slowly cutting to 215
- 04-20-2005, 01:49 AM
slowly cutting to 215
I am currently at 250 pounds at about 20 percent I would say, maybe less on a 6'4 frame. I started my cut on April 18, so it is my second day. I am keeping my calories in the 3,500-3,800 range depending if it is a weight and cardio day or just a cardio day. I eat all natural food sources, and change up meals daily so there isn't any manotany(sp?). I get over 300 grams of protein a day. The meal that never changes is my postworkout shake which is two scoops whey and 30 oz. fat free milk. My goal is just to get rid of gut because have a pretty big upper body and naturally big legs( genetics). The thing is, should I not work out my legs because, they grow even when I don't work them out. I can just do cardio and they will be 30 inches easy. I am at 27 1/2 inches currently because of symmetry reasons. It is also becoming hard to walk normally because of their size. My dad was a soccer player and gave me his good genes as far as muscular legs. Should I focus on just upper body for my cut? Because I have never had problems addign size to my legs or even losing size for that matter. As far as weight training goes, I do chest/back on monday, shoulders/tris/bis on wednesday, and was going to do legs and abs on friday, but if it is OK to skip it then I will do chest/back again and rotate those two for M/W/F. I love legs, but I find I don't really need to do serious lifting for them to grow.
- 04-20-2005, 10:28 AM
Lucky you on the legs as mine laugh when I try to make them grow. Good luck on the cut though; keep us posted.
- 04-20-2005, 03:25 PM
Yeah it sorta sucks in a way because I love working my legs, but I can't if I want good symmetry. I think I will do upper body only and measure my legs weekly to make sure they are maintaining, but I have a feeling they will grow. LOL! Damnit!
04-20-2005, 03:31 PM
I'm with you on the elgs.
Same deal with me. I do all high rep training for them now days. 20-30rep ranges.
04-20-2005, 04:02 PM
dont you feel that at 6'4, 250 is a good size? I have a friend who is your height and ripped at 215 but he looks kinda lanky. I personally wouldnt drop under 235
04-20-2005, 04:55 PM
Yeah it is a good size but I want to get ripped as f*ck! I want to get to the point where I can really notice gains without measuring or without people telling me I am big. I know I am big now, and I have the genes to be really big, but I want to be in the single digits for BF%. I also will wait to do a good cycle til after a good cut. Being very muscular is not a problem for me, but being really lean( ie single digits BF%) is though.
04-20-2005, 06:36 PM
Eh, just stick with it man, slow and steady and all that. Don't worry too much about getting into single digits, you'll suffer more to go from 11%->7% than you will to go from 20%-11%. If you're eating properly and cleanly and you're not getting much leaner but you're losing size and strength just bulk up slowly for a while then come back to it later.
04-20-2005, 11:49 PM
Well, I am getting stronger every day because of the supplements I have been taking which is 17 alpha oxo onolone, creatine mono., milk thistle, zma, and novadex xt. My calories are going to stay the same for about a month as I boost the cardio weekly. I do my weights and 30 minutes cardio( 10 for warmup, 20 for cooldown) M/W/F. On my off days I will be playing basketball, about 3-4 fullcourt games which is a pretty good workout. I am eating I would have to guesstimate 3,600 calories daily and about 360 grams of protein roughly.
04-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Well, 4th day down 146 more to go!YAY! I made a slight change to get the far going a little smoother. I am not eating whole eggs just egg whites. So my first meal is now 10 egg whites and one cup ff cottage cheese or LF cottage cheese. Seems to be going well thus far. I think the fatigue won't hit me too hard because of the supplements. I will also be putting carbs under 300 grams. Then after 30 days down under 250. Taking off 50 grams every 30 days until I am down to 150 grams. Then I will stay, maybe add more healthy fats like omega's.
04-23-2005, 05:49 PM
6th day now, lost some water weight because I stopped taking creatine for 2 weeks to see where I am at. Gonna really focus on nutrition and being in the gym less to preserve muscle. I haven't eaten well the past week for some reason, should be better this week and beyong with less time in the gym. It really seems that I have a easier time eating clean when I am not in the gym as much as when I am bulking. Maybe psychological thing,
04-23-2005, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
Maybe if you do some slow jogging on the treadmill you will find walking a little easier. My legs are 26.5' and I am shorter than you. I do triathlons so obviously walking isn't a problem. Then again maybe I am measuring my legs in a different location than you are.
04-23-2005, 10:07 PM
Boy felt like **** today. I didn't take creatine before my workout, bad idea! I felt like I had the lethargy from M1T. I will be doing one area a day for a 4 on, 1 off split. I will also start doing legs to release some test. I am taking my creatine as we speak(10 grams) post w/o. I will be taing 5 grams before and 5 after now on. I might start doing some cardio in the moring rather than after my workout to minimize muscle loss. I will keep my calories at around 3,800 currently, which will make me maintain. Hopefully though with the added 30 minutes a day of light cardio( walking) I will drop fat at a slower pace, and more successfully. I am also going to start up with the ZMA at night. I need all the rest I can get.
04-23-2005, 10:45 PM
For me I would be DEAD if I worked out 4 days in a row. Heck even 3 and I would feel like crap.
Perhaps the M1T is causing some of it.
04-24-2005, 12:19 AM
I think you might have misunderstood me. I felt like I was on M1T, because had odd lethargy. Yeah I am second guessing the 4 days on routine. What would be a good suggestion for a split to maintain as much muscle as possible? Also, is 30 minutes ok for the first week as far as daily cardio. I was thinking of maybe a 2 on 1 off spit, where my off day is completely off. Also, for the calories, If I eat maintainece calories( 3,600) or so but add the cardio and add 5 minutes everyweek, do you think the cut will be more successful. Seeing that I am 250 with about 20% bodyfat, meaning I have roughly 200 pounds LBM, is 300 grams of protein good for keeping as much of the LBM as possible? And as far as a cutting supplement, at what point should I start using one. A amateur at my gym, told me to see where I am at everyweek, and slowly alter things to keep the fat burning process going. He also said to not take any thermos until I get diet squared away, and know it is the diet that is working. Otherwise, it could be that my diet is OK, but it is the thermo that is doing the work. Any thoughts?
04-24-2005, 12:18 PM
WOW lots of questions But that is good. I will give you MY OPINON. And that is all it is. So be sure to listen what other guys say.
Personally I like to keep my protein levels high but if you have approx 200lbs of lean body mass and are trying to cut 350g may be a bit high and actually hurt your goal of cutting. The idea is that it will be converted to sugar and be counter productive so maybe lower it a LITTLE>
I would say you could try working out with weights every other day and do cardio 5 to 6 days a week.
As far as if 30 minutes for cardio is ok for the first week that depends what you are doing now. If you are doing none you may want to start with just 15 minutes and see how it goes.
As far as calories I would suggest you go low carbs for 2 or 3 days then back to normal level of carbs. This of course would also lower your calories on the low carb days.
Cutting supplement I would wait til someone else posts a reply with suggestions.
I agree with the guy in the gym. Alter things slowly. It really can be a pain in the ass but will be worth it in the end so best of luck.
04-24-2005, 01:55 PM
Bigphill1984...It looks like your about where I was at about two years ago when I got a bit more serious about lifting, you % is a touch higher and a few pounds heavier, but pretty close. I took a different approach because I wanted to shake some fat and drop the gut so I did followed more of a keto diet for the first few months to drop down a bit quicker.
My theory was to drop some of the fat which in turn would make my cardio efforts easier beacause I was not hauling around a nonperforming gut. If you go this route you really don't have to worry about adding leg size as adding much of any size on a good cut down is difficult.
Once I was at a lower body fat % I put my focus on building muscle mass and keeping my fat % within reason, although once you build more mass the fat does burn off a bit easier.
I am at the end of shaking my winter bulk gut and run about 3200 cals per day with around 400g protien. I go with a don't mix fat and carbs type diet, do cardio 5-6 days per week at about 30 minutes a pop and lift 4 days a week folling a DC workout style.
I'm not saying your method would be any less effective, just giving you another view point from someone else around your size...although I do have you by about a decade and a half age wise so you may have an easier go of it.
04-24-2005, 04:14 PM
I do drop weight pretty fast, but last time, all I did was play basketball for like 2 hours a day at our college gym. I didn't eat healthy by any means( didn't know anything abot diet) and I got down to 225 pounds. The only thing was I lost a good amount of muscle through the cardio of basketball. This time around I think it will go a little smoother because of better education of bodybuilding and advice from you guys. I tried keto before and I almost went rabid because of the lack or energy. I would do it but I am a student and I live at home, so I eat healthy,but I eat what my mom buys( she is really cool about the whole bodybuilding diet). Keto makes me feel horrible for some reason also, so I feel it might hurt my workout quality, which is my favorite time of day. Is it OK to have different meals sometimes. I know a lot of you guys eat the same thing everyday, however, for me, I go crazy if I can't have something different every day. 3 of my meals are pretty much set in stone, but sometimes for dinner I have something different. Thanks guys, Phill
04-26-2005, 12:01 AM
It seems like I am maintaining more than anything. My diet is at 4,000 calories so that may explain it. It will probably be a slower cut than expected, until summer in one month. Eating about 370 grams of protein a day. My training is good, really good actually, around 2 hours to 2 and half. I just love getting huge that I have a problem putting down the protein. I am getting leaner though. Not alot but little by little. Do you guys think I should just maintain at 250, because it sounds much better. I can care less about the fat, because now that my diet is better, it will slowly melt away with my 30 minutes of extra cardio daily. OH, I am back on the Arnold split. If those of you who know what it is, it is awesome for those with good genes.
04-26-2005, 07:17 AM
Switch to CEE or Kre-alkalyn. Both these types of creatine will NOT give you bloat.
I agree with exnihilo - below 11% is a whole different game. Set your goal for 12%, maintain for a while, then plan you attack for getting into single digits. Research on the forums will show you what you should and should NOT do when pursuing single digit bodyfat.
04-26-2005, 02:36 PM
Alright cool, because I am a realatively newbie to the whole bodybuilding aspect with training+nutrition+supplements . I am doing good so far and really don't want to go that low as far as weight because I am going to be bouncing soon.
05-01-2005, 08:57 PM
Alrihgt, I haven't measured my waist for like 4 months and I was shocked today that I have a 39 inch waist. So now i am going on a moderate keto diet. It will be low carb, but I will incorporate some fruits and nuts to help with digestion. I lost a ton of weight before on this type of diet. It will be under 3,000 calories and 200 + grams of protein( LBM). I just think with my bodytype it isn't a good idea to "slow bulk" my way to a place where it will take forever to cut from. I will update weekly. I should drop about 1/4 to 1/2 inch a week on my waist.
05-01-2005, 09:18 PM
Don't get too caught up in yo-yo'ing bro. That is the path to the darkside
If you feel fat and out of shape just keep your weight loss to about 1.5-2lbs a week, drop cals slowly, and work hard in the gym to get stronger. You're overweight, if your diet is clean you should be able to lose some fat and put on strength, at least till you get down near 14%. Do NOT try to cut fast, that is just going backwards, you will lose some fat at first then you will just hemmorage muscle and end up skinny fat.
05-01-2005, 09:49 PM
I will try not to lose too fast, probably 2 pounds a week. However, since this is the first week alot of weight will come off because I am stopping creatine and I will lose a lot of water weight. I don't want to end up skinny fat like you said so I am not going to bust my ass in the gym like some idiots do. I will be under my maintenance by about 200-500 calories. Then with about 1 hour exercise a day which is usually 500 calories, my loss should come out to 2 pounds a week. I will gauge my progress through measuring rather than weighing myself, other than the weekly weigh in. Yeah, I was yo-yo ing for about 7 days but I came to my senses and my education( kinesiology major). I just hope to get into shape first( 10-13 percent BF) then worry about muscle mass and what not.
05-04-2005, 06:28 PM
Well, Day 4 now and measured in at 38 1/4 inches. Eating lots of fruits and veggies. Hopefully down to 38 even by day 7. I think I will drop carbs down some more, to under 150 total starting tomorrow. I haven't been getting enough protein so I will drop carbs to fit in more protein. Felt like **** today so I bumped calories up to 3,500. Back to 3,000 tomorrow though. I have a small question, should I add 1/2 cup oatmeal to pwo shake? Also, is 600 calories each meal for 5 meals OK. That seems the only way for me to stay full. If I go any lower per meal I am still hungry.
05-06-2005, 12:50 AM
My cutting diet:
Meal 1: 10 egg whites, 3 yolks, 2 organic tortillas, ketchup
Meal 2: deli meat, 1 slice ezekiel bread, 20 oz. ff milk, 1/2 cup ff cottage cheese
Meal 3: post workout shake
Meal 4: meat and salad
Meal 5: same as meal 2
All of this is under 3000 calories and over 250 grams of protein. Any suggestions as this is my first thought out cut. Rememeber I am a beginner and my goal is to get down to a 33 inch waist first( probably 12% bf) from a 38 1/4 as of yesterday. Also, how long should I do weights for startign next week( this week is off for rest purposes) as well as a cardio for a beginner. Should I worry about heart rate or should I just go for a walk for about 30 minutes like I started doing this week?
05-06-2005, 03:13 PM
meal 1: lay off the ketchup-it's just sugar paste-and try some hot sauce; try eating a cup of oatmeal rather that tortillas (which i imagine are white flour)Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
meal 2: try some lean ground turkey instead of deli meat (i bought a pound at walmart for 3.50)
meal 3: whey and oats right?
meal 4: i would have a lean protein and a good amount of carbs
meal 5: see meal 2
meal 6: for another meal, try a cup of cottage cheese and some nuts (i think half walnuts/half almonds would be great)
05-06-2005, 11:09 PM
Too much fat in ground turkey. The tortillas are organic whole wheat. Maybe I will get some tobasco?
05-07-2005, 12:02 AM
too much fat in ground turkey? isn't it like 98% fat free or something?Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
05-07-2005, 12:05 AM
ya the stuff i got has 2g of fat per 4oz serving and 26g of protein.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
just make sure it's 98% and above and you should be fine
05-07-2005, 12:06 AM
Reminds me of the diet of this guy I know, who's just trying to get the cheapest food possible that takes the least amount of time to prepare. He hasn't been happy with his results but he's not willing to listen to me...
You need a lot more high quality veggies in there (I'm talking about a pound a day of various different greens, at least). Your protein sources are a mixed bag - there are a lot of additives, preservatives and other weird crap in deli meat, and most of them are high in fat as well (2 grams of fat per 9 grams of protein doesn't seem like much but that equals 33% fat calories). The cottage cheese is good, have some before bed too. And the tortillas are probably still not that great (though tortilla factory makes a low carb tortilla that I would consider calling foodworthy). Try beans or lentils to add fiber and protein to your diet, as well as lots of nutrients. For your meat, try either chicken breasts, top round with ALL the fat trimmed off (kind of a pain) or some sort of fish. Fish or chicken breast would be best...
I'm eating about 4k cals right now, losing weight nice and slow while gaining strength and I'm getting ~150+g/fiber a day and about 360g/protein a day. I think the mass quantities of veggies are KEY.
Edit: You probably want to increase the amount of protein you get from mixed sources, I imagine you're getting quite a bit from your PWO shake. Spread it around man.
05-07-2005, 12:32 AM
ex, what kinda vegetables are you relying on? i despise all vegetables with a passion.Originally Posted by exnihilo
05-07-2005, 12:35 AM
I mix about 6 cups of broccoli florets, a cup of chopped boiled spinach and a cup of chopped bell peppers in with my pasta, and the same thing again with my lentil stew. Just add garlic bro, makes it all taste good.
05-07-2005, 12:40 AM
mmm pasta. can't partake in that endeavour yet. i'll stick with the beans for now, they seem to be doing the trick. if i remember correctly, you informed me of the benefits of beans as well. what would i do without ex?Originally Posted by exnihilo
05-08-2005, 02:09 PM
Well you hit it on the head as far as cheap things. I am a little stuck because I am a college student living at home with parents who really don't make a whole lot of money to be buying **** loads of chicken breasts and greens. I try to use foods that we have that are healthy but not nearly as perfect as your diets. You have to remember that not all of us have the resources that you guys have. But as far as my cut so far, after one week I have stayed at 38 1/4 because I didn't do any exercise last week as my body got use to 3,000 calories. I am now doing weights every other day for 45 minutes and 30 minutes cardio after. On the other days I do 30 minutes cardio. I will look for the ground turkey that is 98% or higher, but it is probably expensive where I live.
05-08-2005, 02:53 PM
I get the trader joes "low carb" pasta, mostly because it's got like 17g of protein per serving and it's very low gi. It's certainly on the level of beans as far as health goes. It's a touch expensive though, but it adds variety and flavor.Originally Posted by Beelzebub
And without me you'd probably have less fun Someone's gotta keep you on your toes
05-08-2005, 03:26 PM
Lentils cost ~5 bucks for 10lbs, if not less (I pay 3.49 but that's at a bulk food store). Canned spinach is like 50c/can for store brands. Frozen broccoli is like $1/bag, and you can get 2 days worth of greens out of a bag (though I use about a bag a day). Milk is good, you can definately drink more milk, I get 2 gallons for 3.49. Canned tuna I've seen as low as like 50c/can, and I get my cottage cheese for $2.49/quart. I get very low fat turkey chili for $1.39/can, it has 44g pro per can as well as about 40g carbs and it tastes great. You can eat cheaply and still do better man, I'm telling you...Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
05-08-2005, 07:01 PM
Wow! You have some good prices, where do you shop? I live in the Bay Area in Cali where food is a little expensive. I think I will start eating some of that turkey chili if I can find some. Also, if I can find the greens that low I will see if I can get some. Is trader joes a good place to get that stuff? I get all my breads there as well as natty pb and nuts. I also think I will start eating some fresh meat on ezekiel bread after my lunch meat runs out or in combo. I mostly get it because it is quick and fairly healthy. I also know how many calories are in it. But then again I am fairly new to the whole bodybuilding concept besides lifting. I am sure with you guys I will see better progress eat week. Also, should I count veggies as calories, because I heard you burn more digesting it than the cals that are in it?
05-08-2005, 07:04 PM
is there any costco's or sam choice's up there? a few of em down in socal.Originally Posted by BIGPHILL1984
05-08-2005, 10:22 PM
I shop pretty much entirely at trader joes and smart and final. Smart and final for the HUGE bulk bags, trader joes for the regular day to day stuff.
05-08-2005, 11:16 PM
Smart and Final huh, I should check it out. I am not a fan of costco, their prices aren't too different from savemart. The greens and stuff, did you get those at trader joes? They do have good prices most of the time.
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