of course you could. Last I checked though, I could shoot someone at several hundred meters. What could my car do at a range of 500m? Blind them with my high beams and hope they get so disoriented they walk into traffic?

If you present a stupid argument, you get a stupid answer. Last I checked, vehicular murder was far less likely than being shot.

Maybe that same person could paper cut everyone to death or throw a fridge at them.

The capacity for harm is greater with a firearm. I can't conceal my car in my pants or jacket or lock my car in a hotel room until the point I fling it out a window and crush 59 people. I can't drive my car up to a bank teller and demand cash from them.

Why even take firearms to war? We have jeeps and things we could just run over people with if they are equally as dangerous.

You’re a fucking ass hat man. Your logic is senseless. You compared a freaking .22 to a semi auto like a semi auto is dangerous. Then you change to a bolt action. You’re not a gun guy at all and I really thought you were smarter than this. If someone is mentally ill as you suggested and they want to hurt someone they will use any weapon...gun, knife, car, truck full of explosives.
 
You’re a fucking ass hat man. Your logic is senseless. You compared a freaking .22 to a semi auto like a semi auto is dangerous. Then you change to a bolt action. You’re not a gun guy at all and I really thought you were smarter than this. If someone is mentally ill as you suggested and they want to hurt someone they will use any weapon...gun, knife, car, truck full of explosives.

Just get a couple of meat cleavers and chop people up at a clogged up TSA line. Couldnt be any simpler.

Or....get a rice cooker and blow people up like they did at the Boston marathon.

We need a culture of self defense minded good people from coast to coast, start at a young age in schools and have firearms class and get rid of this society of complete wussyfication. Wishful thinking doesnt make problems go away.
 
I'm curious, for what purpose.

Psych-ops, political reform.

Look up Operation Northwoods, this is how they operate over here. That one only needed JFKs signature and they would have blow up innocent people in Chicago and various other cities just to justify invasion of Cuba, and thats an officially released unclassified document.
 
When it comes to mass shootings, it is typically against random members of the public. They might share a single common ground (i.e. go to the same school, or share the same faith, or enjoy the same music), but that's about all that connects them to each other.

Is there a reason you left out prescription medicines? Because most do share that single common ground.
 
Let’s all keep it slightly chill here and keep the conversation going!
 
No not at all. There’s .22 bolt actions as well.
That's what I literally just said. Dont tell me I'm an ass hat when you cant read ;)
 
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You’re a fucking ass hat man. Your logic is senseless. You compared a freaking .22 to a semi auto like a semi auto is dangerous. Then you change to a bolt action. You’re not a gun guy at all and I really thought you were smarter than this. If someone is mentally ill as you suggested and they want to hurt someone they will use any weapon...gun, knife, car, truck full of explosives.
In 2019 there were over 400 mass shootings in the US?

How many mass vehicle murders? How many mass knife stabbings?

Your logic is completely broken. In countries where gun use isnt as rampant as the US, they aren't experiencing huge numbers of people driving cars into crowds. Your examples are devoid of any grounding in reality and rely on the "what if" scenario.

If you're going to present the argument, back it up with EVIDENCE. Do stabbings happen? Yes. Do people get run over? Yes.

Do more people die from intentional shootings in the US over any of those other forms? Also yes.

If you are happy for any person to own a gun, then all the more power to you. In NZ though, us banning semi autos hasn't resulted in more people run over in cars. It hasn't resulted in more deaths by stabbings.

But you're right, maybe if the Las Vegas shooter just threw knifes out his window it would have killed more people. Because they're equivalent and all
 
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Just get a couple of meat cleavers and chop people up at a clogged up TSA line. Couldnt be any simpler.

Or....get a rice cooker and blow people up like they did at the Boston marathon.

We need a culture of self defense minded good people from coast to coast, start at a young age in schools and have firearms class and get rid of this society of complete wussyfication. Wishful thinking doesnt make problems go away.
How many pressure cooker bombings have there been since 2013?

Want to take a guess how many people died to guns during the same period?

I'm not even arguing to take away guns, a simple realization that they have a greater capacity for harm is the only point I'm making. But it seems like people even deny that's the case lol
 
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Is there a reason you left out prescription medicines? Because most do share that single common ground.
I'm talking about the victims
 
I'm talking about the victims
Just to be clear, the point was to emphasize that it was completely random. Is it the normal? Of course not. Just like 51 people getting shot in an NZ mosque isnt our normal.

But the reason firearms were chosen over driving vehicles into the crowds was because they both recognized they could do more harm that way.
 
How many pressure cooker bombings have there been since 2013?

Want to take a guess how many people died to guns during the same period?

I'm not even arguing to take away guns, a simple realization that they have a greater capacity for harm is the only point I'm making. But it seems like people even deny that's the case lol

It’s just one of many creative ways of killing a lot of people, but that’s not to say we shouldn’t do reasonable things to keep guns away from bad people.
 
It’s just one of many creative ways of killing a lot of people, but that’s not to say we shouldn’t do reasonable things to keep guns away from bad people.
That's literally the point I was trying to make lol.

Being reasonable could be whatever the people deem appropriate, given their 2a rights. It has been deemed appropriate that felons cannot legally buy firearms, so that's one method already being used.
 
That's a false dichotomy.

The point still stands that 59 people dying and 413 being wounded/ injured at an event by a single, lawful gun owner against tens of thousands of random concert-goers is nothing to balk at. You generally see gang violence restricted to areas that contain gangs and to people involved with gangs. Not all the time, but alot of the time the violence is contained to those populations.

When it comes to mass shootings, it is typically against random members of the public. They might share a single common ground (i.e. go to the same school, or share the same faith, or enjoy the same music), but that's about all that connects them to each other.

So, statistically speaking, are you, a non-gang member, more likely to die from going about your normal life or from a gang member shooting you?

And no, i'm not saying guns are bad or should be banned. But it's the fanatic, the extremist, the broken, the lonely, and the mentally unwell that I think should be restricted from owning weapons.
seriously? you don't follow the news-eh?

almost every day we hear of children being killed as collateral damage from gang shootouts and drive by shootings!!!

maybe non-gang members aren't the target but those fools are notoriously bad shots....children every single goddamned day make headlines by being caught in a hail of bullets from gang members shooting at each other...


if you are playing poker you have a lousy hand....15,000 murders by gang members doesn't mean they are only killing each other...c,mon man use your intelligence-please!!!
 
In 2019 there were over 400 mass shootings in the US?

How many mass vehicle murders? How many mass knife stabbings?

Your logic is completely broken. In countries where gun use isnt as rampant as the US, they aren't experiencing huge numbers of people driving cars into crowds. Your examples are devoid of any grounding in reality and rely on the "what if" scenario.

If you're going to present the argument, back it up with EVIDENCE. Do stabbings happen? Yes. Do people get run over? Yes.

Do more people die from intentional shootings in the US over any of those other forms? Also yes.

If you are happy for any person to own a gun, then all the more power to you. In NZ though, us banning semi autos hasn't resulted in more people run over in cars. It hasn't resulted in more deaths by stabbings.

But you're right, maybe if the Las Vegas shooter just threw knifes out his window it would have killed more people. Because they're equivalent and all

Alot of those "mass shootings" come from gang bangers and are caused do to the war on drugs which should be eliminated. The US Government often provides the gangs that are somewhat under their control arms and drugs.

Somebody in the USA dies every 50 minutes from DWI crashes, thats over 10,000 deaths every year from something that could have been prevented if we banned alcohol or cars, amiright?
 
That's literally the point I was trying to make lol.

Being reasonable could be whatever the people deem appropriate, given their 2a rights. It has been deemed appropriate that felons cannot legally buy firearms, so that's one method already being used.
gang members very rarely if ever used legal guns to commit crimes-and they are responsible for 15,000 killings each year.
 
That's literally the point I was trying to make lol.

Being reasonable could be whatever the people deem appropriate, given their 2a rights. It has been deemed appropriate that felons cannot legally buy firearms, so that's one method already being used.

Ive always proposed utilizing blockchain technology to provide gun shops a layer of protection selling bad people guns without the need of a Federal government database knowing who is buying the guns. Its extremely doable, and we also would want expedited due process in case someway, somehow somebody is wrongfully blocked from getting a gun.
 
The number 1 cause of death is Democide. Disarm the US Government, but fund them well :)
 
you do not have a first amendment right to loot and riot...democrat prosecutors are refusing to prosecute those arrested.
 
gang members very rarely if ever used legal guns to commit crimes-and they are responsible for 15,000 killings each year.

But there are few, if any illegal clandestine gun manufacturers. So, if we did a better job with universal background checks and gun registrations, we could greatly cut down on gang members access to guns. The problem is, this would mean holding people responsible for repeatedly "losing their guns."

#responsiblegunowners
 
But there are few, if any illegal clandestine gun manufacturers. So, if we did a better job with universal background checks and gun registrations, we could greatly cut down on gang members access to guns. The problem is, this would mean holding people responsible for repeatedly "losing their guns."

#responsiblegunowners

It would just increase the blackmarket for international guns. Id bet China would love to send guns to Mexico to get over here.
 
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