Carbs carbs carbs carbs and less carbs or more carbs.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post

    This freaks me out. You're telling me any time I cut i'm losing most of my gains?
    Most/some depends on your perspective and how you measure (pants size, lbs on the scale, journaling of strength sets/reps/weight, etc)
    This is also why the whole idea of bulk/cut is mullarkey (at least 'dirty' bulk. The classic book, "Ripped," by Clarence Bass addresses that topic with extensive lab results.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post

    Most/some depends on your perspective and how you measure (pants size, lbs on the scale, journaling of strength sets/reps/weight, etc)
    This is also why the whole idea of bulk/cut is mullarkey (at least 'dirty' bulk. The classic book, "Ripped," by Clarence Bass addresses that topic with extensive lab results.
    Uhh I go by scale and mirror, mostly mirror. I've been training for about 8yrs bodybuilding for 5 of those. I know my body and can tell differences in mirror pretty well.

    I agree that as a natural athlete, bulking and cutting aren't necessarily the best option, but being that I have the metabolism of a humming bird, I have to eat ridiculous amounts of calories to gain.. Sometimes the only way to get them all in is to throw a cheat in there
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post

    This freaks me out. You're telling me any time I cut i'm losing most of my gains?
    Also depends on the methodology of your cut

  4. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post

    Also depends on the methodology of your cut
    I tend to do carb /calorie cycling

    three high days one medium three low days

  5. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    No, we addressed thermodynamics. Food takes energy to break down and that process also creates body heat. 100 calories of fat only yields the body 97 calories. 100 calories of carbs only yields the body 93 calories and 100 calories of protein only yields the body 70 calories.
    Source: The Carb Nite Solution. Kiefer, J. 2005. Pg 43
    Yes, that is metabolic variance and the use of the individual macronutrients and the roles they have in the body; but thermodynamics is what I was referring to. Whilst the simple equation is far from accruate and doesn't differentiate between open and closed systems, in its most simple form it does not allow for metabolic variance bteween macro nutrients. But again, energy is neither created nor destroted, only transformed and that energy has to go somewhere which is exactly what I said.
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  6. Oh how I love a good carb discussion thread

    I haven't read all the post yet. Will post later
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    Oh, and about Thermodynamics. Yes, a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie metaboliccaly speaking however...

    Laws of Thermodynamics and the Human Body
    My understanding is that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to the human body (open system vs closed system) I have a thread on CS on this very topic
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Oh how I love a good carb discussion thread

    I haven't read all the post yet. Will post later
    No need, I'm right. Like always
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Keto diets are not very expensive.

    1lb 80/20 ground beef: $3.50
    1 dozen eggs: $1.75
    4TBS Olive Oil: ~$0.50
    2 scoops Protein: ~$1.00
    Total: $6.75

    Rough Macros (p/f/c) 200/200/<30 & about 2,600 cals total

    That's a day of food for someone your size goals. Cheaper if you can buy in bulk. Chicken is usually cheaper than beef so cut cost there and add more olive oil. Canned tuna is another option also.
    Oh you make it seem so simple. Kinda makes me want to utalize keto for my summer prep work.

    Question, is the above a typical day for you or just an example?

    One of my problems with keto is it becomes monotonous fairly quickly and I end up slipping up and when following keto I develop this mindset of, well I already had a little bit of carbs on the chicken so I might as well make today a refeed day and then I hate myself
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    and then I hate myself
    There's medicine for that...lol

  11. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    Oh you make it seem so simple. Kinda makes me want to utalize keto for my summer prep work.

    Question, is the above a typical day for you or just an example?

    One of my problems with keto is it becomes monotonous fairly quickly and I end up slipping up and when following keto I develop this mindset of, well I already had a little bit of carbs on the chicken so I might as well make today a refeed day and then I hate myself
    Well it is simple, practical is another story, as you pointed out ;-)

    Yeah, that's rather typical. Occasionally I'll get crazy and make some keto pancakes with protein sludge when I'm really craving something and its not a refeed. Carbs for this are still under 15 for everything and it usually hits the spot.

    Also adding some cheese & saricha (sp?) to meals is like a treat sometimes.

    The first 2 weeks are always the hardest. I'm going to try and utilize some 5-HTP to help with evening carb cravings. Science behind looks ok and a lot of old school cats swear by it, it's inexpensive so I figure why not?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  12. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    My understanding is that the laws of thermodynamics do not apply to the human body (open system vs closed system) I have a thread on CS on this very topic
    I read the threads, that article was posted by someone else on one of the topics. I think someone argued pretty well that the law does apply but isn't as simplistic as energy in= energy out= weight maintainence.

    Phys and ras reached common ground that the caloric balance hypothesis was flawed but the law of thermodynamics still applys to open and closed systems, at least for the most part. I found that discussion rather interesting

  13. What do you think of this study JJ?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046

    it has a relatively small sample size group but still intersting results. I'm not sure if I agree with their conclusion that the use of keto diets for weight loss is not warranted; but still interesting for low carb non keto and keto.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post

    The first 2 weeks are always the hardest. I'm going to try and utilize some 5-HTP to help with evening carb cravings. Science behind looks ok and a lot of old school cats swear by it, it's inexpensive so I figure why not?
    What?!?! This is something I struggle with (carb craving) so how do I not know about this connection. Got any links to some reading on this?
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    What do you think of this study JJ?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16685046

    it has a relatively small sample size group but still intersting results. I'm not sure if I agree with their conclusion that the use of keto diets for weight loss is not warranted; but still interesting for low carb non keto and keto.
    I will see if I can pull up the full text and give you my thoughts but generally I would say that ALL diets utilizing a caloric deficit and maintaining optimal protein and fat intake will give roughly the same results and to declare one superior will be based off individual preference such as for same it is easier to just cut a macro then to worry about balancing all 3 intake (which is one of the reasons I usually recommend a keto approach first) or similar to how some might prefer IF over 8 meals a day or vice versa.

    What one finds easier to stick with is going to be what's best as long as pro and fat intakes in range
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  16. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    What?!?! This is something I struggle with (carb craving) so how do I not know about this connection. Got any links to some reading on this?
    Yeah, I'll get some up. Most of them on being an anti-depressant, anxiety & better sleep.

    When I'm relaxed and feeling good, food is furthest from my mind.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  17. i personallygonna say 2000-2100 calories at 210lbs and lifting hard is th reason u feel tired and lethargic..........sorry if this advice is late lol

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Eddinho08 View Post
    As the title says this is about carbsssss!!. So a quick question, can low carbing for too long affect fat loss?. I've been carb cycling for over 8 months, and usually stay at about 150g per day and refeeds were 300-400g. (keep in mind this is the average amount, I did vary and have 0 carbs at times).
    Reason?.. Because I was trying to lean out, but situations arose where it set me back on my diet.
    (broke college student for example).
    At the moment, I switched to keto at 2000-2100cal
    Carb/protein/fat- 25g/175g/133g- 26g/183g/140g
    I'm at 201lbs and I'm 5'9"
    let me ask you this question..why did you get fat in the first place, what were you eating?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Oh how I love a good carb discussion thread

    I haven't read all the post yet. Will post later
    Off topic but slightly not

    http://www.pbrc.edu/research-and-fac...ulators/sswcp/

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Interesting. Wonder what research they are basing this model off of. Not sure if it will be any better than the typical +/-3500kcal/wk model we currently use because although that model has its flaws it still gives us a pretty good idea of where calories should roughly be for gaining or loosing weight
    PESCIENCE.COM

    "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance." - Socrates

  21. Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post

    let me ask you this question..why did you get fat in the first place, what were you eating?
    Whoever said I was fat?. Lol. Last I measured at 201 I was at 10% bf

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Eddinho08 View Post
    Whoever said I was fat?. Lol. Last I measured at 201 I was at 10% bf
    ok lol, leaning out is a loose term what's your goal 5%, 9% or something in between because as you get leaner it gets much harder to get there...

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Interesting. Wonder what research they are basing this model off of. Not sure if it will be any better than the typical +/-3500kcal/wk model we currently use because although that model has its flaws it still gives us a pretty good idea of where calories should roughly be for gaining or loosing weight
    Yeah, I thought i'd give it a run for a bit alongside my own +/-3500kcal method and "see" which one is the most accurate.

  24. Honestly though, screw keto, screw low carbing... Carb cycling is where it's at, brothers

  25. Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    Honestly though, screw keto, screw low carbing... Carb cycling is where it's at, brothers
    Define carb cycling
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
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