Tomhawk Is Eating His Cake And Having It Too (CBL)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaycuda View Post
    In for this, a little late but I'm here. I'm also working towards a 3x BW deadlift, which I'm hoping to do sometime in May.
    Not late at all to be honest. Just a bunch of talking right now. Not to the good part to be honest. Still got a few more days of this ultra low carb phase. Nice, it is something crazy to deadlift 3 times your body weight. A friend of mine wants me to do a powerlifting meet in October. To me that is too far away to be thinking about that now. I have a long journey ahead of me.

    Depending on how I feel I may try and deadlift 550 on Tuesday. There is a good chance I will be feeling like crap. It will be day 10 of ULTRA low carbs. Would be pretty cool to pull 550 plus while all depleted. SHOULD be fairly light after this preparation phase. The amount of weight I lose during this helps me determine how many carbs I should start with during my CBLs. Then I can adjust it from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    Not late at all to be honest. Just a bunch of talking right now. Not to the good part to be honest. Still got a few more days of this ultra low carb phase. Nice, it is something crazy to deadlift 3 times your body weight. A friend of mine wants me to do a powerlifting meet in October. To me that is too far away to be thinking about that now. I have a long journey ahead of me.

    Depending on how I feel I may try and deadlift 550 on Tuesday. There is a good chance I will be feeling like crap. It will be day 10 of ULTRA low carbs. Would be pretty cool to pull 550 plus while all depleted. SHOULD be fairly light after this preparation phase. The amount of weight I lose during this helps me determine how many carbs I should start with during my CBLs. Then I can adjust it from there.
    Yeah, I used to cut carbs almost completely for 5 days for High school wrestling. Good way to drop 12 pounds but I hated life for those 5 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaycuda View Post
    Yeah, I used to cut carbs almost completely for 5 days for High school wrestling. Good way to drop 12 pounds but I hated life for those 5 days.
    Well I am still getting in salads and some other greens. They are just in short supply. I wrestled in high school, but was close to my weight class. Plus the practices were enough to drop the little extra weight.

    I am doing 10 days, but honestly dont expect to loose all that much weight. I havent checked the same scale again, but I have used another one and it isnt indicating much change. Carbs are going to be so heavenly haha. To be honest I dont know how I am still up right now.
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    Ok just read the last 3 pages. Good stuff can you shine a little more light on this diet. I have read a couple small articles on carb back loading but nothing with specifics. Can you recommend a resource to get the information from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Ok just read the last 3 pages. Good stuff can you shine a little more light on this diet. I have read a couple small articles on carb back loading but nothing with specifics. Can you recommend a resource to get the information from?
    Honestly the best source of info for his diet is Kiefer's book. You can get the gist of it all on his website, but the book brings it all together. The basics of it are simple, but the details and personalization make it complex. It isnt advertised as a cookie cutter diet. I think someone like you who is very in tune with your body would thrive on this diet.

    Also I am always open to trying to answer questions. Forces me to dive back into the book and think more.

    Oh and good to see you in here Kleen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    Honestly the best source of info for his diet is Kiefer's book. You can get the gist of it all on his website, but the book brings it all together. The basics of it are simple, but the details and personalization make it complex. It isnt advertised as a cookie cutter diet. I think someone like you who is very in tune with your body would thrive on this diet.

    Also I am always open to trying to answer questions. Forces me to dive back into the book and think more.

    Oh and good to see you in here Kleen.
    Nice, thanks for the info. I will have to check into the book, like I said carb back loading has my interest so I will definitely look into this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Nice, thanks for the info. I will have to check into the book, like I said carb back loading has my interest so I will definitely look into this.
    Also there is Carb Nite Solution. Which his old book and much cheaper. It has older info in it. It could be some help too. CNS is more for average people I guess you could say, but it can also be used to get shredded. CBL seems to be more if you want to be a MONSTER(:sgrin).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88

    Also there is Carb Nite Solution. Which his old book and much cheaper. It has older info in it. It could be some help too. CNS is more for average people I guess you could say, but it can also be used to get shredded. CBL seems to be more if you want to be a MONSTER(:sgrin).
    Definitely going to look into this. I am a big fan of lean gains and it works wonders for me, but I'm always down to try new protocols.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    is it similar to the anabolic diet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    Definitely going to look into this. I am a big fan of lean gains and it works wonders for me, but I'm always down to try new protocols.
    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    is it similar to the anabolic diet?
    It is like both of these but optimized. In fact he has a 2 part article on his blog about Intermittent Fasting. Think Lean Gains without as long of fasts with foods to enjoy and foods to avoid. Plus light eating throughout the day.

    Similar to anabolic diet where you light eat throughout the day and it is low carb. But instead of carb refeed days of the week they are basically daily.
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    Was about to eat and post up my workout. Sister called and needs some help with her car.

    It was the 1st time I ran through this particular workout so getting the weight right was basically guessing. I will give a little teaser and tell you I checked my weight after my workout. I started this last Sunday(4/15) at 233. In the book it estimates 60% of this 10 day weight loss is water and the rest is fat.
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    Alright had to change my sister's tire.

    Today was shoulders and triceps

    0 Chest stretch warm up 2 sets of 30 seconds

    0 DB side laterals warm up 2 sets 10 reps
    15s

    1 Seated military press ELECT 5 sets of 3 reps
    95,105,115,125,135

    1 Cable upright rows ELECT 5 sets of 3 reps
    5 to 14 going up 1 each time. Obiviously we underestimated ourselves haha. Next time will start at like 6 and do jumps of 2 instead of 1.

    2 DB side laterals normal 2 sets 8 reps
    40*8,8

    Floor press ELECT 5 sets of 3 reps
    135 to 215 going up by 10 pounds each set. Probably just make bigger jumps next time

    Dips normal 2 sets 10 reps
    10*10, 20*10 I know pretty weak, but I didnt want to rush into too quickly. Havent been doing dips at all. I tend to get better at them pretty quick.

    Standing DB curls normal 2 sets of 10 reps
    40*10,9

    Any questions about the work speak up. To be honest the numbers dont seem to be down. So I dont think I am losing muscle. Felt like my muscles and verins were showing more than usual. Just a few more days and the carb frenzy will begin.

    After my workout I checked my weight. It was 233 at the start, but this was in the afternoon. Wasnt super fed but drink was present. Today after my workout I was 228.8. That is a difference of 4.2 pounds. With that kind of weight loss the suggested carb back load is 386 grams of carbs. I sure hope I lose some more weight haha.

    Alright after that there surely has to be some questions haha.

    Also despite this diet my libido seems to be up.
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    What is the formula to figure out how much of a backload you need is it 1.5 times your body weight or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    What is the formula to figure out how much of a backload you need is it 1.5 times your body weight or something.
    There are to ways to figure it out. The 10 day prep phase which I am doing now. The other is simply bodyweight. The body weight one doesnt seem nearly as effective. The prep phase is more based on how you respond to carbs and obviously we all respond differently. For your body weight of 208(I rounded down) your suggested carb back load would be 728.

    For my current prep phase weight loss(4.25) my carb back load would be estimated at 386 grams of carbs. With each 0.25 pounds lost it is about 23 grams of carbs. If I just went by bodyweight it would be 798 grams of carbs for my carb back load haha. That is a big difference if you ask me. But this is just a starting point. Ultimately you will change your carb back load by how you feel and look.

    The carb back loads are no joke as you can see.
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    Yeah looks pretty intense. I was about to try to hop on this with you to see if I could run along side you but I think I am going to watch you and see how things go. Especially since this is geared toward people who lift later in the day. if it works like I expect it too I may very well give it a shot later. I understand there are those who mix the Lean Gains approach with this one. I am kind of curious how well that works with it.

    Lots of similarities like the suggestion to have aminos and peptides post workout if you workout in the morning. If nothing else though I may adopt adding 1 scoop of casein to my post workout aminos which would basically get me all the way up to my fast breaker as far as protein still being digested. I may also keep my carbs lower all day then higher at the end. Just not as severe as what you mentioned in your PM.
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    yeah I wanna run it to. but seems confusing. I gotta get the book first and do some homework
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah looks pretty intense. I was about to try to hop on this with you to see if I could run along side you but I think I am going to watch you and see how things go. Especially since this is geared toward people who lift later in the day. if it works like I expect it too I may very well give it a shot later. I understand there are those who mix the Lean Gains approach with this one. I am kind of curious how well that works with it.

    Lots of similarities like the suggestion to have aminos and peptides post workout if you workout in the morning. If nothing else though I may adopt adding 1 scoop of casein to my post workout aminos which would basically get me all the way up to my fast breaker as far as protein still being digested. I may also keep my carbs lower all day then higher at the end. Just not as severe as what you mentioned in your PM.
    Ya I like how we are having a double conversation(time to delete some PMs haha)

    It can be done with a lot less complexity. I watched a puffy 280 bodybuilder transform into a SHREDDED 230. Obviously he was doing some gear, but he hadnt looked that peeled and full before even while on gear. He didnt have the book and was just moderately following the principles of CBL.

    They book helps a lot when it comes to people who dont have the ideal situation. Lots of ways to accomplish the goals which he goes into for the most part. At the end of the day it is still just a 240 page book. The forum has people willing to help.

    Ya switching from Lean Gains to this would be easy. He has articles about Intermmittent Fasting on his blog. The gist of them is CBL is more muscle sparing.

    Probably be a good idea to do that. I am always willing to try and make suggestions so dont be afraid to ask.
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    Realistically though I don't know that it would be more muscle sparing than LG considering that MOST people on LG who workout away from there fast breakers use Aminos to get the insulin spike and protein synthesis going immediately post workout and then add in 10 grams every two hours or so. His synopsis of Intermittent Fasting is really not exactly what lean gains is. He speaks of ADF and longer fasts as well as things like the Warrior, not a full on window of 16/8.

    However on the same note with carbs being the controlling factor in the response then me doing as I mentioned and adding in some casein with my aminos post workout would cover that portion of the morning erasing the period he says muscle is not being grown. I mean both of them agree that muscle catabolism / wasting does not happen for 36-48 hours of extremely low calories so there should be no wasting. As I mentioned earlier I had already started doing a mini carb back load instinctively on my Burn Days by keeping carbs nice and low then having 50-100 grams of carbs with my last meal, not a ton but enough to make a difference in the following mornings workout. So I am going to see if this little concoction will work nicely for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Realistically though I don't know that it would be more muscle sparing than LG considering that MOST people on LG who workout away from there fast breakers use Aminos to get the insulin spike and protein synthesis going immediately post workout and then add in 10 grams every two hours or so. His synopsis of Intermittent Fasting is really not exactly what lean gains is. He speaks of ADF and longer fasts as well as things like the Warrior, not a full on window of 16/8.

    However on the same note with carbs being the controlling factor in the response then me doing as I mentioned and adding in some casein with my aminos post workout would cover that portion of the morning erasing the period he says muscle is not being grown. I mean both of them agree that muscle catabolism / wasting does not happen for 36-48 hours of extremely low calories so there should be no wasting. As I mentioned earlier I had already started doing a mini carb back load instinctively on my Burn Days by keeping carbs nice and low then having 50-100 grams of carbs with my last meal, not a ton but enough to make a difference in the following mornings workout. So I am going to see if this little concoction will work nicely for me.
    There are some similarities, but there are some key differences. Someone could follow Lean Gains, do some tweaking, and be almost doing CBL. That is why I tried to make sure I used the term intermmittent fasting and not Lean Gains in my earlier posts. He does advocate a 12 hour fast, but not much more than that.

    Basically I would say his opinion is that Carb Back Load is a more effective way of doing IF. But that is pretty much a given. I didnt quite get the results I wanted with Lean Gains, but it has helped me. The low carb portion of my day is a breeze. I just ate probably about 7-8oz of lean ground beef(97% lean) topped with a slice of full fat cheese plus 2 stalks of celery, and I honestly feel quite full.

    A big difference is less concern about calorie intake. That doesnt mean you can go a thousand calories over/under though. More weight is put into how one feels. His diet and routine both require one to be in tune with their body.
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    I'm in this Mutha
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    So then he doesn't tell you to do the whole calories in / calories out thing? That is kind of cool. I will definitely keep watching and if it seems to be working better than I will give it a shot too. Just not sure about having the junk in the house with the people who are not on the diet. We keep them eating reasonable by not having that stuff in the house for them, when we do they go NUTS!

    I guess it wouldn't be too hard to do with keeping carbs extremely low with the meat patty or something. So you mentioned that you should eat less protein than we are used to on this. How much or little? Does he have specific recommendations say for you, or me how much protein would we be aiming to take in?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    So then he doesn't tell you to do the whole calories in / calories out thing? That is kind of cool. I will definitely keep watching and if it seems to be working better than I will give it a shot too. Just not sure about having the junk in the house with the people who are not on the diet. We keep them eating reasonable by not having that stuff in the house for them, when we do they go NUTS!

    I guess it wouldn't be too hard to do with keeping carbs extremely low with the meat patty or something. So you mentioned that you should eat less protein than we are used to on this. How much or little? Does he have specific recommendations say for you, or me how much protein would we be aiming to take in?
    Everything is more like a guideline not set in stone. If you feel like you need more or less that day then do it. Well like I said in the other PM it doesnt have to be the "bad" stuff just want to cause the insulin spike. The "bad" stuff is brought up because it is unique to most "diets" and it works great for the goal of insulin spiking.

    The protein and fat are more based on your target weight(mine is 210). For the first half of my day protein would be 90-160 grams. Fat absolute minimum would be 39 grams. Pretty much seems like if anything you want more fat than protein according to the forum. For the Carb Back Load portion of my day my protein is 57 to 102 grams of protein. Again these are just guidelines.

    Alright I got some food to show off.


    Some chicken and cabbage plus I had some kimchi with it.

    Before I ate I was a little cranky haha. I feel much better now. Should be good to go come lifting time.
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    That looks amazing! I hate traveling, I'm starving. Lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveToLift
    That looks amazing! I hate traveling, I'm starving. Lol
    It is fairly simple to make. Plus like I said the kimchi was fresh. So damn good together. I can't wait to have it with jasmine rice.
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    Does look good, I am getting ready to carb up for the night. Just finished a bagel and about to make some spaghetti and tear it up like I am angry at it. My insulin sensitivity is pretty high from lean gains for so long so not gonna bother with having a 2 week carb free period since not doing it exactly. I will say that keeping carbs low all day today felt like a punishment. Seems fasting was easier than just eating protein and fat.

    I basically almost matched your numbers for the first half of the day about 40g fat and 110g protein
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88

    It is fairly simple to make. Plus like I said the kimchi was fresh. So damn good together. I can't wait to have it with jasmine rice.
    jasmine rice is amazing!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Does look good, I am getting ready to carb up for the night. Just finished a bagel and about to make some spaghetti and tear it up like I am angry at it. My insulin sensitivity is pretty high from lean gains for so long so not gonna bother with having a 2 week carb free period since not doing it exactly. I will say that keeping carbs low all day today felt like a punishment. Seems fasting was easier than just eating protein and fat.

    I basically almost matched your numbers for the first half of the day about 40g fat and 110g protein
    Ya the 10 day prep phase isnt necessary. It just gives a better idea of carb back loads. Plus it is good for fatties like me haha.

    The 40 grams of fat is the MINIMUM. I probably had more like double that if not a little more. The olive oil was used freely while cooking the chicken and cabbage.

    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    jasmine rice is amazing!
    Haha glad to see you know about the good stuff. Jasmine rice is PERFECT for carb back loading. Brown rice is NOT good for it.

    I had a DAMN good back workout. Plan on finishing off the chicken and cabbage with some kimchi then posting it up.
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    My favorite workout of the week!

    0 Lat pull downs warm up 3 sets of 10 reps

    0 Deadlift warm up 2 sets of 8 reps
    135 for both

    1 Deadlift ELECT 3 reps
    225,275,315,365,405

    1 BB rows ELECT 3 reps
    95,115,135,155,185,205,225

    X Deadlift 1 set 1 rep
    Will get back to you on this one

    2 Close grip pulldowns normal 3 sets
    210*8,10, 230*8

    1 BB shrugs ELECT 3 reps
    135,185,225,275

    1 High wide pulley rows ELECT 3 reps
    This turned into a SUPER ego contest haha. Mario wouldnt back down haha. Started off SUPER light, and ended with the whole stack haha. We had a little audience going, and I am pretty sure they were entertained.

    2 Bent over DB side laterals normal 3 sets
    25*10,10, 30*13

    U DB bench press normal 2 sets
    95*13,12

    Alright now for the fun part DEADLIFTS! Last week I did 515 for 4 with some suspect form. That is an estimated max of 577.


    Not too shabby if you ask me. Felt easier than I expected. I would guess I could get around 600. Which is probably about the most I have done while not on cycle. I honestly just dont focus on my deadlift too much while off cycle. It is my best gauge of raw power so it fits into a cycle naturally haha.

    Finished the rest of my chicken and cabbage with some kimchi. I have to make that meal again soon.
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    Git r done man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptHowdy5150 View Post
    Git r done man.
    Haha I sure am trying.

    Obviously not proof, but I would guess I am not getting weaker haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    Haha I sure am trying.

    Obviously not proof, but I would guess I am not getting weaker haha.
    And that's never a bad thing.
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    dude nice weight!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptHowdy5150 View Post
    And that's never a bad thing.
    Oh ya especially when I plan on getting STRONGER! I would guess my morning weight is about 227(we will see tomorrow). 585/227=2.58 times my bodyweight. A step in the right direction. As a bonus I will put up Mario's numbers. 455(easy enough)/200(guess)= 2.28.

    Quote Originally Posted by madds87 View Post
    dude nice weight!!!
    Thanks man, it felt damn good to have to use 6 plates again. I cant lie it is awesome being a weight thief haha. Got quite a few looks today. The ELECT deadlifts were DAMN noisy haha. Basically 3 bouncing reps with a twist. The pumps were crazy, and this is day 10 of being depleted of carbs. It is ALMOST time to start using carbs as a drug. I can only imagine how this would be on cycle. Oh and I was amped up today. Nice and loud I bet people LOVE having me around haha.
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    Alright went ahead and checked my weight. Checked it without taking in any water or even coffee. Plus dropped a deuce right before I stepped on the scale. It read 225.4 pounds. I figure the day I first checked it I was holding about a pound from food and drink. So lets go 232 instead of 233. So 232-225.4= 6.6 round to 6.5 pounds. The guideline suggest 591 for my carb back load haha. Tomorrow it goes down! It will be chest and bicep day so I will be earning it.

    Today I just did core so I figure I didnt do enough to warrant the big carb back load. I figure the first one should be a monster and adjust by how I feel from there. The food will be plentiful. Have a pizza that I will be making, and should be getting some kind of dessert tomorrow. Hopefully this weekend presents some opportunities to carb up.

    Thinking about doing the core workout again on Saturday along with some arms. Because I tend to have decent meals on Saturdays. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday are a given as far as Carb Back Loads. Wednesday might have a mini back load.
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    HELLO T

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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    HELLO T

    subb'd in this mo'fo
    Welcome and glad you could join.

    In case this got lost in all the typing. Tomorrow my carb back load will be 590 grams of carbs.
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    Holy Crap 500+ grams of carbs in 2 meals sounds rough!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73
    Holy Crap 500+ grams of carbs in 2 meals sounds rough!
    Haha I thought that might get a little attention.

    I will spread them out a little. Steady supply of high glycemic carbs to keep a the insulin spike u. Plus using leucine and creatine. Later I will be adding hydro whey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73
    Holy Crap 500+ grams of carbs in 2 meals sounds rough!
    I have enough trouble getting 250g down in a day can't even begin to imagine doubling that...damn bro.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/252210-greens-climb-top.html#post4548443
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurningGreen View Post
    I have enough trouble getting 250g down in a day can't even begin to imagine doubling that...damn bro.
    It will be a fun challenge that is for sure.

    I think it is the reason for the "dirty" foods. Makes it so much easier to get in high glycemic carbs that cause the insulin spike NEEDED. Imagine how much potatoes, grapes, bananas, and what not it would take to get that kind of response. And remember I took a full pound off how much I lost. So it would have been 92 more grams of carbs.

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    A little something I had earlier. Also had a can of tuna(55g of protein) The red stuff is kimchi. Need to get more of it. Got a jar of it yesterday, and there is about a quarter left haha.
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