Help with ketogenic diet.

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  1. Help with ketogenic diet.


    Hey guys, hope ur all doing well, i started a thread a couple of days ago about the ketogenic diet but on a different forum since i was asking about different details but i really need some help and if any keto experts would care to chime in i would be extremely grateful.
    My stats
    6'1
    202 lbs
    Not very accurate on body fat especially since ive been dieting from 222 lbs but i would say 14-16% to be safe and just to give u an idea.
    My goal is to get to 10% body fat.
    Now i wanted to start the keto diet as i am seeing it being brought up much more and zyzz back in the day did use this diet(incoming hate), now i know zyzz is hated on most of the time but lets just talk about the ketogenic diet, one important thing u should know is that my body holds a good amount of water, like i cant take creatine or my face will blow up(past experience), so i wanted some experienced users or possibly experts on this matter to tell me what they think about the ketogenic diet and mainly issues like strength loss as i have been experiencing this a bit but mostly endurance loss is my biggest issue while cutting( my deficit has been between 500-750 max during this cut), how well can i train without carbs as i do lift heavy especially on compounds, since im a bodybuilder ive also been told i cant follow the traditional 75% fat as protein would be too low and i am looking to increase my deficit to around 1000 below maintenance later on(forget muscle loss as i will lets just say be using a bit of aid later on) so that being said how will i fix my protein and fat ratio?

    Thanks in advance to all. If needed i can link the diet i have been told by a fellow coach to do which is around 50% protein 45% carbs 5% fat.


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  3. Me too
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative
    Use Code COLEMAN30 to save 30% on ALL HiTech Pharma Co.:
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  4. There is a difference between a keto diet and a high fat, low carb diet(hflc). Keto is around 75% fat, 25% protein and 5% carbs. Keto WILL make you drop water, when I start going into ketosis I have to piss constantly. Endurance is only an issue, initially, once your fat adapted(~2-3wks) you'll have energy to spare, or you should at least. Keto is also muscle sparing, so you don't have to worry too much about losing mass as long as your calories are there. Now calories is the hard part. Since you will be eating more fat, you will stay full longer, but since you will be cutting anyways, its a non-issue. Imho, people that lose a bunch of strength on keto must be doing something different then me, I trained keto and IF right into my last powerlifting meet and didn't notice any strength loss. But again, all anecdotal. That's my 2

  5. Yeah don't bother with the medical/therapeutic ketosis diet of 75%fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs unless you are a an epileptic child or 300lb female. I have been keto since the 1990s and my %'s look more like 47.5% protein, 47.5% fat, 5% carbs (with regards to calories of each macro).

    Also it is not the carbs you are lacking for your workouts, it is the electrolytes. Have a warm cup of boullion with around 2,000mg sodium pre-workout and watch the magic. The general consensus is a keto dieter will need around 7,000mg/day of sodium. I combine keto + IF and train fasted in the AM and do not eat for many hours after, I have zero issues in the gym as long as my electrolytes are in check. I use boullion from time to time as well as an all-in-one electrolyte product, I pop a few caps here and there.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by DieselNY View Post
    Yeah don't bother with the medical/therapeutic ketosis diet of 75%fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs unless you are a an epileptic child or 300lb female. I have been keto since the 1990s and my %'s look more like 47.5% protein, 47.5% fat, 5% carbs (with regards to calories of each macro).

    Also it is not the carbs you are lacking for your workouts, it is the electrolytes. Have a warm cup of boullion with around 2,000mg sodium pre-workout and watch the magic. The general consensus is a keto dieter will need around 7,000mg/day of sodium. I combine keto + IF and train fasted in the AM and do not eat for many hours after, I have zero issues in the gym as long as my electrolytes are in check. I use boullion from time to time as well as an all-in-one electrolyte product, I pop a few caps here and there.
    I'm doing keto with IF..just started about a month ago...will have to try the bouillon thing
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative
    Use Code COLEMAN30 to save 30% on ALL HiTech Pharma Co.:
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by DieselNY View Post
    Yeah don't bother with the medical/therapeutic ketosis diet of 75%fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs unless you are a an epileptic child or 300lb female. I have been keto since the 1990s and my %'s look more like 47.5% protein, 47.5% fat, 5% carbs (with regards to calories of each macro).

    Also it is not the carbs you are lacking for your workouts, it is the electrolytes. Have a warm cup of boullion with around 2,000mg sodium pre-workout and watch the magic. The general consensus is a keto dieter will need around 7,000mg/day of sodium. I combine keto + IF and train fasted in the AM and do not eat for many hours after, I have zero issues in the gym as long as my electrolytes are in check. I use boullion from time to time as well as an all-in-one electrolyte product, I pop a few caps here and there.
    Thank you for such a helpful answer man, and about the sodium wouldnt this be bad for water weight and water retention?
    I will use sodium pre workout and i am a strong believer in its benefits pre workout but what about the rest of the day with high sodium is what i meant with my question above.
    And if u dont mind critiquing my diet
    Meal 1
    1 tbsp coconut oil
    125 grams of bacon strips(beef bacon)
    Possibly water with salt as the bouillon cant fit my macros for now.

    Meal 2
    Post workout 35g iso whey shake.
    1 cup of broccoli

    Meal 3
    6 oz chicken breast
    1 oz almonds

    Meal 4
    5 oz salmon
    1 tbsp olive oil

    Meal 5
    1 cup of cottage cheese
    1.5 tbsp peanut butter

    Total macros are:
    161g protien
    107g fat
    28g carbs
    thats 56% fat 37% protein and 7% carbs.
    1732 calories total.

  8. Keto is a very diuretic diet, you won't retain water like you normally do with a Standard American diet. You will need to replenish especially working out. 5-7g a day
    Current Workout Log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/296714-mr-supps-keto.html

  9. Quote Originally Posted by JoeStethics View Post
    Thank you for such a helpful answer man, and about the sodium wouldnt this be bad for water weight and water retention?
    I will use sodium pre workout and i am a strong believer in its benefits pre workout but what about the rest of the day with high sodium is what i meant with my question above.
    And if u dont mind critiquing my diet
    Meal 1
    1 tbsp coconut oil
    125 grams of bacon strips(beef bacon)
    Possibly water with salt as the bouillon cant fit my macros for now.

    Meal 2
    Post workout 35g iso whey shake.
    1 cup of broccoli

    Meal 3
    6 oz chicken breast
    1 oz almonds

    Meal 4
    5 oz salmon
    1 tbsp olive oil

    Meal 5
    1 cup of cottage cheese
    1.5 tbsp peanut butter

    Total macros are:
    161g protien
    107g fat
    28g carbs
    thats 56% fat 37% protein and 7% carbs.
    1732 calories total.
    Looks good.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Wimsicle View Post
    Keto is a very diuretic diet, you won't retain water like you normally do with a Standard American diet. You will need to replenish especially working out. 5-7g a day
    What he said ^

  11. Don t forget to cut sodium in the weekend

  12. Higher sodium is needed. I've even used keto salts preworkout to aid in increasing the energy levels I have. I've used both ketoinduce and muscle research keto salts and both worked great. I have issues with sodium and edema and these did not effects it where normal sodium intake can.
    Mind and Muscle Code AM10 WWW.mindandmuscle.com
    Muscle Research Code AM10 www.mrsupps.com

  13. Quote Originally Posted by cheftepesh1 View Post
    Higher sodium is needed. I've even used keto salts preworkout to aid in increasing the energy levels I have. I've used both ketoinduce and muscle research keto salts and both worked great. I have issues with sodium and edema and these did not effects it where normal sodium intake can.
    That's my next step is getting ketosalts preworkout
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative
    Use Code COLEMAN30 to save 30% on ALL HiTech Pharma Co.:
    APS Nutrition, ALR Industries, Formutech, LG Sciences, IForce Nutrition

  14. Quote Originally Posted by cobri66 View Post
    That's my next step is getting ketosalts preworkout
    In the mean time try protein, mct, and 2g salt
    Current Workout Log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/296714-mr-supps-keto.html

  15. Quote Originally Posted by cobri66 View Post
    That's my next step is getting ketosalts preworkout
    It's really not needed especially if you are already in ketosis.
  16. Help with ketogenic diet.


    Quote Originally Posted by DieselNY View Post
    It's really not needed especially if you are already in ketosis.
    I think you're misunderstanding what the salts are for... energy, mental clarity and reduced fatigue.
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  17. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    I think you're misunderstanding what the salts are for... energy.
    Oh trust me I know.

    Companies send me to sample all the time (even 1 company has esters which were interesting)

    You won't need more bhb once you are fully keto. You just need sodium.

  18. Do any of you guys monitor your blood ketones or blood sugar?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by GreenMachineX View Post
    Do any of you guys monitor your blood ketones or blood sugar?
    Only if I am bored or coming off a big carb up like I did on Tuesday. I had a lot of carbs and then showed good ketone readings by the morning. I am so adapted that I can eat 600gms of carbs on a carb day and be back showing adequate blood ketones late night or when I wake up the next morning. Most people need 2-3 days post carb up for that.

    I don't care about BG readings but it reads that too. Reason I do not care is the longer you go keto/long carb the more you adapt and then develop physiological insulin resistance which shows high BG reading but its totally fine/normal.

  20. @DieselNY dude i think i went into ketosis either yesterday or today, when i woke up today my waist was tight as ****, my friends thought i was starving myself.
    Cant wait to see what 8-10 more weeks of this has to offer, and yeh the sodium thing works like magic pre workout.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by DieselNY View Post
    Only if I am bored or coming off a big carb up like I did on Tuesday. I had a lot of carbs and then showed good ketone readings by the morning. I am so adapted that I can eat 600gms of carbs on a carb day and be back showing adequate blood ketones late night or when I wake up the next morning. Most people need 2-3 days post carb up for that.

    I don't care about BG readings but it reads that too. Reason I do not care is the longer you go keto/long carb the more you adapt and then develop physiological insulin resistance which shows high BG reading but its totally fine/normal.
    Regarding blood glucose, mine is around ~120 or so every morning and I've been keto about 6 or 7 weeks. Later in the day it might be 85 before dinner or something. My blood ketones read at least 1.0 mmol though (highest was 1.9). Would you say this is normal or fine? I eat 60-90 grams of protein a day, but I'm also not working out at the moment.

  22. Protein is way too low and those high ketone readings are not needed (1.9 etc). Your BG readings look right for someone who has been low carbing for a while. Look up Dawn Phenomenon, and Physiological Insulin Resistance. I have gone up to 500gms a day of protein (normal day is 200-250gms) and NEVER had an issue with ketosis...that is a butter chugger keto zealot myth about too much protein and gng ...if that is indeed the reason for your low protein intake.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by DieselNY View Post
    Protein is way too low and those high ketone readings are not needed (1.9 etc). Your BG readings look right for someone who has been low carbing for a while. Look up Dawn Phenomenon, and Physiological Insulin Resistance. I have gone up to 500gms a day of protein (normal day is 200-250gms) and NEVER had an issue with ketosis...that is a butter chugger keto zealot myth about too much protein and gng ...if that is indeed the reason for your low protein intake.
    Yeah, that's the reason for the low protein intake. So you don't think gng is for real?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by GreenMachineX View Post
    Yeah, that's the reason for the low protein intake. So you don't think gng is for real?
    it is very real and happens all the time but its a demand driven process not supply driven and you can't change that fact by eating lots of protein.

  25. Yep, regardless of how much protein you consume, it does not 'speed up gng'. It happens at the same rate regardless of protein consumption. When my lbm was 155, I was consuming 185g protein and never fell out of ketosis.
    Current Workout Log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/296714-mr-supps-keto.html
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