For Optimal Fat Loss - HITT vs Low Intensity Cardio

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Highlanda01602 View Post
    Definintly not something I'd recommend to someone looking for fat loss, nevermind the fact that he just came out of surgury.
    You're right about this. I'm sorry. He will have to carefully gradually increase his work capacity to get back into something like I mentioned.

    If you can't handle a simple workout like that, again, you need to increase your work tolerance so you're no longer a geek that overtrains by walking up the stairs to the gym. Start out twice a week if needed, but the point is you gradually increase the work you do for better results.

    Again, where are the BIG lean bodybuilders that use crossfit to get lean? I only ever see skinny lean guys doing this.

    Going to failure on squats or deadlift is far safer than with cleans or snatches. With cleans and snatches there is a high degree of coordination needed to complete the lift--it's a technical lift. This falls apart with high reps and near failure. With squats I don't mean going to failure to the point where your hips are coming up first out of the hole. I mean to failure with good form. If you're going to failure by letting your back round a lot on deads or GM'ing up your squat, then you're just being stupid.

    *EDIT - by the way, you mention Navy Seal style training. Now I've done this before and I'm assuming you have as well, so you know well that you can't just jump in and do the advanced Seal training from the beginning. You have to increase your work capacity and fitness before you can handle the harder workouts. Same thing with the full body "circuits" I mentioned.


  2. the other problem/question I see is rest time between sets with that. Generally if i'm doing that sort of grouping (the
    1a - Deadlift 5-12 reps
    1b - Hammer press 5-12 reps
    1c - ATG Back squat 5-12 reps
    1d - Weighted pullups 5-12 reps
    )

    I'm either having to work with relatively low weights, so not getting intensity, or having to take long rests between full rotations. Granted yes doing heavy deadlifts does spike heart rate, but since its anaerobic it also collapses right after.

    I have done Poliquin's GBC before and it is sort of simiar, but its with lighter weights on purpose. then again, I guess with a 5-12 range, theres a pretty wide range of weights I could possibly use
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the other problem/question I see is rest time between sets with that. Generally if i'm doing that sort of grouping (the
    1a - Deadlift 5-12 reps
    1b - Hammer press 5-12 reps
    1c - ATG Back squat 5-12 reps
    1d - Weighted pullups 5-12 reps
    )

    I'm either having to work with relatively low weights, so not getting intensity, or having to take long rests between full rotations. Granted yes doing heavy deadlifts does spike heart rate, but since its anaerobic it also collapses right after.

    I have done Poliquin's GBC before and it is sort of simiar, but its with lighter weights on purpose. then again, I guess with a 5-12 range, theres a pretty wide range of weights I could possibly use

    Try this one out -
    Deadlift x 21, Pushups x 21, Thrusters x 21, Pushups x 21
    Try doing that for three rounds, with a running clock. Total workout might take somewhere between 6-20 minutes, depending on level, and it absolutely kicks asses. I just made this workout up, but it's something you'd see in a crossfit program. Unlike anaerobic lifting, crossfit branches into aerobic as well (which is actually the entire meaning of crossfit). Depending on how hard you drive yourself through the workout, it can be one of the toughest anaerobic AND aerobic challenges (that I've ever faced).
    I typically use these types of workouts in my normal routines, but just because they address my physical ability goals (not for fat loss). But from experience, they make you pour sweat harder than I ever have with weights. I'd be all for recommending these types of workouts to an individual trying to cut out some fat... coupled with additional cardio on off days, I think it would be absolutely the quickest way to drop bodyfat... and gain some awesome real-world performance and endurance. Check out these two sites, some of my favorites:
    Welcome to CrossFit: Forging Elite Fitness
    CrossFit Workout of the Day | NavySEALs.com - Experience the SEAL Edge
    There's a new "Workout of the Day" for each day, with a 3 on/1 off protocol. Rarely will you see the same workout twice, as it keeps introducing new challenging concepts to the body. I used to be into powerlifting in my earlier years, but ever since I changed my goals, this new type of lifting has taken over me completely - I love it. Check it out, you won't be dissapointed! Lots of research behind it, and many people to back it... definitly a cool program.

  4. Yeah, appreciate the feedback, but will definitely be easing back into it slowly...been nearly about 2 months out of the gym.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    You're right about this. I'm sorry. He will have to carefully gradually increase his work capacity to get back into something like I mentioned.

    If you can't handle a simple workout like that, again, you need to increase your work tolerance so you're no longer a geek that overtrains by walking up the stairs to the gym. Start out twice a week if needed, but the point is you gradually increase the work you do for better results.

    Again, where are the BIG lean bodybuilders that use crossfit to get lean? I only ever see skinny lean guys doing this.

    Going to failure on squats or deadlift is far safer than with cleans or snatches. With cleans and snatches there is a high degree of coordination needed to complete the lift--it's a technical lift. This falls apart with high reps and near failure. With squats I don't mean going to failure to the point where your hips are coming up first out of the hole. I mean to failure with good form. If you're going to failure by letting your back round a lot on deads or GM'ing up your squat, then you're just being stupid.

    *EDIT - by the way, you mention Navy Seal style training. Now I've done this before and I'm assuming you have as well, so you know well that you can't just jump in and do the advanced Seal training from the beginning. You have to increase your work capacity and fitness before you can handle the harder workouts. Same thing with the full body "circuits" I mentioned.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by fatburner2007 View Post
    Yeah, appreciate the feedback, but will definitely be easing back into it slowly...been nearly about 2 months out of the gym.
    All the more reason to start off with some good ol' body weight exercises, something I think is too often neglected in normal routines. BW exercises will help you get back your base via the most natural "lifting" possible, IMO of course. I noticed that you have time to workout at 5pm, unless it's a weekend. With BW exercises, you could do them before work at your place, and then take on some more actual weight training/cardio if the day is right at 5pm.
    Pushups, Body Squats, situps, flutter kicks, burpees... love em. Then to intertwine some aerobics into it, throw in some HIIT methods (aka Tabata). 20 seconds of air squats, 10 seconds rest, 20 seconds air squats, 10 seconds rest. 5 sets of those is intensity in some of it's finest form! Simply stringing BW exercises together, even in simplist manner, will kick some serious ass, both anerobically and aerobically Highly underrated IMO.

    Here's another sudo-form of the "crossfit" training style, built by one amazing man - Ross Enamit. If you've ever heard of him, you'd know how great this guy is. Check it out - Lots of free articles addressing training topics... definitely solid reading material. I own one of his books, "Never Gymless", which brings in conventional training styles into effective circuit training. His other big-time book, "Infinite Intensity", would be a better pickup (Never Gymless was good, but pretty simple concepts IMO) Another great high-intensity program that will shed you of any excess fat, and will truely earn you some high performance abilities.
    RossTraining - Bridging The Gap Between Ordinary and Extraordinary
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    the other problem/question I see is rest time between sets with that. Generally if i'm doing that sort of grouping (the
    1a - Deadlift 5-12 reps
    1b - Hammer press 5-12 reps
    1c - ATG Back squat 5-12 reps
    1d - Weighted pullups 5-12 reps
    )

    I'm either having to work with relatively low weights, so not getting intensity, or having to take long rests between full rotations. Granted yes doing heavy deadlifts does spike heart rate, but since its anaerobic it also collapses right after.

    I have done Poliquin's GBC before and it is sort of simiar, but its with lighter weights on purpose. then again, I guess with a 5-12 range, theres a pretty wide range of weights I could possibly use

    The variation in rep range is to take into account individual differences. This is key. You should do rep ranges that you gain muscle in when cutting. If a fast twitch guy does sets of 12 or higher with very short rest while cutting, he's going to lose a lot of strength and muscle. On the flip side, if a slower twitch guy does sets of 5 with longer rest, he's going to lose muscle.

    That's one issue I've seen talking with bodybuilders and lifting for cutting. Often they've tried the circuit training method with high reps and no rest, and it usually just helped them lose muscle. Why? Because a lot of these guys are moderate to fast twitch and they're doing workouts with 20 reps per set and no rest. They're not stimulating their main muscle mass, so why is the body going to keep it while cutting?

    If I built my body doing sets of 6-8, for example, that means I stimulated the muscles in a particular way which forced them to adapt to the stimulus by hypertrophy.

    When you start to cut, what does the body like to do? Become more efficient. We have thrifty genes, and the body is likely to eliminate metabolically demanding muscle tissue to help become more efficient if it determines that extra muscle tissue isn't needed for survival and caloric intake is low.

    So you built a body with 6-8 reps, you've gained a lot of muscle, now you feel it's time to cut. So then you go and do sets of 20 with no rest? How are you stimulating all the new muscle you've built by convincing your body that it's needed for survival? You're not. And when the body feels it isn't necessary for survival and you cut down the calories, then it's likely going to reduce that unneeded muscle tissue in order to become more efficient.

    Now all that hard earned muscle isn't being stimulated and your body is willing to let it go because you're not showing it's needed with the 20 reps with no rest type lifting (this is, of course, assuming you haven't built your body with 20 reps per set).

  7. subscribed!

    are you going to log your results?

  8. Yeah, going to try to if I have time for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by delsolrob View Post
    subscribed!

    are you going to log your results?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Neil5585 View Post
    I'm gonna be an ******* here. Do both. Along with full body circuits done in rep ranges that you gain muscle.

    The cardio vs. HIIT debate in my opinion is just as lame as "what number of reps is best for gaining muscle?"
    I think a lot of it has to do where u stand with your body fat percentage. The higher body fat percentage the more stress your body can handle. Let's say your sitting at 15%, than yo could benefit greater from HIIT than low intensity cardio. As your body fat gets in the single digits its safer to go with low intensity cardio, since your body is more prone to overtaining.

  10. I think you are mostly right, but its not related to overtraining so much as once your bodyfat gets much lower than 15% your body has a much greater "desire" to hold on to it, as you are below normal levels. So your body is a lot more prone to burn muscle than the remaining fat.

  11. Can body weight training be followed with HIIT in the same workout session, same day (not doing one in the morning and one later in the day)?

    Initially, I was looking to do either HIIT or body weight training on a specific day, but wondering if the can be combined together?

    Monday - Full Body Weight Training

    Tuesday - HIIT Workout
    30 Seconds Brisk Walk, 30 Seconds Sprint, Repeat 9 More Times (10 Minutes Total)

    Wednesday - Full Body Weight Training

    Thursday - HIIT Workout
    30 Seconds Brisk Walk, 30 Seconds Sprint, Repeat 9 More Times (10 Minutes Total)

    Friday
    - Full Body Weight Training

    Saturday and Sunday - Rest (maybe a HIIT session on Saturday)

  12. Quote Originally Posted by fatburner2007 View Post
    Can body weight training be followed with HIIT in the same workout session, same day (not doing one in the morning and one later in the day)?

    Initially, I was looking to do either HIIT or body weight training on a specific day, but wondering if the can be combined together?

    Monday - Full Body Weight Training

    Tuesday - HIIT Workout
    30 Seconds Brisk Walk, 30 Seconds Sprint, Repeat 9 More Times (10 Minutes Total)

    Wednesday - Full Body Weight Training

    Thursday - HIIT Workout
    30 Seconds Brisk Walk, 30 Seconds Sprint, Repeat 9 More Times (10 Minutes Total)

    Friday
    - Full Body Weight Training

    Saturday and Sunday - Rest (maybe a HIIT session on Saturday)

    Thats similar to what I had planned to start 2day. Im am pretty sick so I wont start until wed. Here's what I was going to do

    Monday/Wednesday/Friday: Full Body Routine, 30min Low-Intensity PWO

    Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday:Ab routine followed by 12-15min HIIT Tredmill cardio, walk 1min @ 3.0 then 4%incline @ 9.5speed for 1 min.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  13. How are you doing your Full Body Routine?

    What is PWO?


    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Thats similar to what I had planned to start 2day. Im am pretty sick so I wont start until wed. Here's what I was going to do

    Monday/Wednesday/Friday: Full Body Routine, 30min Low-Intensity PWO

    Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday:Ab routine followed by 12-15min HIIT Tredmill cardio, walk 1min @ 3.0 then 4%incline @ 9.5speed for 1 min.

  14. Post Work Out. HIIT after a workout would be really hard, and not as beneficial I think. 20 minutes on a bike or elliptical at 120s heart rate steady would be ok. all I do on HIIT days is abs first, which is more a warmup

  15. Thank you Easy

    Im not real sure what my routine is going to look like. I better figure it out because it starts 2maro
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  16. OH

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Post Work Out. HIIT after a workout would be really hard, and not as beneficial I think. 20 minutes on a bike or elliptical at 120s heart rate steady would be ok. all I do on HIIT days is abs first, which is more a warmup

  17. Your running man Avi trips me out, but very appropriate
    NSCA - CSCS

  18. Yeah, reminds me of the Bionic Man

    Although since my surgery, it is kind of my new focus of cardio, HIIT, running, etc and less so on weights.


    Quote Originally Posted by VolcomX311 View Post
    Your running man Avi trips me out, but very appropriate

  19. Would it be overkill of doing light intensity cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and then HIIT later in the day around 5pm?

  20. So for about a week now I have been trying HIIT around 5pm and on other days doing cardio with HR intensity around 140-150 on an empty stomach.

    Which is more effective though for fat loss? I know we have already discussed HIIT is most effective, but you wouldn't want to do HIIT on an empty stomach so doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach for about 40 mins at a HR of 140-150 or save it for later in the day to do HIIT around 5pm for about 20 mins?

  21. my feeling is that HIIT raises your metabolism more for longer afterwards, so its better earlier. mostly doing either matters, and patience

  22. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    my feeling is that HIIT raises your metabolism more for longer afterwards, so its better earlier. mostly doing either matters, and patience

    I've heard that doing it in the evening can be good because this is when metabolism and insulin sensitivity generally start to lower, so doing the HIIT would jack both up when they are normally lowering.

    But I agree, just doing it consistently and damn near killing yourself with the workout is what's important for results.

  23. yeah, what you said could be true too. Like the whole "what sort of protein is best when" and "should I eat protein right before bed" I think the difference here is in the <5% in terms of efficiency. so not worth a ton of fuss over.

    Plus too, i'd guess that part of it depends on your overall cardiovascular fitness level anyhow

  24. But doing HIIT on an empty stomach first thing in the morning?

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    my feeling is that HIIT raises your metabolism more for longer afterwards, so its better earlier. mostly doing either matters, and patience

  25. thats the way I do it. just caps and BCAAs. hit the gym around 6:45, do abs, then HIIT for 30 min

  26. A huge piece of the puzzle that is missing so far in this thread is the hormonal response to different types of exercise.

    In addition to the hormonal response you have the upregulation of transcription for the GLUT (glucose transport factors), which HIIT is better at.

    In my experience low intensity cardio has the benefit of not pushing me into overtraining. HIIT should be treated like a weight lifting session to maximize the aforementioned processes above, and at least for me should be at least 8 hours away from a lifting session. Low intensity can be done in conjunction with lifting.

    Do both, but at the right times and for the right reasons.

  27. Yeah...I agree on the overtraining part..think that's what happened to me....did 5 straight days of HIIT in the afternoon and cardio with weights in the evening and i actually lost some 1/8 inch in arm muscle mass..a great deal in just 1 week IMO..

  28. Good point! So far I have been doing a combination of both, not focusing more on one than the other.


    Quote Originally Posted by diminuendo View Post
    A huge piece of the puzzle that is missing so far in this thread is the hormonal response to different types of exercise.

    In addition to the hormonal response you have the upregulation of transcription for the GLUT (glucose transport factors), which HIIT is better at.

    In my experience low intensity cardio has the benefit of not pushing me into overtraining. HIIT should be treated like a weight lifting session to maximize the aforementioned processes above, and at least for me should be at least 8 hours away from a lifting session. Low intensity can be done in conjunction with lifting.

    Do both, but at the right times and for the right reasons.
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