Donald Trump running for president

thebigt said:
back in the day you would have been fired.
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That's the problem with corporatism; the people who decide the wage aren't the same people who have to do the hiring, firing and managing. The person who would have fired me knew they were paying a pittance and that's why they got the stoners from the local highschool but if they did fire me they'd have to go through the effort of trying to hire and train the next stoner.
 
nostrum420 said:
That's the problem with corporatism; the people who decide the wage aren't the same people who have to do the hiring, firing and managing. The person who would have fired me knew they were paying a pittance and that's why they got the stoners from the local highschool but if they did fire me they'd have to go through the effort of trying to hire and train the next stoner.
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But if they'd given me a raise I would have at least waited until after work to light up, nomsayin'?
 
nostrum420 said:
That's the problem with corporatism; the people who decide the wage aren't the same people who have to do the hiring, firing and managing. The person who would have fired me knew they were paying a pittance and that's why they got the stoners from the local highschool but if they did fire me they'd have to go through the effort of trying to hire and train the next stoner.
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you obviously have no clue what is was like back in the day-eh?


minimum wage jobs were 99% staffed by high school kids looking for spending money, if you didn't work hard you were easily replaced.

things were much different then, after graduating high school you applied for a job and took a aptitude test, if you scored well the business would teach you a trade 'on the job training' while paying a wage during training, once you successfully completed training you could make a decent earning[well above minimum wage] and had learned a marketable job skill. that is what we need businesss to go back to, imo.
 
nostrum420 said:
I would say that the employer got what they deserved. The employer was continually having problems with things not getting done. Employers don't deserve people who work hard if they're not willing to pay a decent wage.
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Many jobs people are easily replaceable. Better to outline yourself a better future than depend on someone to always be there for you and provide income. One day people beg for a job, next day same people complain their life sucks and they deserve more than what they begged for.
 
nostrum420 said:
But if they'd given me a raise I would have at least waited until after work to light up, nomsayin'?
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I don't think you would have. You made a choice to work somewhere that allowed you to pursue your interests at that time. That was the sacrifice you were willing to make. You may have been able to find a higher paying job, but it probably would have required a drug test and additional rules/supervision. Every individual decides what level of effort they want to put forward and balance the risk/reward ratio or even the hard work/reward ratio. Whether it's smoking weed, wanting to spend more time with family, wanting more time for a hobby, etc, everybody has their reasons for staying in a job vs finding a higher paying one. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those reasons, but I don't want any of my money going to supplement somebody that took an easier route.
 
ax1 said:
Many jobs people are easily replaceable. Better to outline yourself a better future than depend on someone to always be there for you and provide income. One day people beg for a job, next day same people complain their life sucks and they deserve more than what they begged for.
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human nature I guess...many jobs I have worked at the people who bitched the most were the least productive.
 
thebigt said:
human nature I guess...many jobs I have worked at the people who bitched the most were the least productive.
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Everybody is always on their best behavior until they get their foot in the door.
 
thebigt said:
you obviously have no clue what is was like back in the day-eh?


minimum wage jobs were 99% staffed by high school kids looking for spending money, if you didn't work hard you were easily replaced.

things were much different then, after graduating high school you applied for a job and took a aptitude test, if you scored well the business would teach you a trade 'on the job training' while paying a wage during training, once you successfully completed training you could make a decent earning[well above minimum wage] and had learned a marketable job skill. that is what we need businesss to go back to, imo.
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Oh wow, no; that's not how it worked at all "in my day." Min wage jobs were late high school kids looking for some spending money but that labor market was waaaay tighter than what you're thinking of because a lot of parents wanted their kids to just focus on their studies so they could do well on their SATs and get into a good school. We had a trade school but that was considered to be for the dumb kids. I've never had or heard of a job that did much in the way of on the job training. Typically training was a few days or maybe a few weeks of showing you around the place and showing you what to do and then maybe having someone over your shoulder as you did it the first few times. After that, you're typically on your own. Any skills you want to try to learn to get ahead, you do on your own time. There used to be some jobs that would pay for a certain course that you could go to on your own time but even that is a thing of the past. These days, an entry level position wants you to have 5 years experience and a degree but they still want to pay you less than your dad made (adjusted for inflation.)

But poor people are poor because they're lazy fucks, though...
 
I feel as though I need a disclaimer prior to some posts so nobody get's their panties in a bunch.

*** Disclaimer ***

This post is not directed towards anyone in particular as it relates to a few posts at the same time.
So, if you act a big baby about it, I'm taking my keyboard and going to my room. Names and quotes have been redacted in some places to protect the guilty and judge the innocent. Wait, reverse that.

*** End Disclaimer ***

How dos that song go again?
Just because *you* had a 'back-in-the-day' like it was, that doesn't define how the rest of us all had a 'back-in-the-day'.

Shooting that out there to the ether...
But yeah, poor people get f*cked in general, and it has nothing to do with them being so-called 'lazy'.
 
nostrum420 said:
Oh wow, no; that's not how it worked at all "in my day." Min wage jobs were late high school kids looking for some spending money but that labor market was waaaay tighter than what you're thinking of because a lot of parents wanted their kids to just focus on their studies so they could do well on their SATs and get into a good school. We had a trade school but that was considered to be for the dumb kids. I've never had or heard of a job that did much in the way of on the job training. Typically training was a few days or maybe a few weeks of showing you around the place and showing you what to do and then maybe having someone over your shoulder as you did it the first few times. After that, you're typically on your own. Any skills you want to try to learn to get ahead, you do on your own time. There used to be some jobs that would pay for a certain course that you could go to on your own time but even that is a thing of the past. These days, an entry level position wants you to have 5 years experience and a degree but they still want to pay you less than your dad made (adjusted for inflation.)

But poor people are poor because they're lazy fucks, though...
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man, you need to calm down...the point I was making is business needs to go back to that model. the vast majority of jobs can be leaned thru classroom and on the job training. business could teach the skills necessary without requiring kids to run up expensive college bills.

back in the day businesses were responsible for training their own workforce. most of the foremen I had when I worked production started on production floor and worked their way up-no college degree, just experience.
 
thebigt said:
man, you need to calm down...the point I was making is business needs to go back to that model. the vast majority of jobs can be leaned thru classroom and on the job training. business could teach the skills necessary without requiring kids to run up expensive college bills.

back in the day businesses were responsible for training their own workforce. most of the foremen I had when I worked production started on production floor and worked their way up-no college degree, just experience.
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Yeah, I'm cranky AF today. Most of the quarantine time has also been grey cruddy weather here and my brain is starting to break.
 
justhere4comm said:
I feel as though I need a disclaimer prior to some posts so nobody get's their panties in a bunch.

*** Disclaimer ***

This post is not directed towards anyone in particular as it relates to a few posts at the same time.
So, if you act a big baby about it, I'm taking my keyboard and going to my room. Names and quotes have been redacted in some places to protect the guilty and judge the innocent. Wait, reverse that.

*** End Disclaimer ***

How dos that song go again?
Just because *you* had a 'back-in-the-day' like it was, that doesn't define how the rest of us all had a 'back-in-the-day'.

Shooting that out there to the ether...
But yeah, poor people get f*cked in general, and it has nothing to do with them being so-called 'lazy'.
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so, you are saying there are no lessons to be learned from the past?
 
nostrum420 said:
Yeah, I'm cranky AF today. Most of the quarantine time has also been grey cruddy weather here and my brain is starting to break.
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I think the model that EVERYONE needs to attend college is broken. make business responsible for training their own workforce like they did 'back in my day'.

yeah, I could tell you were out of sorts, you don't usually react that way. it's all good-tough times-eh?
 
nostrum420 said:
Yeah, I'm cranky AF today. Most of the quarantine time has also been grey cruddy weather here and my brain is starting to break.
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I hear that.
Just recognized it recently myself and am trying to put up some less serious words now and then to ease the seriousness. We're not solving the worlds problems here. Nobody is going to get hurt if they win/lose some invisible macho chips (pun) in the process of going back and forth.

We get caught up in this because it's also an outlet to what we see out there. It's frustrating.
I promise to you all, I will not take myself so seriously.

Edit: That last part was a lie. :P
 
Aleksandar37 said:
I don't think you would have. You made a choice to work somewhere that allowed you to pursue your interests at that time. That was the sacrifice you were willing to make. You may have been able to find a higher paying job, but it probably would have required a drug test and additional rules/supervision. Every individual decides what level of effort they want to put forward and balance the risk/reward ratio or even the hard work/reward ratio. Whether it's smoking weed, wanting to spend more time with family, wanting more time for a hobby, etc, everybody has their reasons for staying in a job vs finding a higher paying one. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of those reasons, but I don't want any of my money going to supplement somebody that took an easier route.
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Maybe people had fewer options as to what routes to take and a nominal amount of your money could create more options for some but maybe you're just a little stingy?
 
nostrum420 said:
Maybe people had fewer options as to what routes to take and a nominal amount of your money could create more options for some but maybe you're just a little stingy?
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corporate jobs were high wage jobs back in the day, with full medical benefits...then corporate businesses started outsourcing to smaller company's that didn't pay as well and didn't have nearly as good of benefits.

then all of a sudden there was a push that everyone needed a college degree, guess who benefited from this-corporations-they no longer had to pay for classrooms and teaching skills needed for their jobs.

the vast amount of jobs don't need a college degree.
 
nostrum420 said:
But poor people are poor because they're lazy fucks, though...
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When I say that I dont mean all, but how many poor people go home after work drink and smoke, play video games, hang out with friends bs'ing all day, going to bars on weekends, repeat cycle over and over when they should be prioritizing putting themselves in a better position in the future?
 
back in 94 I was working for inland container when they decided to purchase a 6 color laser laminator/printer. this was very high tech for back then. they sent 4 guys to germany to be trained for 4 months by the manufacturer, this was at inland containers expense.
 
thebigt said:
corporate jobs were high wage jobs back in the day, with full medical benefits...then corporate businesses started outsourcing to smaller company's that didn't pay as well and didn't have nearly as good of benefits.

then all of a sudden there was a push that everyone needed a college degree, guess who benefited from this-corporations-they no longer had to pay for classrooms and teaching skills needed for their jobs.

the vast amount of jobs don't need a college degree.
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It just kills me to think of how much of my life I wasted "putting my nose to the grindstone" just to tread water. I was poor AF, and working my butt off and the only employer who has ever come close to paying me what I'm worth is me.
 
ax1 said:
When I say that I dont mean all, but how many poor people go home after work drink and smoke, play video games, hang out with friends bs'ing all day, going to bars on weekends, repeat cycle over and over when they should be prioritizing putting themselves in a better position in the future?
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I think if there were more numerous, viable paths out of poverty people wouldn't spend so much time on escapism. If you think you're never gonna get anywhere, you're going to grab whatever little joy you can wherever you can, as often as you can.
 
nostrum420 said:
It just kills me to think of how much of my life I wasted "putting my nose to the grindstone" just to tread water. I was poor AF, and working my butt off and the only employer who has ever come close to paying me what I'm worth is me.
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of course I feel the same, but neither of us can pay employees the kind of wages and benefits a corporation can?

face it, small business is great for owners, most of the time they suck for employees.
 
thebigt said:
back in 94 I was working for inland container when they decided to purchase a 6 color laser laminator/printer. this was very high tech for back then. they sent 4 guys to germany to be trained for 4 months by the manufacturer, this was at inland containers expense.
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When I started at GNC they gave me some materials that had printed up by the supp companies to take home and read on my own time and/or between customers.
 
thebigt said:
of course I feel the same, but neither of us can pay employees the kind of wages and benefits a corporation can?

face it, small business is great for owners, most of the time they suck for employees.
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Whenever I've hired a temp, I've paid them $15/hr. Unfortunately, I can't provide steady work or full time hours but I've always paid a living wage.
 
nostrum420 said:
When I started at GNC they gave me some materials that had printed up by the supp companies to take home and read on my own time and/or between customers.
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lol, now you are being sarcastic and not taking what I am saying seriously.
 
nostrum420 said:
I've never even been able to offer full time hours, let alone benefits.
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exactly!!!

only those at the top do well in small business...corporations get a bad rap, but most pay well and offer decent benefits...not talking Walmart target but production companies.

I was in the box business for almost 30 years and could never afford to pay employees close to what I was making, let alone blue cross/blue shield insurance with no deductible and very little copay...

when I was laid off when they closed the indianapolis international paper plant in 2008 my family plan insurance was $50 a week. they offered me my same plan under cobra for$600 a week.
 
nostrum420 said:
I think if there were more numerous, viable paths out of poverty people wouldn't spend so much time on escapism. If you think you're never gonna get anywhere, you're going to grab whatever little joy you can wherever you can, as often as you can.
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Its not escapism, its called being a lazy snowflake.

Been there, done that.

Either people take the first step to help themselves or they will always keep themselves in the bottom. Now, if thats what they want thats their choice, but its not fair at the forced expense of others.
 
nostrum420 said:
It just kills me to think of how much of my life I wasted "putting my nose to the grindstone" just to tread water. I was poor AF, and working my butt off and the only employer who has ever come close to paying me what I'm worth is me.
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It good and builds character. In the end it depends on what you do with your experiences to help you move forward.
 
thebigt said:
you made a commission on sales?
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Well... You had to sell a certain amount of store brand and that for you no commission it just affected your review and you were supposed to prioritize that over over selling the third party stuff that you could make a commission on. Also, you really needed to track your own sales of commission items because they were notorious for shorting you and they changed which items did or did not have commissions on them all the time... #capitalism
 
thebigt said:
exactly!!!

only those at the top do well in small business...corporations get a bad rap, but most pay well and offer decent benefits...not talking Walmart target but production companies.

I was in the box business for almost 30 years and could never afford to pay employees close to what I was making, let alone blue cross/blue shield insurance with no deductible and very little copay...

when I was laid off when they closed the indianapolis international paper plant in 2008 my family plan insurance was $50 a week. they offered me my same plan under cobra for$600 a week.
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Those production jobs just don't exist anymore.
 
nostrum420 said:
Whenever I've hired a temp, I've paid them $15/hr. Unfortunately, I can't provide steady work or full time hours but I've always paid a living wage.
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Its not a living wage if your not supplying actual living wage. You can say you pay them $100 an hour and let them work 2 hours a week, but you cant claim that its a living wage.

That being said, I think your intent is well and you pay good for part time work.
 
nostrum420 said:
Also, you really needed to track your own sales of commission items because they were notorious for shorting you and they changed which items did or did not have commissions on them all the time... #capitalism
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This is an example of being ripped off by a company, it has absolutely nothing to do with capatalism...same thing can happen in a pure socialist society, people get greedy and try to rip off people where they can.

Its just a crime that all.
 
ax1 said:
Its not escapism, its called being a lazy snowflake.

Been there, done that.

Either people take the first step to help themselves or they will always keep themselves in the bottom. Now, if thats what they want thats their choice, but its not fair at the forced expense of others.
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I disagree. I know if I'd been given a decent opportunity I'd have done more with it and there's empirical data to show that that's generally the case. You have to spend money to make money and likewise if you want more out of your workforce, you have to invest in them.
 
ax1 said:
It good and builds character. In the end it depends on what you do with your experiences to help you move forward.
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Builds character LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


More like builds an appreciation for why we used enforce antitrust laws.
 
ax1 said:
This is an example of being ripped off by a company, it has absolutely nothing to do with capatalism...same thing can happen in a pure socialist society, people get greedy and try to rip off people where they can.

Its just a crime that all.
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I think doing whatever it takes to bolster the bottom line even if that means screwing over your workforce is a direct effect of capitalism. That money has to go back to the capital owners to repay their valuable investment. Think of the dividends, won't somebody please think of the dividends?!
 
nostrum420 said:
I disagree. I know if I'd been given a decent opportunity I'd have done more with it and there's empirical data to show that that's generally the case. You have to spend money to make money and likewise if you want more out of your workforce, you have to invest in them.
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I think we all feel like that when we are in that position. Especially pizzed you off when you see people being elevated who are nothing but brown nosers and then when they get there they work even worse.
 
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